The All Or Nothing Nature Of Alerts Is A Problem That Needs To Be Addressed

[Unknown924]

Currently alerts have only two outcomes: do the alert and get the reward or miss the alert and the reward.

Combined with the current RNG system, it is possible for players to only get alerts for items they already have or don't want. This means a player can be unable to progress by playing the game just because of when the alerts happen. This all or nothing nature of alerts is a problem that needs to be addressed.

The question then is how to break up the rewards from alerts. There have been some ideas put forward:

My fragment idea for reactors/catalysts: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/43415-orokin-fragment-idea-allow-incremental-upgrades-to-mod-capacity/

Gekker's item material idea found near the bottom of his opening post: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/44546-how-to-miss-3-catalysts-in-6-hours-edited-feedback/

By splitting item rewards up into smaller parts that can be collected to make an entire item the number of alerts can be increased. For example, if potato alerts only gave out 1/4 the power of a potato there could be four times as many of them with the same overall number of potatoes given away.

Increasing the number of alerts while giving away fractions of the reward does two things: First, it makes it more likely that a person will able to get at least one of the alerts. This leaves them with a part of the reward instead of nothing. Second, by making each alert give parts of a reward the impact of missing one of them is reduced. Instead of a small group of players getting the entire reward, all players have a better chance at getting some of the reward.

Gekker's idea can be implemented two ways: The first is just add the material as a cost to the recipe. The second is to make the blueprint in the store cost alert material. This material could be called "Weapon Blueprint Fragments."

This can be applied to the new Warframe also. The Vauban blueprints could cost "Warframe Blueprint Fragments." Sharing a "Blueprint Fragments" resource with weapons could also work. The cost of warframe blueprints in resources should be much higher than weapons though.

Different blueprint resource costs could also be used to reflect rarity by DE. The alert blueprints that can not be bought in anyway could cost twice as much or more compared to normal items.

The key idea behind splitting up rewards is that people want to get something instead of nothing. By giving away portions of rewards more often, the same overall amount can be given away but with more people getting something.

I feel that DE needs to have serious thoughts about the all or nothing nature of rewards and attempt to find a solution.

EDIT: 2 things from the thread.

1: The possibility of new items being platinum only at a discounted price from about a week or so. This would mean that people who really want the item can wait a week before getting it or buy it now at a discount. The item being platinum only for the duration of the discount should make up the reduced price. I think this is something that could work very well for DE.

2: Gekker has a well thought out post that should be looked at:https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/45104-the-all-or-nothing-nature-of-alerts-is-a-problem-that-needs-to-be-addressed/page-3#entry451660

EDIT 2: For some reason my edit cause   to show up multiple places in my orginal post, they should be gone now.

Edited May 16, 2013 by Unknown924

[Cleesus]

I just wish every alert gave you a chance of getting an item

[Bakim0n0]

This is going to be like every other topic...

You're basically going to get people against it, people for it, and people who really couldn't care less.

I have no problem with the alert system and really don't see what all the fuss is about.

[Namacyst]

Garbage suggestions. I don't want to play Alerts every 5 minutes to get dozens of useless garbage items just to "feel pretty" so that i can build my Unicorn at the end of the day. If you pull an item apart and make 4 out of it so you can combine it later and increase the rate of alerts by 4 times you CHANGE NOTHING! You get more "nothing" at a higher pace because RNG stays RNG and if you're not there you miss it.. if it's 2 alerts in 3 Hours or 8. You 3 hours gone... you miss 3 hours worth of alerts. Logic!

 

If you play the game.. i mean RIGHT NOW you will not miss the Alerts that happen in that time. You get extra rewarded in a sense. If you don't play the game why the hell should you get anything? Some clever people camp alerts vie the new fancy APP and that's ok. If you really try you can increase your odds of notmissing on on alerts you want and if you do miss one you either slept or weren't playing. Tough luck.. for EVERYONE!

[SoaringEagle]

... and really don't see what all the fuss is about.

 

You didn't read his post.

 

This is definitely a viable alternative to the current system.

[HvcTerr]

The easiest way for them to reduce player-frustration:

 

Determine the actual item of ? rewards at the end of the mission, rather than in-advance.

 

The mathematical odds of getting what you want aren't different, but it reduces the crazy roller-coaster ride of frustration.

 

Edit: Actually, there is one difference. Both versions reward people who are able to have huge slots of open time to play, but the current system doesn't demand much in terms of total playtime.

Edited May 16, 2013 by HvcTerr

[crow-k]

This is going to be like every other topic...

You're basically going to get people against it, people for it, and people who really couldn't care less.

I have no problem with the alert system and really don't see what all the fuss is about.

