Should Syndicate Weapons Be So Powerful?

[Magneu]

As a playerbase most people expect the syndicate sidearms, and soon to be primary/melee weapons to be very strong for their rank 5, 100k standing price. But do these weapons really need to be so strong?

 

Although there are outliers in both directions, syndicate weapons as a whole tend to be very strong (Rakta, Synoid, Vaykor, Telos, these come to mind first). In addition to high burst and sustained DPS, these weapons have an innate 1k damage radial effect for 25 meters, with a guaranteed status proc. Don't get me wrong, I love my Telos/Vaykor/Rakta, but sometimes I feel like they push me away from other weapons: I'd love to use my Vasto Prime or Mara Detron...but with my Vaykor I can lay down more damage, stun/kill enemies in a 25 meter radius fairly often, heal myself, and self buff my armor. 

 

In all honesty, either the damage of syndicate weapons should be on par with Prime, or the radial effect should be toned down. A guaranteed status proc alone would be perfect; 25 meter stun open to finishers? 25 meter magnetic proc on high level corpus? 25 meter viral proc versus...anything? As is, accounting weaknesses, you have a tack on affect to your sidearm that surpasses many frames ultimate moves; the Vaykor has a Rhino Stomp built in with higher damage and a shorter stun (opens enemies to melee finishers)...for free. All you have to do is participate.

 

All in all, syndicate weapons seem like one of the biggest offenders of power creep to me; similar to Mutalist Moa's, they just do too much.

[Archistopheles]

All in all, syndicate weapons seem like one of the biggest offenders of power creep to me;

Still not as OP as pre-nerf Acrid.

[AdunSaveMe]

Still not as OP as pre-nerf Acrid.

pre-nerf acrid must have been unimaginably amazing for them to nerf it so hard it literally vanishes from the playerbase

[(PSN)jFresh215]

don't forget that you have to be MR 6 to obtain these weapons. yes they are strong, synoid being possibly the strongest in game, but there is a bunch of time and resources gone into getting them. it has to be worth it. they did nerf the buffs from the effects and that is a noticeable change. 

[Archistopheles]

pre-nerf acrid must have been unimaginably amazing for them to nerf it so hard it literally vanishes from the playerbase

Armor ignoring DoT that scaled off all elemental damage? Oh yeah... It was hit so hard, Hayden Tenno felt it.

[Jax_Cavalera]

How about if instead they release syndicate weapons such as Syanoid Beating Stick which is a fashioned piece of wood you throw at enemies.  It has a 100% splinter proc which causes hurt enemies to sob for a moment before thrashing you with their LVL 150 Karak in a single shot.

 

Yeah player weapons may be strong but enemy ones are stronger.  This can be hard to imagine unless you have gone up against a T4 Bombard inside a Nullifier Bubble on wave 40+ Defense

 

Things are fine really if anything we need more strong weapons to that standard to deal with the enemies we are facing.

Edited March 4, 2015 by Jax_Cavalera

[Cpl_Facehugger]

As a playerbase most people expect the syndicate sidearms, and soon to be primary/melee weapons to be very strong for their rank 5, 100k standing price. But do these weapons really need to be so strong?

 

Bluntly? Yes. We're talking about syndicate rank 5 exclusives that cost 100k standing just to acquire. They take even longer to acquire than prime parts once you factor in the need to rank up the syndicate too.

 

These things are some of the hardest things to acquire in the game. They need to be very powerful to be worth the effort. A mere sidegrade from an existing weapon will just see people passing on them, for the same reason that a lot of weapon augments (eg stinging truth) don't get used.

Edited March 4, 2015 by Cpl_Facehugger

[Kestral9999]

The only defense I can offer for why Syndicate weapons are so powerful is that they are some of the only weapons that require a lot of work and a decent amount of time to obtain. Not to mention you have to sacrifice a lot of credits, standing, and prime parts to get to the point that you can attain all of them.

 

But then there's the option to buy them with plat, which both negates all of the points I made, and raises the point that these weapons have to be worth buying to warrant the option to buy them in the first place.

