De Needs To Give Us Better, More Powerful Weapons

[Glisp]

Our weapons are extremely powerful for intended content (being level 40, but moving to around level 80). Those 1-40 levels can be conquered with a Mk-1 Braton, if forma'd well. 

My argument is enemy scaling as well as weapon balance both need a rework/tweaking.

the human that controls kickbot likes to argue with people on Design council chat about this sort of thing. (yes, a human does control him like a puppet at times in addition to the AI controlling him.)

 

in all seriousness though, the high level content should be somewhat manageable for solo players without OP weapons. Having to use things like Soma, Boltor Prime, etc, makes me feel....dirty. I'm all for a challenge, but not when the challenge has a distinct advantage over you.

 

The main issue now is the introduction of weaknesses to procs. They affect Tenno too, not just enemies. So as a result, we take a lot more damage now. This is especially noticable with Corpus. I've been downed as a Vauban by two level 12 MOA on solo. I know Vauban's not really a solo warframe, but still, that's pretty messed up if a couple of level 12 enemies can kill me in a few seconds. (and yes, I was making an effort to get out of fire)

[Llyssa]

I rolled with MR11 and MR12 players in a low-level survival yesterday who tried to tell me how camping in one spot was the best way to play and gain XP, while enemies barely came to them. Yeah, so much for MR being a determining factor for skill or experience. I'd rather play with a lower-ranked, one-frame player who has mastered the use of one frame (ANY frame, not necessarily Rhino or Ash or Excalibur or Nova or Loki, etc) than a high mastery player who has maxed-and-discarded several frames/weapons and still plays like a noob. 

Anything under MR 15 is still low ranked--it only takes 1/2 of all existing equipment to perch you at MR 14. I would keep that in mind.

[OniDax]

Anything under MR 15 is still low ranked--it only takes 1/2 of all existing equipment to perch you at MR 14. I would keep that in mind.

 

Ok, you consider anything under MR15 to be low ranked. So what? That still doesn't mean that MR determines skill, experience, or vast knowledge about the game.

[Llyssa]

Ok, you consider anything under MR15 to be low ranked. So what? That still doesn't mean that MR determines skill, experience, or vast knowledge about the game.

Not consider. Is.

 

If you own less than half the stuff(which means you LITERALLY do not know what over 1/2 the stuff in the game does), you're MR 14.

[OniDax]

Not consider. Is.

 

If you own less than half the stuff(which means you LITERALLY do not know what over 1/2 the stuff in the game does), you're MR 14.

 

So you're saying that someone can't go look on Youtube to see "what over 1/2 the stuff in the game does"? Yeah, ok. Sure thing. Someone can see what that stuff does, and choose not to spend time on it. That doesn't mean they don't know what it does, nor does it mean that they are less skilled than a higher-ranked player. Someone can max out a weapon and frame, and then move on to the next weapon/frame without taking the time to figure out how best to use that frame or how best to mod it. Your definition of low-ranked/high-ranked does nothing to change my point that MR does not determine skill, or that "Rhinoobs, Ashnoobs, Frostnoobs, whatever-other-name-you-want-to-call-certain-players" are something intrinsic to low-ranked players, or that all MR0-8 players don't "know what other frames can do and adapt to certain play-styles that are out of their comfort zone", therefore there is no reason that T4 should be restricted to only certain players. Nor does doing that solve any powercreep problem. Those who think that are merely being elitist.

Edited March 5, 2015 by AntoineFlemming

[taiiat]

i don't know what this Thread is about.

your Thread Title, and the 5 or 6 subjects in your Post all clash with each other.

we have no need for 'more powerful' Weapons. we get enough statcrepe as it is.

instead, we have some outlier Weapons that are significantly out of balance with the rest of the game.

also, get some Mods. the statjumps in Weapons only becomes so noticeable once you put Mods on them.

if you only play TIV Survival.... why is nobody using Corrosive Projection? apparently they're not being used if you're searching for Puncture Damage.

and besides, Soma Series is a Marksman's LMG - shooting for Weakpoints / Headshots blows Boltor Prime out of the water.

but Boltor Prime can tape the trigger down and flail at the Enemies.

[(PSN)Abhijith_Jose101]

guys thank you very much for all these anwers and suggestions! i just wanted your guy's advise and opinions about this concept, i really did gain alot of information,                                                  

and by the way, you guys talked about MR 0-8 only using RHINO, ASH, or FROST?

 

 

ALL HAIL LOKI MASTER RACE!

[RealPandemonium]

Lets be honest, any crappy weapon can be good and utilized when catalased and formed, with the right mods

So why do we need more powerful weapons again?

[Llyssa]

So you're saying that someone can't go look on Youtube to see "what over 1/2 the stuff in the game does"? Yeah, ok. Sure thing. Someone can see what that stuff does, and choose not to spend time on it. That doesn't mean they don't know what it does, nor does it mean that they are less skilled than a higher-ranked player. Someone can max out a weapon and frame, and then move on to the next weapon/frame without taking the time to figure out how best to use that frame or how best to mod it. Your definition of low-ranked/high-ranked does nothing to change my point that MR does not determine skill, or that "Rhinoobs, Ashnoobs, Frostnoobs, whatever-other-name-you-want-to-call-certain-players" are something intrinsic to low-ranked players, or that all MR0-8 players don't "know what other frames can do and adapt to certain play-styles that are out of their comfort zone", therefore there is no reason that T4 should be restricted to only certain players. Nor does doing that solve any powercreep problem. Those who think that are merely being elitist.

