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Syndicate Syandana Locking Is Counter-Productive


Llyssa
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It was noted the main problem with arcane helmets were that they forced players to link looks and actions. Certain helmets gave awful stat penalties, or were just clearly inferior to others, so, no matter how much a player liked the style of a helm, they never wore it. This was bad, and thus, removed.

 

We've now replicated that with the syndicate syandanas being untradeable.

 

Right now, if you're a newbie who's finally reached the point of picking a syndicate, and you want to get the coolest looking syandana, your syndicate choice is limited to the one that has the syandana you want. It's not based on anything else, as you can trade for practically everything else, and what you can't trade for is either low visibility or has counterparts that do the same thing. The syandanas are high visibility though, and, like arcane helms, force a link between looks and actions.

 

So it doesn't matter who matches your ethos, it doesn't matter what you'd want to roleplay, or which frame you like--all of that can be ignored or traded for. But the syandana? Until you're a high rank player, you have absolutely no choice in the matter. You MUST pick the path of the one you like, or else.

 

It doesn't quite make sense that this step backwards would be taken after all the effort that went into remedying the arcane helmet situation.

 

What does your syndicate say about you now? Your preference in scarves. That doesn't really seem like the way to go.

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It was noted the main problem with arcane helmets were that they forced players to link looks and actions. Certain helmets gave awful stat penalties, or were just clearly inferior to others, so, no matter how much a player liked the style of a helm, they never wore it. This was bad, and thus, removed.

 

We've now replicated that with the syndicate syandanas being untradeable.

 

Right now, if you're a newbie who's finally reached the point of picking a syndicate, and you want to get the coolest looking syandana, your syndicate choice is limited to the one that has the syandana you want. It's not based on anything else, as you can trade for practically everything else, and what you can't trade for is either low visibility or has counterparts that do the same thing. The syandanas are high visibility though, and, like arcane helms, force a link between looks and actions.

 

So it doesn't matter who matches your ethos, it doesn't matter what you'd want to roleplay, or which frame you like--all of that can be ignored or traded for. But the syandana? Until you're a high rank player, you have absolutely no choice in the matter. You MUST pick the path of the one you like, or else.

 

It doesn't quite make sense that this step backwards would be taken after all the effort that went into remedying the arcane helmet situation.

 

What does your syndicate say about you now? Your preference in scarves. That doesn't really seem like the way to go.

 

Maybe that speculative newbie shouldn't be picking Syndicates for the "coolest looking syandana" in the first place. It's fine as is, and no, it doesn't need to be tradeable, and no, this thread wasn't necessary since there are already existing threads discussing this subject.

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How about, people just pick the syndicate that has the theme/goals they like the best and support them? Anything purely cosmetics showing you represent that faction should be locked. That being said, the less cool looking ones (what is going on with New Loka's?!) should be revisited. 

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What does your syndicate say about you now? Your preference in scarves. That doesn't really seem like the way to go.

My syndicate will always say exactly what it said before. Every cosmetic I wear is representative of an aspect of loyalty. No matter how many times people say that loyalty is not an aspect within the game, it still is; those people simply do not think the way of others.

Making them tradeable absolutely ruins this. It becomes a marketing ploy.

If you could sell Tac alert badges, would you be more inclined to complete the mission as an example of your loyalty of high expectation, or to turn a profit later down the road? I'm sure there are exceptions and illogical possibilities within that example, but that isn't the point as the question is hypothetical.

The point is, I want items that do not motivate me to turn a profit off of. I feel the syandanas are perfect items for this, the same as event badges. If you do not complete the event/Syndicate, you do not get the badge/syandana.

That is all I want to say regarding this topic, so as to represent my view on the subject.

I care not be subjected to hypocritical statements in the discussion as has happened in a topic of similar want beforehand. This is just a notice to inform I will not reply further

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The Syandana's are fine being faction locked because they are purely cosmetic. It's the same idea as the sigils you wear around to get syndicate rep. As for people picking factions based on nothing but looks that's their call and it doesn't really hurt anybody but themselves if the syndicates get more flushed out later and they realize they don't really like the guys their with.

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I don't see the situations as equivalent.  Arcane helmets were removed because there was a conflict between the way you LOOKED, and your STATS, so that people were forced to either sacrifice a cool look or a cool buff.  The syandanas, on the other hand, don't do anything.  The only metric of value is if it looks cool or not. And, if you don't think your syndicate's scarf looks cool, then don't wear it. There is no gameplay bonus or malus for using it, or not.

