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Tonkor-What We Want Our Snipers To Be?


Evanescent
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Ossu~ !

 

 

I'll jump right in here. Cut right into the butter!

 

 

Tonkor has:

 

1) Fantastic damage

2) Unique utility mechanic

3)Versatile modding potential

4)Fantastic CC

 

Balanced by:

 

1) Ammo restriction

2) Magazine restriction

3)Long Reload

 

 

 

It got me thinking....isn't this what we want our snipers to be? Guns that do insane damage, and a unique utility/mechanic to them like Tonkors rocket jumping, but balanced by limited ammunition/other restrictions? (maybe reload time as well)

 

I'm not saying make snipers rocket firing machines of doom, just take what the tonkor is in essence and mold into a way that would befit snipers. For example:

 

Vectis: Has unique charge mechanic that allows user to use grapple hooks for better re positioning, or for faster movement across map. Does not consume ammo (?) upon use.

 

Or,

 

Vulkar: Has unique charge mechanic to fire high velocity rounds that cause sonic boom, causing rapid increase in air pressure in a certain area capable of stunning entire crowds of enemies. Consumes 2 rounds per use. Does not deal damage. Stun lasts for 10 seconds. Can be reapplied.

 

Lanka: Can deploy energy fields upon double tap on fire. Enemies entering field will be continously electrified for 8 seconds. Does not deal damage. Consumes 2 ammo per shot.

 

Please keep in mind that these are only ideas, just meant to give an idea of what I have in mind.

 

Having them have features like this allows for insanely versatile play, also freeing up ideas for great potential augents to modify or add to their unique abilities. 

 

What do you think of this? Do you think DE has hit the jackpot on how to buff up snipers (and shotguns, why not)? Or do you have other suggestions to make them amazing? Or do you think they are fine as they are now?

 

 

Just a request: keep it constructive, keep it on-topic.

 

 

Edit 1: (For clarity):

 

The examples given are pretty far-fetched. The real implementations would obviously be more toned down!

These are just to give an idea of something to make the familty of guns more niche, more interesting, more unique not only to themselves, but to Warframe as well.

 

Edit 2: Why we should not just settle for a simple damage+Punchthrough buff:

 

They would just become hit-scan, no charge bows! They will then be compared to and either be overshadow or will overshadow the Bow family, rendering one or the other comparatively in a disadvantage as a result.

 

To prevent that, let us make the Snipers more niche, so they are unique and used for their own sake, and are not compared to other guns!

 

Edit 3:  Ayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy! An idea for AOE goodness to have!

 

Shoutout and credit to Kiteohatto for this one.

 

Snipers can cause an AOE effect upon headshot that reduces enemy armor/shield by x% (I'd like to ay 50% but that might be a bit OP) for 15 seconds. Timer can be reset, upon another successful headshot, however % will not stack. A brief stun can also be applied to add some CC.

 

Support? Check.

Single target damage? Check.

 

A really nice concept, thanks once again to Kiteohatto!

 

 

Another awesome idea I thought up was:

 

Let there be an augment for snipers or  feature for a specific one to turn one enemy shot into infested?

That would be flipping amazing!

Not to mention it would be an awesome diversion as well to turn their attention. 

 

Edit 4: Here is a question I see coming up, so I'll answer it.

 

Do we have to have our snipers so fancy? Just gimme a damage and punchthrough and be done with it. Modern snipers don't do none of this shiz!

 

 

Do we have to have these? Not at all. We can settle for simple damage buff.

But Weapons with one dimension only-damage, are too common already. Why not have something different?

Say you have this uber powerful sniper now. for a while you have fun staring at the numbers, then you realise you can't take mobs, and you switch to something else and move on. Eventually you get tired of playing damageframe and stop.

 

Now what  if you could play what you have, differently? Latch and jump on walls, getting a headshot, jumping off, getting midair headshots, then landing in a sniping spot and whittling down the rest?

 

What if you could see your team being overwhelmed, and suddenly launching a stsis field to give them a brief breather and a chance to turn the tides?

 

What if you could floor entire mobs with single shots for your allies to finish writhing on the ground for?

