How "PvP" could work in Warframe

[Zakalwe]

First, if you're very anti-pvp and are simply going to repsond with a "STFU NO PVP" style comment, then please read this: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/4215-pvp-is-not-a-dirty-word/

Thank you!

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This thread is about discussing ideas for how "pvp" (notice the inverted commas, important!) could fit into the existing mechanics of the game. It's NOT about discussing the idea of PVP, I'm fully behind the devs putting 100% effot into pve until it's ready. At some point, however, this kind of thing could be a viable option for them to explore.

Anyway... perhaps not direct player model versus player model combat, but certainly a few new modes that are actively competitive.

Perhaps something like:

4v4.

Players spawn in large room with lots of enemies, each player has own spawn point.

For x amount of enemies killed, a data package is released from a random point in the map.

Data packages must be retreved and returned to your own spawn point.

While carrying data package you cannot fire and enemies are more aggressive toward you.

If you die while carrying the package, you drop it for another player to collect.

Respawn times after death.

Then base it either on amount of data packages retrieved.

Or when you retrieve a package, you're granted a points multiplier.

Final score based on either amount of packages retrieved or overall score based on points gathered for kills, amount of deaths (negative score), kills with varied weapon types, etc...

Perhaps limit energy skills so they can only be used after specific actions, such as retrieval of x packages, or x kills, or just limit energy drops.

Perhaps have the same points that release data modules release random power ups or ammo resupplies or even rare drops for everyone to fight over.

Of course, this would require balancing of skills so that certain frames weren't chosen all the time, but, hey, that kind of balance is something we want to see anyway!

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What ideas do you have for potential pvp that could fit with the current gameplay? I'd love to read some creative ideas from you guys!

Edited January 16, 2013 by Zakalwe

[Frosty]

For x amount of enemies killed, a data package is released from a random point in the map.

Sounds contrived and pointless.

[Zakalwe]

Sounds contrived and pointless.

Exellent response. I'm glad we have you on our forums!

[Vahnkiljoy]

I know it's not adding to the thread but at least bumping it, ANOTHER pvp thread to add to the mix. There are plenty of pvp games out there, I want this game to be pure pve coop, they are so effing rare nowadays.

[Zakalwe]

Please avoid discussion of "should we have pvp or shouldnt' we".

This is more about the idea of considering how a pvp mode could work considering the way the game mechanics are.

I'm fully behind the idea of putting 100% of dev time behind pve until the game is ready, but there's absolutley no reason to write off some kind of more competitive play at some point in the future..

[Vexama]

Yea if its about a focus within the game I would rather they focused on making PvE even more amazing and maybe implement PvP when there is nothing left to do (which would be quite a long time). Its a decent idea and would definitely put a twist in the game but I dont think it should be implemented in Warframe.

What your talking about is kind of a individual scale Team Fortress with monsters instead of players but competing against the squad is what im picturing. Pretty much a different game with the same models.

[Zakalwe]

People DO like competitive play, and while I don't think direct pvp would suit this game, there are certainly ways to implement more competitive modes that would retain player interest past end game.

Something like this could easily be worked into lore as a training program for tenno, too.

Edited January 15, 2013 by Zakalwe

[Chrysalis]

Sounds contrived and pointless.

If only there were a "thanks" button on this forum. You should quote the whole post though...

In case I'm not clear, I'm annoyed by the countless droves of posts about adding PvP at ANY point in time. I think we should focus on what's in the game for the moment, and how to balance/increase the fun of that. Let the devs think about PvP at a much later date. At least the OP had reasonable ideas and typed in a coherent manner. That's far more than I can say for a number of people on this forum. Sorry to hate on your thread, Zakalwe...

[Zakalwe]

Sorry to hate on your thread, Zakalwe...

Sigh.

I understand your frustration to the droves of "dis game ned pvp, lol" type posts, but I do wish you guys would actually respond to this thread like I requested.

Once more: this is about discussing the idea of how to make some kind of pvp work, not should we have it at all.

[MILFHUNTER]

Not to rain on your parade OP but maintaining PvP costs a lot of time and resources, and would likely strain DE even further (since they are independently financed).

Why? Look at all games, like LoL and SC2. Despite being completely different games, balance has always been an issue, requiring a dedicated team to monitor balance and set out updates.

Not that PvP is a bad idea, it just seems that it's not feasible, or at least not yet (if Warframe does turn out to be very huge then maybe).

So instead of pondering and suggesting <hypothetical> improvements, why not give feedback for what there is currently and how to improve on things we have?

[Zakalwe]

Not to rain on your parade OP but maintaining PvP costs a lot of time and resources, and would likely strain DE even further (since they are independently financed).

Why? Look at all games, like LoL and SC2. Despite being completely different games, balance has always been an issue, requiring a dedicated team to monitor balance and set out updates.

Not that PvP is a bad idea, it just seems that it's not feasible, or at least not yet (if Warframe does turn out to be very huge then maybe).

So instead of pondering and suggesting <hypothetical> improvements, why not give feedback for what there is currently and how to improve on things we have?

Double sigh.

Why can't we just discuss this without stating the obvious over and over?

The OP clearly states this isn't an idea for immediate implementation, just to discuss the idea of how this kind of thing could potentially fit at some point.

Is there anyone on this forum who isn't going to knee jerk and miss the point? :s

PS - I feedback on the main game plenty, there's time enough for both.

