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Saving Mr. Snow Globe


AlphaHorseman
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As another player was willing to post up, here is a description of Frost:

 

Wiki Description:

 

Frost is a slow and heavily-armored Warframe that is able to utilize offensive and defensive skills to both his own and his team's advantage. He commands furious blizzards that pummel and freeze his enemies while providing respite and solace for his allies.

 

In-Game Description:

 

By channeling moisture and vapor in the surrounding environment, Frost creates formidable defense and lethal attacks from subzero conditions.

 

DE_Scott (Grineeer on the Forums) also changed Frost’s abilities to make him less of a “one trick pony” Frame. Although it was a move in good hearts, Frost still needs some work done.

 

Now, by the descriptions above, Frost should be a very viable frame Offensively or Defensively. Sadly, this isn’t the case. His lack of offensive versatility and sole “defensive” nature being in one ability severely limits Frosts actual usage as a frame for more than one power. Thus, I propose these Frost buffs.

 

 

Freeze

The ability concept is nice, but its inability to scale due to stray fire makes it very situation. Not to mention its non-hit-scan nature makes aiming the ability at long range very difficult to use. For being his only true range skill, it's a lackluster one at that.

 

If Freeze was made hit-scan, or had a faster projectile travel time, it could be very useful throughout content. As it stands now, Freeze actually travels slower than the Arrows from Bows. The problems, however, doesn't stop there. It's susceptibility to stray fire and duration makes it a very hindered ability. Changing the mechanic to being only duration helps to give the ability scale ability, as now it can halt an enemy for a short period, providing an offensive and defensive advantage. Additionally, tightening up the baseline radius of the AoE, but giving it a guaranteed Freeze proc solidifies it as a very useful ability.

 

Thus, an Offensive Frost can use it to halt mobs from a distance and use their weapons to clear the mobs. A Defensive Frost can use Freeze to keep enemies away from their Globe in close quarters, or an Objective like a Pod or Console. It coalesces with his kit as an AoE Defender Frame, but also gives him some Lockdown capabilities offensively. The skill becomes very useful, and is now versatile with utility and CC.

 

Ice Wave

Its scale ability is almost completely from the augment mod. Without it, those few seconds of applied Cold Proc only go so far in any level of content.

 

To remedy this, giving Ice Wave Knock Back would do well with giving it scale ability in the form of CC/Utility. Enemy units that are hit with Ice Wave now have the Cold Proc applied, but additionally are knocked away from the Ice Wave. Thus, the skill now has the versatility to be used offensively or defensively. A Defensive Frost can use it as an area denial skill to protect a Pod or Mobile Defense Console if melee units come into range of the objective. An Offensive Frost now has the tools to control the flow of enemies on the battlefield and give themselves some working room.

 

The ability now scales throughout content, and is useful for a plethora of purposes, depending on the situation at hand. Credit goes to ArchWizard for coming up with the idea of giving Ice Wave Knock Back.

 

Snow Globe

Although this may be a touchy subject, DE had before gone with Duration for the sole factor of Snow Globe. I agree that it made him useful beyond belief, but the current iteration limits it with Duration and HP. To remedy this, and to keep it balanced, having Snow Globe be solely HP based would be a great solution, as it isn't taking a step back and making him a one trick pony, but it also allows Frost players to cast the globe and move freely throughout the battlefield, rather than having to recast simply because the duration went out.

 

Another mechanical change to Snow Globe to give it some scale ability without needing to spam would be having the Casting Frosts armor value be applied to the HP of the globe, rather than stacked onto it. Thus, a maxed armor/power strength Frost now has a very strong Snow Globe with an EHP far better than before. The need for spamming the skill isn't as high, as now it has better HP to deal with incoming damage. Although, maybe giving its baseline health a slight boost as well, along with applying armor, would help as well. Allowing players with Punch Through weapons to shoot through the globe would be useful too, if players are outside of the globe dealing with other threats.

 

Aesthetically, removing the Snow Storm running rampant within the globe, and replacing it with actually falling snow would go a long way into making visibility within a globe better. Players wouldn't have to mod for Black energy colors just to get a clear view of the enemy. Also, showing visual damage to the globe in the form of cracking can help players identify when the Globe is under heavy fire. Having an audible "shatter" sound when the Globe goes down also gives an audio cue to all players that the globe has fallen, and the area is vulnerable.

