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Can We Expect To See More Puncture Melee Weapons In The Future?

XxCurtennoxX

By XxCurtennoxX,
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Bibliothekar

Bibliothekar

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Oh, those hand-blade things (I'm German, so I had to dig through pages with Google results about Qatar to see what you're talking about). Would be cool, yes.

Also, I'd like to have a Caestus with thorns (this way I might actually go and use brawler type weapons). Add foot-blades (and switch stance to Sparring) and voilà, you just made two puncture-based melee weapons for the price of one.

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Othergrunty

Othergrunty

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There's quite a lack of Puncture-based melee weapons... Can we ever expect to see spear-type weapons? They'd make the most sense for puncture based weapons, but to be honest i'd probably be happy with any type of new weapon with Puncture. 

Literally....slash...is...everywhere D:

 

I have the feeling that one reason why we don't have a real spear/niganata type weapon in the game yet, which would be ideal for puncture based melee weapons, is because there is no moveset which would actualy fit such a weapon.

 

I don't want to talk bad about what DE's animators and designers have done so far, since they do a really great job, but the polearm moveset is NOT really a polearm moveset! Or at least it's not one in the sense of what is generaly associated with polearms, mainly spears, helbards, niganata, pikes, etc.

 

All these weapons are based around having a single weaponized head on a staff, from pointy spearheads, to blades, to combined forms like on the helbard. Most presentations of combat with polearms involves thrusts or vertical swings and only small or no horizontal arcs.

 

However the "polearm" moveset in Warframe is based around the Orthos which is not really a traditional polearm but a dual bladed staff, which the Tenno even wield more like a staff.

Because of that the polearm moveset involves large horizontal swings and a lot of twirling around, which greatly benefits a staff weapon which has two bladed ends, but doesn't really fit into a thrusting weapon which most polearms are.

 

The Tonbo, which was introduced yesterday, showcases this problem with it's design. It's entirely based around being held in the center, the opposing end to the head is blocked by some bulky material.

This makes it great for twirling it around, since in addition to hitting enemies with the bladed front, you can still hit them with the club like bulk at the end. However as a traditional polearm it's a pretty flawed design.

 

What we have in Warframe currently are not really a staff and polearm moveset, we only have 2 staff movesets (also 4 staff stances therefor). However thrusting weapons like spears would need such a polearm moveset in order to look good. It's hard to imagine how one could apply puncture damage with wide swings. Which is likely the reason for the small amount of puncture based melee weapons in general.

 

So basicly before we could get a spear/lance type weapon in Warframe, DE would need to change the polearm stances into "bladed staff" stances and introduce a proper polearm moveset.

 

Of course some might say that polearms don't really lend themself to looking cool in combat, but chinese Wuxia movies have done well showcase that it's possible. Just take the fight at the beginning of Hero for example.

The only problem would be that thrusting weapons would be problematic when facing hordes of enemies, but perhaps natural punch through (hitting multiple enemies in a row) could balance this out.

Also the problem of the size could be fixed by making them foldable.

Edited by Othergrunty
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flamedance58

flamedance58

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I could see them adding spears and then a new Stance for them involving them. Possibly in the future perhaps?

 

I also checked and we only have 5 Puncture melee weapons o.O I didn't know it was so few.

 

Ceramic & Heat Dagger

Fang & Primed Fang

Halikar

 

Mind you I'm not sure why the Halikar does puncture as it's a throwing mace : / makes more sense for it to be a blunt damage weapon instead.

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Othergrunty

Othergrunty

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Mind you I'm not sure why the Halikar does puncture as it's a throwing mace : / makes more sense for it to be a blunt damage weapon instead.

 

Perhaps DE took inspiration from medieval warhammer which were designed to puncture the armor and helmet of enemies. Since a hammer head allows a lot of kinetic energy to be directed at a small area. The heads of warhammers were usualy not much bigger than the house hold hammers of today, which you use to put in nails. Likewise the other side of their heads were usualy spikes which could be used the same way.

So hammers with small heads are infact piercing weapons.

 

However in video games warhammers often get stupidly big heads (sledge hammers are an obvious inspiration), which would of course spread the kinetic energy over a larger area and make them blunt weapons, similar to clubs and maces. Hence why Fragor is an impact weapon.

 

Like i said, it's just a guess why DE made it a piercing weapon, but it kinda makes sense.

 

Hmm i wonder if a warhammer the size of a Prova would look good with the machete stance?

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Farge

Farge

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Back when Damage 2.0 first came out, the Jaw Sword was Puncture based. Then they changed it to Slash, which was a bit of a shame since it was the only Puncture-based sword. Whatever, I guess it doesn't matter much in the end since it's a rarely-used weapon anyway.

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Archangelzz

Archangelzz

Posted
Posted (edited)

I have the feeling that one reason why we don't have a real spear/niganata type weapon in the game yet, which would be ideal for puncture based melee weapons, is because there is no moveset which would actualy fit such a weapon.

I don't want to talk bad about what DE's animators and designers have done so far, since they do a really great job, but the polearm moveset is NOT really a polearm moveset! Or at least it's not one in the sense of what is generaly associated with polearms, mainly spears, helbards, niganata, pikes, etc.

All these weapons are based around having a single weaponized head on a staff, from pointy spearheads, to blades, to combined forms like on the helbard. Most presentations of combat with polearms involves thrusts or vertical swings and only small or no horizontal arcs.

However the "polearm" moveset in Warframe is based around the Orthos which is not really a traditional polearm but a dual bladed staff, which the Tenno even wield more like a staff.

Because of that the polearm moveset involves large horizontal swings and a lot of twirling around, which greatly benefits a staff weapon which has two bladed ends, but doesn't really fit into a thrusting weapon which most polearms are.

The Tonbo, which was introduced yesterday, showcases this problem with it's design. It's entirely based around being held in the center, the opposing end to the head is blocked by some bulky material.

This makes it great for twirling it around, since in addition to hitting enemies with the bladed front, you can still hit them with the club like bulk at the end. However as a traditional polearm it's a pretty flawed design.

What we have in Warframe currently are not really a staff and polearm moveset, we only have 2 staff movesets (also 4 staff stances therefor). However thrusting weapons like spears would need such a polearm moveset in order to look good. It's hard to imagine how one could apply puncture damage with wide swings. Which is likely the reason for the small amount of puncture based melee weapons in general.

So basicly before we could get a spear/lance type weapon in Warframe, DE would need to change the polearm stances into "bladed staff" stances and introduce a proper polearm moveset.

Of course some might say that polearms don't really lend themself to looking cool in combat, but chinese Wuxia movies have done well showcase that it's possible. Just take the fight at the beginning of Hero for example.

The only problem would be that thrusting weapons would be problematic when facing hordes of enemies, but perhaps natural punch through (hitting multiple enemies in a row) could balance this out.

Also the problem of the size could be fixed by making them foldable.

I think that last issue you talked about with thrusting weapons could be solved with weapons like the

Naginata

which have both a thrusting and slashing edge. And can be used both ways and would add a bit more utility being able to utilize it agaisnt both Grineer and Infested. And would allow to have both puncture combo's for single enemy's and wide slashing combo's for multiple enemies. Edited by Archangelzz
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  • 2 weeks later...
Bloodytaste

Bloodytaste

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Posted

I don't get it... ain't it easy to make "Spear & Glaive" like weapons and stances for it? How about they just give em equaly high slash/puncture dmg, while the Stance decided which kind dmg will apply? So Stances with primaly thrust should do piercing dmg, while a Stance with Swings ans Slashes, as you can guess slash dmg.

 

Also Rapiers would be a good idea.

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