Limbo Changes For Usability

[S7ORM]

So, this is the second frame specific thread, the first being Saryn Ability Changes for Scalability. This time, I'm focusing on Limbo.
Disclaimer: I'm no pro Limbo -- however, neither is a large majority of the playerbase. This puts Limbo in a bad spot, because very few people want to put the effort in to learn how to play him well. So, I've devised some changes in hopes of making playing the Redoubtable Magician of the Rift a bit simpler, while still rewarding those who are skilled.

I also, through the use of augments, hoped to provide several styles of play for potential Limbo users. In these suggestions, I can see a Healer/Protection, Melee frame, Offensive Strike frame, Area Defensive and CC frame potential.

 

Coming back to this thread, lets add a Passive Ability:

- +10% faster fire rate on CHARGE fire weapons

This benefits Limbo's usage of Rift Walk and Banish, allowing him to prepare a shot, Banish an enemy and immediately fire -- a common strategy for Limbo players. In addition to this ability, I consider the Energy Regen while in the Rift to be a form of Passive Ability as well, so I consider that complete.
 

Banish:

-When cast normally on an enemy, acts as it does now
-When cast button is held down, acts as a hitscan equivalent of Ember's Fireball, affecting a small AoE around the impact point. This impact point can be a surface in addition to an ally or enemy.
-Enemies that were cast directly on are knocked down, AoE does not do knockdown
-Works on Teammates

-Enemies cannot buff their allies that are not on the same side of the Rift.
-One handed action, can be cast while moving (Target is based on target when ability was activated, not when the animation finishes)

Area of Effect: 2/3/4/5 (Unaffected by Power Stats)
Power Duration: 10/15/20/25s (Affected by Power Duration)
Damage: 250/300/400/500 (Affected by Power Strength)

This is done to increase the effectiveness of the skill, allowing Limbo to bring multiple enemies into the rift at once when in close proximity, but still being able to single out targets when needed.
Further, the fact that you can send enemies AND teammates to the rift at the same time means your teammates don't have to sit and wait if you hit them with Banish -- they can keep shooting/swinging immediately.
The clause for having enemies unable to buff other enemies while on opposite sides of the Rift is to increase the utility of Limbo, being able to single out targets like Ancients and Eximi, making the fight easier for teammates outside the RIft.

Augment: Haven:
-When cast on squadmate or companion, it heals then over time as long as they remain in the Rift, up to a maximum (based on affected Warframe's max health).
-Once health reaches full or the max value, it stops regenerating, even if the affected player loses health again while in the same Banishment
-Does not drain Limbo's energy while active. It's a single cast power.

 

Maximum Restored: 15/30/45/60% of Max  (Affected by Power Strength)

Health per Second: 5/10/15/20 (Affected by Power Strength)
Duration: 25/20/15/10 (Affected by Power Duration)

More like Oberon's Renewal, this skill regenerates health over time while in the Rift. It encourages players to play in the Rift, as it will regen health even as they lose it fighting enemies -- providing they stay in the Rift to fight. Total health recovered can be increased by both Power Strength and Power Duration, rewarding longer, tougher fights, or allowing quicker heals for teammates.

Rift Walk:

-Sentinel/Kubrows are also brought into the void

-Ability is a one-handed action that can be cast while moving
Ability is great as it is.

Seems like it should have been there in the first place. Now, I know a lot of people argue that it should have a faster cast time, but I disagree. You're literally becoming invincible to everything except the Stalker/Hunter/G3/Manics, so you can get out of the line of fire before you cast it -- alternatively, use Natural Talent.
Allowing Rift Walk to be a one-handed cast mean that players can more fluidly transition between the Rift and normal planes -- particularily to use more fluidly the Rift Surge changes, which encourage players to leave some enemies in the Rift. Now, players can move INTO the rift with a charges weapon shot in addition to moving OUT of the Rift as such.