 

UI wise, allowing players to aim at a globe and having an HP value/bar pop up showing the Globes current health would be very useful, as players can gauge how long before the globe falls and the area it was in becomes vulnerable. Also, giving the Casting Frost a location of Globes cast and their HP levels allows them to identify where they need to return to an area to recast the globe or deal with threats.

 

Thus, Snow Globe now becomes a very useful ward, but Frost isn't tied to it for his usefulness. It's a good skill that can stand alone, but not a skill that automatically pushes Frost players on babysitting duty.

 

Avalanche

Oh gosh where do I start? The skills lack of scale ability comes from the fact that it's just a straight damage button that fetters off in higher content. To keep with his theme of Ice and the thematic elements of Avalanche, and also to give it some individuality from other ults, I propose giving Avalanche the mechanic of throwing enemies out of its effective radius after they've been hit with the Avalanche and ice. In addition, giving surviving enemies an extended Cold Proc would be very useful.

 

Enemies were just hit with an Avalanche, they should've been swept off their feet and experiencing some flash freeze/hypothermia. Giving it knock back and knock down away from the Casting Frost, along with the Cold Proc gives Avalanche the characteristics of a Defensive and Offensive skill. Defensive Frosts can use Avalanche as a panic button to push enemies away from an area they need to protect, and gives the squad some breathing room to work. Offensive Frosts can use Avalanche as a tool for killing enemy mobs with its damage, but also giving some room for shooting the enemies who survive with a Cold Proc.

 

The ability execution would perform as follows. As Frost raises his hand to freeze enemies within the area, the damage is applied to the affected units. As Frost brings his hand down and sweeps it across, the enemies would be thrown out of his affected radius and have the proc applied after thawing. It fits his animation set thematically, and gives it more meaning.

 

Skills Overall

 

With all these added to Frosts abilities, he now becomes a very versatile frame whom has abilities that are all very useful. Each ability scales well into content, but they also all synergize very well with one another. Their independence in mechanics and usefulness ensures that players can use a power and be assured of its effectiveness, and the entire kit becomes quite useful when used in tandem.

 

All skills act as AoE defensive/offensive tools, and work both defensively and offensively for players, as his description entails. He now becomes a frame that is more useful and wanted than just for his Snow Globe, and can be used reliably throughout content, rather than delegated to two mission types as a necessary frame.

 

 

Stats

 

I would say giving him an armor buff would be appropriate. He's supposed to be a tanky frame, after all, and both Rhino and Valkyr, and now Chroma outclass him with that. Maybe an armor value of 300?

 

Please feel free to input feedback and discuss civilly. I'm doing my best to try and get Frost some much needed buffs.

Edited by AlphaHorseman
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Great and reasonable ideas as they only require re-working of stats and not the nature of the ablities (graphics, physics, etc) which is extremely difficult. Never used Frost myself but I can see from even seasoned fans of the frame its in need of some serious attention.

Also as a long standing fan of any RPG incorporating frost I support him being made into a top-tier frame! 

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I like your ideas. +1.

Thank you very much.

 

Stop nerfing Snow Globe! QnQ

My good sir, it isn't a nerf in any sense. Making it into an ability dependent on HP, with the added statistic of Armor, helps it out greatly to be scale able.

 

Great and reasonable ideas as they only require re-working of stats and not the nature of the ablities (graphics, physics, etc) which is extremely difficult. Never used Frost myself but I can see from even seasoned fans of the frame its in need of some serious attention.

Also as a long standing fan of any RPG incorporating frost I support him being made into a top-tier frame! 

That was my hope. I would think DE doesn't want their work completely refuted and changed, and thus I tried to think of additions and alterations to the powers that didn't involve changing their entire mechanics, only changing/adding to what's already there.

 

Cheers to making Frost a top-tier Frame!

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I just thought about a possible ability Frost could have

 

Imagine:

Frost stretches his hand forward, icicles appear and fly forward one by one.

 

 

i think it would be awesome.

