Stealth And Ai System Broken Beyond Belief

[Lord_Xenon]

AND AGAIN: Drahk hunted me from the start without anything happend after 10s! This is so ridiculous.

[Mama_Sasha]

Lots of people seems to having this problem.Lets recap on what we know so far.

 

1:The Drakk Masters and his Pig dogs, around 8 out of 10 times, they will hunt you down, and can cause alarms if the targeted player has a sentinal without a silencer on.

 

2:When going to new rooms, a random selected enemy unit will know you exit, even if he or she hasnt seen or heard you.

 

3:When remained silent and hidden for a certain period of time, all enemies will know your existance.

 

4: Rollers have an unatural degree of vision, and they can somehow alert their Grineer masters while The Drakk and his pig dogs cant.

 

How long has this bug existed? Long before Damage 2.0 even was a thing.

[WolvenEdge]

Sorry, Cebius. ;w; Yes, I quoted the wrong person. I meant this guy;

 

This isn't useful either. I'm running with aggro Carrier and so his shotgun alarm the Grineer around as fast as the Drahk running next to me. And I don't want to go only melee/non attacking Sentinel just for such broken enemies.

[Mama_Sasha]

Sorry, Cebius. ;w; Yes, I quoted the wrong person. I meant this guy;

No worries, we all make mistakes sometimes.

[Mama_Sasha]

Time for some updates, and this one is seriously stupid.

 

As of Update 17.0.4, one interesting thing has been added to the frustration factor for stealth.

 

Apparently, Grineer (and sometimes Corpus) have now the ability to materialize themselves out of nowhere infront of you, ruining the stealth runs you do.

I mean, really...

Edited August 7, 2015 by Cebius

[motorfirebox]

Yeah, the spawn range for enemies since update 17 is incredibly short.

[motorfirebox]

Before the update, enemies would respect your personal space and do their best to not spawn in the same room as you, or at least spawn out towards the edge of their visual range. Now, it seems like enemies will spawn in a room as you open the door. I run with Enemy Radar pretty much constantly, and at least once per mission I'll go up to a door, check the radar for mobs, open the door, and watch them spawn.

 

Can we get them spawning further away, like they were doing before the update? It's making stealth runs... well, I'd say "hard", but let's go with "even more impossibler".

[ZoMbi656]

Hm.., it was here all time - spawn enemies right near you... for example, I like that moments when you start hacking door to data vault and game decides to spawn someone in a meter behind (if you thinking that it just entered outside, I'm always take enemy sense to spy mission), and when you leave any room and receive bombard eximus on your head (literally).

 

(I already spoke about it somewhere?)

Edited August 7, 2015 by ZoMbi656

[Mxysptlik]

Before the update, enemies would respect your personal space and do their best to not spawn in the same room as you, or at least spawn out towards the edge of their visual range. Now, it seems like enemies will spawn in a room as you open the door. I run with Enemy Radar pretty much constantly, and at least once per mission I'll go up to a door, check the radar for mobs, open the door, and watch them spawn.

 

Can we get them spawning further away, like they were doing before the update? It's making stealth runs... well, I'd say "hard", but let's go with "even more impossibler".

 

^This. "More impossibler" hits the nail on the head.

 

DE, I'd play more often if problems like this didn't pop up with nearly every update. Worse yet is that recently, less and less of these things are being fixed. Please look into this and other problems, THEN work on new content. It would really help with the game as a whole if it had less issues effecting it's playability rather than more new content that (as new content will do) only brings more issues in turn.

[Mama_Sasha]

Another update incomming, and this one is, strange, but i tihnk we are getting to the core of the problem.

 

I was doing my ususaly stealth runs again, and what i saw, i think is the cause of the problem. While wathcing from up high, watching the

grineer patroll (its the tileset ont eh galeon where there is a hologram of planets in the room and 2 generators).

I was in a place where their eyes couldnt see me.