No 54it? You mean there isnt some magical 4th position? of course some will be for, some will be against and some won't care. That is the 3 positions of any argument. There is no 4th position, so by this logic not only should he have not made this post, we should delete all forums everywhere. /facepalm

[ZaxNyu]

I think we should get back downvotes only for threads like this.. again and again complaints about the same thing only because people don't understand the simplicity between "be lucky, play much or pay".

 

Really, I will never understand why you guys are not happy that you even CAN get all things without platinum.

 

That's the new best idea. For 1 month, ALL new warframes and weapons should be platinum only and then become available through alerts.

Edited May 15, 2013 by ZaxNyu

[crow-k]

They could hugely improve alerts just by making the reward randomly determined (for all participants) at extraction, rather than ahead-of-time.

 

Sure, you don't know what it is you're getting, but at least you don't feel like you get screwed unfairly when That Thing You Want pops up while you're at work.

This is a bad idea for one main reason, at least with the current alert system we have goals we can see. I am not sure the system would benefit any more RNG.

[GraalOhOtonami]

Being out of the house from 6am to 6pm really doesn't help when I'm trying to get either a weapon or warframe BP, so yeah, I support the structure suggested here, but at the same time, I think it's a little convoluted (or it may be the fact I've been up for 20 hours), so allow me to suggest my own:

Alert Chips, a resource gained from any ? much like a small resource drop of 10-20, perhaps less.

In conjunction with this, in the Market, you have the Alert store, where you can exchange these chips for a random artifact, weapon, helmet or Warframe BP, with costs being calculated to make it as rare to get an item, but people can choose to target the blueprints etc. that they actually want, and work towards the goal, rather than leaving it to blind fate.

[Mikki79]

They should just replace all the alert rewards with ammo boxes! Like the daily login.

[ZaxNyu]

They should just replace all the alert rewards with ammo boxes! Like the daily login.

 

I second this.

[Argoms]

I think we should get back downvotes only for threads like this.. again and again complaints about the same thing only because people don't understand the simplicity between "be lucky, play much or pay".

 

Really, I will never understand why you guys are not happy that you even CAN get all things without platinum.

 

That's the new best idea. For 1 month, ALL new warframes and weapons should be platinum only and then become available through alerts.

^Did not read OP

[TraumaHunter]

The easiest way for them to reduce player-frustration would be to change ? rewards so that they are randomly determined at the end of the mission. 

 

Sure, your odds of getting what you want aren't any higher, but at least people stop feeling unfairly screwed by real-world obligations like being at work.

You know - I used to be against this.

But 6 missed potatoes, 1 missed banshee helmet, and 4 glaive BP's missed later.

(and more than 50% of those were missed within 5 minutes - some missed by as little as 10 seconds.   Point and case - I just missed a banshee helmet because I had update errors and couldn't log in for 10 minutes in addition to twitter being slow to the draw and my phone with the official app not pushing the update to my phone.)

I really... really.........really.... want something to change - This sounds like its the most fair solution.

Edited May 15, 2013 by TraumaHunter

[PhiZero]

Going to throw my opinion in. I'm not a gambler, but I know that gambling on the alert system is a bad life choice.

 

I mentioned in another thread, which will be provided at the end of this post as "Edit" and "EditContinued," the alert reward system emphasizes on luck. If they wanted it to be luck as the system was originally meant to be, they would have never added the heat dagger, glaive, and Fauban as platinum purchases. It's like a casino saying that you can spend small bits of money at a chance to make more money, or you can spend slightly more money to guarantee more than you invested. Why would I gamble when there is the option to cut my loses and make more money without risk?

 

As for making all new warframes being platinum only for a month then being introduced to the alert system, that would literally be the bullet to the heart for the game. Maybe reduce the time required to a week before introducing it to the alert system, then a month after that it is introduced into mission rewards like the banshee.

 

Now for the fun part...

Edit: Lets put the boss RNG like its a dice: You can get a Blueprint drop on a roll of one or two. If you get a one or two on the first roll, you roll the dice again to see what reward it is, one through three is the chassis, four through five is the helmet, six is the systems.

 

EditContinued: Now lets treat the Alert RNG in the same fashion: You roll the dice once every thirty minutes, If you get a one through three a alert is eligible to show up. You roll the dice again for the type of alert mission where one through four is for normal alerts and five through six is for mystery alerts. Roll the dice again if it is a mystery alert, one through three are artifact alerts, four through five are skin alerts, and six is for a Orokin Reactor/Catalyst alert. Once you have the category of alerts, roll the dice again to select one reward from the given category.

