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Ember: Surviving Canadian Winters

[DE]Grineeer

By [DE]Grineeer,
in Developer Workshops

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HyenaGrin

HyenaGrin

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Posted (edited)

Lovely to see an Ember buff, it's been a long time coming. Visually, Ember is my favorite frame. She was the first frame I got after the start, and she spurred my interest in the game immensely. However, I could never justify using her over Nova, who pretty much does Ember's job and then-some. Nova just has a lot more potential for utility.

 

I am not sure that these changes will put Ember in the same league as Nova, simply because Molecular Prime is basically a bigger, badder Accelerant for all damage types. But it does help, and I am looking forward to re-speccing my Ember for this change and giving her a fresh start.

 

Just some additional changes I'd like to suggest:

 

1. Accelerant should, on top of multiplying fire damage against enemies, also give friendlies bonus fire damage if they are within the radius of the ability. Basically, regardless of the damage type of friendly weapons, they would get a percentage increase of fire damage, as if they had a fire damage mod on their weapon. Which would then be multiplied by enemies affected by the Accelerant. That way, teams don't have to spec fire in order to play well with Ember (which would be nice, since NOBODY SPECS FIRE ANYMORE. Thanks damage 2.0 =P)

 

2. Fire Blast really needs something happening inside the ring. I will be honest, I think it should be scrapped and a new ability developed for her, something that makes her feel mobile and powerful. The wall of fire effect will be a nice addition, but it remains that enemies running through the ring barely take any damage and then the ring is useless. Enemies inside the ring ought to either take damage or have a random chance (by tick) to ignite with a fire proc.

 

3. Just as a flight of the imagination, as a replacement for Fire Blast: Imagine an ability where Ember ignites into flames, then flashes forward (similar to Nova's teleport, but much shorter in range and not instantaneous). This would leave a line of fire on the ground (that behaves like Ring of Fire in terms of damage) but also causes a slightly delayed shockwave of fire (similar to wall of fire) to follow in her wake. This would do fire damage in a cone along her trajectory and knock enemies down. It would let her plow through enemies, give her precision CC, and also improve her mobility. You'd still have a ring of fire effect, but it could be used more strategically, like laying it down in a hallway, making it more likely for enemies to spend more time in the fire. It would be a great escape ability, as it would let her push through a wall of enemies and also stun them briefly, giving her time to move away. Which is something Ember really needs, even with an armor buff. (I'd call the ability Flash Fire)

Edited by HyenaGrin
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Feyangol

Feyangol

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Posted

With the Skill under maxed power it does about 1136 with oe i thinks is like 600

~1100 with all dmg mods (yes, blind rage too).

 

To compare the dmg:

1 Loki Radial Disarm does more dmg than 1 explosion of Embers 'World on Fire' (without Accelerant).

The dmg needs to be increased :P .

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searlefm

searlefm

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THANK YOU DE¬!

I want to love ember more as she was my second ever frame and my first Prime.
Her theme and appearance are wonderful and the flaming crest on the Prime version!
thank you for giving one of the coolest frames much needed attention.

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CHunterX

CHunterX

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~1100 with all dmg mods (yes, blind rage too).

 

To compare the dmg:

1 Loki Radial Disarm does more dmg than 1 explosion of Embers 'World on Fire' (without Accelerant).

The dmg needs to be increased :P .

I don't know if you are being purposely ignorant, but unmodded WoF does 2000 damage over the duration, assuming there are enemies within range. That's still more than any other ultimate at base. Both duration and strength increase it, which is rarely true of any ultimate, not to mention Accelerate, which also benefits from strength, boosting the damage taken to nearby targets to high levels. As far as I know, she's the only frame who can boost the damage of her own ultimate with her own abilities.

The only issue WoF has is the casting time, which feels like 30 seconds. Most ultimates are either really quick (Saryn, Excalibur) or offer some sort of crowd control during the animation (Frost, Mag). Even Mirage's Disco ball, which is also insufferably long can be detonated instantly for an incredible crowd support in Blind. Historically, most media portrays the summoning of fire to be something that, once learned, occurs with a snap of a finger or a simple thought. It's strange that in Warframe it's the slowest thing to conjure. 

Edited by CHunterX
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(PSN)freakyassassin24

(PSN)freakyassassin24

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I don't know if you are being purposely ignorant, but unmodded WoF does 2000 damage over the duration, assuming there are enemies within range. That's still more than any other ultimate at base. Both duration and strength increase it, which is rarely true of any ultimate, not to mention Accelerate, which also benefits from strength, boosting the damage taken to nearby targets to high levels. As far as I know, she's the only frame who can boost the damage of her own ultimate with her own abilities.

The only issue WoF has is the casting time, which feels like 30 seconds. Most ultimates are either really quick (Saryn, Excalibur) or offer some sort of crowd control during the animation (Frost, Mag). Even Mirage's Disco ball, which is also insufferably long can be detonated instantly for an incredible crowd support in Blind.

She is also affected by range which makes hard since you have to balance out all four. Also the damge all together might be 2000 but they each alone do 400 which is not that good considering that it probably is not going to skrike the same person.

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Ryjeon

Ryjeon

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 I personally don't agree with the idea of WoF being a toggle ability, it will significantly increase the amount of energy she needs to use to do the same things she can now. 