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Not really seeing the connection between stat helms and syndicate scarves...you don't gain anything boosts for wearing a scarf, and why would you wear apparel from a different/opposing faction? The point of them is to show your loyalty to a specific faction, and that you've actually dedicated your time to them and rewarded for it. We already have their weapons and mods tradable, we should have something besides sigils to tell what faction players are aligned with, and with these we can actually visibly represent 2 factions at once. 

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To be honest I think they should have kept weapons locked as well. It makes no sense to me that you can acquire something from someone else that was provided to you because of your large amount of effort within a syndicate only to trade it away. If they had kept them locked all players would have had easy access to 3 syn weapons and no imbalance would have occurred. People just wanted to be able to trade them because they did not like their choice of weapons and to me that speaks of a deficiency in the actual implementation of said weapons. If all of the weapons had a similar amount of power then it would have never been an issue. At that point it would have been only a matter of taste.

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Even if they are just purely cosmetic, users can still obtain all. It would take time yes but its certainly not impossible. Though it would be time consuming, tedious and annoying. So why not as well make them tradable? Some users may wear certain syandana's to show loyalty. Some wear it purely for the looks.

 

Besides if loyalty matters so much then by then logic shouldn't the weapons also be untradable? Despite mastery points being involved loyalty should outweigh that no?

 

I see no harm for them to be tradabe. I see it as a good thing. It would reduce grind and tedium and it could earn you platinum. Which would help the game make money.

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Even if they are just purely cosmetic, users can still obtain all. It would take time yes but its certainly not impossible. Though it would be time consuming, tedious and annoying. So why not as well make them tradable?

Then why not do just that if you want to obtain all the Syanadas? 

 

If you say that, do it. 

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Then why not do just that if you want to obtain all the Syanadas? 

 

If you say that, do it. 

Because WARFRAME is mostly if not completely centered around the players choice of what he wants to do or doesnt want to do , the fact that players start looking for workarounds to something hints that it could be tweaked to appease to both those who enjoy it and dislike it.

Also i have a friend that maxed all three of the last syndicates and bought everything they had to offer , because of the latest addition felt as if he was forced to switch over to the first three because he had the weapons of all the factions already and the mods (traded) , but never could he have the sigils and now the syndannas not to mention specific restores , what neither of us understand , is howcome the weapons are tradable then? or the mods? how are they any different of a way to show off loyalty and liking on certain syndicates? probably because they would trigger the kind of reaction we are getting right now only alot worse (and it did by the way , briefly), i mean im actually glad that my syndicates got the syndannas they did , i personally consider the last thee syndicate syndannas to be butt ugly and no frame of mine should be burdened to carry them , was my friend happy? nope , DE completely ignored the point that a healthy community resolves over freedom of choice , not forced grindwalls for things that could've just been simpler in the first place.

Then theres that other guy that doesnt care about syndicates at all and runs around with a synoid gammacor at MR6 because he had the plat to get it. Well that clearly shows some loyalty , no it doesnt , it just shows that he had the option to not care and still earn what he wanted in one way or another. Or maybe the fact that in the eyes of most players , including myself , some syndicates get more love than others , you know why? Because we all have different opinions on things and DE completely failed to deliver to most of us on that aspect. It's okay if you dont care , but you also have to realize that you are not the only person in this game with an opinion on something , that might just be different from yours.

P.S. When i see moderators only center their opinions around themselves i get really sad deep inside , you are supposed to be a representitive of the community and try to see more than one side of the coin , yet i only see expressions of own interest. I also side with people that say loyalty is nonexistant in this game , the only loyalty we have in the game is to the Lotus , and thats only because its not optional.

Edited by CR0SSB0NE
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Because WARFRAME is mostly if not completely centered around the players choice of what he wants to do or doesnt want to do , the fact that players start looking for workarounds to something hints that it could be tweaked to appease to both those who enjoy it and dislike it.

That is not a workaround at all. 

 

You can rank up a Syndicate that is at maximum negative rank back to full. It just takes time. 

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That is not a workaround at all.

You can rank up a Syndicate that is at maximum negative rank back to full. It just takes time.

Completely missed my initial point with no actual explanation as to why some things are tradable and some are not then.

