Boltace -Nearly- Unusable

[Monster-T]

So... I just tried the Boltace out a bit and... sadly I have to say that its hit range is smaller than Kronen's (and the range of Kronen was already really small).
To be precise: Its actually hard to hit with the Boltace the most simple targets - for example I have to stay nearly IN a Grineer Butcher to land a hit on him.
After that I thought "how it will be work with Primed Reach installed?" And... it is STILL hard to hit something... with a maxed Primed Reach mod.

Without a Reach-Mod I have to say that the Boltace is nearly unusable - no matter how good their damage is... I believe it got the smallest hit range of all weapons.

I hope it was a mistake. It really needs a range buff - otherwise... yeah, a Skana (without augment) would be more viable than that.


EDIT: I used my old Kronen a lot with Primed Reach - and it was a hell of fun, but with these things - no.
Dont build them until the range is fixed or buffed, because the Kronen is so much more usable.
I've warned you.

Edited May 15, 2015 by Monster-T

[.-KG-..-Ragulab-.]

is it good for coptering atleast?

[Monster-T]

is it good for coptering atleast?

I have used my old Kronen to Build the Boltace, so I just can guess - but it seems to be exactly as good as the Kronen was.

Edited May 12, 2015 by Monster-T

[GinKenshin]

when you look at it as a puncture weapon, it already out classes daggers and dual daggers (which are some the main puncture weapons), it has more dmg, more puncture dmg, all around better stats

the daggers have quickness (some of them at least) and good reach (better than boltace for sure), so to me it's pretty balanced, I was going to make a rage thread about how this stupid boltor cousin kicked daggers and dual daggers, but thankfully I remembered the bad reach for tonfas 
so it's balanced, don't do anything..

[Monster-T]

when you look at it as a puncture weapon, it already out classes daggers and dual daggers (which are some the main puncture weapons), it has more dmg, more puncture dmg, all around better stats

the daggers have quickness (some of them at least) and good reach (better than boltace for sure), so to me it's pretty balanced, I was going to make a rage thread about how this stupid boltor cousin kicked daggers and dual daggers, but thankfully I remembered the bad reach for tonfas 

so it's balanced, don't do anything..

But it should have at least the same range as the Kronen have - because (like I said) they are just unusable with that small range. You should really try that out.

I mean... they were obviously meant to be an upgrade to the Kronen (thatswhy the Kronen are one of the requirements to build the Boltace).

Yeah, daggers are indeed in a need of a buff, but thats another topic.

Edited May 12, 2015 by Monster-T

[taiiat]

when you look at it as a puncture weapon, it already out classes daggers and dual daggers (which are some the main puncture weapons), it has more dmg, more puncture dmg, all around better stats

but looks like arse

 

*Cries*

[(PSN)MrNishi]

Endgame slash weapons are actually quite better because if you use 4x corrosive projection slash wins , for everyday missions this weapon would be very good. As for buffing , buffing the range a little so it's useable isn't that insane.

If using 4xCP wouldn't Toxic or Gas be better than Slash? (I prefer Viral or just high crit)

Slash is better if enemies still have armor as the Bleed proc will do the same damage regardless of Armor or No Armor.

[Holeypaladin]

So another weapon that looks better than its component weapon on paper (like the aksomati) but has a glaring weakness which makes it much in fact inferior to its component weapon (like aksomati's accuracy)?

 

You'd think they'd learn by now that these weapons should be direct upgrades to their components, otherwise what's the point?

 

Shorter range makes it not a direct upgrade...

[Monster-T]

So another weapon that looks better than its component weapon on paper (like the aksomati) but has a glaring weakness which makes it much in fact inferior to its component weapon (like aksomati's accuracy)?

 

You'd think they'd learn by now that these weapons should be direct upgrades to their components, otherwise what's the point?

 

Shorter range makes it not a direct upgrade...

At least the Aksomati are way more better in close distances than the Akstiletto, but the Boltace is actually a straight downgrade to the Kronen now, because of its extreme bad hit range.