 

I watched as one grineer jumped to a higher platform to continue his patrol (while also talking to himself), but he disapears, without a trace

and his talk, cut to silence. Here is what happens next.

 

Everyone, suddenly knew of my existance and knew where i was.

 

First, we got enemeis that materialize out of nowhere, and now, we got enemies that disapears and alerts everyone.

This is getting silly, really....

Edited August 9, 2015 by Cebius

[Mxysptlik]

Just read ^This. I would LOVE to see a video of this, as it would be both hilarious and informative.

 

C'mon DE, check these forums once in awhile (and take them seriously). Sometimes I feel like we're all just here to talk to a wall so we'll feel better. Other times as if bugs get picked based on how easy they'd be to fix. :(

[WolvenEdge]

However, it seems the Drach are no longer uber-detectives. I ran into a group of them, and they didn't have a clue. Got stealth bonuses on all three. So, there's ONE problem fixed, at least... maybe. ;w;

 

As for enemy despawns, it might have something to do with the enemy watch code; watching your buddy die next to you is kind of a red flag. When I Dread or Paris Prime one Grineer who's talking to his buddy, his buddy will sit still for about three seconds, and then run toward the nearest console. It's why I put Shred on my bows; so I can either get them both, or get one and then the other while he's still stunned.

At least, that's how it works about half the time. Bows are nice because you can use them to scoot corpses out of public notice; less stealth problems... but that also introduces the issue of having some Grineer watching his buddy fly across the room on a 2-ton arrow-rocket thing. Perhaps when an enemy despawns, it triggers that same piece of code?

[Mama_Sasha]

Here is another problem that we talked about in this thread, but let me tell you one thing first.

I managed to get my hands on a so called ScreentoGIF program, that allows me to make gifs like these.

 

Anyways, ehre we see a MOA, showing how intelligent it is.

This isnt jsut the MOAs, but every enemies does this from time to time, mostly the Grineer.

This problem is pretty bad if you want to go stealth and want to aovid killing the enemies (For challanign reasons).

*It's all driven by sophisticated artificial intelligence*

Randy Pitchford.

Edited August 19, 2015 by Cebius

[Lord_Xenon]

Now I run a higher Tier spy grineer aaaaaaaand... roller. Those thing while seem 'unalerted' they roll into your direction stalking you(I even had the possibilty to 'bug' it out with rolling next to me but I was higher as it and so it couldn't reach me) with reaching you to roll over you to alert all around...

 

Does one know a gif program, that can be used on recorded videos? Because then I would try to record the Drahk/Roller issue?

[Mama_Sasha]

Now I run a higher Tier spy grineer aaaaaaaand... roller. Those thing while seem 'unalerted' they roll into your direction stalking you(I even had the possibilty to 'bug' it out with rolling next to me but I was higher as it and so it couldn't reach me) with reaching you to roll over you to alert all around...

 

Does one know a gif program, that can be used on recorded videos? Because then I would try to record the Drahk/Roller issue?

you can use the same one i use. it actualy records waht you see on your screen (and you can mark it by draggint he program's window).

https://screentogif.codeplex.com

 

here is the program. its free too

[MokutoBunshi]

I play two types of stealth.

The First:

Stealth as usual, silent take downs, silent weapons.

The Second:

Run in guns blazing and kill everything before they hit the alarms

 

I've never had this issue, but I can see how this would be frustrating, with both types.

 

I may have had that is.... wait... that happened earlier! I even have pictures from that mission XD.

 

It was a suda spy mission for the most rank points I could grab before that 4 minutes was up and the missions re-set.

 

and yeah, it is annoying that that would happen on a NINJA game.

 

 

]\'[okuto Bunshi

 

Peace Out.

[Macframe]

 

Here is another problem that we talked about in this thread, but let me tell you one thing first.

I managed to get my hands on a so called ScreentoGIF program, that allows me to make gifs like these.

 

Anyways, ehre we see a MOA, showing how intelligent it is.

