A Plea To The Developers: Please Slow The Development Process

[Padreic]

I get it: boredom costs money. New content keeps the berks paying, and there's little obvious reward in the bug-fixing cycle. It also feels much more rewarding to put something new and shiny on the table rather than to spend two weeks ironing out edge-cases, rebalancing, and chasing down a misplaced decimal point. What's more, whole departments can't even get in on the bug-stomping fun, so the art and story folks are twiddling their thumbs and toes while it's going on. And lastly, it just isn't fun combing through code you've been staring at for weeks trying to figure out why one particular texture keeps crashing Warframe for the one dude playing on OS/2, because goodness knows you can't replicate it.

See? I get it. I do. But you've been pushing out content so fast and furious that more and more bugs are getting left behind in the scurry, and it's really starting to show. I'm seeing more people crashing, more complaints about balance, and when major new content comes out, it is often extremely buggy. From a player's perspective, it seems like there's little or no playtesting, and pervasive and long-standing annoyances in the game go on unchanged through several major revisions. We, as Warframe players, deal with a LOT more bugs in our daily play than players of most games, F2P or otherwise, and they aren't just minor visual glitches either. For a game like Warframe grouping is essential, but we see people having to set up VPNs just to be able to get around mysterious "failed to join session" issues, let alone the "session unavailable" stuff. I've been playing this game for a long time, and I had my first ever lockup today playing (of course) the latest Archwing content.

What I'd really like to see is a period of slow growth with only minor content additions for a while, to give you guys some time to put in the (admittedly horribly boring) grunt work of polishing and fixing what's there. The networking system is so hit-and-miss that I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't quicker to rewrite it from scratch than to fix it. Multiple warframes are only situationally useful (Mag), not fun (Rhino), or just underpowered (looking at you, Ember). Moreover, when you do get around to making the endgame content you've been talking about, there will be serious problems because a lot of things don't scale. Ember is horribly underpowered even in current mid- to high-level matches because she does a flat number of damage, and that flaw is shared between almost all of the frames, since most have at least one power like that. Most weapons are just speedbumps on the road to higher mastery ranks: leveled to 30 and then never played again. You've even tacitly acknowledged that fact with the new syndicate weapon mods going on weapons nobody would otherwise want to use.

Don't get me wrong: the game is good, and fun to play. But only when it works as intended. Also, I really DO want to see new content too. I'm excited about the prospects of hubs and Focus. I'd just like to be able to use them without screaming at my monitor.

Edited November 2, 2014 by Padreic

[RossRam]

This is just true. DE should stop a bit and just spend a month fixing all those bugs, because there are tons of'em.

[JohnProdman]

Guess what, and you probably predicted this response.

 

The game is BETA. You agreed to this when you installed the game.

 

The development team pushes out content and the bug-fixers fix the bugs. They work independently from one another. Should they go home for a few months without pay?

 

Sorry, but this thread is stupid, unoriginal, ignorant, and just plain unnecessary. The devs aren't going to stop putting out new content to make it bug-free because it's not meant to be. It's called testing for a reason.

 

You're a tester whether you like it or not. Don't care for bugs? Come back in a year or two.

Edited November 2, 2014 by JohnProdman

[StinkyPygmy]

Wait... what?

A thread about bug fixing and balance that doesn't think the art team should get in on the action, that bug fixing is easy or that new content puts bug fixing to a complete stop?

 

Congrats OP. This is the first reasonable thread on the issue I have ever seen and I agree for the most part. The problem is with archwing etc just being released and it being in an obviously very alpha-ish state, slowing down on new content that could only add to the issue now is kind of a weird move. You will have people screaming "wheres meh content?" and "archwing is so boring, is this all it will ever be?" etc.

 

Oh... wait... people already are doing that.

Nevermind.

 

I would be happy to see content slow down a little bit in favor of a bit more attention to tweaks and fixes.

Unless that new content comes in the form of enemy balance/difficulty 2.0 or scaling 2.0.

 

Edit: just to be clear I hate "stop development, bug fixes only"threads as much as everyone else. But props to OP for at least demonstrating  a degree of understanding about how it works and only asking for a reasonable slow down.

Edited November 2, 2014 by StinkyPygmy

[Senketsu_]

And all of last week was nothing but bug fixes. No new content save for a fundraiser and a small Halloween mission.

[Coatduck]

It's what, a week after the update?
There are going to be bugs
It's a beta. You are beta testing brand new content. You are here to find bugs.
If you don't want the bugs then don't play for a few weeks after a gigantic update.
The people who want the new content will play it, find the bugs, they send in the bugs, then the people who can fix the bugs fix bugs.
I see one of these threads at least once a day after every major update and I'll say the same thing to you as to them

The people who can work on fixing bugs are working on fixing bugs. They can't afford to pay the majority of their staff to sit around on their hands while the QA team spends a month trying to find bugs that would take a player base 5 minutes. They know what they're doing. You don't. They are not going to go bankrupt taking your advice so that they can give a few beta testers who don't understand what a beta is a shiny bug-free game. We're beta testers. We test for bugs. What a god damn surprise.