I understand that there have to be a drawback (because the Boltace's damage is really really high), but isnt their lower attack speed enough?

Please DE, buff the hit range of the Boltace a bit.

[Paradoxbomb]

when you look at it as a puncture weapon, it already out classes daggers and dual daggers (which are some the main puncture weapons), it has more dmg, more puncture dmg, all around better stats

the daggers have quickness (some of them at least) and good reach (better than boltace for sure), so to me it's pretty balanced, I was going to make a rage thread about how this stupid boltor cousin kicked daggers and dual daggers, but thankfully I remembered the bad reach for tonfas 

so it's balanced, don't do anything..

 

I'm all for weapon balance, but it should be sensible to a degree. If the Boltace are equal or greater in length to the Kronen, then they should have similar range, not less. Also, daggers have been long overdue for a buff anyway, so even if the Boltace outclasses them now they'll like be improved to have their own advantages down the road (hopefully).

[Noble_Cactus]

4x CP slash is still better than poison in terms of multiplier unless you were referring to corpus but most endgame enemies are grinner mainly for armor , also when I said slash is good I meant comparing puncture vs slash , slash will win in endgame with 4x CP since puncture has a -25% on flesh.

Shields resist puncture. Flesh is neutral to it.

[Monster-T]

No other opinions?

[K0bra]

I leveld this weapon and had the same probs.Without a range mod it has a very bad range.Cool weapon but this sucks.So guys use Primed Reach.

[VKhaun]

My Boltace is 20 from a few runs leveling it. So far I'm not seeing any problems with range TBH.

 

It's definitely a very close range weapon. I'm not claiming it's a polearm or anything, but it's got a nice arc on it that makes it good for plowing through hallways and hitting two, sometimes three targets at a time. Attacking with it stops knockdowns and pulls like a heavy weapon does and the combos from the stance are nice for continuous attacks. Plus it has an actual slide attack to get it into range as opposed to the fist weapon uppercut. It may have shorter range than fists or daggers, but it feels much easier to use in a hectic situation with lots of enemies.

 

Nothing wrong with a buff though. Wouldn't call it a mistake if they did buff it's range.

Edited May 14, 2015 by VKhaun

[VKhaun]

it is STILL hard to hit something... with a maxed Primed Reach mod.

Mods are almost all % based. Even a big % of a low number, is just another very low number. I would not waste a slot on these for reach or primed reach. The effects are going to be subtle I think.

Edited May 14, 2015 by VKhaun

[LazyKnight]

I used the Boltace for a bit and saying it has an unusable range is an overstatement. It can be used if you're going to be walking into the target while attacking. However, I am not arguing against the issue with its range being pathetic and is nearly in your character's hit-box. It's like some of the daggers, you need to go out of your way to hit a target with them. 

 

I doubt they would be overpowered if they were given a moderate increase to their range.

[Nikbis]

Hi !
Since 16.5, I too have noticed something weird happened to the range of my melee weapon.
I just can speak about the Jat Kittag (+ 8/10 Primed Reach), witch I know quite well by playing with for 5 months.
It's like the horizontal range aven't been changed, while the vertical range has been drastically decreased.
I used to smash surveillance cameras and nullifier-grineer-things-on-top-of-doors with a normal air melee attack pretty easily. But now, it's barely impossible, I have to be sooooo close when I lauch my attack !
Likewise, hit an ennemy in a stair was a piece of cake with Jat + P.Reach (even without P.Reach) before 16.5.

Edited May 14, 2015 by Nikbis

[HyenaGrin]

Just started testing out the Boltace. I have to say the range is not unplayable. It's not great, but given its exceptionally high puncture damage that's not a huge surprise. It's a single-target killer, not a room-sweeper. 

After reading this thread I fully expected the huge slide attack damage to go to complete waste (being unable to hit with it) but that has proven to be very much not the case. I can hit with the slide attack very reliably, and it is a beast of an attack.

