Archwing: Warframe Choices

[TGDM]

Currently, because of the lack of options for damage mitigation, the way enemies deal damage, and the way warframes carry over passive stat bonuses to archwings, there is a very noticeable tier list of effective warframes. The difference between playing the top tier and even just the second tier are worlds apart in survivability which is the key to success in current archwing combat, especially considering warframes add nothing other than effective HP with the exception of Flow for energy and aura choice.

 

Top tier: Valkyr

Second tier: Rhino Prime, Rhino, Frost (″)

Average tier: Saryn, Oberon, Mag, Hydroid

Bottom tier: Everything else

 

As it is right now, Armor is the most effective stat to take with you into archwing missions. Shields can be useful, but because of the way Blast damage works and how it is nearly impossible to even find cover / run away to regenerate shields on Grineer missions, they are not nearly as effective as having high armor + Rejuvenation aura.

 

To reiterate, this tier list exists because:

 

* Enemies can still attack you, and with great accuracy, whilst both of you are sprinting, making it very difficult to replenish shields

 

* In Grineer missions especially there is a substantial lack of cover to help mitigate damage received via counterplay

 

* When stunned by taking Blast damage you will find your shields depleted very quickly. This is exacerbated greatly by the Hellion missiles being bugged or otherwise not properly matching their visual to the actual hitbox

 

I would strongly suggest adding a bit more personal flavor of each warframe to archwings so that the choice is not as blatant as it is now. Either as a passive modifier to archwing abilities or just a blatant replacement of one of the skills with something that changes per warframe. A few examples for a few frames with both of these alternatives in mind:

 

Mag:

Odonata's Energy Shell magnetizes shields within X range upon initial cast, replenishing allies' shields and damaging enemies in addition to its existing behavior.

Elytron's Bloomer causes enemies within the blast radius to be pulled in to the source of the explosion in addition to its existing behavior.

 

Loki:

Odonata's Energy Shell grants Loki stealth for X seconds upon initial cast.

Elytron's Bloomer places a holographic decoy at the location it detonates.

 

Ember:

Odonata's Energy Shell creates a fiery burst for Y damage and X range upon initial cast.

Elytron's Bloomer leaves a fiery sphere at the location which deals Y damage for X seconds.

 

Limbo:

Odonata's Energy Shell places Limbo into the rift for X seconds upon initial cast. Bullets fired through the shield return to the corporeal plane enemies are on.

Elytron's Bloomer creates a brief disruption that draws enemies into the rift and out again in less than half a second, dealing extra damage.

 

Something, anything, to give us a reason to use more than just Valkyr and maybe Rhino Prime.

[Sifu]

Yes, I agree that Archwing is bugged as hell now and there is no reason to use anything except Rhino and Valkyr... 

 

Possibly we cant use our Tenno powers with Archwing, because "tenno energy" flows through archwing now, blocking the use of standart abilities. 

Also its kinda stupid, that we get Armor and HP buff from frames, but cant get other buffs, like duration or efficiency.

 

Currently I`m not playing warframe, waiting for this rediculous things to be fixed.

[Tali]

Yes, I agree that Archwing is bugged as hell now and there is no reason to use anything except Rhino and Valkyr... 

 

Possibly we cant use our Tenno powers with Archwing, because "tenno energy" flows through archwing now, blocking the use of standart abilities. 

Also its kinda stupid, that we get Armor and HP buff from frames, but cant get other buffs, like duration or efficiency.

 

Currently I`m not playing warframe, waiting for this rediculous things to be fixed.

i could really use some of those. personally i think that all energy, duration, health, shield, strength, armor mods should affect archwing

Edited November 10, 2014 by Aeon66

[Arkezuli]

DE needs to someone with a brain to replace Scott. Like OP.

[Sifu]

DE needs to someone with a brain to replace Scott. Like OP.

 

Its a standart thing in game development. No one can create a brilliant game from scratch, that will fit everyone. But DE sure could try better with Archwing and Syndicates...

 

Too much content, too much bugs and really bad choices, like selling mods for reputation... 

[MantisCore]

I think the real problem is that the warframe affects the stats in archwing missions at all. Warframes are balanced against each other as a whole kit and when you allow only select attributes to make a difference you will inevitably create an imbalanced playing field. Archwings should really be balanced only against other archwings. They already have their own mods for everything the warframe contributes anyway so you could conceivably rebalance those to replace any current contribution form the frame and frame mods. It would certainly make the whole thing a lot easier to balance.

[TGDM]

I think the real problem is that the warframe affects the stats in archwing missions at all. Warframes are balanced against each other as a whole kit and when you allow only select attributes to make a difference you will inevitably create an imbalanced playing field. Archwings should really be balanced only against other archwings. They already have their own mods for everything the warframe contributes anyway so you could conceivably rebalance those to replace any current contribution form the frame and frame mods. It would certainly make the whole thing a lot easier to balance.