Augment: Rift Break:

-Prematurely ending Rift Walk detonates a small AoE around Limbo, sending enemies into the rift

-Enemies caught in the AoE will receive a knockdown and will be sent into the rift (those already in the rift are simply knocked down)

-Enemies sent to the Rift by this effect will return to the normal plane after a short duration 

 

-Range: 2/3/4/5  (Affected by Power Range)

-Duration: 5/7/8/10  (Affected  by Power Duration)

 

For the more tactical-assault-inclined Tenno, this augment allows Limbo to bring large groups of enemies into the Rift at once; with preparation, into the line of fire of Limbo's already banished teammates -- or the knockdown allows Limbo to recast Rift Walk and deal with them himself. This augment also allows Limbo to invert the common usage of his skills -- giving relief to teammates instead of just himself, who are under fire, downed, or trying to revive a downed teammate.
Additionally, it allows Limbo to drop Cataclysm on a defense objective, with his squad mates inside of it, and bring multiple enemies outside of the Cataclysm into the rift as target practice.
I was opposed to Cataclysm having knockdown because of its size -- allowing massive area CC. With a short range knockdown, I hope it won't be as abusable.

Rift Surge:

-Limbo surges energy through spacial distortions, increasing weapon damage for each tear in the rift.

-Weapon damage increase for all players based on how many Actors (players and enemies) are in the rift.

 

Weapon Damage Increase per Actor: 5/10/15/20% (Affected by Power Strength)
Duration: 10/15/20/25 (Affected by Power Duration)

This was the original reason I wanted to do Limbo's changes. I've posted before, on other Limbo threads in agreement that Limbo is too squishy in the Rift and casting Cataclysm on a group of enemies is a bad idea for him. What I've done here is given the players options: Without the augment, Limbo becomes a high damage offensive frame, good for thinning out the numbers in a large group of enemies. With the augment, he becomes an area control defensive frame, allow him to survive an onslaught of enemies.

This change should allow Limbo to be able to work an Area Control game while his teammates fight in other areas of the map in addition to having all players stick together. My original intention was to focus on having all players play in the Rift, but I realized most players still wouldn't like that, so I decided to try something else instead.

The bonus is applied for each Actor in the Rift. For example, Limbo and 1 squad mate in the Rift applies a 40% damage increase at base stats. Limbo and 4 enemies applies a 100% damage increase at base stats.

This is a risk-reward skill. You can banish a large number of enemies for a massive damage increase, but you lose the safe haven that is the Rift.

Augment: Rift Guard:
-Limbo draws energy from spacial distortions, increasing his defense for each entity in the rift.
-Weapon damage increase for squad mates based on how many enemies are in the rift.
-Damage Reduction for Limbo only, based on how many enemies are in the rift.

 

Weapon Damage Increase per Actor: 5/10/15/20% (Affected by Power Strength)
Damage Reduction per Enemy: 5/7/8/10% (Affected by Power Strength, capped at 70%)

Duration: 10/15/20/25 (Affected by Power Duration)

As I said above, this augment allows him to change from an offensive frame to a defensive frame. I've said before and I stick with it -- the good augments are ones that allow a player to change their style of play, not the augments that add something directly to an ability that should have been there before.

 

Additionally, this lets Limbo bring a large number of enemies into the Rift in order to benefit his teammates, without having to worry about the overwhelming numbers for his low health and shields (since splitting enemies into banished and non-banished means he can't drop into his safe zone at any given time.

Cataclysm

-Enemies hit by the opening of Cataclysm are staggered towards the origin point of the Cataclysm.

-Ammo/Resources/Mods inside the Cataclysm are able to be picked up. Not energy or health.

-Consoles and Datamasses should still be interactable while inside Cataclysm, as the objects should also be inside the Rift.

Should be a given. Those are objects, so while in the cataclysm they should also be in the rift. I'd argue health and energy orbs have void-like properties, so they don't have to be affected by Limbo's power.

The stagger is added to allow better grouping of enemies for AoE weapons -- it won't pull them like Mag's old Pull, but it will bring them a little bit closer. This stagger will always cause the enemies to stumble towards the centre of the Cataclysm (mainly to avoid knocking them out of the Cataclysm on cast).

As for objects still being interactable in Cataclysm, this is only specific to Cataclysm. Rift Walk and Banish should prevent players from interacting with those objects. This would stop some of the frustration of using Limbo on all missions that aren't Endless (and also  Excavation especially).