Don't let this thread throw you off. I haven't decided yet whether I prefer Fang Prime or Boltace yet (haven't maxed it out yet), but either way, it's a pretty easily attainable weapon (for a multi-stage craft it's pretty cheap) and it's got a lot of power, so you can't complain too hard.

[DeejayPwny]

If it gets a range buff, it needs to at least be kroner range. I don't expect anything big, it doesn't need it, but it should at least hit as far as it looks it could.

[Khalixxa]

Try hitting any enemy with a ground finisher using the Kronen or Boltace.

 

Also, try hitting any enemy that is at a slightly different elevation than you, or an Infested Charger using these weapons.

[HyenaGrin]

Try hitting any enemy with a ground finisher using the Kronen or Boltace.

 

Also, try hitting any enemy that is at a slightly different elevation than you, or an Infested Charger using these weapons.

 

That's not just a problem with the Boltace. All the dual daggers have the same problems with landing ground attacks. So does the Dex Dakras. I made a bug post about it.

I was actually able to hit crawler infested with the boltace, so it's not that bad for elevation (though if they are down even a minor slope it goes right over their head). There's plenty of melee weapons that can't even hit a crawler on flat ground, you have to do a slam to hit them. 

 

Again, not unplayable.

[Monster-T]

I used the Boltace for a bit and saying it has an unusable range is an overstatement. It can be used if you're going to be walking into the target while attacking. However, I am not arguing against the issue with its range being pathetic and is nearly in your character's hit-box. It's like some of the daggers, you need to go out of your way to hit a target with them. 

 

I doubt they would be overpowered if they were given a moderate increase to their range.

Yeah, it was a bit of an overstatement. There are usable - thatswhy the title is "nearly unusable", but its a pain to use them, because I miss a lot of my hits because of its too low range. For the crouching Infested I need to do a slam attack to actuall hit them and when I try to hit a flying enemy I miss nearly 2 of 3 aerial attacks.

My point is: If I wield a melee weapon I want to hit my targets whenever I strike, and with the Boltace Im not able to do so.

They are playwise unfluid, unfun and inefficient.

[smithf]

I wonder if it is due to hitbox or non-sync with animation, and whether it is a problem with the weapon group or stance in general, but I think I miss a lot on the first strike. visually, it feels as if the weapon just passes through the intended target without any outcome.

 

I think I must have missed more than 50% of the time with Boltace's first strike (even in quick melee).

[Monster-T]

I wonder if it is due to hitbox or non-sync with animation, and whether it is a problem with the weapon group or stance in general, but I think I miss a lot on the first strike. visually, it feels as if the weapon just passes through the intended target without any outcome.

 

I think I must have missed more than 50% of the time with Boltace's first strike (even in quick melee).

I've noticed that too. With Primed Reach installed I only frequently miss small targets (Crouchers) - everything else I hit with 100%, so its a hitbox problem.

EDIT: I've also still problems hitting flying enemys with the aerial attack.

Edited May 15, 2015 by Monster-T

[smithf]

some other reports on weapon handling (rather than just the damage. I learn not to judge a weapon just by numberss...)

 

- Boltace ALMOST becomes bearable with a full fury. Without one, I frankly can't stand using it.

- Boltace as quick melee feels awkward due the to slow weapon sheathing. In quick melee, we probably want to use guns as main. Having a melee weapon that takes an eternity to switch back into gun makes me want to curse it every time.

 

 

 

Below are some "tips" from my own experience with Boltace (do share yours!)

 

- Use Fury. The (small) difference in speed and response can have a large qualitative difference in the weapon handling.

 

- Use melee mode. To avoid the slow weapon switching.

 

- when trying to break containers or hit single enemies, use at least TWO strikes. There is a good chance the first one will miss due to some quirk range or hitbox or animation problem.

 

 

 

But frankly speaking, now that I got mine to rank 30, it's going into "my vault" and probably staying there.  If I could kiss my Orthos Prime now that I equip it back, I would. The Boltace experience just makes me appreciate it more (for its handling, not just bare stats)

Edited May 15, 2015 by smithf