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Life Support


geninrising
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With the recent changes to survival spawn rates and Life support tweaks it feels honestly like something is off. Multiple times the last few days we have come to a point where there was not enough life support spawns nor could Nekros even get enough small life supports to keep the group going. This is a Nekros mind you that has a full Desecrate build and previously could keep the party going until we could not kill the enemies.

 

I am unsure what kind of tweak to LS was made but I sincerely feel that you need to iterate exactly what changes you make to these things rather than some ubiquitous comments saying you "tweaked" it.

 

Edit: Recent hotfix adjusted rates for "Easy" survivals and solo runs. This is a nice change but needs to be UNIVERSAL not just for new players and solo runs. It should not matter how you are running the survival or where in order to get a fair deal.

 

What we need is more LS on the ground from the large restore spawns and have Nekros be entirely optional for long runs rather than a necessity.

 

So from, further testing I found that the LS drops from enemies have been reduced as well. This is not acceptable and further emphasizes Nekros' farmer roll. FIX THIS ASAP!

Edited by geninrising
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"What we need is more LS on the ground from the large restore spawns and have Nekros be entirely optional for long runs rather than a necessity."

 

What we did was make Survival runs for players more viable. So: even without a NEKROS, you should be able to do 20 minutes of survival. While for longer missions, you might still need NEKROS.

 

Please post whether your problem was addressed or whether your want more information in general, or whether you miss information about the Survival Game Mode. We took great care to make Survival more accessible to casual players, so we will take all feedback into account.

 

There might be an issue still, where the O² timer gets frozen; please make sure that you mention such cases. We need a large amount of samples to make fair judgment as to possible bugs or just general annoyance, and we need to keep those numbers apart.

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"What we need is more LS on the ground from the large restore spawns and have Nekros be entirely optional for long runs rather than a necessity."

 

What we did was make Survival runs for players more viable. So: even without a NEKROS, you should be able to do 20 minutes of survival. While for longer missions, you might still need NEKROS.

 

Please post whether your problem was addressed or whether your want more information in general, or whether you miss information about the Survival Game Mode. We took great care to make Survival more accessible to casual players, so we will take all feedback into account.

 

There might be an issue still, where the O² timer gets frozen; please make sure that you mention such cases. We need a large amount of samples to make fair judgment as to possible bugs or just general annoyance, and we need to keep those numbers apart.

The entire point is that in every single instance of a long survival there should not NEED to be a Nekros at all. This necessitates a "Farmer" Nekros position and that should NEVER be a thing. There is no way that anyone can justify to me there being a farmer in the party, period. This is an action based 3ps that requires a fast paced style and when even one player is taken out of that loop it is hampering the gameplay of said individual and the potential damage output of the entire party.

 

It is a mistake to force anyone into that role and is highly counter intuitive in the warframe gameplay style. There should not be any frame that is a necessity for any mode. I have the same issues with Vauban and infested and Frost in any defense other than infested.

 

Why this concept has been accepted by players (given the premise touted by DE) that you play how you want in Warframe is beyond me.

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[...]

 

It is a mistake to force anyone into that role and is highly counter intuitive in the warframe gameplay style. There should not be any frame that is a necessity for any mode. I have the same issues with Vauban and infested and Frost in any defense other than infested.

 

Why this concept has been accepted by players (given the premise touted by DE) that you play how you want in Warframe is beyond me.

100% agree. NEKROS is in the survival game so that people play him. Pretty much everyone thinks they know that outside of survival or farming missions they would never bring such a crappy frame.

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I'm a 100% solo player due to lag issues and whatever tweak DE did to survival life support and enemy spawns is making it pretty rough.

 

I've done several survival runs since this update (nothing in the void yet) but low level ones like Apollodorus on Mercury, Arcadia on Mars, Elara on Jupiter, the Mirage quest where you play survival on Calypso and lastly just minutes ago Yemaja on Sedna

 

What I've found is ​enemy spawns are often inconsistent especially in the early part of the level, leaving huge gaps in-between spawns, my first attempt at the Calypso mission I actually had to abort and restart it because enemies literally stopped spawning and on Yemaja I had to use two Life Support capsules before the 5 minute mark because enemies just were just not spawning fast enough nor dropping life support in the quantity I needed. Later in the mission enemies were spawning in decent quantities but did not drop nearly enough life support, I had to extract at 15 minutes with about 30% left after having used all the capsules and none were incoming as of yet.