Augment: Rousing Cataclysm
-Tenno shields have reduced recharge delay while inside the Cataclysm (for reference, the normal delay is 3 seconds).

Delay: 2.5/2.0/1.5/1.0s  (Unaffected by Power Stats)

 

More support for Limbo as a healer and a defensive frame. Synergizes with his Rift Surge augment to allow him to play the role of a tank, and we all know synergy is something skills should have.
Now, your teammates shouldn't get angry at you for throwing up a big bubble while they're fighting a group of enemies -- you're keeping them alive!

Also, something needs to be done about the responsiveness of switching planes while there is even slight lag ingame.
Discuss. Feedback is appreciated if constructive.

EDIT:
-Reduced Damage bonus from Rift Surge
-Removed the infinite knockdown Cataclysm augment in favour of survivability. Changed the way Haven works, to promote staying inside the rift, rather than recasting over and over.
-Just realized I didn't specify the damage bonus was only for weapons. Don't want to be too strong, now. It's about balance.
-Added an alternative suggestion from this thread for a third ability
-Changes Banish to allow AoE and singular banishing.

-Removed Rift Rune suggestion. Added another Augment suggestion for Rift Walk.

-Removed Rift Bout, as being able to melee enemies from inside the rift would be a bit OP. Misc. spelling/grammar fixes.

-Changed Rift Surge %'s to be compensate for loss of Damage % compared to original Rift Surge

-Rift Surge now gives initial damage increase to all damage sources (including abilities), then only weapon damage for the bonus.

-Haven now has a max health it can regenerate (affected by power strength) per cast.

-Added a Passive.

-Slight stagger added to Cataclysm. Changed Cataclysm augment to reduce shield recharge delay, not eliminate it.

- Removed the line "-Bonus only applies when in the Rift" from Rift Surge and it's Augment. Changed the way they work: they'll now give bonuses to players on both sides of the Rift, but dependent on how many enemies are in the Rift. This way, Limbo is able to work an Area Control game while his teammates fight in other areas of the map in addition to having all players stick together.

-Changed Rift Surge again to be affected by the total number of beings inside the Rift. This includes both players and enemies.

-Changed the numbers on the new Rift Surge so it would be reasonable to be affected by Power Strength

-Added a clause to Banish to prevent enemies on one side of the Rift buffing those on the other side.

-Added a clause to make Rift Walk a one-handed action like Banish

-Banish is now single target on normal cast, AoE on held down (since Ivara added that as a power option now). Increased range to compensate for more control

Edited January 10, 2016 by S7ORM

[Okamibanshu88]

hey now, no altering my design. they kept pretty neat and pretty to my theme, i think he works well >:) he is evil, banishes foe, and can create one on one opponents. "Oh, yoru gaining an advantage on me?" poof, poof' there massive damage going out and back in, lets continue shall we?" bwahahaha! i love limbo >:)

 

so let me comment on teh actual ideas though. Why would an enemy be knocke dover? Stunned, maybe stuble sure, but theirs no actual force being spent on the person being moved between the void and normal reality, so knocking over doesnt' really make sence. And having it effect allies, is kinda nnoying. I know a more then once, i've hit an ally who jumped infront of me at the wrong moment. Its not fair to punish them, when i gotta slap them back to normal space just so they can fight again.

 

the second one, i rather like. While i do agree your pets/sentinel's should pop in with out, i can understand why they don't. That being said, i LOVE teh melee concept. Hitting an enemy with a melee hit, and then blasting them away with a shotgun, would be a sound and awesome strategy, me likey :)

 

personally i feel like the third might make limbo a touch over powered. I mean, i've sent huge groups into the void, unless its changed, i have no limit, add in the bubble. i coudl becoming invinsible even in normal reality. So dunno, maybe thats just me but i dont' like that one

 

the last i rather like. Ammo is a touch annoying, but i tend to go melee inside the void after activating my damage modifier anyways :) but being able to pick up guns, would be nice. Seeing as how i can enter the void, and shoot into the bubble from outside, it would help to have more ammo. That being said, the knock down, once again, no outside force is being given. So unless shifting from one plane to the next, exerted some sort of phsyical force, the knock down doesn't make sence. Personally, my original concept was sorta like a curtain of water. It sweeps over the target, and while it might hurt, it would leave them unscathed/unmoved for the most part. Perhaps a vaccume concept could be put in place to make sence, it IS the void, so knocking them over would make sence. And since limbo is so used to it, he's 'prepare'd so he doesnt' stumble.

