Saryn Discussion

[DALOS]

I'm trying to use saryn again and I'm running into the same problems again. Mainly my beef with this one is venom and contagion but everyone hates contagion.

 

Starting off with venom, I find it rather annoying that you can easily kill the target without hitting a single spore and wasting your energy. Sure I guess it's still useful in high tier missions where enemies aren't one shot kills, but it still bothers me that that is the only situation that warrants use of this power. Even if the range of the spread is decreased as a penalty I will know I'm satisfied that it did something. Also why is it called "Venom" when it transmits a virus instead of poision?

 

How many times have we complained about contagion again? It feels like a lot... Anyways. I'll just toss a few ideas out there for this one.

1) increase status chance.

2) Don't combine with elemental mods, we can all agree that it ruins the ability.

3) Use viral damage instead.

The only one I think is really important is number 2.

 

Let me know what you think of this frame and her powers. The more opinions the better the outcome and the more likely that DE will see this and take a look at her.

[Vargras]

Venom is in an odd spot -- I rarely ever see it used unless the Saryn is using Venom Dose, in which case they are using it, but just on allies. Last time I think Venom ever saw heavy use was when it could spread infinitely and basically ended up on every mob on an entire level.

 

Which was funny but also broken (for obvious reasons).

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

Venom (which should be named Contagion) should have a higher spread radius. Also, melee weapon hits should automatically spread the spores. Also, it should spread indefinitely but have less and less spores per enemy until there was only one. Then it would require precision, but be very rewarding if done well.

Contagion is hard to fix. It's a toxic version of Channeling without the flexibility or additional bonuses. It would need a major addition to make it worthwhile. Perhaps Contagion could come with a complete movement buff to Saryn as well, and have its cost lowered significantly.

Also, Miasma is one of the easiest, yet most boring abilities in the game. It should be a long duration ability (works better with the other skills) that deals a moderate amount of damage with stun every few seconds. So enemies under its affect would constantly be staggered. It would also have a larger range.

Edited March 3, 2015 by (PS4)WiiConquered

[Moasiac]

Venom and Contagion's names should be switched.

 

Aside from that, I think Venom should have a guaranteed (or at least higher) Viral proc on explosion, which might give it some more usability. Or maybe make it so that whenever an enemy is tagged by Venom, whenever it dies, it also releases its spores.

 

Contagion should also either provide a much more significant bonus, or be rebalanced into a multiplicative damage buff. Even with that said however, it relies on you doing melee damage so I doubt it'd be of too much use either way.

Edited March 3, 2015 by Moasiac

[akira_him]

Venom should auto explode when enemy affected is killed

[Vargras]

Venom should auto explode when enemy affected is killed

I think that's how it used to work. Problem was that it quickly began to spread out of control and ended up on every single enemy on the map. It was kinda nuts.

[Buzkyl]

I think that's how it used to work. Problem was that it quickly began to spread out of control and ended up on every single enemy on the map. It was kinda nuts.

 

It was glorious Vargras, those days Saryn could crash PC's in 1 venom spread.

 

 

I wouldn't mind venom being reworked into something similar, being stronger the more it's in play and the more it spreads to victims. But to a certain point.

[Doom_Bunny]

Contagion was only useful when we didn't have the toxic element mods. Now we also have these event mods which simply out do contagion. The ability should just be replaced.

 

Venom, the old version was good however it just needs something to restrain it. Having us shoot the spores before the person dies is a little overboard in containg it.

 

Miasma is powerful but has a short range so it's fine. Then you find corrupt mods (why does transient fortitude exist?) and it becomes even more powerful with massive range.

 

Decoy is great.

Edited March 3, 2015 by Postal_pat

[Bouldershoulder]

Armor.. reducing damage from "venom" spores. I think it's ridiculous.

[taiiat]

- Venom should certainly auto spread on Enemy death.

i wish it would spread a little more viciously. i don't want... CPU binding DoT like we had long ago, but i want more spreading.

- if Contagion had say, some general purpose usefulness such as 'Infested Swarms' that spread and buff Allies while debuffing Enemies, it would be an Ability worth using. i explained that a bit (okay a lot) more in depth here.