You can argue that weapons absolutely had to be otherwise the forums would crash due to the amount of "i want my mastery fodder and i want it now" type threads and mods not being tradable would get even worse feedback than weapons , so how is this any different? are you going to say its just an accessory and it does not affect gameplay in any way shape or form? then why do people even buy accessories or any other customization options in the first place or maybe you will argue that there is an option its just behind an already tall enough grindwall with the added bonus of negative rep on top and the fact that not everyone really likes or agrees with what the syndicates aim is in the games universe but just wants an accessory that they feel would complete their look on a certain frame they may like and lastly , not all of us enjoy farming\grinding when it could've been the same case as it was with syndicate weapons or mods , some of us have things to do other than farm rep , some of us have responsibilities to fulfill and if you say that there's always some "spare time" you can find , i sure as hell don't want to spend it grinding it day after day after day especially if i value my time more than an underage person with more than enough to spare. (not targeted at you) This is a horrible choice and the only reason that comes to mind is that they are not tradable only so that players can not gain platinum selling them , i know its a pretty rough accusation but there is literally no other valid reason\explanation especially when you compare it with mods and weapons , same goes for the restores. And every time you try to prove me wrong on the subject i will urge you to explain the weapons and the mods being tradeable to me and this being different somehow , and if anyone mentions loyalty i will just post some screenshots of wiping out syndicate death squads with their own signature weapon to point out how much weight loyalty carries in WARFRAME.

P.S. And no it does not "only take time" which is by the way limited daily , because why not , it also takes a considerable amount of rare resources , potatoes , credits , prime parts some of which you actually have to construct , do you really expect people to just throw out such amounts of resources whenever DE decides to add something new to all of the syndicates but does not bother to make it tradable to make everyone happy? Whoever thinks that this is a fair alternative for those who want all of them should get their head checked out , because it seems that once you look into the ear you see light coming out of the other side due to a lack of common sense and respect for the time of those who can support this game financially.

Edited by CR0SSB0NE
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It would be nice if you know this button called the 'Enter' Key (and better use of punctuation), for reading paragraphs that meld into one very long one is a bit sore on the eyes. But anyways: 

 

You can argue that weapons absolutely had to be otherwise the forums would crash due to the amount of "i want my mastery fodder and i want it now" type threads and mods not being tradable would get even worse feedback than weapons , so how is this any different? are you going to say its just an accessory and it does not affect gameplay in any way shape or form? 

There are: 

 

- Exclusive skins for different platforms. 

- Exclusive accessories for a limited time (Mastery Rank Sigils, for one). 

- Exclusive accessories for Prime Access

 

And all of them do not affect gameplay, and are non-tradable as well, since they represent what a player has done, or a milestone that the player has achieved. 

 

To pull a comparison for the Syndicate Syanadas: Runescape's Veteran Cape. Can be obtained after playing for 5 or 10 years (showing commitment to the game, barring not logging in for 5 years [but that generally makes your account be deleted]), is essentially cosmetic, and if you then start asking for that cape to be traded for GP (gold pieces), see how many players would then start to disagree with that. 

 

then why do people even buy accessories or any other customization options in the first place or maybe you will argue that there is an option its just behind an already tall enough grindwall with the added bonus of negative rep on top and the fact that not everyone really likes or agrees with what the syndicates aim is in the games universe but just wants an accessory that they feel would complete their look on a certain frame they may like and lastly , not all of us enjoy farming\grinding when it could've been the same case as it was with syndicate weapons or mods , some of us have things to do other than farm rep , some of us have responsibilities to fulfill and if you say that there's always some "spare time" you can find , i sure as hell don't want to spend it grinding it day after day after day especially if i value my time more than an underage person with more than enough to spare. (not targeted at you) This is a horrible choice and the only reason that comes to mind is that they are not tradable only so that players can not gain platinum selling them , i know its a pretty rough accusation but there is literally no other valid reason\explanation especially when you compare it with mods and weapons , same goes for the restores. 

Reading this chunk of paragraph, this looks like your personal complaint, so I am not going to comment on this. 

 

And every time you try to prove me wrong on the subject i will urge you to explain the weapons and the mods being tradeable to me and this being different somehow , and if anyone mentions loyalty i will just post some screenshots of wiping out syndicate death squads with their own signature weapon to point out how much weight loyalty carries in WARFRAME.

