Should Syndicate Weapons Be So Powerful?

[Xana_Skullsunder]

Syndicate weapons are just fine! Don't like them? Don't use them. You want to underpower them? Take the mods off.

 

This statement is dumb. It was dumb the first time it was said, it's dumb now, and it will continue to be dumb in the future.

 

Even if he doesn't use them, everyone else does. Not using them himself does not magically make the problem go away.

[Magneu]

This statement is dumb. It was dumb the first time it was said, it's dumb now, and it will continue to be dumb in the future.

 

Even if he doesn't use them, everyone else does. Not using them himself does not magically make the problem go away.

Totally agree. Just cause I wanted to run with a handcannon for a mission shouldn't gimp me, as some Vanguard-Rush-Rhino Prime sweeps a laser pointer across the screen and kills everything in front of us. The only way most people can compete with a modestly formaed Synoid is either max forma weapons, or obscene reaction times and ability to snap off shots. Even then, the Synoid player holds down LMB for 15 seconds straight (with both max Lethal Torrent and Anemic Agility for maximum DPS) and sweeps his cursor (although this only applies up to a certain level).

[OniDax]

This statement is dumb. It was dumb the first time it was said, it's dumb now, and it will continue to be dumb in the future.

 

Even if he doesn't use them, everyone else does. Not using them himself does not magically make the problem go away.

What problem? There is no problem.

[AlphaHorseman]

This statement is dumb. It was dumb the first time it was said, it's dumb now, and it will continue to be dumb in the future.

 

Even if he doesn't use them, everyone else does. Not using them himself does not magically make the problem go away.

Actually it's quite accurate.

 

You don't have to use the weapons if you do not want to. The option is their for you to use them or not. You also have the option to use other weapons in your arsenal. Simply choosing to ignore the fact that you yourself decide how to play the game isn't a means to nerf a weapon, nor any other content in the game.

 

If you don't like it, do not use it. There is no actual true problem, you yourself may have a subjective problem with people using a weapon you do not like, but that does not mean that this weapon should be changed just because you do not like it.

 

For the high amounts of standing, credits, prime parts, and sacrifices we make to the syndicates, the power of these weapons is very justifiable.

[(PSN)MrNishi]

As a playerbase most people expect the syndicate sidearms, and soon to be primary/melee weapons to be very strong for their rank 5, 100k standing price. But do these weapons really need to be so strong?

Although there are outliers in both directions, syndicate weapons as a whole tend to be very strong (Rakta, Synoid, Vaykor, Telos, these come to mind first). In addition to high burst and sustained DPS, these weapons have an innate 1k damage radial effect for 25 meters, with a guaranteed status proc. Don't get me wrong, I love my Telos/Vaykor/Rakta, but sometimes I feel like they push me away from other weapons: I'd love to use my Vasto Prime or Mara Detron...but with my Vaykor I can lay down more damage, stun/kill enemies in a 25 meter radius fairly often, heal myself, and self buff my armor.

In all honesty, either the damage of syndicate weapons should be on par with Prime, or the radial effect should be toned down. A guaranteed status proc alone would be perfect; 25 meter stun open to finishers? 25 meter magnetic proc on high level corpus? 25 meter viral proc versus...anything? As is, accounting weaknesses, you have a tack on affect to your sidearm that surpasses many frames ultimate moves; the Vaykor has a Rhino Stomp built in with higher damage and a shorter stun (opens enemies to melee finishers)...for free. All you have to do is participate.

All in all, syndicate weapons seem like one of the biggest offenders of power creep to me; similar to Mutalist Moa's, they just do too much.

I think you mean the Vaykor (Justice Proc) has a 25meter Paralysis, not Rhino Stomp.

-Paralysis is the same 4-sec stun with finisher prompt but only over 10m base range.(14.5m w/Stretch; 19m w/Overextended; 23.5m w/Stretch+Overextended)

I think the Syndicate Weapons are fine aside from low Mastery Rank requirement in respect to other Secondary weapons. Embolist is MR8, so 8 or higher would make sense.

Personally I don't use any of my Syndicate Weapons....I use Spectra with Syndicate Mod though.

-Extra Range (35m vs 15m base)

-25m AoE Radiation Process

-Fits my Kara Paralysis theme build (Extra Shields for damage and regen; Corpus weaponry Obex/Spectra/Opticor..battery pack firearms)

Sancti Castans are great weapons as well.

