De's Word And Its Lack Of Integrity: Another Viewpoint From Another Long-Time Player

[Xikiri]

!IMPORTANT!

Please view the bottom section for updates regarding things that are crossed out and with asterisks next to them. Due to new info that is over a week old, a lot of this post has been debunked. Why the below link wasn't shown to me before now so that I could properly revise this post is beyond me. 

 

For sheer example, I'm going to use Excalibur's situation as the exhibit (simply because of how incredibly easy it is to do so, considering the past 48 hours). Let's look at what is known as "ViverGate," as well as before and after. 

 

 

1) Excalibur's Radial Javelin was a bunch of Skana-like physical...things that jetted out from him as he struck the ground. There was an enemy cap, but it was still a radial attack. This meant as long as enemies and Excalibur were in direct line-of-sight someone was being impaled.

 

2) DE buffs Radial Javelin by removing the target limit. This meant as long as there was no physical obstruction, EVERYTHING was getting impaled.

 

2.5) DE states they would lessen the grind (many times, if I remember correctly).

 

3) DE buffs Excalibur by removing all LoS requirements from Radial Javelin as well as giving it a stun. This made Excalibur more versatile.

     - note -   This was implemented due to the changes made or were to be made to Radial Blind at the time.

 

4) With no decrease of grind in sight, players learn to use this new gameplay asset as a means to take matters in their own hands and remove much of the grind their own way. Regardless if you view the methods as unruly or not, DE did this to themselves in a plethora of ways. Three of which are listed below.

      a- Lack of testing out new mechanics and game modes before implementation

      b- Lack of following through with their word in decreasing the grind, as per many a statement

      c- Creating another grindwall instead of implementing a different and more rewarding system

 

5 - ViverGate) DE responds to 4 (I promise that wasn't planned) by going on a massive nerf spree of multiple Warframes. This put into place a very buggy and widely unaccepted line-of-sight requirement upon all of the frames to multiple extents, essentially making each frame a liability in his or her own way(s). 

     *[it seems as though LoS has a multitude of settings. First being the most basic: within the sight of the frame.

      Second, the pinpoint accurate: The crosshair has to be on the target before the ability can be used effectively.

      Third, the on-camera: Whatever it is being targeted, it was to be on the screen to be affected. Otherwise, the

      ability either won't be used effectively or cannot be cast (mostly the former). Fourth, the "unintentional" Radial

      Blind nerf: Despite all efforts, the line-of-sight was incredibly inaccurate, unrealistic, and debilitating. *The current

      setting we have for Rad Jav is Three, which is a topic I'm soon to get to.]

 

6 - Post ViverGate) After the unjustified nerfing of multiple frames, the community lashed out with an uproar louder than I've ever heard...metaphorically. This uproar caused DE to rescind their nerfs on each frame after about three days.

 

*7) Over the past 48 hours, Excalibur was singled out via stealth nerf. This change that was intentionally left out of the Update 16 patch notes to avoid the backlash that was mentioned earlier. Furthermore, this was done against the statement mentioned in point 3.

 

!UPDATE!: As of March 21, 2015, true clarity regarding the changes to Excalibur's Radial Javelin as well as the reasoning behind the lack of patch note information, shown here - https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/422796-psa-radial-javelin-unlisted-changes/?p=4692175

Assuming it was truly unintentional to leave things out or stealth-nerf, this post will require some revisions if not entirely be altered. As of this edit, everything in this post is subject to change. 

 

 

 

 

Let's recap:

DE buffs Rad Jav due to changes to another ability

DE takes away due to rep farms taking advantage of an immediately broken system

DE re-buffs Rad Jav due to their knowing it was a mistake

DE takes away because of God-knows-what (some speculate E Gate) and is now worse than the original Rad Jav with the target cap

DE claims it is now working as intended

 

 

 

I'm going to get one thing out of the way before I continue. I don't appreciate being lied to. We know very well just how that last part is untrue. Radial Javelin isn't working as intended. But let's assume for argument's sake that this is the truth. If this is true, then we were lied to about the buff being in place due to Radial Blind's changes. One way or another, DE, you have put yourselves into a tight and uncomfortable corner. The more times you yo-yo your way in and out of situations like these in the unprofessional manner you do, the harder it's going to be to keep your fanbase. Notice how I didn't use the word "happy" to end that previous sentence. That comment is working as intended, as with these back-and-forths you keep doing...you're pushing people away. And lying to your fanbase makes none of this any better.