[S7ORM]

 

hey now, no altering my design. they kept pretty neat and pretty to my theme, i think he works well >:) he is evil, banishes foe, and can create one on one opponents. "Oh, yoru gaining an advantage on me?" poof, poof' there massive damage going out and back in, lets continue shall we?" bwahahaha! i love limbo >:)

 

so let me comment on teh actual ideas though. Why would an enemy be knocke dover? Stunned, maybe stuble sure, but theirs no actual force being spent on the person being moved between the void and normal reality, so knocking over doesnt' really make sence. And having it effect allies, is kinda nnoying. I know a more then once, i've hit an ally who jumped infront of me at the wrong moment. Its not fair to punish them, when i gotta slap them back to normal space just so they can fight again.

The enemies are already knocked over when you use Banish on them. I was just turning Banish into a slight AoE ability to facilitate ease of fighting enemies. As a supposed "Master of the Rift," he is currently very inefficient in using it.

Allies can already roll to remove themselves from the rift, and being able to Banish them can be quite useful, since they can still use Warframe Powers to hit non-rift enemies, so being able to put Teammates into the Rift is a good thing. You don't have to un-banish them, they can do it themselves already. A lot of people don't know that though, because they don't see Limbo that often. I'm hoping to make him more common, by making him easier to use for the general populace of the playerbase.

 

the second one, i rather like. While i do agree your pets/sentinel's should pop in with out, i can understand why they don't. That being said, i LOVE teh melee concept. Hitting an enemy with a melee hit, and then blasting them away with a shotgun, would be a sound and awesome strategy, me likey :)

 

It just seems to me, a bit dumb that enemies shooting at me while I'm in the rift may accidentally kill my Kubrow or Sentinel instead. And yes, I do like the idea of being able to melee enemies into the rift too.

 

personally i feel like the third might make limbo a touch over powered. I mean, i've sent huge groups into the void, unless its changed, i have no limit, add in the bubble. i coudl becoming invinsible even in normal reality. So dunno, maybe thats just me but i dont' like that one

The suggestion for Rift Surge by me is actually less powerful than the current Rift Torrent, which is his Rift Surge Augement. I don't like augments that just increase the numbers on a skill -- if the numbers needed to be increased, why not just put it on the original skill? Originally, Rift Surge gave 200% damage increase, affected by power strength, and Torrent added an additional 20% per enemy in the rift. My Rift Surge only adds 100% + 20% for each enemy in the Rift.

 

The point of how I designed that skill is to reward bringing lots of enemies into the Rift -- a place that is normally safe for Limbo, with his low health/shields/armor, now overrun by enemies. The skill rewards that kind of offensive, bold strategy. The damage multiplier is constantly in flux, too, so when you kill enemies, your damage multiplier reduces by 20% for each killed, because you removed an enemy from the rift. Since most weapons that aren't AoE blast (Ogris, Penta, etc) can't take out whole groups of enemies at once, the more enemies in the rift you kill, the more difficult it becomes to kill them. It encourages you to constantly be banishing enemies.

 

Further, the original skill and its augment only gave Limbo a bonus to damage. Because of that, teammates have little reason to actually play with the Limbo in the rift. By extending that bonus to them, it encourages the team to make the most use of the powers, not just Limbo.

However, I do understand the concern for OPness. I can tweak the numbers if you give a suggestion of what you'd like to see.

 

For the augement, you cap damage reduction at 80%, which requires 10 enemies in the void. That's quite a few, which you'll likely only reach with Cataclysm, so I think it's rewarding enough.

 

In both cases, the affects only apply to Limbo whilst he is in the rift, so you can't just cast Cataclysm somewhere, then leave the rift and go somewhere else with OP damage bonus. I'll add a line to explain that.

