Hatzeputt Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Hey folks, The original intent for the utility of this weapon was to enable players to reach greater heights co-operatively, through the combination of one player using parkour and then being assisted with skilled placement of Tonkor grenades. We wanted to see if this would allow for any other emergent gameplay and tactics, but from what we have seen so far, the greatest emergent behaviour has been players trolling players. We used the Grenade Launcher from the original Quake game as inspiration for this weapon, which also allowed players to grenade jump off other players grenades. Please forgive us for experimenting with this alternative gameplay mechanic, and thank you for your feedback. We will be disabling friendly fire damage and the bounce effect very soon. Cheers, Draice. Oh god I am getting a very nasty feeling that the friendly fire aspect won´t be the only thing that gets removed or "adjusted".I better prepare myself for some more, potentially great, disappointment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealPandemonium Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Hey folks, The original intent for the utility of this weapon was to enable players to reach greater heights co-operatively, through the combination of one player using parkour and then being assisted with skilled placement of Tonkor grenades. We wanted to see if this would allow for any other emergent gameplay and tactics, but from what we have seen so far, the greatest emergent behaviour has been players trolling players. We used the Grenade Launcher from the original Quake game as inspiration for this weapon, which also allowed players to grenade jump off other players grenades. Please forgive us for experimenting with this alternative gameplay mechanic, and thank you for your feedback. We will be disabling friendly fire damage and the bounce effect very soon. Cheers, Draice. Seriously? While you're at it, can you give us 900000k damage, 100m range radial nukes since our demands are more important than your design principles and creative vision? Pandering to player "sentiment" (aka whatever trends among the minority of forum users, and not players as a whole) is driving this game into the ground. This game was much more consistent both balance-wise and ideologically before DE started to take forum feedback seriously (Oberon rework, for example, was a copy/paste job) a little over a year ago. People will get over being able to bounce allies with grenades (it's not even a problem now, IMO.) "Trolling" is transient; removing functionality from a weapon is a permanent change, so long as you take complaints and rambling to heart. Welp, might as well revert the Synoid nerf, right? Since the nitty gritty doesn't really matter when someone screams loudly enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost_87 Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Yes i hate this added effect, after being the victim of so many troll Tonkor players this completely takes away the fun of the game. Bad design, bad form DE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[DE]Draice Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 The personal bounce will remain, it just won't affect allies. Wait wait wait wait... better idea: Make it a thing you do? Like, if, say, you block when you hit a grenade, THEN it launches you? That would be tricky while parkouring, but entirely possible if you were planning for it. That way, players could still co-op with it, but it would be extremely difficult to troll someone(and impossible to troll them in the ways that players have been complaining about). That's a neat idea, I'll pitch it to the design team, but for now will just be removing the friendly fire aspect of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mak_Gohae Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Hey folks, The original intent for the utility of this weapon was to enable players to reach greater heights co-operatively, through the combination of one player using parkour and then being assisted with skilled placement of Tonkor grenades. We wanted to see if this would allow for any other emergent gameplay and tactics, but from what we have seen so far, the greatest emergent behaviour has been players trolling players. We used the Grenade Launcher from the original Quake game as inspiration for this weapon, which also allowed players to grenade jump off other players grenades. Please forgive us for experimenting with this alternative gameplay mechanic, and thank you for your feedback. We will be disabling friendly fire damage and the bounce effect very soon. Cheers, Draice. Are you sure it's trolling from the shooter? Because one thing this game have in abundance is people getting in front you and blocking your shots. Most of my deaths from heavy weapons comes from people that get in front of me and i end up blowing myself up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SethAlvory Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 Are you sure it's trolling from the shooter? Because one thing this game have in abundance is people getting in front you and blocking your shots. Most of my deaths from heavy weapons comes from people that get in front of me and i end up blowing myself up. in some cases, that's certainly possible, but then there's also the times when you're riding on the elevator on a defense mission before the mission even begins, and then you find yourself several feet above the elevator with a bit of damage to your health and some guy typing "lol" into the chat. mind you, of all the possible ways to troll someone w/ the weapon, this is certainly