You are a company. You are an entity that advertises a product. You should now be acting professional. This isn't professional. It's old.

You're making claims you can't/won't uphold. (Remember when we were told before U14 that we would have fantastic controller support "...out of the box"? I do. It's U16 and that's still not a thing.)

You make hasty decisions with absolutely no planning and even less foresight as to the effects these decisions. (Having any less than 0 is never a good thing.)

The game performs worse and worse with each update released. (Has anyone seen the end of the memory leak? This is a genuine question, as I've not heard whether or not that's been fixed.)

And the problem is, if I were to make all notable examples of each of the situations given, this post simply would not end within a reasonable amount of time. The only promise I recall you upholding to date was the Founder's situation and how Excalibur Prime will never return. At this point, the only reason I know this won't happen is because of legal reasons.

 

For some, this is just a tiny change. Who cares, right?

For many, this is the straw that broke the camel's back.

For all, this should be a concern.

 

Digital Extremes, I beg of-- No, I implore you, please take a moment to look at yourselves, take a look your actions, and think about how each word you type on the forums and each claim you speak on the camera will come back to haunt you. It isn't too late to do so, and it won't be too late for a while. But your game, your masterpiece -- YOUR BABY for Pete's sake. It's hurting. Furthermore, and I'm sorry to say this, but in reference to the title...this is also damaging the integrity of your word. I and MANY upon MANY others have caught you giving claims to which you cannot hold true. It's becoming increasingly difficult to trust you, and I am not the only one who feels the same way. And, honestly? I can't be bought back with the same shtick like last time, because for me, this was the straw to the camel whose back is broken. Despite this, I'll still be keeping up with the game's development in hopes that things do change course.

 

Note: I will edit if something else comes to mind. It's likely what is here is not my final word on the subject, but my stance is firm and unwavering. 

 

TL;DR - In light of recent and not-so-recent events, it's become even more increasingly difficult to trust in Digital Extremes. I genuinely beg of you to retract some of your actions and hold true to your word, because this nonsense is getting out of hand and will eventually be the end of Warframe if this continues. Though, I hope someone actually reads the entirety of this because I've never been good with TL;DRs and it's hard to summarize this wall of text.

 

 

 

EDIT 1: Punctuation, grammar

EDIT 2: SECONDARY DISCLAIMER

Because for some reason I need to clarify... NO. This isn't because of the changes that were made. I repeat, this post is not a thing for the express reason that Excalibur's 4 requires on-screen LoS. I'll reiterate once more -- This, is, not, because, I, now, find, Excalibur, to, be, fairly, useless. One (I suppose technically two, but that's beside the point) of the many reasons this was posted how these changes were made and that the changes were made in a shady manner and against their previous statements. The circumstances of these changes do not justify the means and as already stated...it's entirely unprofessional. If all you're going to do is say "QQ more lmao," then I'll civilly and respectfully ask you right now to please withhold your comment and wait until you have valid contribution. 

Edited March 31, 2015 by [DE]Drew
Edited to comply with the community rules.

[Demiax]

I agree... no trust will be given. The community should not trust DE anymore, I find it quite disturbing how they listen less to their players than they do a potato... I mean seriously... you guys your treating us like we have wronged you or something... 

Edited March 30, 2015 by Demiax

[tinyranitar]

Chroma also seems to be a conspiracy to me. DE gives it a ridiculous design that they know will be hated by majority, then prepare a mediocre appearance before hand. After the forum rage, DE throw out the mediocre design, which, by comparison, better than the Anteater, and bask in the light of "I listen to player base".

[IceDragonofAmber]

I'd just like to point out that DE has been working to decrease the grind. Just because they nerfed one ability doesn't mean they're not.

[RahuHordika]

I have to agree, I don't like to bash on DE but this was one of the worst things they could have done.

They literally mentioned the removal of Javelin LoS in: a Devstream, forum thread and patch notes. It was acknowledged by them as an official, public change.

Yet now they do this for no reason and have the guts to tell us that Javelin was never working as intended when themselves outright stated otherwise a while ago.

Did they forget about it? Did they think we had forgotten about it? I don't like to say DE is taking us for fools but that note Megan made in the latest patch notes is making a very rude and insulting assumption about the community.

Had they outright stated the change and a reason behind it there would be less flak, but instead they flat-out lie on way or another.