 

the last i rather like. Ammo is a touch annoying, but i tend to go melee inside the void after activating my damage modifier anyways :) but being able to pick up guns, would be nice. Seeing as how i can enter the void, and shoot into the bubble from outside, it would help to have more ammo. That being said, the knock down, once again, no outside force is being given. So unless shifting from one plane to the next, exerted some sort of phsyical force, the knock down doesn't make sence. Personally, my original concept was sorta like a curtain of water. It sweeps over the target, and while it might hurt, it would leave them unscathed/unmoved for the most part. Perhaps a vaccume concept could be put in place to make sence, it IS the void, so knocking them over would make sence. And since limbo is so used to it, he's 'prepare'd so he doesnt' stumble.

Fair enough as an explanation, but Cataclysm already applied Blast damage to enemies when it is cast, so there does seem to be something going on that distorts the enemies' balance.

EDIT: I changed the OP so Cataclysm doesn't do knockdown now. Instead, it contributes to regenerating shields by removing the delay.

 

Thanks for the feedback, I'll update the main post with some of the things I've mentioned.

Edited May 15, 2015 by S7ORM

[skRose]

because I don't feel like creating a thread on my idea of some changes to Limbo, I'll throw them your way and you can do with them as you wish

Make his first ability chargable,
just like a bow or opticor charge - kamehamehaa super saiyan style with one hand, an energy blast than when held down and released it will create the aoe that'll drag a bunch of enemies into the rift. And when simply pressed down, it'll just target one enemy/ally. This way he has the best of both worlds being able to stay a VIP target assassin whilst being able to effectively deal with a larger group as well.

Second ability, nothin to change

Third - it'd be hella nice to see this apply to allies in the rift.
Let limbo allies gain this buff while in the rift, but only at half of what Limbo gains since he is master of the rift after all

Fourth - here's my twist on it. Have him phase in and out of invisibility. This'll give him more of a distorted presence to enemies in the rift, boost his survivability as well as his suitability which will add on to the whole 'Master of the rift plane' idea. An ode to his being spread across dimensions fiasco. Combined with his third ability I feel would make him more suitable to fight in his cataclysm and really make his area a true arena that he will be the champion of.

This could be done in intervals and affected by duration fading in and out, or could have him run around invis being phased out of the cloak once he attacks and phasing back into invisibility afterwards but slowly, kind of fading back into nothingness. [similar to twitch from League of Legends, if you know of him]

Of course items should also be dragged into the void - but only with cataclysm since it's an aoe. When you're singularly in the rift I feel that it shouldn't apply (as nice as it would be, it wouldn't make too much sense.)

Edit: I'm also all for those augments you listed - loving the idea of them!

Edited May 16, 2015 by skRose

[Kaiservadin]

Maybe make limbo a starting frame, as i heard mixed thoughts about him mostly bad so i am not sure if i should get him or not.

[PhillipJokar]

Aside from needing a smaller reticle aim on banish so I hit teammates less, I love Limbo.

 

Edit: and maybe a faster cast of rift walk.

 

Edited May 16, 2015 by PhillipJokar

[S7ORM]

because I don't feel like creating a thread on my idea of some changes to Limbo, I'll throw them your way and you can do with them as you wish

Make his first ability chargable,

just like a bow or opticor charge - kamehamehaa super saiyan style with one hand, an energy blast than when held down and released it will create the aoe that'll drag a bunch of enemies into the rift. And when simply pressed down, it'll just target one enemy/ally. This way he has the best of both worlds being able to stay a VIP target assassin whilst being able to effectively deal with a larger group as well.

Second ability, nothin to change

Third - it'd be hella nice to see this apply to allies in the rift.

Let limbo allies gain this buff while in the rift, but only at half of what Limbo gains since he is master of the rift after all

Fourth - here's my twist on it. Have him phase in and out of invisibility. This'll give him more of a distorted presence to enemies in the rift, boost his survivability as well as his suitability which will add on to the whole 'Master of the rift plane' idea. An ode to his being spread across dimensions fiasco. Combined with his third ability I feel would make him more suitable to fight in his cataclysm and really make his area a true arena that he will be the champion of.