 

For normal loot, you only have to roll twice as your allowed to do it at your own pace. Then for alert loot, you have to roll four times which the pace is decided for you.

Edited May 15, 2013 by SagamiYusuke

[SoaringEagle]

 because RNG stays RNG and if you're not there you miss it.

 

Tough luck.. for EVERYONE!

 

Unfortunately the current system is more than just RNG of the items, the time is also RNG based. I've been familiar with item RNG since Diablo 2. I can't think of another game I've played where time RNG existed. Separate the two or you won't understand the problem with alerts.

 

Unknown924 is talking about breaking a single item into another single item, not multiple parts like the warframe helmet, chassis, and systems parts, which is perfectly fine.

 

The less time RNG the better off all players would be.

Edited May 15, 2013 by SoaringEagle

[darrenalilim]

I think we should get back downvotes only for threads like this.. again and again complaints about the same thing only because people don't understand the simplicity between "be lucky, play much or pay".

 

Really, I will never understand why you guys are not happy that you even CAN get all things without platinum.

 

That's the new best idea. For 1 month, ALL new warframes and weapons should be platinum only and then become available through alerts.

I think we should get back downvotes only for posts/people like this... again and again ignorance. It's clear you didn't even read the thread. Try again.

[Unknown924]

I think we should get back downvotes only for threads like this.. again and again complaints about the same thing only because people don't understand the simplicity between "be lucky, play much or pay".

 

Really, I will never understand why you guys are not happy that you even CAN get all things without platinum.

 

That's the new best idea. For 1 month, ALL new warframes and weapons should be platinum only and then become available through alerts.

Except there are several things that are: "be lucky or pay".  The largest offender in that regard are catalysts/reactors - they give a significant boost in power and the only ways to get them are to be lucky or pay(Even the live stream reward is a 50-50 chance if you need a specific one).  The Vauban warframe is also an exmaple of that - you will never get it unless you get the 3 alerts you need or pay for it.

 

As for the second part of your post: because this is a Free-To-Play game.  It is perfectly reasonalbe to expect the ability to get things that influence gameplay for free players,  Being unable to do so leaves people much less willing to spend money and may even drive them away.  If they can get everything gameplay related for free they may sapend real money to get cosmetic items for a game they enjoy.

 

Although, a timed exclusive limiting new items to platinum only does seem reasonable(like mentioned above, a month seems too long, a week or so would be the best).  DE could even have a short discount on release  to entice people that really want it.

Edited May 15, 2013 by Unknown924

[ZaxNyu]

I think we should get back downvotes only for posts/people like this... again and again ignorance. It's clear you didn't even read the thread. Try again.

 

Yes. I did not. And do you guys know why?

 

Because this is how the Free 2 Play of this game works!

 

I mean seriously guys, You can get ANYTHING in the game without paying, it's only a matter of time. Even that this time is completely random because of RNG, it is A LOT more fair than any other F2P game I played before. Who would buy even the newest weapon or warframe in the game if you get it within max 3 days for not paying anything? The devs have to live from something.

 

And let's be serious now. You don't NEED these items. I say a decent player not going kamikaze can complete all missions solo with the standard weapons not supercharged.

Edited May 15, 2013 by ZaxNyu

[PhiZero]

Although, a timed exclusive limiting new items to platinum only does seem reasonable.  DE could even have a short discount on release  to entice people that really want it.

 

Now we're getting somewhere, I'm all for having discounted platinum prices on release as long as something else accompanies it. Such as for the first week the warframe/weapon/item gets a 25% off discount platinum wise, while being in the alert system for the duration of the sale before being put into a less sadistic system.

[Scanation]

This is going to be like every other topic...

You're basically going to get people against it, people for it, and people who really couldn't care less.

I have no problem with the alert system and really don't see what all the fuss is about.

You are the man. And yeah, I couldn't care less about the alert system now. You missed it, tough luck. Wait tilll next time.

Edited May 15, 2013 by Scanation

[Argoms]

You're basically going to get people against it, people for it, and people who really couldn't care less.

"This is going to be like every other topic. People with various perspectives will talk about it."

[HvcTerr]

I mean seriously guys, You can get ANYTHING in the game without paying, it's only a matter of time. 

 

What enemies drop inventory slots again?

[Bakim0n0]

No 54it? You mean there isnt some magical 4th position? of course some will be for, some will be against and some won't care. That is the 3 positions of any argument. There is no 4th position, so by this logic not only should he have not made this post, we should delete all forums everywhere. /facepalm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

[Argoms]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

Well to be fair, you did effectively say the most obvious thing ever- people either do or don't like it, and some just don't care. There isn't a 4th option here, is there?