 

What if you could kill an enemy, and then see him explode  a  corona of gore, splattering the room and killing most of his sllies or leaving them blinded?

 

What if you could shoot an enemy, and see him go berserk on his allies, slaughtering them? What if with a shot you could see grineer turn to infested? 

 

Amazing, right.

 

Of course you would have beefy numbers too.

 

You would be having fun.

 

And that is paramount.

Edited by Evanescent
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  We all have many interesting ideas about how to improve Sniper Rifles but we also must understand that the amount of coding to make those ideas come true are pretty much nightmarish.

  The most simple way to improve Sniper Rifles right now is to give them innate punch through and maybe up their damage a bit.

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  We all have many interesting ideas about how to improve Sniper Rifles but we also must understand that the amount of coding to make those ideas come true are pretty much nightmarish.

  The most simple way to improve Sniper Rifles right now is to give them innate punch through and maybe up their damage a bit.

We don't need far-fetched grappling hooks-that was just an example. Something as simple as tonkor's rocket jumping works fantastically, as long as it complements the gun!

 

If we are going to rewok something, we might as well go all the way-why leave it half-baked for the future?

 

Thank you for the feedback! Really appreciate it.

 

 

Edit: Agree on the punch through. Definitely need it. I think damage buff is a given?

 

Edit 2: The effects wouldn't be too hard to code actually- they are already in-game. Ripline can be modearted a bit to make the grappling hook, blast proc can be modified for the vulkar's effect, and the sapping osprey's field with electric proc can do for the Lanka. What do you think?

Edited by Evanescent
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Certainly a creative idea, but I think you're taking the idea a lil too far for a gun.

 

Tonkor uses the secondary product of a grenade to launch himself; not a completely controllable mechanic, but one that's nice since it'll use explosions anyways.

 

For snipers, the ones that exist aren't designed to have energy traps or hooks or stuns; they're just ballistics that need a lil damage buff. DE would have to make a new rifle that has a mechanic like that, like they did with the Paracyst, but somehow make it still zoomable and actually have good stats as well.

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Long reload?  It's 2 seconds.  I don't think that is long.

 

I guess sniper rifles could benefit from an alternative use that would make them more useful more of the time rather than being overkill on one target out of 20.  I'm actually quite happy with my Purity Vulkar though.  Increased damage when I scope and shoot the face and picking out the high affinity yield targets such as Ancients or Heavy Gunners then triggers a radial burst of Corrosive damage so I don't have to worry so much about the smaller targets.  Also periodic healing, which is nice.

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Long reload?  It's 2 seconds.  I don't think that is long.

 

I guess sniper rifles could benefit from an alternative use that would make them more useful more of the time rather than being overkill on one target out of 20.  I'm actually quite happy with my Purity Vulkar though.  Increased damage when I scope and shoot the face and picking out the high affinity yield targets such as Ancients or Heavy Gunners then triggers a radial burst of Corrosive damage so I don't have to worry so much about the smaller targets.  Also periodic healing, which is nice.

That's what I want as well, only make it innate for the guns themselves.

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All of my yes! If the DE takes a look at Tonkor and other weapons like Mutalist Quanta they could make snipers soo good!!

 

 

I want Lanka to have its charge speed heavily lowered to 6 seconds and consume 6 ammo to charge but multiply the damage up to 10x when fully charged. Then just beef up the damage for its max to be 30k. Punchthrough of 6 meters ofcourse. 

 

that would make the Lanka the most damaging weapon in the game with the drawback of having a charge attack that is devastating.

 

Then just add a charging animation that makes it look awesome when charging and a huge recoil when fireing the huge charge attack. Then maybe a animation like the enemy turning into bones from the shear power of this thing hitting them.

 

 

Weapon's shouldn't just be good they should look good and feel good!

Edited by Feallike
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Certainly a creative idea, but I think you're taking the idea a lil too far for a gun.

 

Tonkor uses the secondary product of a grenade to launch himself; not a completely controllable mechanic, but one that's nice since it'll use explosions anyways.

 

For snipers, the ones that exist aren't designed to have energy traps or hooks or stuns; they're just ballistics that need a lil damage buff. DE would have to make a new rifle that has a mechanic like that, like they did with the Paracyst, but somehow make it still zoomable and actually have good stats as well.