 

Before the update on all these missions, even sometimes even in T4 void I could support myself almost to the 10 minute mark before even having to think about touching a capsule and rarely to 15 minutes if I got really good life support drops from enemies.

 

I can understand making survival harder as it was pretty easy before as long as you could kill enemies fast enough to get some drops but now as I said it doesn't seem to matter how fast I kill them the drops and the spawns are just seeming too low.

 

I'm definitely going to try more survival today for testing, maybe I've just had some really bad RNG luck. (I hope)

 

Edit: Test of Apollodorus on Mercury - 10 minute mark for first Life Support Capsule (at 5%), 67-68 Life Support dropped from 285 enemies killed.

 

That one seemed about normal for me however enemies still seemed abit inconsistent with their spawn rate.

 

Edit: Another test done, didn't keep exact numbers but it went about the same, less life support dropped but it seemed like enemies spawned more consistently.

Edited by Alzarov
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With the newest tweak to LF, ive been finding it harder to go 20 mins in survivals i use to go to 40 in solo. I, personally, would like to see slightly higher drop rate or slightly higher spawn rate so their are more enemies to kill for the LF to drop. It doesn't need to go back to the way it was but to see it slightly raised would be nice. Thats just my opinion. ill do some more testing to see of maybe im just not killing enough but i usually one shot 90% of the enemies i face until the lv gets higher and the enemies are harder.

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" We took great care to make Survival more accessible to casual players " 

 

I don't see why the life support drops had to be changed though.  If the whole purpose was to break META and allow player new or old to run with what every frame they wish ( or at least with frames that have a decent synergy ), then this "fix" was a fail.   The whole idea of " to improve the inconsistent times of NPC showing up was a bit trivial, at least in my experience with survival.  I have ran this mode time and time again , alone or with a group, and didn't have any major problems learning and adapting to the previous spawn rate.   If some "casual" complained it's because they wanted to go further than their own capabilites let them.  Even I, when I first started, took in all the information from those that I ran with to better myself. 

 

I personally don't like having to take a Nekros into Survival just to surpass a certain point.  I do it with defense and attack frame that are fun to run with , instead of being the " just type 3 " to get through it.

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Before the changes, I could make it at least 30 minutes in survival solo without Nekros, and managing LS in that time was reasonable. Now, if I don't use Nekros, LS is so few and far between that I find myself forced to leave at around 10 minutes. Its not that I'm not killing enemies, the new spawn rates have made finding enemies much better, but they just aren't dropping enough LS to get by. I'm just barely making it from LS drop to LS drop, hovering between 10-20% before I hit it, and I still find myself running down to 0% and forced to leave before the next one drops in time after the 10 min mark, and enemies dropping next to nothing to supplement time between drops.

 

Meanwhile, with Nekros there is no issue at all. I love doing it with Nekros, but I am sure not everyone does, not everyone has Nekros, and it would be nice to be able to manage without a Nekros in party.

Edited by Star
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This is fixed. I am doing 40 minutes plus survivals solo with no issue.

 

It was definitely fixed for solo runs.

 

In co-op mode we went to over 40 without activating a single life support module.

 

Given comments that came in threads after the life support change (before it then got fixed) this is something that needs a massive rebalance, as it was indicated that we are not supposed to run on drops alone.

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Another few runs today T4S and T3S with clan members, no Nekros, still comfortably made it with drops and using life support modules.

 

We ran as 3 players and 4 players.

 

To the OP, you said you found LS was not dropping from your further testing. Did you have any of the testing methods to share?

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Another few runs today T4S and T3S with clan members, no Nekros, still comfortably made it with drops and using life support modules.

 

We ran as 3 players and 4 players.

 

To the OP, you said you found LS was not dropping from your further testing. Did you have any of the testing methods to share?

What I'm talking about is LONG runs not 20-40 min. I want the game mode balanced so that any frames can run it for exceedingly long periods of time as long as they can kill and regain LS either from drops or Spawns. The entire point being that Nekros should NOT figure into LS gains at all otherwise we are doing two things #1 relegating a slot in the squad to a farmer role and #2 taking away a players choice in how they potentially want to play the frame. These things are unacceptable in a  fast paced game like WF and should be fixed to allow more diversity.

 

The testing attempted to make 1 hr 15 times without the use of a Nekros and all 15 times we fell short of that mark sometimes considerably short due to the lack of drops. Additionally on several tests(10) even with a dedicated Nekros we had issues with the enemies not dropping LS for extensive periods despite the constant spam of a Nekros.

Edited by geninrising
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  • 3 weeks later...

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