-Especially against new infested (Stun plus built in Corrosive for Swarm armor)

-Radial Disram Loki or Vauban builds are great for Sancti Castanas

Secura Dual Cestra are good stats may look low but they have sheer quantity of projectiles per second to increase crit/status proca with spool up. I don't use them because of awkward reserve ammo, cannot use Shock Camp, and I can use my Spectra with same Sequence process.

If they end up releasing more Syndicate weapon mods for more weapons, there is a good chance a Prime Side-arm could surpass a Syndicate Secondary. (Akbronco Primes with 300% Reload speed and Choose a Syndicate Process, or Lex Prime with 200% crit chance(like the Grinlok mod), Or Bronco/Hikou Prime with 300% mutlishot; only time will tell.)

Edited March 6, 2015 by (PS4)MrNishi

[CrazyCatLad]

don't forget that you have to be MR 6 to obtain these weapons. yes they are strong, synoid being possibly the strongest in game, but there is a bunch of time and resources gone into getting them. it has to be worth it. they did nerf the buffs from the effects and that is a noticeable change. 

Gammacor (and Quanta for that matter) were designed for mining and "Designed to quickly vaporize minerals for content analysis.'  It is kind of depressing that non-guns are stronger than guns.

[Idiocy]

Gammacor (and Quanta for that matter) were designed for mining and "Designed to quickly vaporize minerals for content analysis.'  It is kind of depressing that non-guns are stronger than guns.

 

If jury rigged mining tools used as weapons are good enough for Isaac Clarke, they're good enough for me!

[CrazyCatLad]

If jury rigged mining tools used as weapons are good enough for Isaac Clarke, they're good enough for me!

Oh I love the Quanta...I just wish I had the confidence to bring the Braton Prime with me on a T3/T4 45 minute Solo Survival.  Once I get another Forma or two in it, I might try it but I doubt it'll ever surpass my quanta.

[W4RM3CH4N1C]

Up the required MR rank to use, and totally agree with OP +1000 DE need to stop power creeping, when one weapon makes you choose it over all others for convenience you know you done gone made a bad weapon.

 

For those who give the usual BS response of "don't use it", it's almost like a child literally putting their fingers in their ears and then proceeding to shout "blah blah blah i can't hear you"

 

You're completely missing the point and the innate affect it will have over the long term player base. The issue that if someone new to the game asks what's the most OP gun people are going to say something like the Gammacor/Boltor etc etc they then obtain the aforementioned gun for literally like 30-50 plat, they then proceed to use weapon for most of the game - the rest become mastery fodder and the player burns out, community doesn't have so much longevity or people who have invested time to want to continue with the game....

 

Not a good outcome for the game, and not agood for all those other weapons which are a whole lot more fun but can't quite get the job done (by comparison) either unmodded or late game

 

FYI, i'm very much the purveyor of "underdog" weapons, i often take things like braton primes, supra's etc rather than typical boltors/soma's etc because i enjoy using something different and seeing a bit of diversity on the battlefield.

 

W4R

[W4RM3CH4N1C]

Actually it's quite accurate.

 

You don't have to use the weapons if you do not want to. The option is their for you to use them or not. You also have the option to use other weapons in your arsenal. Simply choosing to ignore the fact that you yourself decide how to play the game isn't a means to nerf a weapon, nor any other content in the game.

 

If you don't like it, do not use it. There is no actual true problem, you yourself may have a subjective problem with people using a weapon you do not like, but that does not mean that this weapon should be changed just because you do not like it.

 

For the high amounts of standing, credits, prime parts, and sacrifices we make to the syndicates, the power of these weapons is very justifiable.

 

2nd facepalm of this thread....

 

30-50 plat is hardly hard work

 

The problem exists, you just not "feeling" it yet, denying or ignoring doesnt make it go away or any less of a problem in the long term

[Kestral9999]

If jury rigged mining tools used as weapons are good enough for Isaac Clarke, they're good enough for me!

I want this on a T-shirt.

[Kestral9999]

I honestly believe they need to remove the ability to trade syndicate weapons for plat. I'm sick of seeing low MR players running Synoid, knowing full well they likely won't ever pick up another secondary until one eventually outperforms it (ye gods). Or, DE decides to nerf it, of course.

 

Sort of contradictory to what I said earlier, but so it goes.

[AlphaHorseman]

2nd facepalm of this thread....