 

Unfortunately, in its current form, this is a very staunch requirement for archwing. With the current scaling difficulty and lack of defensive options in gameplay you would be utterly destroyed without warframe stats carrying over right now. And I don't think that's a bad thing - I think it's a bad thing that there is no real viable choices.

[MantisCore]

Unfortunately, in its current form, this is a very staunch requirement for archwing. With the current scaling difficulty and lack of defensive options in gameplay you would be utterly destroyed without warframe stats carrying over right now. And I don't think that's a bad thing - I think it's a bad thing that there is no real viable choices.

Sure, warframe contribution to stats are a requirement at the moment but only because the numbers are balanced with those contributions in mind. There is nothing that the warframe provides that couldn't just as easily come from the archwing directly. Of course this would mean a rebalancing of all the numbers; archwing, mods and enemies included.

 

Unfortunately I see no easy way of giving you those options without stripping out the warframe stats from the equation (effectively making the choice moot). The idea in the original post sounds great but designing, implementing and balancing 20+ additional abilities per archwing, not to mention having to revisit each archwing every time a new frame is released or updated, doesn't sound terribly realistic to me. But who knows, maybe they could surprise me.

[TGDM]

Sure, warframe contribution to stats are a requirement at the moment but only because the numbers are balanced with those contributions in mind. There is nothing that the warframe provides that couldn't just as easily come from the archwing directly. Of course this would mean a rebalancing of all the numbers; archwing, mods and enemies included.

 

Unfortunately I see no easy way of giving you those options without stripping out the warframe stats from the equation (effectively making the choice moot). The idea in the original post sounds great but designing, implementing and balancing 20+ additional abilities per archwing, not to mention having to revisit each archwing every time a new frame is released or updated, doesn't sound terribly realistic to me. But who knows, maybe they could surprise me.

 

There are several problems with Archwing mission design that will affect the longevity of the game mode. Namely resource and credit generation among other lackluster rewards that do not translate well into other areas of the game. I really doubt they would implement something as outlandish as what I suggested but I was hoping it would get the ball rolling for discussion. I both agree and disagree that your Warframe choice should not matter and they should rebalance around that, but at the same time I would love to see the warframe I choose have some sort of affect in Archwing.

 

If nothing else it might finally get DE to reconsider how they balance Warframe stats in regards to survivability. If they can make a Loki just as viable as Valkyr for Archwing alone that would be great and the simplest method would be to do as you suggested - make the Warframe loadout have no effect on Archwing loadout (other than maybe syndicate sigils). I'm hoping the mid-Novemeber update adjusts the bullet sponge contest that Archwing has currently become by improving enemy AI and adding more cover options on Grineer maps in particular.

[Sifu]

There are several problems with Archwing mission design that will affect the longevity of the game mode. Namely resource and credit generation among other lackluster rewards that do not translate well into other areas of the game. I really doubt they would implement something as outlandish as what I suggested but I was hoping it would get the ball rolling for discussion. I both agree and disagree that your Warframe choice should not matter and they should rebalance around that, but at the same time I would love to see the warframe I choose have some sort of affect in Archwing.

 

If nothing else it might finally get DE to reconsider how they balance Warframe stats in regards to survivability. If they can make a Loki just as viable as Valkyr for Archwing alone that would be great and the simplest method would be to do as you suggested - make the Warframe loadout have no effect on Archwing loadout (other than maybe syndicate sigils). I'm hoping the mid-Novemeber update adjusts the bullet sponge contest that Archwing has currently become by improving enemy AI and adding more cover options on Grineer maps in particular.

 

Boosting archwing abilities with specific warframe abilities sounds nice, but I dont think its that easy in terms of game mechanics. I really hope that we`ll have some stealth archwings in future, so we wont be forced to use Valkyr/Rhino. 

[MantisCore]

There are several problems with Archwing mission design that will affect the longevity of the game mode. Namely resource and credit generation among other lackluster rewards that do not translate well into other areas of the game. I really doubt they would implement something as outlandish as what I suggested but I was hoping it would get the ball rolling for discussion. I both agree and disagree that your Warframe choice should not matter and they should rebalance around that, but at the same time I would love to see the warframe I choose have some sort of affect in Archwing.

 

If nothing else it might finally get DE to reconsider how they balance Warframe stats in regards to survivability. If they can make a Loki just as viable as Valkyr for Archwing alone that would be great and the simplest method would be to do as you suggested - make the Warframe loadout have no effect on Archwing loadout (other than maybe syndicate sigils). I'm hoping the mid-Novemeber update adjusts the bullet sponge contest that Archwing has currently become by improving enemy AI and adding more cover options on Grineer maps in particular.

Yes, I agree with all of that. Hopefully we'll get some survivability options for archwing in the future that doesn't involve taking it all on the chin and the archwing mode in general needs to be better integrated into the rest of the game for sure.

 

Removing the warframe stats from the archwing game mode is the safe and boring option, but maybe it's the right one if we are taking balance seriously. In any case it could make the choice of archwing more important for archwing missions and I would be alright with that.