Explosive Weapons Had Their Self-Damage Reduced! Waatttt!?!?!?

[TaylorsContraction]

Yep, today I took the Ogris with me to triton for farming cores and leveling my vauban after a forma. I joined a random game with a frost and at one point inevitably I jumped outside of the bubble while lining up a shot in the air resulting in me hitting the bubble and bowing a missile to my face. This would always result in a guaranteed death except I didn't die.

 

To test this during extraction I fired the rockets at myself and it took 4 rockets to kill me. That's right 4!!! wheras before it was always just the one.

 

Now having said all this I did make one change to my Ogris set-up, I replaced Speed Trigger with Vile acceleration. The overall build on it is

 

Serration - Split Chamber -- Firestorm-- Vile Acceleration -- Infected Clip -- Stormbring -- Hellfire -- Wildfire

 

Somehow I doubt -15% damage from Vile acceleration is suddenly not instagibbing me. Has anyone tested this with the penta?

[Papa_Nuk_Nuk]

They have, my good friend has a Trinity self-damage build built to get best blessings out there.  He used the angstrum.  Same thing happened.  I noticed the same with the Penta during the event, and my Thunderbolt Attica is responding the same, takes a full clip for ~700 shields.  They probably stealth nerfed self-damage.

Or not so stealth.

[taiiat]

i don't really see why this happened anyways.

blowing yourself up is a hazard of using such potent AoE Weapons. that's... how that usually works.

[Fugpo]

I guess they did it for consistency, I mean the Torid no longer kills you and your allies (Thankfully, that was BS) and they needed the reduced damage for the grenade jumping, so it would be fair to reduce other explosive weapons´friendly fire damage. 

[RealPandemonium]

i don't really see why this happened anyways.

blowing yourself up is a hazard of using such potent AoE Weapons. that's... how that usually works.

DE decided to throw balancing weapons with quirks and downsides out the window.  No point in challenge anymore; gets in the way of the grind.  Grind is officially more important than gameplay.  

[DSpite]

This might mean an exploding Glaive to the face might be survivable

 

i don't really see why this happened anyways.

blowing yourself up is a hazard of using such potent AoE Weapons. that's... how that usually works.

 

Except when it's totally at random and has nothing to do with "proper" and "safe" usage.

 

With one of the Mods (Power Throw), a Glaive will explode on the "last bounce". Since "last bounce" can also means "the bounce that returns it to the player, it flies out, hits a few things, then explodes in your hands.

 

I have tested it and found that if aimed at a straight up circular column - not a fancy structure, just a round column - it can get confused on how many bounces it's made, and come back and blow you up.

 

Might actually put that Mod back on it now, so at least I can fly it past my Kubrow who can magically get in the way at the last moment when I'm trying to use it.

[Neogeo]

I can confirmed that glaive still deal large amount of self damage. Meanwhile, Ogris and Penta deal a lesser amount of self damage like Tonkor. My 3470 combine damage Penta deal about 500 damage to the shield, while 3271 blast damage Ogris deal 176 damage. The self damage percentage is inconsistent. It's probably a bug cause by Tonkor just like the unload all ammo bug when they release Angstrom. Anyway, I really like this bug. Hopefully, this will stay. 

Edited May 1, 2015 by Neogeo

[Feallike]

Maybe its because Tonkor does little self damage and can get so much damage they decided to reduce all other explosive weapons. It's a fine change and it makes the weapons more user friendly.

 

 

Tonkor by far is the best Explosive weapon right now in terms of damage/DPS this kinda balanced them all out.

[TaylorsContraction]

Maybe its because Tonkor does little self damage and can get so much damage they decided to reduce all other explosive weapons. It's a fine change and it makes the weapons more user friendly.

Tonkor by far is the best Explosive weapon right now in terms of damage/DPS this kinda balanced them all out.

