Tar Moas: Specific And Technical Feedback [Image-Heavy]

[Rydian]

I was about to point out that you're standing still in most of your examples before I realized it was intentionally done for testing purposes. They hit like a truck and you get hit a lot if you're not moving, but this is a tricky thing. You can't just nerf their accuracy to the point where you can sit on your tiny pole in defense and never get hit, and you can't nerf their damage until you can just straight up disregard them. These units make infested more of a threat, and move them away from the "throw a vortex and bastille by the pod and shoot the vortex till wave 60 while standing on a lamp" type of enemy. I'm not trying to say "git good n00b" or anything like that, that's demeaning, rude, and arrogant, I'm just trying to iterate that an enemy that requires you to adapt your playstyle to effectively counter it isn't necessarily a bad thing.

The damage on impact is way too much, that's the main issue.  The tar should present a hazard and stop you from standing still, but getting one-shot in less than one second is what's the worst.

 

 

I'm not disagreeing with you, either. All of your suggested changes are fine and dandy if one or two are implemented, but your start in the OP brings about false assumptions of a campy playstyle. Just thought I'd point that out :)

Fine, geeze, I'll go edit the first post already...

[CapedBaldy]

They still deal a ton of damage. My Rhino got hit for 800 Shield Damage worth on Uranus. That would be enough to kill off most of the caster frames. Infested is still a one shot land, especially with Toxic Ancient screams.

[CY13ERPUNK]

apparently disagreeing with the OP gets your post removed in this thread?

 

would be nice if there was some record of whatever/whoever mod moved/deleted posts... =/

 

 

Damage of original projectile is the only thing that should be nerfed a bit.

 

 

Yes, you are not supposed to stand forever on high ground and kill infested without a sweat, sorry for that.

 

 

i originally +1'd and quoted this post as i agreed with it, i dont see why my post and follow up response was removed =/

Edited December 14, 2014 by CY13ERPUNK

[Azzaruth]

They still deal a ton of damage. My Rhino got hit for 800 Shield Damage worth on Uranus. That would be enough to kill off most of the caster frames. Infested is still a one shot land, especially with Toxic Ancient screams.

 

That is because Iron Skin is ferrite armor and corrosive does a ton of damage to ferrite armor. My Loki can survive a direct shot from a level 32 Tar Moa now.

[AwesomeShuckle]

As far as I can tell, their damage is very inconsistent.  Their tar pools usually deal very little damage,  but I have also seen it instakill within a fraction of a second.  The impact of their shots also appears to act about the same.  I have been one-shotted while moving and standing still, so i don't think that has anything to do with whether or not your moving.

[AwesomeShuckle]

That is because Iron Skin is ferrite armor and corrosive does a ton of damage to ferrite armor. My Loki can survive a direct shot from a level 32 Tar Moa now.

He said shield damage though, which would imply he wasn't using iron skin.

[Divinehero]

no kidding the on hit damage of that spit needs a signfiicant nerf when it can take down 450 HP and 700 shields in a single blow something is horribly wrong

[DSpite]

weird on the third gif i clearly see lvl 18 on the Tar Moa.

 

not to mention all screens are bellow the 20th round, which means, under your assumption, one should not be able to reach the "C" rotation prizes... EVER.

 

were not even talking about long mission but first attempts at most prizes.

 

Way to cherry pick information to fit your argument.

 

When they first came out I got one-shot a few times on my Excalibur, and had no idea what was happening, as they were brand new and did not understand the mechanics, I even asked on the forums.

 

I have not been killed like that since by that unit, because I don't stand still, and even running directly at them makes them miss. You can stand on the front edge of crates and because they try to hit in front of you, they end up missing the mark most of the time.

 

You can get to C rotation fine with a team AND/OR moving around, and actually using your damn abilities and not just spamming a Penta. He can throw his ability grenades fine from up there too. He was purposefully staying still and letting everything hit him.

 

Enemies of a level HIGHER then your Frame level SHOULD murder you, that is the entire point of them being higher level. Considering that THAT unit is STILL the ONLY one that can get him up there, then perhaps if he makes that run for real he should consider giving it priority.

[Mak_Gohae]

He said shield damage though, which would imply he wasn't using iron skin.

 

I was doing an invasion where the top level was 45 solo and those things are a joke now. It was sad, they did not had me worrying for a second.

I was Saryn, btw. Did have a lot of health and shield.

Edited December 14, 2014 by Mak_Gohae

[Kthal]

To everyone who keeps saying "if you keep moving, you won't get hit"...

 

It has been clearly demonstrated in this thread that Tar Moas have about 0.4-0.8 seconds between starting an attack and hitting you.

 

How many abilities have a casting animation longer than 0.8 seconds?

 

 

 

(For comparison, Invisibility has a very short cast time of 0.75 seconds.)

Edited December 14, 2014 by Kthal

[Renegade343]

To everyone who keeps saying "if you keep moving, you won't get hit"...

 

It has been clearly demonstrated in this thread that Tar Moas have about 0.4-0.8 seconds between starting an attack and hitting you.

 

How many abilities have a casting animation longer than 0.8 seconds?

Or you could (I say could, but I am not sure how many players actually do that) get to a safer spot to cast abilities with long casting animations.

 

I mean, standing out in the open and casting an ability with long casting animation in front of two Heavy Gunners or two Corpus Techs is not a rather smart move, and since Tar Mutalist MOAs seem to cover that role (loosely), I thought we could transfer that logic to Infested games. 

 

Just saying that there is a way to avoid that (not arguing against tweaks, to be clear). 

[Rydian]

As far as I can tell, their damage is very inconsistent.  Their tar pools usually deal very little damage,  but I have also seen it instakill within a fraction of a second.  The impact of their shots also appears to act about the same.  I have been one-shotted while moving and standing still, so i don't think that has anything to do with whether or not your moving.

From my tests and recordings, they deal damage multiple times at once, using multiple hitboxes.  How many of them strike you helps determine whether they damage, cripple, or kill you.

 

 

Or you could (I say could, but I am not sure how many players actually do that) get to a safer spot to cast abilities with long casting animations.

 

I mean, standing out in the open and casting an ability with long casting animation in front of two Heavy Gunners or two Corpus Techs is not a rather smart move, and since Tar Mutalist MOAs seem to cover that role (loosely), I thought we could transfer that logic to Infested games. 

 

Just saying that there is a way to avoid that (not arguing against tweaks, to be clear). 

Techs and Gunners can't accurately kill players from the range seen in the first gift in the first post, nor from the ranges seen in the timing test gif set.  They have ranges more akin to Bombards, but with little to no dodging time.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Anyways from my few experiences with those things in the past day, it looks like 15.7's changes have actually worked this time, more or less.

Fixed Tar-Mutalist MOA’s projectile still causing Radiation damage.  Also removed area damage effect from attack.

- They're not as deadly as they were before, I seem to be taking less damage (though will have to make recordings to confirm).

- I'm not seeing any other reports of people getting radiated and I have not been radiated since 15.7.

- I can definitely say that the huge AOE on impact has been removed.  Now only the projectile and tar itself do damage, there's not a huge invisible damage box around them (as was seen in my previous set of gifs).