So you're saying that if you watch a video of someone giving birth on youtube, you know what it's like to give birth? WOAH.

 

Alert the presses, this is a HUGE break through in social conversations!

[SIDESTRE4M]

Just gonna put it like this: Back before rhino prime was released, we were in the current state: Nothing new on deck as an uber update was worked on.

 

So you know what I did? I formaed stuff.

 

I formaed things I liked.

 

I ran out of meaningful ways to do that.

 

So I formaed things that were interesting (candy cane PRIME FTW!)

 

I ran out of meaningful ways to do that, too.

 

So I took my mk-1 braton, and I threw a catalyst on it, and I started throwing forma on it, too. Mk-1 braton, n00best weapon there was at the time. (Still is, really), as it was standard-issue for starting up the game.

 

It turns out when you're a pro player and you actually spend some effort throwing forma at the n00batron, it's a power house that's able to rip down high-level void enemies in seconds flat. Now, to be technical, there is a numeric advantage with, well, all other weapons in the game. The way the multipliers work and so forth it will never be "the absolute bestest gun in the game" on paper.

 

That fact does *not* mean that I cannot mow down enemies at insane rates with my trusty MK-1 Braton. In fact, my MK-1 could outperform most weapons held by most other players, merely because of how much effort I'd put into modding it to become a beast. I'm not actually a huge fan of the MK-1 Brat, but if they ever release a tactical alert forcing us to use that, and only that, I'm going to first laugh, and then shred everything like it's made of paper.

 

It is not a function of the gun itself, but the ability to trick it out insanely with just a few forma that makes weapons really shine in combat.

 

I did that with Lato Prime and it holds out pretty well through the starmap, but I can't bring it to higher infinite missions, because the bulletsponges are eating too much time and ammo.

[RealPandemonium]

I did that with Lato Prime and it holds out pretty well through the starmap, but I can't bring it to higher infinite missions, because the bulletsponges are eating too much time and ammo.

Currently maxing out my Lato.  It starts to sweat against heavies at around level 40 in the void but it isn't maxed yet.

[SIDESTRE4M]

Pretty fun one-shotting with a Lato on lower levels though.

 

It really falls of hard at some point. I think it should at least gets its status chance buffed, so it can at least be used for some utility, when it comes to this.

 

Does anyone use Sicarus Prime? I think it's beautiful, but all the work is a waste because who really uses it?

Edited March 5, 2015 by SIDESTRE4M

[DaganEldr]

So you're saying that if you watch a video of someone giving birth on youtube, you know what it's like to give birth? WOAH.

 

Alert the presses, this is a HUGE break through in social conversations!

Come on, be nice about this. There's no reason to be so sarcastic.

 

I can see what both of you are getting at, honestly. Even if someone does know what a lot of the weapons/frames do, by LOGIC, they still don't have half the weapons in the game.

 

(You could also have a nutcase like me that runs around with MK-1 equipment til rank 6, then she gets so many more weapons at that point, ranks them all up, and then for the longest time, paid little to no mind to taking the Mastery test.)

 

Yep, I'm guilty of that.

 

A lot of players I know actually don't like taking their mastery tests once they get past MR8, because that's the last test you need to get what you want in the game. I sat there for quite some time. After that, they have very little, if any insentive to keep running tests, so someone could easily have weapons beyond what their rank may imply, but just simply didn't run the rank up. (My friend sat at the same rank up for months on end before I started teasing him about it. :P)

 

That's all I've really got on that topic, other than the fact that if DE wants people to try for even higher ranks, they're gonna have to MR restrict some of the weapons that may come out soon. I've seen a lot of new weapons and no rank restrictions past 8. Haha.

[OniDax]

So you're saying that if you watch a video of someone giving birth on youtube, you know what it's like to give birth? WOAH.

 

Alert the presses, this is a HUGE break through in social conversations!

Knowing what it's like to give birth and knowing what happens during that process are two different things. I can read a book on the anatomy and biology of different species and how they reproduce, how they function, what they do, without having to experience what they do. But I guess you wouldn't know that, looking at your response. Again, the point I come back to is that MR-locking isn't a solution to any powercreep problem, especially after MR3 or so. Someone can see the way a frame functions, the way a weapon functions, and can choose whether or not they want to spend time on that weapon. And others may only want to spend time farming for or buying a weapon that they are actually going to use, instead of spending time and resources on an item that is only considered mastery fodder. And those who max out something only to discard it cannot be said to have spent time enough with a weapon to know how best it works, as it doesn't take that long to max something out. That is why MR is not a judge of skill or experience. But, again, you obviously wouldn't understand that, because you're too busy trying to stroke your ego and explain how the fact that you've maxed out everything in the game is an indicator of how much better you are than someone else.

Edited March 6, 2015 by AntoineFlemming

[Xana_Skullsunder]

So you're saying that if you watch a video of someone giving birth on youtube, you know what it's like to give birth? WOAH.

 

Alert the presses, this is a HUGE break through in social conversations!

 

Half the guns are the same, you know. If you know the MK-1 Kunai, you've got a pretty good idea of how the Hikou and Despair work. Same for a lot of guns.

 

Stop being intentionally dense.