 

30-50 plat is hardly hard work

 

The problem exists, you just not "feeling" it yet, denying or ignoring doesnt make it go away or any less of a problem in the long term

But you know what is hard work?

 

Sacrificing time, credits, and built prime parts to the syndicates. That includes resources, since we're sacrificing prime parts as well. You have to realize that these things are stuck behind a massive grind wall, which justifies the power that they have. It takes a load of standing to just reach the point to be able to buy these weapons, and a lot as well to actually buy them. They're a huge investment, and they should have the power they possess because of it. Not all of us run those rep farming squads, some of us actually do enjoy and play the game, and it isn't that fast to get the rewards.

 

Their trade-ability is only a small dimension, it isn't even an issue. The price of the weapon is dependent on who is selling it. So please, their power is not an actual problem, not in any sense, it's the fact that the low mastery rank and the trade-able nature of these items is something some people do not like. 

[Magneu]

But you know what is hard work?

 

Sacrificing time, credits, and built prime parts to the syndicates. That includes resources, since we're sacrificing prime parts as well. You have to realize that these things are stuck behind a massive grind wall, which justifies the power that they have. It takes a load of standing to just reach the point to be able to buy these weapons, and a lot as well to actually buy them. They're a huge investment, and they should have the power they possess because of it. Not all of us run those rep farming squads, some of us actually do enjoy and play the game, and it isn't that fast to get the rewards.

 

Their trade-ability is only a small dimension, it isn't even an issue. The price of the weapon is dependent on who is selling it. So please, their power is not an actual problem, not in any sense, it's the fact that the low mastery rank and the trade-able nature of these items is something some people do not like. 

Hard work? Rep is easily obtained by simply playing the game with a sigil equipped. Your time to 100k at rank 5 is halved simply by running your dailies and finding medallions too (although there is some RNg with what medallions you get). The only hard part to grind is credits and rare prime parts (and you can buy those parts off of players). Even then, high level Dark Sectors or Voids are quite easy to get credits from, especially if you have a credit booster. I maxed my 19k standing for the day in a single roughly 20-30 minute run of Triton (thank you based Mag Prime).

 

In addition ALL of these grindwalls are bypassed if you simply trade with the guy who maxed his syndicate weeks ago and just buys weapons, sells them, rinse and repeat. 

[Magneu]

I think you mean the Vaykor (Justice Proc) has a 25meter Paralysis, not Rhino Stomp.

-Paralysis is the same 4-sec stun with finisher prompt but only over 10m base range.(14.5m w/Stretch; 19m w/Overextended; 23.5m w/Stretch+Overextended)

I think the Syndicate Weapons are fine aside from low Mastery Rank requirement in respect to other Secondary weapons. Embolist is MR8, so 8 or higher would make sense.

Personally I don't use any of my Syndicate Weapons....I use Spectra with Syndicate Mod though.

-Extra Range (35m vs 15m base)

-25m AoE Radiation Process

-Fits my Kara Paralysis theme build (Extra Shields for damage and regen; Corpus weaponry Obex/Spectra/Opticor..battery pack firearms)

Sancti Castans are great weapons as well.

-Especially against new infested (Stun plus built in Corrosive for Swarm armor)

-Radial Disram Loki or Vauban builds are great for Sancti Castanas

Secura Dual Cestra are good stats may look low but they have sheer quantity of projectiles per second to increase crit/status proca with spool up. I don't use them because of awkward reserve ammo, cannot use Shock Camp, and I can use my Spectra with same Sequence process.

If they end up releasing more Syndicate weapon mods for more weapons, there is a good chance a Prime Side-arm could surpass a Syndicate Secondary. (Akbronco Primes with 300% Reload speed and Choose a Syndicate Process, or Lex Prime with 200% crit chance(like the Grinlok mod), Or Bronco/Hikou Prime with 300% mutlishot; only time will tell.)

Let's hope we don't get useless augment mods; I would love more mods for Prime/high end weaponry to push them just a little further; crit damage+ for Lex Prime would cement its place over the Vaykor in my book. 

[AlphaHorseman]

Hard work? Rep is easily obtained by simply playing the game with a sigil equipped. Your time to 100k at rank 5 is halved simply by running your dailies and finding medallions too (although there is some RNg with what medallions you get). The only hard part to grind is credits and rare prime parts (and you can buy those parts off of players). Even then, high level Dark Sectors or Voids are quite easy to get credits from, especially if you have a credit booster. I maxed my 19k standing for the day in a single roughly 20-30 minute run of Triton (thank you based Mag Prime).