This isnt jsut the MOAs, but every enemies does this from time to time, mostly the Grineer.

This problem is pretty bad if you want to go stealth and want to aovid killing the enemies (For challanign reasons).

*It's all driven by sophisticated artificial intelligence*

Randy Pitchford.

 

 

Yep I've seen this, and confirm this whole thread by and large after one of unknown updates, it just gets worse. I saw mob walking toward me less than 10M didn't see me when I popped in and out of invis, and sometimes I was in full invis and all of sudden Lotus said you have been seen, didn't even kill their buddies in front of anyone but alarm was raised. AI code in Warframe is terrible. If they can cut those un-funny red text and do some real works to polish the game.

 

Btw this thread needs to move to AI sub forum.

[Mama_Sasha]

Yep I've seen this, and confirm this whole thread by and large after one of unknown updates, it just gets worse. I saw mob walking toward me less than 10M didn't see me when I popped in and out of invis, and sometimes I was in full invis and all of sudden Lotus said you have been seen, didn't even kill their buddies in front of anyone but alarm was raised. AI code in Warframe is terrible. If they can cut those un-funny red text and do some real works to polish the game.

 

Btw this thread needs to move to AI sub forum.

Agreed, but when i made this thread, i didnt saw that there was such a forum section. Maybe its a new thing or maybe its just me being stupid.

[MokutoBunshi]

Agreed, but when i made this thread, i didnt saw that there was such a forum section. Maybe its a new thing or maybe its just me being stupid.

You can actually move it now. I think maybe you can do it your self, if not ask a moderator.

 

]\'[

[PCwarrior_99]

We totally should need to have an AI tweak in Warframe, while ramming-running missions it's hard to notice but their stupidity is shown very well when going stealth:

-enemies don't get alerted when they see a fellow soldier dying in front of him if it's a melee kill, ranged kills (glaives excluded, strangely the kestrel and redeemer are seen) instead alerts them.

-enemies with shared path get stuck one each other and seem like improvising a dance floor, they stand still drifting their feet around and they hardly notice an enemy of the bunch killed, they just restart walking if they get unstuck.

-the fixed paths don't like the map tiles system, in fact they hug the door and start spinning.

-other stuff that doesn't come to my mind now.

Then I think the "they get alerted randomly" thing is a little bit of realism, how the hell they don't know that someone is making a carnage of the other soldiers in the mission? (because it usually happens to me when 10 or less enemies in a 70+ exterminate missions are still alive)

842

Edited August 27, 2015 by PCwarrior_99

[Lord_Xenon]

 

We totally should need to have an AI tweak in Warframe, while ramming-running missions it's hard to notice but their stupidity is shown very well when going stealth:

-enemies don't get alerted when they see a fellow soldier dying in front of him if it's a melee kill, ranged kills (glaives excluded, strangely the kestrel and redeemer are seen) instead alerts them.

-enemies with shared path get stuck one each other and seem like improvising a dance floor, they stand still drifting their feet around and they hardly notice an enemy of the bunch killed, they just restart walking if they get unstuck.

-the fixed paths don't like the map tiles system, in fact they hug the door and start spinning.

-other stuff that doesn't come to my mind now.

Then I think the "they get alerted randomly" thing is a little bit of realism, how the hell they don't know that someone is making a carnage of the other soldiers in the mission? (because it usually happens to me when 10 or less enemies in a 70+ exterminate missions are still alive)

842

 

 

The thing with close vs ranged combat: ~15m is their viewrange(I'm guessing from the 'Tenno Scoom is there' taunting) - Guns have a noiselevel which alert them within x m(same with their guns alert other ones).

 

To the realism: Sorry, but if they aren't squadmembers, you don't know they even exist. He could use another path, being far away or just not here. Why should solider a at the facility know of the 10 dead mens in the entrance of the vault, which is 200m away? If you bring in realism, the bodies need to stay - until they get removed from YOU - to show the remaining soldiers - oh there is one slaughering us!