This could be done in intervals and affected by duration fading in and out, or could have him run around invis being phased out of the cloak once he attacks and phasing back into invisibility afterwards but slowly, kind of fading back into nothingness. [similar to twitch from League of Legends, if you know of him]

Of course items should also be dragged into the void - but only with cataclysm since it's an aoe. When you're singularly in the rift I feel that it shouldn't apply (as nice as it would be, it wouldn't make too much sense.)

Edit: I'm also all for those augments you listed - loving the idea of them!

Your idea for the first skill is interesting...

I'm not sure

 

Maybe make limbo a starting frame, as i heard mixed thoughts about him mostly bad so i am not sure if i should get him or not.

Making Limbo a starting frame is a really bad a idea, I think. Currently, he's not easy to play, so giving him to players with A) little experience in the game already, B) few mods and resources to be able to utilize his skills properly..., C) terrible weapons to defend their squishy warframe

It's similar to why loki was removed as a starter. A squishy, technical support frame is no place for a new player.

 

Aside from needing a smaller reticle aim on banish so I hit teammates less, I love Limbo.

 

Edit: and maybe a faster cast of rift walk.

 

I already stated my reasoning for not having a faster rift walk. It's his point of vulnerability. If you die during cast, get to cover before it expires and cast it again.

I don't think [DE] is going to change the reticle. I think my suggestion would actually encourage players to play in the rift though, so they wouldn't be as angry when you banish them, and you can also catch enemies in the Banish cast even if you hit your teammate.

[Cycrol]

Limbo is a gentleman themed frame. Why not make him have "honorable matches". While in the rift onle melee is allowed, since afterall gentlemans play fair and square limbo too can use melee only while rifTed.

Enemies in the rift are forced to take up arms and sheath their ranged weapons. For enemies with no melee wpn limbo glandly provides them with a skana wich deals asmuch dmg as their previous ranged wpn so its a fair fight. I mean, a galatine/glaive/jat/etc against a stick? Thats unfair and not likely from sir limbo.

However once enemies/limbo/allies exit the rift, the fairness ends too. And everyones is free to take againranged wpns. Enemies recover their guns.

That wouldfixmany problems for limbo while not needing more fixes/buffs/nerfs that will never come from DE :v

Edited May 16, 2015 by Cycrol

[S7ORM]

Limbo is a gentleman themed frame. Why not make him have "honorable matches". While in the rift onle melee is allowed, since afterall gentlemans play fair and square limbo too can use melee only while rifTed.

Enemies in the rift are forced to take up arms and sheath their ranged weapons. For enemies with no melee wpn limbo glandly provides them with a skana wich deals asmuch dmg as their previous ranged wpn so its a fair fight. I mean, a galatine/glaive/jat/etc against a stick? Thats unfair and not likely from sir limbo.

However once enemies/limbo/allies exit the rift, the fairness ends too. And everyones is free to take againranged wpns. Enemies recover their guns.

That wouldfixmany problems for limbo while not needing more fixes/buffs/nerfs that will never come from DE :v

Made me laugh.

If you're serious, I just have to point out that it doesn't really make sense for either A) guns to suddenly stop working in the rift -- and even if they added lore for that, I believe it would be a big turnoff for lots of players. Plus, Excal's rework is making him the Melee-man, and B) why would a space ninja give his enemy a sword. That just doesn't make sense. Also, where would this skana come from? How would the enemy get it? What happens when you banish multiple enemies at once.

Too many inconsistencies.

[RexRgisIocus]

Id prefer Banish to stay as is. Its a life saver when you encounter a Corrupted Bombard since you can isolate it to make it easier to deal with it. Now imagine that Bombard + 2 gunners.

 

Because of the AoE now there are 3 enemies with a lot of HP and Armor that I have to deal with. That could get many players killed.

 

Haven needs to be better. It should work like a single target version of Oberons Renewal. 25% of hp restored on cast and then hp regen for the duration or until hp maxes out. It would be cool if it stopped the bleed out phase for the duration if you banished a downed teammate though it might be too much.

 

For Rift Walk I agree on companions being sent to the Rift as well as Limbo but I'm not completely sure about that augment. I think it would feel too much like Hysteria. What I like about Rift walk is that while you are basically immune to most everything you cant stay in the Rift forever or else you wont contribute much to the team offensively. The trade off makes it seem balanced to me.