Keep in mind the examples I gave were just examples. The feature to implement in-game would be moderated and made more realistic, of course.

Snipers just need:

-damage buff

-innate and a hefty punchthrough

-maybe small aoe on impact(like opticore)

 

And they would be usable again.

But then wouldn't they just be Hit-scan, no charge Bows?

 

Why not make them....more interesting! :D

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o.o sounds like adding some borderlands 2 effects in there and sure snipers would be OP. Blast damage ones procing blast all the time and knocking back all enemies in a radius with its damage. Balanced by a slow fire rate and longer reload time. Or ones that have ricochet bullets that hit an enemy and bounce to 1 additional enemy next to it. With the drawback of consuming more ammo.

 

But meh even if snipers got some kind of overhaul it wouldn't change too much. People would still prefer spray guns/high RoF guns

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o.o sounds like adding some borderlands 2 effects in there and sure snipers would be OP. Blast damage ones procing blast all the time and knocking back all enemies in a radius with its damage. Balanced by a slow fire rate and longer reload time. Or ones that have ricochet bullets that hit an enemy and bounce to 1 additional enemy next to it. With the drawback of consuming more ammo.

 

But meh even if snipers got some kind of overhaul it wouldn't change too much. People would still prefer spray guns/high RoF guns

True, but you never know, Let us fix our guns forst-whether people use them or not is upto them.

 

If people saw that even non High RoF guns were viable through modding and unique procs/mechanics I'm optimistic they would begin to expand their playstyles!

We do blame people a lot, but the truth is we have so few guns that are unique and offer different gameplay besides being viable.

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Definitely some interesting and creative ideas that would make sniper rifles a lot more appealing as weapons to use.

 

That being said, I think that granting certain weapons "utility" functions (shield deploy, grapple hook, etc) would be an incredibly interesting route to explore.

 

[size=2]inb4 rideable Jat "Jet Kitty" Kittags[/size]

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Definitely some interesting and creative ideas that would make sniper rifles a lot more appealing as weapons to use.

 

That being said, I think that granting certain weapons "utility" functions (shield deploy, grapple hook, etc) would be an incredibly interesting route to explore.

 

inb4 rideable Jat "Jet Kitty" Kittags

*secret high five*

 

Indeed. I think it would definitely add a lot to gameplay.

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" Fantastic Damage "

 

I'm pretty sure 2m damage is not fantastic. That's game breaking. Believe it or not. Its going to get nerfed sooner or later.

You know what I mean >.<

 

Damage like the dread, for example.

 

Tonkor as a weapon is awesome!

 

As for nerf....

 

 

I don't think it warrants a nerf. TO make it usable for long periods you have to sacrifice some damage (leaving it formidable, mind you).

 

2 mill on its own? I think not. With buffs? Yes. 

WOuld you really nerf a weapon for buffs provided externally?

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" Fantastic Damage "

 

I'm pretty sure 2m damage is not fantastic. That's game breaking. Believe it or not. Its going to get nerfed sooner or later.

Hell, snipers could do 2b and it still would be fair. The stupidly high damage is balanced by the fact that snipers are:

-single target weapons

-extremely slow rof

-small clips

-sniper ammo is "rare"

-have long relaod time

Edited by kiteohatto
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Hell, snipers could do 2b and it still would be fair. The stupidly high damage is balanced by the fact that snipers are:

-single target weapons

-extremely slow rof

-small clips

-sniper ammo is "rare"

-have long relaod time

Agreed. Not like you can clear rooms with them after all.

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Mmmm...that would be..either nice or too OP.

 

Maybe Aoe Knockdown triggered by headshot?

Armor reduction would be nicer :P. Enemies in a 7m area around the target would get reduced armor because they were hit by the shrapnel ?

 

This way snipers still have a nice support role and can still hold their ground against single targets.

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Armor reduction would be nicer :P. Enemies in a 7m area around the target would get reduced armor because they were hit by the shrapnel ?

 

This way snipers still have a nice support role and can still hold their ground against single targets.

That's actually amazing! 

 

MInd if I add that to OP?

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