Edited March 4, 2015 by Kestral9999

[MegpoidBeetle]

The only defense I can offer for why Syndicate weapons are so powerful is that they are some of the only weapons that require a lot of work and a decent amount of time to obtain. Not to mention you have to sacrifice a lot of credits and prime parts to get to the point that you can attain all of them.

 

But then there's the option to buy them with plat, which both negates all of the points I made, and raises the point that these weapons have to be worth buying to warrant the option to buy them in the first place.

 

Don't forget that making them tradeable sorta ruins the whole point of being loyal and dedicated to that particular syndicate.

[Cpl_Facehugger]

The only defense I can offer for why Syndicate weapons are so powerful is that they are some of the only weapons that require a lot of work and a decent amount of time to obtain. Not to mention you have to sacrifice a lot of credits, standing, and prime parts to get to the point that you can attain all of them.

 

But then there's the option to buy them with plat, which both negates all of the points I made, and raises the point that these weapons have to be worth buying to warrant the option to buy them in the first place.

 

The thing with buying stuff with plat is that it applies to nearly every weapon in the game one way or another. You can't acquire certain garbage alert weapons via plat and you can't get the brakk or normal detron via plat, but pretty much every other weapon can be purchased either from trade chat or from the market itself.

 

Don't forget that making them tradeable sorta ruins the whole point of being loyal and dedicated to that particular syndicate.

That's that the untradable syndanas and sigils are for.

Edited March 4, 2015 by Cpl_Facehugger

[OniDax]

As a playerbase most people expect the syndicate sidearms, and soon to be primary/melee weapons to be very strong for their rank 5, 100k standing price. But do these weapons really need to be so strong?

 

Although there are outliers in both directions, syndicate weapons as a whole tend to be very strong (Rakta, Synoid, Vaykor, Telos, these come to mind first). In addition to high burst and sustained DPS, these weapons have an innate 1k damage radial effect for 25 meters, with a guaranteed status proc. Don't get me wrong, I love my Telos/Vaykor/Rakta, but sometimes I feel like they push me away from other weapons: I'd love to use my Vasto Prime or Mara Detron...but with my Vaykor I can lay down more damage, stun/kill enemies in a 25 meter radius fairly often, heal myself, and self buff my armor. 

 

In all honesty, either the damage of syndicate weapons should be on par with Prime, or the radial effect should be toned down. A guaranteed status proc alone would be perfect; 25 meter stun open to finishers? 25 meter magnetic proc on high level corpus? 25 meter viral proc versus...anything? As is, accounting weaknesses, you have a tack on affect to your sidearm that surpasses many frames ultimate moves; the Vaykor has a Rhino Stomp built in with higher damage and a shorter stun (opens enemies to melee finishers)...for free. All you have to do is participate.

 

All in all, syndicate weapons seem like one of the biggest offenders of power creep to me; similar to Mutalist Moa's, they just do too much.

 

Syndicate weapons are just fine! Don't like them? Don't use them. You want to underpower them? Take the mods off.

How about if instead they release syndicate weapons such as Syanoid Beating Stick which is a fashioned piece of wood you throw at enemies.  It has a 100% splinter proc which causes hurt enemies to sob for a moment before thrashing you with their LVL 150 Karak in a single shot.

 

Yeah player weapons may be strong but enemy ones are stronger.  This can be hard to imagine unless you have gone up against a T4 Bombard inside a Nullifier Bubble on wave 40+ Defense

 

Things are fine really if anything we need more strong weapons to that standard to deal with the enemies we are facing.

 

^This guy gets it.

Edited March 4, 2015 by AntoineFlemming

[BabyKurama]

[MegpoidBeetle]

 

That's that the untradable syndanas and sigils are for.

Oh right totally forgot about those, better go polish my Vaykor syandana then

[Magneu]

How about if instead they release syndicate weapons such as Syanoid Beating Stick which is a fashioned piece of wood you throw at enemies.  It has a 100% splinter proc which causes hurt enemies to sob for a moment before thrashing you with their LVL 150 Karak in a single shot.