- Miasma is half an Ability. it has a little bit of Stun, but not really much of anything.

it's just all Damage. it does nothing but Damage. this out of principle means it's useless.

this isn't a First Person Shooter, all targets don't have 100HP. Abilities that are only about Damage without anything else, go completely unused at medium Level Enemies. people use them just to use up Energy, as that's pretty much all they're good for.

in the past, i've explained my thoughts on Miasma quite a few times, and ways to make it a more useful Ability.

here's just one of those brainstorming sessions.

some of the Damage Abilities have atleast some other thing(s) to make themselves useful. things like Status Stuns aren't reliable (which is another can of worms), but in theory it makes them worth using.

[akira_him]

I forgot to mention, make these two skills finishers damage too, please

[GTG3000]

- Venom should certainly auto spread on Enemy death.

i wish it would spread a little more viciously. i don't want... CPU binding DoT like we had long ago, but i want more spreading.

- if Contagion had say, some general purpose usefulness such as 'Infested Swarms' that spread and buff Allies while debuffing Enemies, it would be an Ability worth using. i explained that a bit (okay a lot) more in depth here.

- Miasma is half an Ability. it has a little bit of Stun, but not really much of anything.

it's just all Damage. it does nothing but Damage. this out of principle means it's useless.

this isn't a First Person Shooter, all targets don't have 100HP. Abilities that are only about Damage without anything else, go completely unused at medium Level Enemies. people use them just to use up Energy, as that's pretty much all they're good for.

in the past, i've explained my thoughts on Miasma quite a few times, and ways to make it a more useful Ability.

here's just one of those brainstorming sessions.

some of the Damage Abilities have atleast some other thing(s) to make themselves useful. things like Status Stuns aren't reliable (which is another can of worms), but in theory it makes them worth using.

 

With how venom is working currently (eg, limited amount of spores per enemy in fixed places), it wouldn't actually affect performance that much if DE changed them to "spread on death" and "spread same spores as initial". I certainly think that all the spores created by spreading should act exactly as the spores created by ability, though the spreading mechanism needs some tweaking.

 

I certainly enjoy playing a tanky saryn against mid-level (30 and up) enemies, but she does need a bit of work.

 

I'd propose to have contagion to be reworked to be a toggle ability, building up stacks every second you're not using your melee and then dealing... I don't know, 20/25/30/35% additional damage per stack in a small AoE blast?

 

I'd also like to see Miasma gain utility of popping the venom spores every tick. Coupled with "every spore can spread just lke the first one", it would be quite useful.

[JakeRobber]

- Miasma is half an Ability. it has a little bit of Stun, but not really much of anything.

it's just all Damage. it does nothing but Damage. this out of principle means it's useless.

this isn't a First Person Shooter, all targets don't have 100HP. Abilities that are only about Damage without anything else, go completely unused at medium Level Enemies. people use them just to use up Energy, as that's pretty much all they're good for.

 

I'm not saying you should do this... But spamming Miasma will always do tons of damage.  I don't care if enemies are level 100+, Miasma is still outdamaging weapons when it comes to groups of enemies.  The numbers won't be bigger than say a Penta, but Penta isn't as spamable, nor does it have the radius.  Negative duration makes this ability just ridiculous.  Just because it stops one-shotting at a certain point doesn't mean the damage is low.

 

People play Saryn for a reason, and it's to min-max this stupid, very powerful ability.

[taiiat]

-snip-

only due to completely f...ed math on the Ability that doesn't work right with reduced Duration.

it's such a quick one day fix, i don't know why that arse f...ed math hasn't been fixed yet so the Ability works in a way that makes sense.

and it's still not useful once it stops wiping all of the Enemies. hitting a large group of Enemies doesn't compensate for that.

because if that were true, Ignis would be a Meta Weapon.

Damage in Warframe stops being useful as soon as it stops wiping the Enemies.

if you're talking about AFKfarming however, this conversation is over.

[GTG3000]

I'm not saying you should do this... But spamming Miasma will always do tons of damage.  I don't care if enemies are level 100+, Miasma is still outdamaging weapons when it comes to groups of enemies.  The numbers won't be bigger than say a Penta, but Penta isn't as spamable, nor does it have the radius.  Negative duration makes this ability just ridiculous.  Just because it stops one-shotting at a certain point doesn't mean the damage is low.