Edited November 2, 2014 by Coatduck

[(XBOX)ShapelessHorr0r]

The first three sentences remove any argument.

Edit: We're not beta testers. DE is selling stuff to us and making a profit. This is a "complete" game.

Edited November 2, 2014 by (XB1)ShapelessHorr0r

[Buzkyl]

It's what, a week after the update?

There are going to be bugs

It's a beta. You are beta testing brand new content. You are here to find bugs.

If you don't want the bugs then don't play for a few weeks after a gigantic update.

The people who want the new content will play it, find the bugs, they send in the bugs, then the people who can fix the bugs fix bugs.

I see one of these threads at least once a day after every major update and I'll say the same thing to you as to them

The people who can work on fixing bugs are working on fixing bugs. They can't afford to pay the majority of their staff to sit around on their hands while the QA team spends a month trying to find bugs that would take a player base 5 minutes. They know what they're doing. You don't. They are not going to go bankrupt taking your advice so that they can give a few beta testers who don't understand what a beta is a shiny bug-free game. We're beta testers. We test for bugs. What a god damn surprise.

 

The Reason "it's beta" is just becoming an excuse.

 

The frame mentioned things that i'm certain the staff have been hearing. Such as the imbalance of power among frames. The numerous connectivity. And the fact that many weapons are purely mastery Fodder.

 

None of these are an excuse of "it's beta, we're suppose to tolerate it". Because when the playerbase has brought up these issues multiple times and there is no sign of a response from the Devs (and the sheer number of tims it's brought up, the Dvs could not miss it).

 

"It's beta" is thrown out the window.

 

"It's beta" is the reason ArchWing got a very hazardous release involving numerous crashing. Acceptable.

 

It is not an excuse for Nekros, still being one-trick pony. Or ember still being subpar for  a glass tank frame. Oberon who is newer than both got buffed more quicker.

[(XBOX)ShapelessHorr0r]

Again, it isn't a beta.

[Buzkyl]

Again, it isn't a beta.

 

It's a beta.

[(XBOX)ShapelessHorr0r]

It's a beta.

DE sell stuff to us and make a profit. I'd love to hear your reasoning.

[Buzkyl]

DE sell stuff to us and make a profit. I'd love to hear your reasoning.

 

That actually does not mean it's a completed product whatsoever.

 

If this game was made as a completed product, we'd know.

[(XBOX)ShapelessHorr0r]

That actually does not mean it's a completed product whatsoever.

If this game was made as a completed product, we'd know.

No gaming products are never actually complete anymore.

No, the term complete must change for games.

"Complete" is when a dev or publisher feels the game is ready to be purchased in some form.

Due to the nature of software, old world ideas behind "complete" and "beta" are null and void.

WF isn't actually a beta, but the term "beta" is used as a scapegoat due to the restrictions of a small dev team.

Hence the reason why indies and lesser devs make these statements.

Edited November 2, 2014 by (XB1)ShapelessHorr0r

[1c0n]

 

The game is BETA.

 

So it's just enough to say that the game is in a "forever Beta state" to justify all the nuisances, all the rage, all the time I lost with the bugs.

Nice.

I'm expecting some major update to add Warframe driving space cars, scuba diving (no wait... That's really happening...), rock climbing, bungee jumping, doing fatalities and Shun Goku Satsu to enemies  and what else? But hey, doesn't matter if I'm praying every match for the game not crashing/disconnecting/lagging/session unavailable/unable to join session from months up till now wasting my time as the farming and trying to a find a match WITH A CHAT wasn't a waste of time enough; it's a beta so shut up. Seems like betas now are "Adding content and other content and things along with a ton of bugs, but we aren't solving bugs because it's a beta" LOL

Like a shiny new Ferrari that doesn't start when you push the button and idles at 240 km/h. That is Warframe now.

As I said elsewhere

 

"Also you're biting more that you can chew: you continue to introduce new maps and modes and bugs but i see people only asking for T4D, T4S ODD, sometimes a Vault run. Why aren't you revamping nightmare modes? Why aren't you introducing new type of enemies in normal maps with special reward, something very powerful and difficult to kill but with a chance of dropping something useful (prime parts, 3X Orokin cell, whatever)? Why I have mods for stealth but I've never seen a single mission done in stealth mode (I mean, guys, really: if I'm a prison guard I'm not thinking twice about executing an Hostage if the alarms sounds like "AWOOOOOOGAAAAAWOOOOOOGA TENNO ON THE SHIP THEY ARE TRYING TO LIBERATE THE HOSTAAAAAAAAARGGGGGH", don't you agree?)? Why most mission are still "Run from A to B at warp speed" with no one opening chest, lockers or even bothering to find out secret rooms?

