Auramaru Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 (edited) After numerous games of just pulverizing players in a four-man premade in PVP, it's very obvious that the current spawn system needs work - a LOT of work. This is a screenshot from last night, this wasn't even our "best" match: Current problems: 1) Spawning players have no clue what's going on around them or where they are 2) Spawning players spawn in the open, so enemy instantly has better vantage point. 3) Spawning players spawn at the same exact time, giving camping players better control of the camp. My ideas: -Make spawning players completely invisible/banished for 3 seconds prior to spawning so that they can move around (choosing where to spawn) and see what's happening without interacting with enemy players. -Give spawning players a safe-zone. This needs immediate attention, as spawn camping is way too easy to perform as an organized group. (This of course goes hand-in-hand with the idea that premades shouldn't be matched with individual players.) Edited April 10, 2015 by AuraMau Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mastikator2 Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 Good ideas! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinKenshin Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 a safe zone is the way to go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auramaru Posted April 10, 2015 Author Share Posted April 10, 2015 a safe zone is the way to go I think if there is a safe zone, it would have to have a great number of exits, It can't be like the Dark Sector "safe zone" (with one exit) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mastikator2 Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 I think if there is a safe zone, it would have to have a great number of exits, It can't be like the Dark Sector "safe zone" (with one exit) Indeed, 5 or more that doesn't have any LOS between them, to make sure players can always enter without being seen. Ninja and all that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nlim Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 I don´t like safe zones - usually they are even easier to camp (probably not in Warframe though ult spam at exit could potentially be annoying) since people are dedicated to certain exits and they slow down gameplay and reduces varriety by centering plays around evryone having a similiar starting point (I guess this can be adressed but the potential solution like multiple safe zones for both teams strike me as unwieldly). Invisibility sounds fine on paper but getting shot by someone you couldn´t see coming doesn´t sounds like fun. Already entering the enemy "territory" is somewhat of a risk because someone could spawn behind you - it would be even worse if you can´t see the spawn. I guess what partly annoys me about the issue is that the current system is fine as long one knows what one has to do to escape. So maybe incentivce people doing this instead - like maybe a strong speed buff for 2 seconds when starting to move or slightly increase the time of invulnerability while moving & making it clear with the UI that attacking loses this (too many people let themself bait into taken shots at respawn which will get them killed) On a side note one easier/smaller to adress issue regarding this would be fixing Mags Shield Polarize ignoring invulnerability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Talia. Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 I don't like the idea of ''safe spawn zones'' they tried it in the past with the Dark Sector Conflicts and it didn't work. I agree with everything else said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aodan Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 (edited) To play off your "banish" I think, this is the best opportunity. 3sec after revive, they can move in an ethereal form then either after clicking the fire button or 3sec, they will "spawn" in. They can see other players, but enemy players cant see them. In the ethereal form, they can't attack. Which simply give them 3sec to tactically place themselves Thus this punishes spawn camping and gives the recently dead player, a fighting chance to regain control I don't think a "safe zone" method is viable, cause then you can have ppl staying in there which ruins the pace. Also a safe zone would take a lot more and wouldnt be effective in FFA/TDM modes Edited April 10, 2015 by Aodan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorinar Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 I'd prefer a more dynamic spawning mechanism around creating distance between freshly spawned players and enemies and preferring placing you near allies. The current capture maps don't lend themselves to this for a few reasons, but expanding the side areas could provide more places to spawn further from enemies and still equidistant to the goal. But then another part of me says that if one team is spawn camping and not pushing the objective, they deserve for the enemy team to be closer to their own objective and would at least get the match back on track instead of being just a pubstomp (which is not a healthy component for any pvp game). And I can't help looking at your screencap and mention of multiple matches like this and just wonder at the longevity of Conclave. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zerogear5 Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 invisible spawning along with invincibility would fix this, also moving the mouse should not make you active but pressing any button should. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auramaru Posted April 10, 2015 Author Share Posted April 10, 2015 I personally thought the Invisible + Banished + able to move for 5 seconds is the most efficient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kontrollo Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 To the OP: What we're seeing here isn't just a problem with organised teams against randoms. It's also you guys unwilling to play the actual mission objectives and instead opt to turn it into a TDM because you know you have the upper hand. I've been on both sides (winning/losing) in games like this, and it was never a fun experience. It's clear that one of your enemies left after a while out of frustration. Sometimes I wished I could kick our own flag holder over a ledge just to end a stomp like that. (And I don't play in organised teams because that's exactly what I don't play the Conclave for.) Don't stall your games. All it does is turn people away from PvP because it's not a fun experience to have to sit it out for a chance at some rewards. I agree with your first idea, though. That or we should at least get a lot more spawn points in different places of the maps, so the spawns are not so easy to predict. And I agree that premade teams should only be matched with premade teams. Safe zones aren't a good solution, in my opinion. If any of you guys has played Planetside 2, you probably know why I feel that way. invisible