[Volt_Cruelerz]

I appreciate your ideas. May I ask if killing the other team is possible and if so, does it count towards your points?

[Zakalwe]

I appreciate your ideas. May I ask if killing the other team is possible and if so, does it count towards your points?

Well, this specific idea would be to avoid direct player versus player combat. The problem with that in Warframe you'd need to severely rebalance all the energy skills, or remove them entirely from pvp, and if you did that you'd lose a lot of the charm.

I do think more tradtional pvp would be possible in Warframe, but it would require a lot of dev time and effort so it's certainly not for now.

[Frosty]

You should quote the whole post though...

Why? The whole point is that I wasn't criticizing the whole thing or PvP in general. I pointed out a specific aspect that's too arbitrary and contrived. Why would a data package be released from a random point on the map if you kill X enemies? That's just nonsense.

[Kittygoesmeow]

... straight PvP wouldnt work in warframe. a DoTA style might though, where there are two mirrored maps that both end in reactor cores and core nodes can only be broken one at a time.

[Aggh]

Why? The whole point is that I wasn't criticizing the whole thing or PvP in general. I pointed out a specific aspect that's too arbitrary and contrived. Why would a data package be released from a random point on the map if you kill X enemies? That's just nonsense.

Why do blue balls of energy and red balls that heal you drop from enemies when you kill them?

... straight PvP wouldnt work in warframe. a DoTA style might though, where there are two mirrored maps that both end in reactor cores and core nodes can only be broken one at a time.

Derp. I've suggested a tower defense style PvP piles of times already. But too many people are busy getting butthurt about their preconceptions about what the devs want to do in the long term.

Edited January 16, 2013 by Aggh

[Kittygoesmeow]

Derp. I've suggested a tower defense style PvP piles of times already. But too many people are busy getting butthurt about their preconceptions about what the devs want to do in the long term.

... it wouldnt really be PvP because it would be corpus vs grineer with teams of three tenno to a faction. tenno wouldnt be able to kill each other, just teleport each other back to the spawn when their shield is down.

the fact is the devs dont WANT player verus player, but a competition of some kind would be great. they could make a platforming level to that effect and reward players for time trials.

[MrWednesday]

I'd imagine somesort of a race.

4 players enter 4 dungeon tunnels, their goal is to reach the end/finish line of the tunnel before the time runs out. The tunnels are filled with monsters, limited light, burning fuel barrels, defending turrets, ect. that could be a difficulty to get through. There'd be 3 - 4 doors that need to be hacked (and they are very hard, not something you'd normaly see in PvE), so players ought to clear out the mobs first. If players failed to hack, turrets will attacked them, and they'd need to take them down first before attempting another try. Players are also unawared of other players' progress in the dungeon, so they don't just quit mid game.

When the match finished, players are rewared with keys to unlock "treasure chests", the number of keys are based on their position. Also, the rarity of the items are subjected on their dificulty levels. To mention, there'd be 4 difficulty levels, so new players won't be overpowerd.

Now PvE mechanisim could be applied. For example: the more "hack points" the players get in PvE, the more time he/she has to hack doors in PvP. Or the more turrets players taken down, they are more unlikely to be targeted by turrets. etc

English is not my first language, and if u dont how to read my name it's Matt.

Edited January 16, 2013 by matkiencan138

[_Tensik_]

Coming from the MOBA community, I can see a potential PvP mode that has a MOBA feel to it. Seeing how clans are going to be present in the game this can also turn into a competitive side for the hardcore gamers and gaming teams.

Map - A single level (no elevators) map which consists of two sides connected by 1-2 hallways (which can further be randomly generated withen these boundaries).

Objective - Either kill the opposing team's Cryopod on the other side of the map or hunt and wipe out the other team by going through the one of the two pathways. Players will also use points they will gain in each match to help get the advantage of the match.

Features:

PvP Revives - Aside from the 4 revives we get daily, the players are also given a number of PvP revives for each match. This can be enhanced by warframe mods in exchange for giving up other warframe mods. Once a player is all out of PvP revives diring a match, he is dead until the end of the round.

AI waves - In addition to the players, AI waves spawn every 15-30 seconds which begin to attack move towards the enemy Cryopod. The waves will consist of the basic units in all three races (most likely 2 of each) and will split up between the two pathways to reach the opposing Cryopod. In addition, these units will give points which you can use in the shop to change the tide of the match.

Objectives - These specific objects are to give opportunities to gain additional points which can be used for the shop. Things such as retreiving a data console(the one where you hack the machine with the green buttons) from the middle of a pathway. Of course this will cause strategical thinking about whether it is worth trying to retreive since the opposing team can kill you.

Cryopod Shop - Beside the Cryopod will consist of a Unit Shop and a Upgrade shop. Like their names, the unit shop will consist of all the staple elite units of each race (Grineer Bombard, Shockwave Moa, Ancient Disruptor, etc.) which can be purshased by the points gained from kills and objectives completed. The Upgrade Shop consists of upgrades for both AI waves and your team. This can provide upgrades such as damage amplifiers to energy regeneration to higher shield capacity.

The prices of both shops will be high enough to have a set strategy rather than encouraging spamming.

Although this may seem like a stretch, it does somewhat stick with the feel of the game or maybe it's just wishful thinking. If this game were to ever have a PvP option, I think this mode would appeal to the casual and competitive players.

Edited January 16, 2013 by hungn93