 

DE, please, I like Warframe, but it's time to do a step backward, thinking about what to do to improve our experience, not overcharging it."

Edited November 2, 2014 by 1c0n

[Shifted]

Sorry, but this thread is stupid, unoriginal, ignorant, and just plain unnecessary. 

The only thing ignorant I'm seeing is your post.

 

Guy is bringing legit concerns and you're dismissing everything he said with "LALALALALA BETA LALALALALA"

 

I agree with what he said.

 

We got archwing. That's a completely new way to play the game. I don't see why DE wants to push out swimming asap as well when Archwing is barely working.

 

What they need to do is fix archwing and then mainly pump content for it while fixing and tweaking whatever's wrong with the base game.

[dou888]

If anyone uses beta as a excuse for this game being full of bugs and unplayable, as users, we can awnser to it by stop buying plats and let the dev team starve. After all, we are only "beta testers", the money we pay to DE is not for experiencing game contents but buying more bugs to fustrate ourselfs, and DE do not have a responsebility to give their users a quality product because the money they received is for "beta testing" only.

Edited November 2, 2014 by dou888

[RossRam]

Again, DE really should stop just a bit. They should not sent anyone home or something like that. But some bugs are obvious and are in the game since their very introduction (like, enemies changing their colors after death).

 

And AI team can just re-write a lot of AI lines. Soldiers running around in circles and kubrows, who can't go through the door...

 

It's not even about archwing. Some bugs are so damn old, almost back to the CBT. And as being said, with all this 'pre-launch' and 'early launch' stuff everywhere, things like 'beta' are really, really changing their meaning.

Edited November 2, 2014 by RossRam

[Dawnstrider]

Less Kubrows, More 2.0s I say.

 

You can't build anything sound on a wonky foundation. Adding more rooms and decorations won't fix a crumbling floor.

 

Idiots crying for more "ENDGAEM" What even is endgame? People say Void is endgame, people say t4 is endgame, people say MR17 is endgame. Screw the endgame what about the currentgame?

 

Dark Sectors, Kubrows and now Archwing. People will be bored of it within a month, see the flaws, complain about this and that but DE will be too busy trying to add the next big thing to keep people happy instead of improving the core.

[(XBOX)ShapelessHorr0r]

My respect in this community has risen.

[vaugahn]

No gaming products are never actually complete anymore.

No, the term complete must change for games.

"Complete" is when a dev or publisher feels the game is ready to be purchased in some form.

Due to the nature of software, old world ideas behind "complete" and "beta" are null and void.

WF isn't actually a beta, but the term "beta" is used as a scapegoat due to the restrictions of a small dev team.

Hence the reason why indies and lesser devs make these statements.

 

The term beta isn't really accurate, it's just become an accepted term in this situation. Really, Warframe is more of an alpha.

 

In this case, beta is understood to mean that the game is in active development. Which it is. 

 

While there are some things that can not (and should not) be excused with the "it's in beta" response, there are plenty of other situations where that is totally valid. 

[Fraystar]

How about a Public test server..?

[1c0n]

 

 

While there are some things that can not (and should not) be excused with the "it's in beta" response, there are plenty of other situations where that is totally valid. 

 

This is also true. That's why I insist in stop adding content and kill the bugs.

Look at Kunos Simulazioni, a very little s.h. and their Assetto Corsa: instead of flooding players with hundred of cars and circuits they have made a slow start, moved to a proprietary engine, added a bunch of cars and a few circuits, polished the game again and again and now they are on release candidate, planning to add more car brands and other circuits soon. The game is doing well despite the fact that it is an hardcore race sim.

DE is doing the opposite, throwing at us a "New mode" every couple of months while orokin drones still remain trapped on open doors...

Did you also notice that there are more high level players while low level are disappearing? Think about it, that's not good...

[vaugahn]

Did you also notice that there are more high level players while low level are disappearing? Think about it, that's not good...

 

Well, actually it's somewhat the opposite. 

 

But our numbers aren't really in dispute. One of the stranger things about this situation is despite that it may seem like the game is wearing thin, our numbers are actually climbing. 

[1c0n]

Strange.

Every time I play i see more 12/13 and higher mastery rank and less 2/3/4 than before.

Do you have some data on this?

[vaugahn]

Strange.

Every time I play i see more 12/13 and higher mastery rank and less 2/3/4 than before.

Do you have some data on this?

 

Just based on personal observations, it seems that older players are slowly filtering out. There are less and less founders badges around, and I don't see as many people from CBT in game anymore. 

 

But our average online playerbase has been climbing steadily, which is a good indicator of more active players. 

 

Also, I think there may be a system that pairs you with people of similar MR. Not sure about that one though.