 

Yeah player weapons may be strong but enemy ones are stronger.  This can be hard to imagine unless you have gone up against a T4 Bombard inside a Nullifier Bubble on wave 40+ Defense

 

Things are fine really if anything we need more strong weapons to that standard to deal with the enemies we are facing.

Done hour plus T4S and 60 wave T4D, thanks. Used a Prisma Gorgon and Vaykor for both, as the Synoid is incredibly dull. Thanks for assuming that because I think some weapons are too strong I must have never used them at high levels.

[Magneu]

The whole point of this post is the weapons should have the damage or the effect...not both. Having a built in ultimate move with bonus effects is way too much for the damage they do.

[HibikiGanaha]

I think they are strong, but they are also limited.

 

You can't choose when to use them, they have an innate cooldown, and the range can't be modified like abilities can.

[Magneu]

I think they are strong, but they are also limited.

 

You can't choose when to use them, they have an innate cooldown, and the range can't be modified like abilities can.

Realistically speaking, in anything over level 40 the effect is going to go off (including cooldowns) every 20 seconds or so with a good team. 25 meters is a pretty good range too, more than Miasma with a Stretch.

[Shreiko]

WIth those offerings and the amount of standing being poured into acquiring them I'm pretty sure I wont level up any other faction after arbiters and suda

[OniDax]

The whole point of this post is the weapons should have the damage or the effect...not both. Having a built in ultimate move with bonus effects is way too much for the damage they do.

 

No, it's not too much.

[Kestral9999]

Don't forget that making them tradeable sorta ruins the whole point of being loyal and dedicated to that particular syndicate.

But at the same time it opens up the ability to become a tradesman for a specific faction. Pretty cool in my eyes.

[EchoesOfRain]

While I absolutely LOVE my Synoid Gammacor, It really might be a bit OP. I've forma'd mine several times and will use it over any of my primaries any day. If Syndicates had powerful primaries, I'd be perfectly fine with a nerf to the secondaries though

[ra9una]

Yes. I feel that they should be something to be excited about, since they are a way for your personally angle on warframe (syndicate choice) to bleed into gameplay. Even if, they are a bit over the top.

[Magneu]

Yes. I feel that they should be something to be excited about, since they are a way for your personally angle on warframe (syndicate choice) to bleed into gameplay. Even if, they are a bit over the top.

I do agree with the sentiment that your syndicate choice reflects your ideals/support, but I'm fairly certain if we pulled up a chart comparing usage of syndicate weapons (to say nothing of all secondaries), the Synoid would be first by a massive margin, followed by the Vaykor not (too) far behind (arguably a much more skill based weapon anyway), possibly the Telos, the Rakta quickly gaining popularity cause "OMG DPS", Sanctii and in dead last the Secura (max ammo buff please DE). People gravitate towards bigger number weapons for a variety of reasons, but when a huge margin of people go after one weapon, it says something about power imbalance.

 

Personally I use the Telos the most cause it's pirate time with Hydroid, full auto macro shreds heavies, and it's damage per shot is still respectable (it also feels like guns I've actually shot, instead of a laser pointer). If the Synoid literally cut away parts of enemies it hit, I would be much more inclined to use it.

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

How about if instead they release syndicate weapons such as Syanoid Beating Stick which is a fashioned piece of wood you throw at enemies.  It has a 100% splinter proc which causes hurt enemies to sob for a moment before thrashing you with their LVL 150 Karak in a single shot.

 

Yeah player weapons may be strong but enemy ones are stronger.  This can be hard to imagine unless you have gone up against a T4 Bombard inside a Nullifier Bubble on wave 40+ Defense

 

Things are fine really if anything we need more strong weapons to that standard to deal with the enemies we are facing.

I think you have it backwards. We need weapons that offer us a challenge without having to be 40 waves into the toughest missions to get it.

[Taaow]

Still not as OP as pre-nerf Acrid.

 

How I miss my old acrid.  All the stalkers we vaporized into green slush...good times.