Something like Freeze, but as an extended ability where it acts as something of a secondary firing weapon?

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Pure HP snow globe isn't functional.  Giving it an armor value doesn't help either.  Sure you cast it a ton of times but enemies will be able to burn through it faster than you can put up more globes.  In the higher waves of defense it's hp value is useless, to the point that when I use Frost against high enough level enemies I end up focusing entirely on keeping globe up.  I don't get to shoot, I don't get to move and pick up drops, I just make sure the mission doesn't fail and my team mates aren't insta-gibbed by keeping globe up.  Honestly, the nerf to globe made the problem of defensive frosts just sitting around waiting on globe much worse.  What's more interesting is that Limbo has effectively the better version now with the caveat that no one shoots out either.  The only difference is no one's figured out how to function around that in a pub team, yet.  If globe is to get a change I would much rather it be returned to a duration skill rather than the current hybrid that it is.  No offense, but your suggestion will make snow globe as useless as iron skin against high level enemies.

 

Edit: Your other suggestions are interesting and may encourage me to use the other abilities seriously rather than for kicks and giggles on low-level enemies.

Edited by Lorthos_Mornin
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Pure HP snow globe isn't functional.  Giving it an armor value doesn't help either.  Sure you cast it a ton of times but enemies will be able to burn through it faster than you can put up more globes.  In the higher waves of defense it's hp value is useless, to the point that when I use Frost against high enough level enemies I end up focusing entirely on keeping globe up.  I don't get to shoot, I don't get to move and pick up drops, I just make sure the mission doesn't fail and my team mates aren't insta-gibbed by keeping globe up.  Honestly, the nerf to globe made the problem of defensive frosts just sitting around waiting on globe much worse.  What's more interesting is that Limbo has effectively the better version now with the caveat that no one shoots out either.  The only difference is no one's figured out how to function around that in a pub team, yet.  If globe is to get a change I would much rather it be returned to a duration skill rather than the current hybrid that it is.  No offense, but your suggestion will make snow globe as useless as iron skin against high level enemies.

None taken. Although, with the current changes made to the globe, doesn't the HP now stack when players cast a second globe within the first? The new globe now consumes the old one and stacks its HP upon it, as per the Update notes. It came in the same time Avalanche had it's animation reworked.

 

Having a Frost with maxed armor (I think it's somewhere in the 300's range, which halves incoming damage, I believe) and globes with stacked health makes it an extremely powerful skill. With it being only HP, as suggested, now the skill becomes an extremely powerful ward that has a greater EHP than just having the armor value stacked upon it.

 

For the duration route...well DE had done that before and gone back on it. I would've hoped for it as well, but it doesn't look like they'll be doing that any time soon.

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All the idea's are very nice.


Except one. 

The problem with having a snow-globe with no duration, people are gonna use energy pad's and stack the thing 100's of times. So you cant do that. Even if you were to use a cap to limit how many you can place, your going to neither have not enough or have an invincible snow-globe like the good ol days. Even if it stacks with Armour or hp, it will burn out just as fast as any rhino skin would. 

The only thing i hate about the current snow-globe, we've turned him into a snow-globe spammer for the 4 second invulnerability. The invincible snow-globe still exists with trinity , you just need to play the worse kind of play style possible (spamframe)

They should just bring back the old snow globe, bombards ai should still shoot it, so we can be hurt from blast radius. Then all other ai told to run into the globe. 

i agree the effects inside should be remastered to little snowflakes like a real snow-globe.. not a freaking blizzard. 



snow-globe is what makes frost just as offensive as he is defensive.

 

 

 

 

 

You could make the very same argument about rhino's iron skin. It got nerf'd and now his face tanking days with the galatine are no more. Rhino had one of the funnest types of game play's around. DE just know's how to ruin are fun. 

 

Snow-globe is the very same. Defense missions were way better when you knew you were protected and it was usually vor who got you killed once he entered the globe. 

Iron skin and Snow-globe will never go back to the old days. Even though it should. Rhino leading the charge in survival and Frost in Defence. It was so perfect. I remember those times. 
 

Edited by (PS4)GreenSoup2HoT
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All the idea's are very nice.