Yes and no. Tonkor has highest damga unquestionably, but its terrible aim is its downfall. I took an ogris and my teammate took the tonkor to 1 hour t3s survival. I ended up with way more damage and kills (50% damage) whereas he just had 30%. The problem is 1 detonation = everything dead. I'd watch his grenades bounce around while ogris rockets detonate on impact. With 5 (or 6) round per mag I'd end up hogging all the kills while his grenades uselessly bounced. I have a 6 forma tonkor myself, while its great on paper in practice it has some downsides. If it could lay down its damage consistently it would be better. Mind you the guy was shooting his tonkor into an enemy blob in a vortex from 4 meters away. You'd think it's an easy shot but not with the tonkor it isn't, not when competing with an ogris that is a guaranteed hit. Edited May 1, 2015 by TaylorsContraction

[Ironlixivium]

Yes and no. Tonkor has highest damga unquestionably, but its terrible aim is its downfall. I took an ogris and my teammate took the tonkor to 1 hour t3s survival. I ended up with way more damage and kills (50% damage) whereas he just had 30%. The problem is 1 detonation = everything dead. I'd watch his grenades bounce around while ogris rockets detonate on impact. With 5 (or 6) round per mag I'd end up hogging all the kills while his grenades uselessly bounced. I have a 6 forma tonkor myself, while its great on paper in practice it has some downsides. If it could lay down its damage consistently it would be better. Mind you the guy was shooting his tonkor into an enemy blob in a vortex from 4 meters away. You'd think it's an easy shot but not with the tonkor it isn't, not when competing with an ogris that is a guaranteed hit.

     Hey! Didn't expect to see you here :D Anyway, I actually just ran a 60min t3s last night, using my tonkor on my trin I was able to get 1000kills, second in the squad to a mirage that had 1400. But of course, the mirage had damage boosting abilities, I, as a trin, did not. So imo the tonkor gets more powerful the better you are with it, as you can hit more consistently.

[SmilingMad]

Yes and no. Tonkor has highest damga unquestionably, but its terrible aim is its downfall. I took an ogris and my teammate took the tonkor to 1 hour t3s survival. I ended up with way more damage and kills (50% damage) whereas he just had 30%. The problem is 1 detonation = everything dead. I'd watch his grenades bounce around while ogris rockets detonate on impact. With 5 (or 6) round per mag I'd end up hogging all the kills while his grenades uselessly bounced. I have a 6 forma tonkor myself, while its great on paper in practice it has some downsides. If it could lay down its damage consistently it would be better. Mind you the guy was shooting his tonkor into an enemy blob in a vortex from 4 meters away. You'd think it's an easy shot but not with the tonkor it isn't, not when competing with an ogris that is a guaranteed hit.

Pretty much. It takes a while to learn how to lead with it, because the projectile speed is terrible, and even then the hitbox is small enough to make it harmlessly bounce between someone's legs. It's fairly easy to try to walk over it to rocket jump and miss completely. That said, stray grenades are still very lethal indeed. 

 

Using a Zephyr with Jetstream really helps though, and giving it that mod that increases projectile speed is in no way a wasted investment. It makes it easier to hit with and increases its effective range.

[Ironlixivium]

Pretty much. It takes a while to learn how to lead with it, because the projectile speed is terrible, and even then the hitbox is small enough to make it harmlessly bounce between someone's legs. It's fairly easy to try to walk over it to rocket jump and miss completely. That said, stray grenades are still very lethal indeed. 

 

Using a Zephyr with Jetstream really helps though, and giving it that mod that increases projectile speed is in no way a wasted investment. It makes it easier to hit with and increases its effective range.

Jet stream is awesome.

[taiiat]

Might actually put that Mod back on it now, so at least I can fly it past my Kubrow who can magically get in the way at the last moment when I'm trying to use it.

but Doge thought you wanted to play catch :(

;p

Edit:

-snip-

the only thing i could wish for for Tonkor would be a 0.1-0.25m Proximity Detonation.

it's already a fantastic Weapon, ridiculously powerful. questionably powerful, even.

the fact that you need to know how to aim it is fine to me. it's a lot easier to aim it than people make it out to be.

Edited May 1, 2015 by taiiat

[SeargantHaztagazpacho]

Yes and no. Tonkor has highest damga unquestionably, but its terrible aim is its downfall. I took an ogris and my teammate took the tonkor to 1 hour t3s survival. I ended up with way more damage and kills (50% damage) whereas he just had 30%. The problem is 1 detonation = everything dead. I'd watch his grenades bounce around while ogris rockets detonate on impact. With 5 (or 6) round per mag I'd end up hogging all the kills while his grenades uselessly bounced. I have a 6 forma tonkor myself, while its great on paper in practice it has some downsides. If it could lay down its damage consistently it would be better. Mind you the guy was shooting his tonkor into an enemy blob in a vortex from 4 meters away. You'd think it's an easy shot but not with the tonkor it isn't, not when competing with an ogris that is a guaranteed hit.

 

Where the hell do people level their stuff so many times over? I muust know.