You already answered it yourself: Gameplay mechanics (due to weapons rewarding Mastery Points). 

 

Yes, gameplay mechanics should override logic every now and then, but if possible, logic and lore reasons should work side by side with gameplay. Since Syndicate Syanadas have no effect on gameplay at all, logic and lore reasons (showing loyalty) is valid for this implementation. 

 

P.S. And no it does not "only take time" which is by the way limited daily , because why not , it also takes a considerable amount of rare resources , potatoes , credits , prime parts some of which you actually have to construct , do you really expect people to just throw out such amounts of resources whenever DE decides to add something new to all of the syndicates but does not bother to make it tradable to make everyone happy? Whoever thinks that this is a fair alternative for those who want all of them should get their head checked out , because it seems that once you look into the ear you see light coming out of the other side due to a lack of common sense and respect for the time of those who can support this game financially.

All of which takes time to obtain, so yes, at the end of the day, you are going to need a lot of time to make a negative Syndicate to positive. 

 

And you already have quite a lot that can be traded between Syndicates: Mods and weapons, both of which are pretty important for gameplay (and maybe restores, but I will need to check [and really, Medium Team Restores are cost effective already]). Since Sigils and Syanadas are not all that important for gameplay, then lore reasons can validly be used and thus not allow them to be traded (because it would be rather silly to trade Sigils). 

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Then why not do just that if you want to obtain all the Syanadas? 

 

If you say that, do it.

Like I said its annoying, time consuming and tedious. I dare to bet most people won't use certain syndicate weapons or syandana's for loyalty but rather for aestetics and/or for the sake of owning them all. The game is already grindy as it is. So why not as well make them tradable? Once again whats the harm?

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Like I said its annoying, time consuming and tedious. 

Then that still means you can do it legitimately.

 

I dare to bet most people won't use certain syndicate weapons or syandana's for loyalty but rather for aestetics and/or for the sake of owning them all. 

I also dare to bet that most players would actually care about the Syndicates and loyalty. 

 

Once again whats the harm?

Then it becomes "just another thing to trade" instead of "a symbol that I have worked towards this item, and shows that I have been with this Syndicate for some time". 

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As the syandana are a pure cosmetic it is very different than the arcane helms. The syandana have no stat bonus, they represent the factions to which they belong and display some flavor or element of the faction. They serve a purpose which is to show allegiance. The arcane helms tied stats to cosmetics, these do not. They are one of the few identifying cosmetics outside of mastery sigils or the warframes themselves. If I see you have "that" syandana i know you have aceived the top rank in your syndicate where as if they were traded they would just be fancy scarves or backpacks like the ones in the market. They also cant be gotten with platinum, which is a good thing. Warframe is a real free 2 play, with the trading system you can get platinum for parts or mods and get anything in the market, but platinum will not get you some few things that people have to grind for. In the case of some weapons which were in events and have better stats than those available there is a completely different dynamic in which some players are just S.O.L. (super out of luck) and the event mods some of which are the meta. In those cases i see room for debate, not so with the purely cosmetic. If you want it grind for it and get it, its not imposable to get them all if you must...just a grind.

 

SM >.<  (ranking + in 4 syndicates - in 2) 

 
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Then that still means you can do it legitimately.

 

I also dare to bet that most players would actually care about the Syndicates and loyalty. 

 

Then it becomes "just another thing to trade" instead of "a symbol that I have worked towards this item, and shows that I have been with this Syndicate for some time". 

 

Worked toward the item? All you need to do is spend mindless amount of hours and you have it. Don't we have enough grind in this game? If its actually loyalty based then same same logic should apply to the weapons as well. And they should be removed once you switch you another.

 

Nothing in the syndicate system represents loyalty even if the concept was meant that way. In that case its broken and needs a rework.

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Worked toward the item? All you need to do is spend mindless amount of hours and you have it. Don't we have enough grind in this game? If its actually loyalty based then same same logic should apply to the weapons as well. And they should be removed once you switch you another.

 

Nothing in the syndicate system represents loyalty even if the concept was meant that way. In that case its broken and needs a rework.

 

I agree here, if they really want us to represent loyalty, they give us a better looking one, give us sats for useing it, maybe for ever kill you do with the Hexis you gain their sat proc, like Blight or so. 

 

Right now, the Concept is broken and is poorly executed 

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