Except one. 

The problem with having a snow-globe with no duration, people are gonna use energy pad's and stack the thing 100's of times. So you cant do that. Even if you were to use a cap to limit how many you can place, your going to neither have not enough or have an invincible snow-globe like the good ol days. Even if it stacks with Armour or hp, it will burn out just as fast as any rhino skin would. 

The only thing i hate about the current snow-globe, we've turned him into a snow-globe spammer for the 4 second invulnerability. The invincible snow-globe still exists with trinity , you just need to play the worse kind of play style possible (spamframe)

They should just bring back the old snow globe, bombards ai should still shoot it, so we can be hurt from blast radius. Then all other ai told to run into the globe. 

i agree the effects inside should be remastered to little snowflakes like a real snow-globe.. not a freaking blizzard. 

snow-globe is what makes frost just as offensive as he is defensive.

 

The problem as it is now is that it's limited by duration and HP. And DE has stated that they wouldn't revert it back. As such, the only other route to improve the globe is to make it solely HP. The difference being that it is now not only affected by Power Strength, but having a maxed armored Frost gives it the ability to halve the incoming damage (as I believe as you reach above 300 armor the damage is lessened by 50%). 

 

The arguments on why spamming is good or bad is for another thread, I'd rather not get into that here, as I believe allowing players to spam their powers is completely fine, and we have conflicting views on the matter.

 

I would hope that the Globe actually would block AoE attacks, but if that's a balancing factor for it, then I would secede that it's necessary.

 

The thing about Snow Globe is that it's the sole power players use him for, the remainder of his kit can be done better by one frame or others. It doesn't help his offensive skills because he's stuck on there casting the globe, unable to fight or otherwise because the team is only allowing him in for the Snow Globe.

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All the idea's are very nice.

Except one. 

The problem with having a snow-globe with no duration, people are gonna use energy pad's and stack the thing 100's of times. So you cant do that. Even if you were to use a cap to limit how many you can place, your going to neither have not enough or have an invincible snow-globe like the good ol days. Even if it stacks with Armour or hp, it will burn out just as fast as any rhino skin would. 

The only thing i hate about the current snow-globe, we've turned him into a snow-globe spammer for the 4 second invulnerability. The invincible snow-globe still exists with trinity , you just need to play the worse kind of play style possible (spamframe)

They should just bring back the old snow globe, bombards ai should still shoot it, so we can be hurt from blast radius. Then all other ai told to run into the globe. 

i agree the effects inside should be remastered to little snowflakes like a real snow-globe.. not a freaking blizzard. 

snow-globe is what makes frost just as offensive as he is defensive.

 

Double post - Removed comment

Edited by AlphaHorseman
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DE has stated that they wouldn't revert it back.

the only other route to improve the globe is to make it solely HP. The difference being that it is now not only affected by Power Strength, but having a maxed armored Frost gives it the ability to halve the incoming damage (as I believe as you reach above 300 armor the damage is lessened by 50%). 

Yeah there's no way DE will go back.

I agree making the globe have some sort of damage reduction needs to be in place. If they don't want to add a damage reduction i have a idea.

Increase the invulnerability time so there more time to convert the damage dealt into hp. The globe is being used for the invulnerabilty time anyways. Why not give us a little more relief to go and shoot something before placing another globe. 

-All incoming damage that is absorbed during the invulnerability period is converted into health and added to the globe's base health. 

-500% of Frost's armor value is also added to the globe's base health.

you still need a duration though or spamming the globe will be exploited. Just like thumper's in EoB event. 

Edited by (PS4)GreenSoup2HoT
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Yeah there's no way DE will go back.

I agree making the globe have some sort of damage reduction needs to be in place. If they don't want to add a damage reduction i have a idea.

Increase the invulnerability time so there more time to convert the damage dealt into hp. The globe is being used for the invulnerabilty time anyways. Why not give us a little more relief to go and shoot something before placing another globe. 

-All incoming damage that is absorbed during the invulnerability period is converted into health and added to the globe's base health. 

-500% of Frost's armor value is also added to the globe's base health.

you still need a duration though or spamming the globe will be exploited. Just like thumper's in EoB event. 