(Edit: Minor typos)

Edited March 23, 2015 by RahuStalker

[(PSN)TheArrowOfGod]

This was so true one manly tear rolled down my face. With every sentence I had a rush in my heart and by the and I turned off warframe because It made me too sad to play.

[(PSN)TheArrowOfGod]

I'd just like to point out that DE has been working to decrease the grind. Just because they nerfed one ability doesn't mean they're not.

Decrease the grind by nerfing rare core drops and nerfing credits in the void?

[--.B.--HARDCOREDAVE-]

We can only hope its not to late for things to change for the better.

[Anunymau5]

I'd just like to point out that DE has been working to decrease the grind. Just because they nerfed one ability doesn't mean they're not.

You're right because nerfing the void and dark sector credits rewards by 50% and having Chroma's parts require other Warframe components is clearly decreasing the grind.

[SquirmyBurrito]

I'd just like to point out that DE has been working to decrease the grind. Just because they nerfed one ability doesn't mean they're not.

 

I'd love to see what all this effort has produced. As far as I can tell, they've been making the grind worse at every turn.

[Invisum]

Yeah, I unfortunately have to agree... DE's current actions and words do not do much to inspire confidence or foster integrity.

 

Also, I just made a (less strongly worded) topic about this that has the relevant quotes if you want to avoid digging through patch notes.

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/422005-communicating-changes-and-responding-to-the-community/?p=4683896

[Hrodgrim]

We can only hope its not to late for things to change for the better.

Or we could take action. Petitions, boycotts, etc; anything to be heard. I really want to love DE like I used to, but the bad is beginning to outweigh the good. Not in terms of content or things added to the game, but in terms of how disregarded we seem to be anymore.

[LythronaxPrime]

I'd just like to point out that DE has been working to decrease the grind. Just because they nerfed one ability doesn't mean they're not.

How have they in any way at all decreased the grind? It's worse than ever now, what with void and dark sector credit rewards being cut in half.

Also let's not forget enchantments,almost unnoticeable buffs that have a ridiculously low chance to occur, you can add all this for the low low cost of 500,000 credits.

And let's not forget the fact that you can apply these a maximum of ten times to an item which will make it 4 times as powerful as the base version (still incredibly underwhelming) and what does maxing an enchantment cost? Nothing less than FIVE MILLION credits.

For some reason DE loves to say they want to cut down on the grind when in EVERY SINGLE UPDATE they add exponentially more grind, it's completely absurd and I'm starting to get pissed at them.

[--.B.--HARDCOREDAVE-]

I'd love to see what all this effort has produced. As far as I can tell, they've been making the grind worse at every turn.

the effort that was produced was the superficial satisfaction of a newer player base but the growing and deeper dissatisfaction and rage of the loyal veteran player base that spent huge amounts of plat to support the game we believed in. Don't get me wrong new content is always okay but the detrimental after effects of the more core mechanics of the game and the issues that really need to be resolved being ignored why I know the reality that this community is giving DE a hard time in creating the best decisions for the community as a whole but can they at least realize that some decisions really have a HUGE IMPACT in the longer run and may even lessen the success warframe as a game can accomplish.

[(PSN)iBoiz]

I'd say the only reason De buffed Radial Javelin was so that people won't complain about Radial Blind nerf.

Now that people calmed down about RB its time to un-buff the Radial Javelin back to lof.

[LABAL]

 

Is this some sort of joke? 

 

From what I recall, the reason Radial Blind was nerfed in the first place is that it completely overshadowed Radial Javelin in every way. The changes in U13 toned down Blind's effectiveness and turned Javelin into a reliable, but weaker, form of crowd control.

This was good. Both abilities were viable in terms of utility without one completely overpowering the other. For the first time, every single one of Excal's abilities were viable in late game.

 

But now? Both of these abilities have a LoS check, and the latter seems to even have a direction-of-camera check as well. Not only is Radial Javelin arguably more pathetic than it was prior to U13, but now Radial Blind doesn't even have the effectiveness it once had to make up for that!

Until U13, the general consensus was that Excalibur was very underpowered with Blind being his only redeeming factor.

Well, guess what. Excalibur is currently even weaker than pre-U13 because both Blind and Javelin have seen almost nothing but nerfs.