 

People play Saryn for a reason, and it's to min-max this stupid, very powerful ability.

 

Well I know I play Saryn for regen moult tanking (since I find 4-spam boring).

 

 

only due to completely f...ed math on the Ability that doesn't work right with reduced Duration.

it's such a quick one day fix, i don't know why that arse f...ed math hasn't been fixed yet so the Ability works in a way that makes sense.

and it's still not useful once it stops wiping all of the Enemies. hitting a large group of Enemies doesn't compensate for that.

because if that were true, Ignis would be a Meta Weapon.

Damage in Warframe stops being useful as soon as it stops wiping the Enemies.

if you're talking about AFKfarming however, this conversation is over.

 

It still disables them briefly, doesn't it? And ignis doesn't do that (nor does it have that much range or damage). Still, I'd vote for more interesting mechanics rather than just saying that frame is fine because damages.

[DALOS]

Venom (which should be named Contagion) should have a higher spread radius. Also, melee weapon hits should automatically spread the spores. Also, it should spread indefinitely but have less and less spores per enemy until there was only one. Then it would require precision, but be very rewarding if done well.

Contagion is hard to fix. It's a toxic version of Channeling without the flexibility or additional bonuses. It would need a major addition to make it worthwhile. Perhaps Contagion could come with a complete movement buff to Saryn as well, and have its cost lowered significantly.

Also, Miasma is one of the easiest, yet most boring abilities in the game. It should be a long duration ability (works better with the other skills) that deals a moderate amount of damage with stun every few seconds. So enemies under its affect would constantly be staggered. It would also have a larger range.

normally I'm not on the side of "Get rid of press 4 to win" cause it's fun to be overpoweringly awesome but you have a point. why bother useing contagion when you can use miasma?

[DALOS]

I think that's how it used to work. Problem was that it quickly began to spread out of control and ended up on every single enemy on the map. It was kinda nuts.

like I said, give a reduced radius for auto hits.

[taiiat]

And ignis doesn't do that (nor does it have that much range or damage).

well, Ignis doesn't have a scripted Stun, no.

but Ignis can hit just about every single Enemy in say, a Defense Wave, at the same time.

between Heavy Caliber, Firestorm, and Sinister Reach, you can hit basically everything on the map.

but Ignis is still not very good.

same deal applies to anything else in that boat. as Damage only determines what Level you stop playing easymode.

[(PSN)JiggaJazz]

nothing against saryn players but considering molt and miasma are her only good abilities and molt loses a lot of utility when using the miasma build i dont really why people like her.

 

hell i like other frames than her for t4 ext and thats probably her most useful mission

[GTG3000]

well, Ignis doesn't have a scripted Stun, no.

but Ignis can hit just about every single Enemy in say, a Defense Wave, at the same time.

between Heavy Caliber, Firestorm, and Sinister Reach, you can hit basically everything on the map.

but Ignis is still not very good.

same deal applies to anything else in that boat. as Damage only determines what Level you stop playing easymode.

 

Well, that's really a problem with how challenge ramps up in this game, and how the 'endgame' is getting your killing potential to ludicrous levels.

 

 

nothing against saryn players but considering molt and miasma are her only good abilities and molt loses a lot of utility when using the miasma build i dont really why people like her.

 

hell i like other frames than her for t4 ext and thats probably her most useful mission

 

Her Venom is rather useful too, for it's viral proc that you can give to basically a crowd at a time. And, Saryn is more fun to play without building her for max damage/for T4 endless missions. But that would assume that some people here actually play for fun.

[Soup2504]

Venom is in an odd spot -- I rarely ever see it used unless the Saryn is using Venom Dose, in which case they are using it, but just on allies.

I still use venom fairly often (without venom dose. Haven't touched that mod and I also don't care about it). I run minimum duration saryn, and venom still works out for me (as well as molt with regenerative molt). The fun thing about venom is that when the spores spread, they all get their own separate duration. So I enjoy using it because it's basically an on demand aoe (slightly inconsistent but still serviceable)viral proc . Really useful in long survivals. My transient fortitude still has 3 or 2 ranks till its maxed though... Wonder how much that would affect my venom duration.

That said, I'd be cool with any sort of buff to the ability (or her abilities besides miasma in general). It could be better, but it still works well as of now.