If they stuck with duration, how long were you thinking of making the invulnerability period?

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Just asking: Have you been playing Frost recently?

 

The reason I ask this is in response to your title. Snow Globe does go well up to Level 35-40 with a Continuity (or Primed Continuity), Streamline, Rank 8 Steel Fiber, and Intensify, more if both Power Duration and Power Strength is increased, while Power Efficiency is kept at a moderate value. Not to say that it could do with a few tweaks here and there, but Snow Globe is still quite powerful. 

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Edit: Your other suggestions are interesting and may encourage me to use the other abilities seriously rather than for kicks and giggles on low-level enemies.

That's all I hope for, that the rest of his kit becomes scale able and useful throughout content.

 

Just asking: Have you been playing Frost recently?

 

The reason I ask this is in response to your title. Snow Globe does go well up to Level 35-40 with a Continuity (or Primed Continuity), Streamline, Rank 8 Steel Fiber, and Intensify, more if both Power Duration and Power Strength is increased, while Power Efficiency is kept at a moderate value. Not to say that it could do with a few tweaks here and there, but Snow Globe is still quite powerful. 

Actually, yes, haha. He's my favourite and most used frame. I was playing him earlier this evening, actually.

 

My title was for a play on words. The majority of this thread does focus on his other abilities, however, haha. I made the title as such because it seems most other players only see him as useful for his globe, and disregard his other skills because of it. Hence, Mr. Snow Globe instead of Frost.

 

It's a sad thing, but I hope to change that.

Edited by AlphaHorseman
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The majority of this thread does focus on his other abilities, however, haha.

Freeze is like Fireball: Fire and forget small AoE missile, so good for running-and-gunning. I would not be really liking your suggestion because of that. 

 

Ice Wave is quite nice already with its forced Cold status effect (which is actually 6 seconds, by the way, not 3). A wider area of effect would be welcomed, but knockback is not really that needed. 

 

Not really going to comment on Snow Globe, for I already cracked open its secrets and found ways to make it more visible even with the snowstorm. 

 

Avalanche should have its freeze duration back, for starters. Then, once that is reimplemented, other suggestions can add on from there. 

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Freeze is like Fireball: Fire and forget small AoE missile, so good for running-and-gunning. I would not be really liking your suggestion because of that. 

 

Ice Wave is quite nice already with its forced Cold status effect (which is actually 6 seconds, by the way, not 3). A wider area of effect would be welcomed, but knockback is not really that needed. 

 

Not really going to comment on Snow Globe, for I already cracked open its secrets and found ways to make it more visible even with the snowstorm. 

 

Avalanche should have its freeze duration back, for starters. Then, once that is reimplemented, other suggestions can add on from there. 

For Freeze, may I ask what about the changes to the ability that you do not like?

 

Thanks for clearing that up with Ice Wave, I'll be sure to change it in the OP. Still though, that proc only goes so far. I suggested Knock Back because it could be very useful in many different situations, and helps synergize with his kit with more than just "cold proc here, cold proc there, cold proc everywhere!" with his powers. It was a vie to breathe some individuality with it that isn't already in some of his other powers.

 

Care to share that secret about Snow Globe? Haha, other than black energy, that's all I can think of for visibility.

 

Sadly, DE stated that the Freeze Duration was a bug. As such, I'd hope to give this power some individuality through scale ability and make it sensible with his casting animation. Such changes I would hope to make the ability more useful throughout content, rather than it being just a larger version of Freeze.

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For Freeze, may I ask what about the changes to the ability that you do not like?

For one thing, reducing the AoE radius. I do use it for quick attacks on small groups of enemies, and reducing the radius would just make Freeze less worth using. It is difficult enough to aim directly at an enemy at times, so reducing the radius would just be one step back to single-target Fireball. 

 

Thanks for clearing that up with Ice Wave, I'll be sure to change it in the OP. Still though, that proc only goes so far. I suggested Knock Back because it could be very useful in many different situations, and helps synergize with his kit with more than just "cold proc here, cold proc there, cold proc everywhere!" with his powers. It was a vie to breathe some individuality with it that isn't already in some of his other powers.