 

In addition ALL of these grindwalls are bypassed if you simply trade with the guy who maxed his syndicate weeks ago and just buys weapons, sells them, rinse and repeat. 

You assume that players have the play to trade these prime parts. They still need to build these parts, and those still cost credits and resources. Again, not everyone goes on farming runs. If your foremost goal is getting those weapons, then sure, run the farming maps like how you did. But some of us actually do play the game for other purposes. There's also taxes on the DS missions, and depending on the Clan/Alliance you're subject to pay tribute to, it isn't always so easy.

 

In addition, NONE of these grind walls are bypassed in obtaining these weapons, as a player actually does have to go through all the levels and reach the highest tier in that syndicate to get those weapons. They can be traded, yes, but no syndicate weapon in the game has ever been obtained just for free, someone had to go through all that hard work to get that weapon.

[vaugahn]

They should be a combination of sidegrade and upgrade.

Enough of an upgrade that people want to work towards them and if you have the syndicate version there's no reason to have the original, but not so powerful as to totally overshadow the base variant, or overshadow weapons in general.

They should also have a slightly different model, just to further emphasize their rare reward-ness.

Edited March 6, 2015 by vaugahn

[HibikiGanaha]

Realistically speaking, in anything over level 40 the effect is going to go off (including cooldowns) every 20 seconds or so with a good team. 25 meters is a pretty good range too, more than Miasma with a Stretch.

I don't see why you are comparing them to miasma.  Miasma does like 5000 damage per cast, has a stun, and can be cast any time you want.

[Magneu]

You assume that players have the play to trade these prime parts. They still need to build these parts, and those still cost credits and resources. Again, not everyone goes on farming runs. If your foremost goal is getting those weapons, then sure, run the farming maps like how you did. But some of us actually do play the game for other purposes. There's also taxes on the DS missions, and depending on the Clan/Alliance you're subject to pay tribute to, it isn't always so easy.

 

In addition, NONE of these grind walls are bypassed in obtaining these weapons, as a player actually does have to go through all the levels and reach the highest tier in that syndicate to get those weapons. They can be traded, yes, but no syndicate weapon in the game has ever been obtained just for free, someone had to go through all that hard work to get that weapon.

I was on Triton to get R5 cores and got standing as a result of playing; sounds like non rep farm to me. In addition, your second statement makes no sense; every grindwall is passed when someone gives DE $5 for 75 plat, then buys a Vaykor/Synoid for the going price of 40-60p. No rep farm, no prime parts, no credits, no resources. They just bypassed every syndicate grindwall for that end reward. 

 

And if someone doesn't have the resources to build a single prime part (which by the way only applies on rank 4 to 5 tribute), that's not really an excuse; it's not very hard to find 1-2 Neural Sensors, or the cheap credit cost, etc. 

 

Yes, someone had to grind out rep to get that weapon; the problem is, when someone hits rank 5 and maxes standing...what do they buy? Already got Syanana, stocked up on keys, got specters, restores...guess I'll buy the weapon and put it on the market over and over. The supply is roughly equal to the demand in this scenario, which is why the weapons aren't in the multi hundred plat range.

 

They should be a combination of sidegrade and upgrade.

Enough of an upgrade that people want to work towards them and if you have the syndicate version there's no reason to have the original, but not so powerful as to totally overshadow the bass variant, or overshadow weapons in general.

They should also have a slightly different model, just to further emphasize their rare reward-ness.

This. This is the whole point of my original post. I'm fine with the syndicate versions being an upgrade (aside from the Synoid's MASSIVE upgrade, that's just unhealthy), but top tier DPS that outstrips everything else in the game and a built in equivalent of a Warframe ultimate for free and and double self buff and an elemental proc...too much in one weapon.

[Magneu]

I don't see why you are comparing them to miasma.  Miasma does like 5000 damage per cast, has a stun, and can be cast any time you want.

I was just cherrypicking a low range ult. I'm in favor or radial effect damage OR proc, not both. As is, Blight for example will wipe most Grineer to a pretty good level (and whoever is left has half HP automatically). In a 4x Corrosive Projection squad (mandatory for long runs), Blight is an instant 3750 damage nuke with the proc; not entirely sure when the viral proc takes effect, but if it's before the damage that's a nuke for effectively 7.5k damage, which wipes trash mobs past starchart levels.