one of the more harmless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SgtFlex Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 (edited) Theres a difference between theory and fact. Yes, players can abuse it, just like Vauban's bounce or Limbos rift, but in public games its so minimal it almost never happens to me, especially in pre-made squads where everyone works together (aka void). I'd say the amount of people actually trolling is about 5% or less, and its when it doesn't even matter (between defense waves, etc)However, what is theory on PC I imagine is far more factual in consoles Edited May 3, 2015 by SgtFlex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genclaymore Posted May 3, 2015 Share Posted May 3, 2015 I love the added effect, have a player sitting in one spot, not assisting :D? be a $&*^, launch them multiple times in the air, or just do it for fun! Which then turn into people trolling other people with the weapon like they did vaubaun bounce and right now limo skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaira Posted May 3, 2015 Share Posted May 3, 2015 (edited) Please forgive us for Oh god no, please don't ask for forgiveness, not because there's nothing to be sorry about but because if you do they'll never stop whining. 2 players with tonkor trying to throw each other around is FUN, please don't nerf fun just because a couple forum dwellers cried loudly about it. Edited May 3, 2015 by Aaira Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kazzamo Posted May 4, 2015 Share Posted May 4, 2015 (edited) Don't take it out, the trolls will get tired of it and then the legit uses of it will shine. Edit: Also if you fear trolls so much just don't pug for a bit after weapons with fun mechanics come out. Edited May 4, 2015 by Kazzamo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealPandemonium Posted May 4, 2015 Share Posted May 4, 2015 please don't nerf fun just because a couple forum dwellers cried loudly about it. Sums up the problem with DE's approach to design and feedback over the past year, more or less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inez Posted May 4, 2015 Share Posted May 4, 2015 2 players with tonkor trying to throw each other around is FUN, please don't nerf fun just because a couple forum dwellers cried loudly about it. You obviously don't understand the primary purpose of these forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
low1991 Posted May 4, 2015 Share Posted May 4, 2015 2 players with tonkor trying to throw each other around is FUN, please don't nerf fun just because a couple forum dwellers cried loudly about it. I sense selfishness from this Quote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rohver Posted May 4, 2015 Share Posted May 4, 2015 Hey folks, The original intent for the utility of this weapon was to enable players to reach greater heights co-operatively, through the combination of one player using parkour and then being assisted with skilled placement of Tonkor grenades. We wanted to see if this would allow for any other emergent gameplay and tactics, but from what we have seen so far, the greatest emergent behaviour has been players trolling players. We used the Grenade Launcher from the original Quake game as inspiration for this weapon, which also allowed players to grenade jump off other players grenades. Please forgive us for experimenting with this alternative gameplay mechanic, and thank you for your feedback. We will be disabling friendly fire damage and the bounce effect very soon. Cheers, Draice. I dont understand the "greater heights" part. Wherever we need to go, we can simply use Wall run or jump-launch from melee weapons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaira Posted May 4, 2015 Share Posted May 4, 2015 (edited) You obviously don't understand the primary purpose of these forums. You really believe forums are a good source of feedback? This must be your first online game or something. Forum dwellers are just an insignificant (but loud) minority. Feedback should be taken from people who spend their free time playing the game, not whining about nothing on the forums. Nobody cares if accoding to the meticulous theorycrafting in some autistic forum post something is a problem, the only thing that matters is practice. And in practice getting thrown around by a tonkor while moving is rare, it's simply not that easy to aim. Edited May 4, 2015 by Aaira Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionntan Posted May 4, 2015 Share Posted May 4, 2015 Wait wait wait wait... better idea: Make it a thing you do? Like, if, say, you block when you hit a grenade, THEN it launches you? That would be tricky while parkouring, but entirely possible if you were planning for it. That way, players could still co-op with it, but it would be extremely difficult to troll someone(and impossible to troll them in the ways that players have been complaining about). Yes please, anything keep this co-op function. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HatchetHaro Posted May 4, 2015 Share Posted May 4, 2015 I've run quite a few missions with the Tonkor, and I've thoroughly enjoyed being thrown around by and throwing around other people. It's pretty harmless fun if you make sure that both of you are out of danger. There was only one game where someone went into voice chat just to call me a douchebag (on my defence, we were both on the extraction zone waiting for the rest of the squad to catch up, and I've made sure that it was completely safe to do so). Otherwise, we had fun "trolling" each other with it. I understand that some people may dislike it, but from what I've seen, the majority of the players were fine with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xeroslash Posted May 4, 2015 Share Posted May 4, 2015 The personal bounce will remain, it just won't affect allies. Thanks for the clarification! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inez Posted May 4, 2015 Share Posted May 4, 2015 You really believe forums are a good source of feedback? This must be your first online game or something. I'm not sure what you're responding to . . . I never said these forums are a good source of feedback. To be much clearer, the main purpose of the Warframe forums is for said autistic forum dwellers to whine about other people having fun for the purpose of getting things nerfed/removed from the game. I was trying to be neutral as far as my personal opinion on this, but the previous sentence, I think, makes my view pretty clear. I am in complete agreement with you. Whenever I chat with pubbies about about something I read in the forums, every single time their response is highly negative concerning the official forums. They basically visit once or twice and never come back for various reasons. Reasons which you can easily guess. My clanmates avoid the official forums like the plague too. Once I tried out the Tonkor, I knew there would be multiple threads calling for nerfs. Someone gets knocked up in the air once by someone else's Tonkor and freaks out and has to start a thread about it. My clannies and I enjoy the hell outta the Tonkor, but we all know the anti-social types that dominate the forums here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidnightDreary Posted May 4, 2015 Share Posted May 4, 2015 I already tried this here: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/448737-trollframe-20-tonkor-etc/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeGreymane Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 (edited) Hey folks, The original intent for the utility of this weapon was to enable players to reach greater heights co-operatively, through the combination of one player using parkour and then being assisted with skilled placement of Tonkor grenades. We wanted to see if this would allow for any other emergent gameplay and tactics, but from what we have seen so far, the greatest emergent behaviour has been players trolling players. We used the Grenade Launcher from the original Quake game as inspiration for this weapon, which also allowed players to grenade jump off other players grenades. Please forgive us for experimenting with this alternative gameplay mechanic, and thank you for your feedback. We will be disabling friendly fire damage and the bounce effect very soon. Cheers, Draice. Was thinking on this teamwork aspect how is too balanced by the troll use of it. A way to deal with this 2 aspect is to avoid any bump on mate how got feet on the floor and still bump mate mid-air. A bit like explosion damage in TF2 how are far less effective if the target isn't jumping. Like that, the use of tonkor as an extra jump on a mate during his parkour still possible and the troll use of it on a mate how is standing on the floor is avoid. Edited May 5, 2015 by ZeGreymane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOldMan73 Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 I've only found one useful ally-bounce mechanic that I liked - free jumps when I wanted to spam the Orthos knockdown slam move as a CC tool. I'm glad to hear that it's going away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibikiGanaha Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 Seriously? While you're at it, can you give us 900000k damage, 100m range radial nukes since our demands are more important than your design principles and creative vision? Pandering to player "sentiment" (aka whatever trends among the minority of forum users, and not players as a whole) is driving this game into the ground. This game was much more consistent both balance-wise and ideologically before DE started to take forum feedback seriously (Oberon rework, for example, was a copy/paste job) a little over a year ago. People will get over being able to bounce allies with grenades (it's not even a problem now, IMO.) "Trolling" is transient; removing functionality from a weapon is a permanent change, so long as you take complaints and rambling to heart. Welp, might as well revert the Synoid nerf, right? Since the nitty gritty doesn't really matter when someone screams loudly enough. "Don't listen to forum posters" - RealPandemonium, a forum poster Sweet over exaggerations and indirect dev bashing, lol. The cherry on top of all this is the guy who posted after you has 9 posts; he came on the forums just to complain about this gun. Unrelated to your bash posting, Llyssa had a good idea about tying the jump into a player input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibikiGanaha Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 Was thinking on this teamwork aspect how is too balanced by the troll use of it. A way to deal with this 2 aspect is to avoid any bump on mate how got feet on the floor and still bump mate mid-air. A bit like explosion damage in TF2 how are far less effective if the target isn't jumping. Like that, the use of tonkor as an extra jump on a mate during his parkour still possible and the troll use of it on a mate how is standing on the floor is avoid. Another possible solution, good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingedCrusade Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 Have you tried going Meerkatting with a Mesa? Funny as hell. Dare I ask what the hell that means? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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