You can shut down hallways and rooms with Ice Wave forced Cold status effects, which in turn means enemies will be coming in slower, and other players can then start massacring those enemies. 

 

Care to share that secret about Snow Globe? Haha, other than black energy, that's all I can think of for visibility.

When casting Snow Globe, the direction your hands are flaying towards will not have the snowstorm effect. Use this to your advantage. 

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Just asking: Have you been playing Frost recently?

 

The reason I ask this is in response to your title. Snow Globe does go well up to Level 35-40 with a Continuity (or Primed Continuity), Streamline, Rank 8 Steel Fiber, and Intensify, more if both Power Duration and Power Strength is increased, while Power Efficiency is kept at a moderate value. Not to say that it could do with a few tweaks here and there, but Snow Globe is still quite powerful. 

you may of got to level's 35-40 but your teammates could of been pulling all the weight. If you had a nova/sayrn/trinity. I doubt the bubble would even get touched. 

 

 

 

If they stuck with duration, how long were you thinking of making the invulnerability period?

i'd say 10 seconds, that's long enough to absorb a heck of a lot more hp. With the increased hp, you could probably keep the bubble up for another 5-15 seconds. Which gives you time to use other abilities or shoot. Which i think is definitely needed. It makes game-play more enjoyable for frost. Just make it so you cant use another globe till the first one is down(power in use). It gives time for error , as well as good mechanics for enjoyable game play. If your bubble never goes down, it will eventually depending on how much you built for duration. 

With your new animation idea, you could moderator the hp of the globe for when you should get ready and setup a new one. 

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you may of got to level's 35-40 but your teammates could of been pulling all the weight. If you had a nova/sayrn/trinity. I doubt the bubble would even get touched. 

Actually, no. Snow Globe can survive quite a few hits (actually, quite a lot) of hits at Levels 35-40 with the basic Warframe Power Modifier mods and Steel Fibre, and I keep it surviving even longer with the mechanic known as "aiming and shooting at enemies". 

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For one thing, reducing the AoE radius. I do use it for quick attacks on small groups of enemies, and reducing the radius would just make Freeze less worth using. It is difficult enough to aim directly at an enemy at times, so reducing the radius would just be one step back to single-target Fireball. 

 

You can shut down hallways and rooms with Ice Wave forced Cold status effects, which in turn means enemies will be coming in slower, and other players can then start massacring those enemies. 

 

When casting Snow Globe, the direction your hands are flaying towards will not have the snowstorm effect. Use this to your advantage. 

When I thought of tightening the radius, I thought of just a bit. But, we could keep the radius the same, it helps with its usefulness and scale ability, after all. Hit-scan I would hope is something to help with the aiming difficulties. I too hate having mobs that I didn't want to Freeze jump in front of the targets I'm trying to get at.

 

I can see the Hallways, as I've done so in many situations, but Rooms would have to be the smaller ones. 6 seconds can be useful though, it's only annoying when you've got loads of threats and not enough time to deal with them.

 

Oh that's what you meant by the Globe, haha. Yeah, I've done it myself. The annoyance comes because enemies in Defense, well actually anywhere in-game, come from different directions. You may be able to clarify view in one direction, but mobs tend to swarm from all over.

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i'd say 10 seconds, that's long enough to absorb a heck of a lot more hp. With the increased hp, you could probably keep the bubble up for another 5-15 seconds. Which gives you time to use other abilities or shoot. Which i think is definitely needed. It makes game-play more enjoyable for frost. Just make it so you cant use another globe till the first one is down(power in use). It gives time for error , as well as good mechanics for enjoyable game play. If your bubble never goes down, it will eventually depending on how much you built for duration. 

With your new animation idea, you could moderator the hp of the globe for when you should get ready and setup a new one. 

The increase of the invincibility is nice, but hindering the amount of globes being able to cast isn't a good way to make it more useful. There are many in-game situations where having multiple globes up is very useful, and sometimes necessary. Soloing an Interception, to give an example, is difficult with any frame Solo (depending on the map, WarFrame powers, weapons at hand, and player play style). Multiple globes up on the different locations allows Frost to lock down multiple areas and deal with the threats as they come in.

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