[HibikiGanaha]

Yes it got nerfed.  My angstrum build used to take out 300 shields and 703 health on my blessing trinity and now it does less than 1/3rd the damage it used to.

 

Technically it is a buff since you can use the launchers without killing yourself now.  It removed one of the downsides of the guns.

[ArbitUHM]

i don't really see why this happened anyways.

blowing yourself up is a hazard of using such potent AoE Weapons. that's... how that usually works.

 

DE decided to throw balancing weapons with quirks and downsides out the window.  No point in challenge anymore; gets in the way of the grind.  Grind is officially more important than gameplay.  

There is nothing challenging, skillful, or interesting about self damage being absurdly lethal. Weapon damage is balanced against hordes of high HP enemies, not against players. The tankiest frame could get one-shot by a well modded explosive weapon, even if you catch the very edge of the AOE. This is also a game where you're expected to last 40+ minutes of survival or 20+ rounds of defense - it's practically inevitable that you'll go down to your own weapon, and if you're in solo mode that's a revive right there.

 

Power creep has also left many of the explosive weapons behind so that their damage and utility no longer warrant the risk of instant death.

 

It's a good change IMO.

[DopingMD]

Penta can still Blow you up ,so idk what you're talking about XD

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

I think there should be a set amount or percentage of self damage they do. Perhaps make it equal to your frame's shields, but then make it Impact damage so you always take health damage. There needs to be some checks while using an explosive weapon, but in a game without checkpoints instadeath (or bleedout) often feels like too much.

[Azamagon]

To me, this is one way or the other.

 

Either self-damage is minimal for ALL weapons, or it is a very potential hazard, for ALL weapons.

And that would go for the enemies too. Napalms and Bombards should suffer damage to themselves as well, wether that means a tiny bit or a huge amount.

 

And considering the addition of Tonkor and its jump-feature, minimal self-damage seems the more fair way to go. To me, it seems the right way to do it too because sometimes the reasons for close up explosions are extremely unpredictable. Add to it that the weapons have very tiny ammopools, then I further consider the minimal selfdamage perfectly fine.

 

Logic behind it? Well, maybe it has something to do with how they are crafted, they have an integrated system that causes the self-harm to be minimal. Call it space age science :P

[RealPandemonium]

There is nothing challenging, skillful, or interesting about self damage being absurdly lethal. Weapon damage is balanced against hordes of high HP enemies, not against players. The tankiest frame could get one-shot by a well modded explosive weapon, even if you catch the very edge of the AOE. This is also a game where you're expected to last 40+ minutes of survival or 20+ rounds of defense - it's practically inevitable that you'll go down to your own weapon, and if you're in solo mode that's a revive right there.

 

Power creep has also left many of the explosive weapons behind so that their damage and utility no longer warrant the risk of instant death.

 

It's a good change IMO.

A better change would be to make self-damage decrease more sharply when you're farther from the center of the AOE.  Also, bandaids to powercreep can only go on for so long.  Is powercreep just going to be accepted as the status quo in this game?

[Deruser]

This is a good change isn't it? The self damage being reduced is pretty good. The ammo capacity is already enough of a downside for me.

[RealPandemonium]

This is a good change isn't it? The self damage being reduced is pretty good. The ammo capacity is already enough of a downside for me.

Bad because DE doesn't show any signs of curbing powercreep.  Explosives were already ridiculously powerful and they just made them even better, only because other new weapons are EVEN more OP.  There's no end in sight to the powercreep.

[HibikiGanaha]

Bad because DE doesn't show any signs of curbing powercreep.  Explosives were already ridiculously powerful and they just made them even better, only because other new weapons are EVEN more OP.  There's no end in sight to the powercreep.

extremely slow projectile speed, 2 ammo magazine, long reload, hard to aim

 

so much power creep here lol

 

do you ever get tired of making power creep posts in every topic possible?

[RealPandemonium]

extremely slow projectile speed, 2 ammo magazine, long reload, hard to aim

 

so much power creep here lol

 

do you ever get tired of making power creep posts in every topic possible?

Tonkor is OK, I guess, but this isn't about Tonkor's damage, as it doesn't self-damage.  

[Dawnstrider]

extremely slow projectile speed, 2 ammo magazine, long reload, hard to aim

 

so much power creep here lol

 

do you ever get tired of making power creep posts in every topic possible?

 

 

If you read his post properly he's referring to explosives in general not just the Tonkor