spawning along with invincibility would fix this, also moving the mouse should not make you active but pressing any button should. Right now you have 5 seconds of invincibility where you can look around and assess your situation. You're losing it only after making a move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auramaru Posted April 10, 2015 Author Share Posted April 10, 2015 To the OP: What we're seeing here isn't just a problem with organised teams against randoms. It's also you guys unwilling to play the actual mission objectives and instead opt to turn it into a TDM because you know you have the upper hand. I've been on both sides (winning/losing) in games like this, and it was never a fun experience. It's clear that one of your enemies left after a while out of frustration. Sometimes I wished I could kick our own flag holder over a ledge just to end a stomp like that. (And I don't play in organised teams because that's exactly what I don't play the Conclave for.) Don't stall your games. All it does is turn people away from PvP because it's not a fun experience to have to sit it out for a chance at some rewards. I agree with your first idea, though. That or we should at least get a lot more spawn points in different places of the maps, so the spawns are not so easy to predict. And I agree that premade teams should only be matched with premade teams. Safe zones aren't a good solution, in my opinion. If any of you guys has played Planetside 2, you probably know why I feel that way. Right now you have 5 seconds of invincibility where you can look around and assess your situation. You're losing it only after making a move. As of now, there is no downsides to pummeling people further. You get more conclave rep and you get a better KD. Why player's would put an end to an opportunity like that is beyond me. Players shouldn't be blamed or punished for performing actions that the developers have allowed them to. Stalling games will also continue until DE implements cephalon carrier limitations. There are many things wrong in PVP, but the one I'm addressing is the spawns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aggh Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 (edited) As of now, there is no downsides to pummeling people further. You get more conclave rep and you get a better KD. Why player's would put an end to an opportunity like that is beyond me. Players shouldn't be blamed or punished for performing actions that the developers have allowed them to. Stalling games will also continue until DE implements cephalon carrier limitations. There are many things wrong in PVP, but the one I'm addressing is the spawns. Ikr? Who cares if you'll kill peoples' interest in a game mode that the general population of warframe has long held in contempt. YOU NEED SYNDICATE REP. Enjoy using it to buy items that can only be used in a mode which the behavior you're defending will kill interest in. Edited April 10, 2015 by Aggh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kontrollo Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 As of now, there is no downsides to pummeling people further. You get more conclave rep and you get a better KD. Why player's would put an end to an opportunity like that is beyond me. Players shouldn't be blamed or punished for performing actions that the developers have allowed them to. Stalling games will also continue until DE implements cephalon carrier limitations. There are many things wrong in PVP, but the one I'm addressing is the spawns. There is a downside. People who don't have fun don't return to play again. Sure you get some short term benefits out of it, but why do you think the old PvP system was neglected for so long? Because only a minority actually cared for it. It's stuff like this that turns people away. I agree players shouldn't be punished for it, it's clearly not an exploit. However, I'm going to call people out on it whether you like it or not. And I agree with you, the spawn system could use some improvements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auramaru Posted April 11, 2015 Author Share Posted April 11, 2015 (edited) There is a downside. People who don't have fun don't return to play again. Sure you get some short term benefits out of it, but why do you think the old PvP system was neglected for so long? Because only a minority actually cared for it. It's stuff like this that turns people away. I agree players shouldn't be punished for it, it's clearly not an exploit. However, I'm going to call people out on it whether you like it or not. And I agree with you, the spawn system could use some improvements. Fair enough. I actually sincerely thank you for ending your post on topic (I'm not being sarcastic or anything.) Edited April 11, 2015 by Haldos Cleaning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monster-T Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 3 seconds beeing banished after you have spawned should imho be enough. Invisibility + Invincibility would be imho too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kontrollo Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 Fair enough. I actually sincerely thank you for ending your post on topic (I'm not being sarcastic or anything.) Yeah, it wasn't my intention to derail the thread. I've just had another idea: How about the initial 5 second invulnerability works like Shatter Shield and reflects all incoming damage (probably except AoE powers, those should just have no effect at all)? That way you'd have to be really careful when trying to kill your enemies right after spawning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danfu Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 (edited) Dude, you just wrecked a whole team of scrubs with an organized team, that's not really fair.I think you even made it into a deathmatch too.Its akin to making a smurf account on a game like LOL just to destroy new ppl with no skill.Those results would never happen with skilled or semiskilled players unless your amazing...(No Offense).The spawning system does need heavy reworking though.The invisibility+banish sounds good Edited April 12, 2015 by Danfu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KittyDarkling Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 I feel you're right that there's a very real issue here, but I think I have a better solution. Your system wouldn't provide a much better approach then the one we have now, it'd still be a victim to lag, and load times. Players need to be able to remain in a stasis state, that is to say invulnerable, unable to deal damage, unable to capture Cephlons, ect until they move. The affect should last a second or two after they move. This allows them to look around and get an idea what's going on, type a message, invite a friend ect without being shot on spawn. Then all they need to do is move! and in a second or two their truly "in the game" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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