 

I encountered these bugs:

 

Drahks hunting you(even at 0s in the mission being).

Roller have a 360° view.

Sometimes enemies getting alerted with 25+m away.

Sentinel can ruin stealthhits.

Kubrow killing stealthkills(at least I saw my VIP target one grabing one and then I lost the stealthkill of him - alerting other around the dead one).

 

First was in Grineer Saturn T2 spy missions.

Second in T3 Grineer.

Third like first(because in T3 I'm just rushing through).

Fourth was T2 too.

Sentinel is every with a very rare chance to occur(and need an enemy within 10m to hear the shot at stealthkilltarget).

Kubrow was in T3.

Need to test if nothing is fixed due some patches, but I doubt it...

Edited August 27, 2015 by Lord_Xenon

[MokutoBunshi]

The thing with close vs ranged combat: ~15m is their viewrange(I'm guessing from the 'Tenno Scoom is there' taunting) - Guns have a noiselevel which alert them within x m(same with their guns alert other ones).

 

To the realism: Sorry, but if they aren't squadmembers, you don't know they even exist. He could use another path, being far away or just not here. Why should solider a at the facility know of the 10 dead mens in the entrance of the vault, which is 200m away? If you bring in realism, the bodies need to stay - until they get removed from YOU - to show the remaining soldiers - oh there is one slaughering us!

 

I encountered these bugs:

 

Drahks hunting you(even at 0s in the mission being).

Roller have a 360° view.

Sometimes enemies getting alerted with 25+m away.

Sentinel can ruin stealthhits.

Kubrow killing stealthkills(at least I saw my VIP target one grabing one and then I lost the stealthkill of him - alerting other around the dead one).

 

First was in Grineer Saturn T2 spy missions.

Second in T3 Grineer.

Third like first(because in T3 I'm just rushing through).

Fourth was T2 too.

Sentinel is every with a very rare chance to occur(and need an enemy within 10m to hear the shot at stealthkilltarget).

Kubrow was in T3.

Need to test if nothing is fixed due some patches, but I doubt it...

The perfect sum up, OP PLEASE add this stuff or at least reference his comment on the squad thing. Even if they heard one of them die theres no way the whole ship outside the squad would listen to all that traffic.

 

]\'[

[Mama_Sasha]

The perfect sum up, OP PLEASE add this stuff or at least reference his comment on the squad thing. Even if they heard one of them die theres no way the whole ship outside the squad would listen to all that traffic.

 

]\'[

Noted. i added the qoute to the front page for easier access.

[Handstamp]

Can we also bring up ospreys breaking stealth? If an osprey sees the player or 'hears' the player, it will alert all spawned corpus units, even if the osprey itself does not target the player or is near other units. Now with the new spawning mechanics allowing ospreys stuck in world, its actually impossile to do stealth as all corpus units will be permanently aware of players as long as stuck osprey is alive, which cannot be reached since it is outside the world border.

 

Lastly something I've been wondering ever since closed beta and probably asked about back then: Why don't security cameras trigger lockdowns and ship alarms but windows do?

[MokutoBunshi]

Can we also bring up ospreys breaking stealth? If an osprey sees the player or 'hears' the player, it will alert all spawned corpus units, even if the osprey itself does not target the player or is near other units. Now with the new spawning mechanics allowing ospreys stuck in world, its actually impossile to do stealth as all corpus units will be permanently aware of players as long as stuck osprey is alive, which cannot be reached since it is outside the world border.

 

Lastly something I've been wondering ever since closed beta and probably asked about back then: Why don't security cameras trigger lockdowns and ship alarms but windows do?

I know they like to defy logic a lot in this game with floating/aim gliding on Jupiter the same way as on earth and even aim gliding at all. but that can all be covered with tenno power. However, all of you are right, for a stealth game that could/should be developing better stealth tactics, this is ridiculous.

 

]\'[