 

When I use WoF with my build I get ~23sec of use for 70 energy. I'll wait to test this out for myself before I judge but how much energy would that same 23sec be equivalent to with this new mechanic?

 

@Ryjeon Also she isn't meant as a team damage booster, she is the team damage dealer. Her powers allow her to deal insane amounts of damage without relying on other warframes buffs (which would become the icing on the cake). You're not supposed to focus on your team when playing ember you focus on the enemies right in front of you and assault them with fire until they burn! If you want to buffer your team, play a different frame instead of trying to utilize the weakpoints of a warframe who's strong point is is mobile self reliant dps.

 

Giving her the ability to debuff enemy armor is important for maintaining her own damage output when enemies begin to reach levels of 95% damage reduction through armor. No amount of 10000% accelerant heat buffs is going to keep her relevant in those kind of situations. When I referred to her as a team damage booster I was largely referring to her need to be a significant source of the teams overall damage whether from her own damage or from buffing her allies heat damage. Currently she is fantastic when the team is running max corrosive projection. But she needs to be independent of that scenario. I currently run a corrosive/heat Serro to circumvent this issue but "melting armor" should be a core part of her kit and overall team contribution.

 

I main melee Ember. I know how to play her as a mobile self-reliant dps just fine. But her role still needs to be expanded if she is to become more acceptable to T4 pub hosts, the most popular mode of high level play.

Edited by Ryjeon
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Feyangol

Feyangol

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I don't know if you are being purposely ignorant, but unmodded WoF does 2000 damage over the duration, assuming there are enemies within range. That's still more than any other ultimate at base. Both duration and strength increase it, which is rarely true of any ultimate, not to mention Accelerate, which also benefits from strength, boosting the damage taken to nearby targets to high levels. As far as I know, she's the only frame who can boost the damage of her own ultimate with her own abilities.

The only issue WoF has is the casting time, which feels like 30 seconds. Most ultimates are either really quick (Saryn, Excalibur) or offer some sort of crowd control during the animation (Frost, Mag). Even Mirage's Disco ball, which is also insufferably long can be detonated instantly for an incredible crowd support in Blind. Historically, most media portrays the summoning of fire to be something that, once learned, occurs with a snap of a finger or a simple thought. It's strange that in Warframe it's the slowest thing to conjure. 

Learn to read:

1 Explosion does less dmg than a radial disarm. I did not speak about the dmg over time, only that 1 explosion is weaker than a loki radial disarm. 

 

I know that this ability should do big amount of dmg over time, but currently it does the same dmg as a loki who spams radial disarms against infested (at least it is more effective if you look at the energy costs :P ). In my opinion this needs to be changed.

Edited by Feyangol
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Xtenz

Xtenz

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Posted

She is also affected by range which makes hard since you have to balance out all four. Also the damge all together might be 2000 but they each alone do 400 which is not that good considering that it probably is not going to skrike the same person.

 

It's not hard , but you just can't go full something on her otherwise you'll be just lackluster(even more ), you just take a little of everything and you end up not being that good because of the 8 mods slots restriction .

 

All stats does matter too much on her , we need something to "sacrifice" in order to make her efficient .

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Ryjeon

Ryjeon

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Learn to read:

1 Explosion does less dmg than a radial disarm. I did not speak about the dmg over time, only that 1 explosion is weaker than a loki radial disarm. 

 

I know that this ability should do big amount of dmg over time, but currently it does the same dmg as a loki who spams radial disarms against infested (at least it is more effective if you look at the energy costs :P ). In my opinion this needs to be changed.

 

If the Loki is spamming Radial Disarms than that is his only source of damage. World on Fire's damage should be considered in addition to the damage from Ember's Accelerant buffed weapons and other abilities. It supports a very different playstyle than the usual ult-spamming frames she is often compared to.

Edited by Ryjeon
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Jehts

Jehts

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Posted (edited)

Ability Changes:

-          Fire Blast has had a mechanic added. In addition to placing a ring of fire on casting location, it -will now also generate a growing wall of fire (like the Arson Eximus ability).

a dream that'll come true

Edited by Jehts
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Xtenz

Xtenz

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Adding bandaids is only gonna make the eventual change more of a headache because of the need to change all the bandaids.

 

 

Armor scaling shouldnt be a thing .  Armor could stay the same at all lvl and tweak the basic armor  & HP gains/lvl . It would be way easier to balance the "power creeps" issues

Edited by Xtenz
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BrazilianJoe

BrazilianJoe

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World On Fire Rework:

 

In addition, If Ember is ever hit by melee when WoF is active, The enemy hitting her should be hit by a vengeance WoF blast . This blast would be an extra, outside the normal explosion RoF of the skill. 

 

Accelerant should also boost second-order elemental damage which use fire in the combination.

Edited by BrazilianJoe
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Xtenz

Xtenz

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Posted (edited)

omgomgomgomgomgomgomgomgomgomg 

 

tumblr_mhqqy7mXMo1qbq6hyo1_500.gif

 

MY MAIN FRAME'S GONNA BE MY MAIN FRAME AGAIN!!!!!!

 

tumblr_mlaajo5mXa1qg2qydo1_400.gif

 

 

She would still be S#&$ tier mate , better but still bad .

 

 

Oh and i really enjoyed those gifs , they made me laugh way more than i should have . nice ones.

Edited by Xtenz
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