 

By being able of banishing simply by meleeing enemies I could simply spend the entire mission being safe killing everything without worrying about being damaged and not being locked in melee mode unlike Hysteria.

 

I'm completely in love with the Rift Surge suggestions specially that augment idea for DR while in the Rift depending on amount of enemies.

 

Good ideas for Cataclysm as well.

 

Overall you sir/ma'am have my +1.

[PsiWarp]

I think your ideas are great. Although, I would like to suggest integrating the area-of-effect functions of Banish and Rift Walk into Rift Surge to spice up the ability synergy, as well as keep the single target functionality for player preference's sake.

 

Rift Surge

- Now a toggleable skill that can be deactivated similar to Rift Walk. Keeps being duration-based but no channeling energy cost.

- When active, Rift Surge adds 2 / 3 / 4 / 5 meters Power Range to Banish and Rift Walk, allowing you to force multiple enemies into the rift through the use of those abilities.

- For example, Banish will affect both its target and those around it. Rift Walk brings enemies around you into the rift when you activate it. Targets affected by the skills will have their ability timers tied to that skill (e.g. those brought into the rift via Rift Walk will exit when you exit as well, although you can still control who exits first by un-banishing them).

- When Rift Surge is active and Limbo is inside Cataclysm, enemies within 2 / 3 / 4 / 5 meters from you are forced back to the normal plane as long as they remain in range. This creates a safety net against melee enemies in your arena.

 

Aside from the changes I mentioned above, your standalone Rift Surge proposal (and augment) is already pretty solid. I just want Limbo's 3rd to not be a waste of energy outside of the rift.

[S7ORM]

Id prefer Banish to stay as is. Its a life saver when you encounter a Corrupted Bombard since you can isolate it to make it easier to deal with it. Now imagine that Bombard + 2 gunners.

 

Because of the AoE now there are 3 enemies with a lot of HP and Armor that I have to deal with. That could get many players killed.

 

Haven needs to be better. It should work like a single target version of Oberons Renewal. 25% of hp restored on cast and then hp regen for the duration or until hp maxes out. It would be cool if it stopped the bleed out phase for the duration if you banished a downed teammate though it might be too much.

 

For Rift Walk I agree on companions being sent to the Rift as well as Limbo but I'm not completely sure about that augment. I think it would feel too much like Hysteria. What I like about Rift walk is that while you are basically immune to most everything you cant stay in the Rift forever or else you wont contribute much to the team offensively. The trade off makes it seem balanced to me.

 

By being able of banishing simply by meleeing enemies I could simply spend the entire mission being safe killing everything without worrying about being damaged and not being locked in melee mode unlike Hysteria.

 

I'm completely in love with the Rift Surge suggestions specially that augment idea for DR while in the Rift depending on amount of enemies.

 

Good ideas for Cataclysm as well.

 

Overall you sir/ma'am have my +1.

Fair enough about the Banish thing. I had just seen several people asking for the ability to banish multiple enemies with one cast -- personally, I like the single target banish as well. The trade-off with the rift walk augment is that the enemies you melee are not knocked down, like with Banish, so if they're already shooting at you, as soon as you touch them their bullets hit you too. But I do understand the concern with what is essentially invulnerability for the entire game -- any suggestions instead?

My original idea was just the Rift Surge + Augment thing, I had to come up with the other ones as I was writing the thread, so not as much inspiration into those. I like your Haven idea though -- I'll play with some numbers in my head to see if I can find a balance.

 

I think your ideas are great. Although, I would like to suggest integrating the area-of-effect functions of Banish and Rift Walk into Rift Surge to spice up the ability synergy, as well as keep the single target functionality for player preference's sake.

 

Rift Surge

- Now a toggleable skill that can be deactivated similar to Rift Walk. Keeps being duration-based but no channeling energy cost.

- When active, Rift Surge adds 2 / 3 / 4 / 5 meters Power Range to Banish and Rift Walk, allowing you to force multiple enemies into the rift through the use of those abilities.