[AlphaHorseman]

They should be a combination of sidegrade and upgrade.

Enough of an upgrade that people want to work towards them and if you have the syndicate version there's no reason to have the original, but not so powerful as to totally overshadow the bass variant, or overshadow weapons in general.

They should also have a slightly different model, just to further emphasize their rare reward-ness.

Nobody uses a Paris over a Paris Prime. Nobody uses an MK-1 Paris over a regular Paris. Nobody uses the Boltor over the Boltor Prime. Nobody uses the Latron over the Latron Prime/Wraith, etc. Why should these upgrades be side-grades when all the rest of our weaponry is upgrades, as per progression? That makes no sense.

 

I was on Triton to get R5 cores and got standing as a result of playing; sounds like non rep farm to me. In addition, your second statement makes no sense; every grindwall is passed when someone gives DE $5 for 75 plat, then buys a Vaykor/Synoid for the going price of 40-60p. No rep farm, no prime parts, no credits, no resources. They just bypassed every syndicate grindwall for that end reward. 

 

And if someone doesn't have the resources to build a single prime part (which by the way only applies on rank 4 to 5 tribute), that's not really an excuse; it's not very hard to find 1-2 Neural Sensors, or the cheap credit cost, etc. 

 

Yes, someone had to grind out rep to get that weapon; the problem is, when someone hits rank 5 and maxes standing...what do they buy? Already got Syanana, stocked up on keys, got specters, restores...guess I'll buy the weapon and put it on the market over and over. The supply is roughly equal to the demand in this scenario, which is why the weapons aren't in the multi hundred plat range.

 

This. This is the whole point of my original post. I'm fine with the syndicate versions being an upgrade (aside from the Synoid's MASSIVE upgrade, that's just unhealthy), but top tier DPS that outstrips everything else in the game and a built in equivalent of a Warframe ultimate for free and and double self buff and an elemental proc...too much in one weapon.

The point being is that someone had to grind through all that to get the weapon, be it yourself or the person you're trading with. The trade price is an added cost onto what someone had to grind through, just to get that weapon.

 

Their costs is high, their reward is justified by that cost. If they were just side grades, there wouldn't be any sense of progression in them other than them being different looking. You don't progress through a game to go to the end, only to get something you could get in the beginning. That isn't progression, its useless. You sacrifice a lot to get up to those ranks, you should be rewarded for it.

[vaugahn]

Nobody uses a Paris over a Paris Prime. Nobody uses an MK-1 Paris over a regular Paris. Nobody uses the Boltor over the Boltor Prime. Nobody uses the Latron over the Latron Prime/Wraith, etc. Why should these upgrades be side-grades when all the rest of our weaponry is upgrades, as per progression? That makes no sense.

 

Because they're not primes or event rewards, they're syndicate weapons. Different thing. 

 

Like the syndicate synadanas, they're supposed to show your dedication to a syndicate. They should be good, given the effort required, but they shouldn't be straight-up megabuffs like most prime weapons are.

[AlphaHorseman]

Because they're not primes or event rewards, they're syndicate weapons. Different thing. 

 

Like the syndicate synadanas, they're supposed to show your dedication to a syndicate. They should be good, given the effort required, but they shouldn't be straight-up megabuffs like most prime weapons are.

The syndicate weapons are pretty much on-par with what the prime weapons are, but for different weapons. They are pretty substantial investments, and they are good weapons, just like how the prime weapons are. And you can't compare the syandanas to weapons, as syandanas are purely cosmetic, weapons are not.

[vaugahn]

The syndicate weapons are pretty much on-par with what the prime weapons are, but for different weapons. They are pretty substantial investments, and they are good weapons, just like how the prime weapons are. And you can't compare the syandanas to weapons, as syandanas are purely cosmetic, weapons are not.

 

They're both 100k standing syndicate rewards.

 

And most of them are only good weapons because of their base weapon, like the Marelok. 

[AlphaHorseman]

They're both 100k standing syndicate rewards.

 

And most of them are only good weapons because of their base weapon, like the Marelok. 

that doesn't discount that a cosmetic is a cosmetic, and a weapon is a weapon. 100k is also a lot of standing for either.

 

Is it bad that they're good weapons? Nope, I actually do like the Marelok, and the Vaykor Marelok being a better gun is very good, just like how the Rakta Ballistica just got it's buffs. Syanoid is also good as well. They're all good upgraded weapons, I don't get what your point was with that last sentence.