 

The utility boosts that Slash Dash and Super Jump were given since U13 are very nice and were sorely needed. But this does not make up for his best ability being hammered down on and his already-crappy ultimate being made even worse.

 

Once again, post and repost. Relevant or not. This time relevant.

[LABAL]

The main problem of warframe: DE stick to financial model of "time = money" in their own very special way. They make you grind more and more and more and more until you get so frustrated that you actually buy stuff. And they are afraid to change anything because they fear that they will no longer get paid. (Wrote "paind" as a typo. Ironically.)

Edited March 21, 2015 by LABAL

[Cpl_Facehugger]

I'd just like to point out that DE has been working to decrease the grind. Just because they nerfed one ability doesn't mean they're not.

 

How?

 

They meganerfed syndicate keys. They halved effective syndicate rep gains and forced players to grind medallions instead. Mesa has the Alad mutalist coordinate grind with extra RNG sauce. The new claw stance is a rare drop from manics. Manics, as far as I can tell, only spawn once per mission outside of raids. (Note I haven't hunted for manics in endless missions yet so this might be in error.) They make more and more new weapons and frames require other weapons to build. And that's just off the top of my head.

 

Like the only counterpoint I can think of is reversing the decision to have Hek gated behind keys. Which to be fair is a good thing. But it's nowhere near enough. That and oxium drop buffs.

 

I know that DE makes dosh off grinding and I don't begrudge them that, but does it really have to be so arduous?

Edited March 21, 2015 by Cpl_Facehugger

[Voaster]

I agree with this sentiment, I didnt make a post because I felt my cynicism with Warframe was making me too biased. I'm glad someone else feels similar to me. I really want to like DE, I really want to keep liking warframe, but they keep making it harder.

Edited March 21, 2015 by Voaster

[Valkyr-Umbra]

OP +1

 

This change feels very underhanded to me. There is NO WAY they just forgot to include this change in the patch notes, its the most controversial change they've done in ages, and they definitely knew there would be an outcry. Their fessing up to it in an attempt at communication (by DE Megan, one of the more highly regarded members of their staff by the community) seems like a shameless attempt at pr to me.

 

Your language is a little stronger than what I would have chosen to use, but it does seem to embody what a lot of people feel in response to this move by DE. I don't even care that much about rep farms, I care about my warframes being viable to play and DE taking community feedback into account/not shoving their agenda down our collective throats.

 

Please keep this thread alive guys, if you like what OP says, then make a post and show support.

[Nosferagon]

OP+1

 

Ever since the syndicate void key fiasco that i personally feel this is true. being lied in something that i have dedicated a lot of my time hurts.

[CBAROG]

The way DE handle things is becoming more and more out of touch with every update. I hate to say it but "Year of Quality"?

[tinyranitar]

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/421963-seen-this-on-reddit/

 

My post here. Look like every fanbase, from Forum, Reddit and Facebook is raging over this. I don't use twitter so I don't know.

[Siubijeni]

DE is extraordinarily underhanded, I agree. I haven't trusted anything they've said in some time. I had hoped during my seven month absence that they had wizened up, but they are worse than ever before. It is outrageous that they would make a claim as absurd as this nerf being a "fix," with how long its been that way and all their previous statements.

 

This has been advertised as their year of quality... but its certainly lacking. The game just keeps getting worse and worse. They've promised to lessen the grind so many times, but does it ever happen? No, the opposite did. How the hell do they justify halving the credit rewards from Dark Sectors and the Void? How the hell do they justify the Void Trader's huge expenses and the horrid state of this game's economy? What about the state of the Raid and its extraordinarily sh**ty rewards?

 

I am of the opinion that a boycott of Warframe is in order. Not just a single day, either. DE has screwed up big time, and they need a big time message to understand how badly they have messed this up. At least three days. Maybe even an entire week.

 

Got on Reddit and posted a temporary boycott proposal, here.

Edited March 21, 2015 by Siubijeni

[HibikiGanaha]

Stealth nerfs have been happening weeks before U16 without making it into the patch notes.

 

One was the nerf of alert interceptions to 4 waves. (changed down to 2)

 

Another was the nerf of requiring all three pieces of data in spy 2.0 alerts. (still not addressed)

 

Who really knows how many more stealth nerfs we are going to uncover?  So far there's Excalibur, Kohm, Void credits, and Dark sector credits just in U16.

 

How many more times is DE going to leave important changes out of the patch notes? (lies of omission)