- For example, Banish will affect both its target and those around it. Rift Walk brings enemies around you into the rift when you activate it. Targets affected by the skills will have their ability timers tied to that skill (e.g. those brought into the rift via Rift Walk will exit when you exit as well, although you can still control who exits first by un-banishing them).

- When Rift Surge is active and Limbo is inside Cataclysm, enemies within 2 / 3 / 4 / 5 meters from you are forced back to the normal plane as long as they remain in range. This creates a safety net against melee enemies in your arena.

 

Aside from the changes I mentioned above, your standalone Rift Surge proposal (and augment) is already pretty solid. I just want Limbo's 3rd to not be a waste of energy outside of the rift.

I'm not really a fan of all those player concepts where having one ability active changes the effects of the other abilities. I'm not 100% on why you would want to pull enemies beside you into the rift with Rift Walk -- the cast time means they'll probably already be shooting at you, and by going into the rift you're not escaping the gunfire...

Would not want that last bullet point -- if I'm in cataclysm, I want to be able to kill my enemies. Also, Cataclysm is a point where the Rift and real world are together, so it doesn't really make sense for you to be able to not be in the rift when inside the bubble.

And for your final line, just giving Limbo a damage increase or reduction, I feel, is boring. He's supposed to play with the rift. allowing him to have bonuses while NOT in the rift seems counter-intuitive.

[S7ORM]

Id prefer Banish to stay as is. Its a life saver when you encounter a Corrupted Bombard since you can isolate it to make it easier to deal with it. Now imagine that Bombard + 2 gunners.

 

Because of the AoE now there are 3 enemies with a lot of HP and Armor that I have to deal with. That could get many players killed.

 

Haven needs to be better. It should work like a single target version of Oberons Renewal. 25% of hp restored on cast and then hp regen for the duration or until hp maxes out. It would be cool if it stopped the bleed out phase for the duration if you banished a downed teammate though it might be too much.

 

For Rift Walk I agree on companions being sent to the Rift as well as Limbo but I'm not completely sure about that augment. I think it would feel too much like Hysteria. What I like about Rift walk is that while you are basically immune to most everything you cant stay in the Rift forever or else you wont contribute much to the team offensively. The trade off makes it seem balanced to me.

 

By being able of banishing simply by meleeing enemies I could simply spend the entire mission being safe killing everything without worrying about being damaged and not being locked in melee mode unlike Hysteria.

 

I'm completely in love with the Rift Surge suggestions specially that augment idea for DR while in the Rift depending on amount of enemies.

 

Good ideas for Cataclysm as well.

 

Overall you sir/ma'am have my +1.

Hmm... I'd like to return Banish to the original, but Limbo needs a way to draw enemies into the Rift more quickly. I'm thinking the Rift Walk augment could be swapped out for something that achieves that, or at least changed in such a way as to reduce the invincibility feeling, while still bringing enemies into the Rift easily and quickly...

Any suggestions?

[RexRgisIocus]

Hmm... I'd like to return Banish to the original, but Limbo needs a way to draw enemies into the Rift more quickly. I'm thinking the Rift Walk augment could be swapped out for something that achieves that, or at least changed in such a way as to reduce the invincibility feeling, while still bringing enemies into the Rift easily and quickly...

Any suggestions?

 

I'm thinking something along the lines of it working somewhat like Trinity's Link. While in Rift Walk up to 3-5? enemies in range are linked and dragged to the Rift where they take 50/10/150/200% of damage done to Limbo. Limbo is also immune to cc/status effects if linked to at least one enemy.

 

Numbers might need some tweaks but this offers great utility and even more damage potential while keeping the risk of being overwhelmed if not handled properly. Also I believe it synergizes pretty well with Rift Surge and your idea for its augment. 

 

It all 3 augments come to pass I might end up using all 3...

 

[S7ORM]

I'm thinking something along the lines of it working somewhat like Trinity's Link. While in Rift Walk up to 3-5? enemies in range are linked and dragged to the Rift where they take 50/10/150/200% of damage done to Limbo. Limbo is also immune to cc/status effects if linked to at least one enemy.

 

Numbers might need some tweaks but this offers great utility and even more damage potential while keeping the risk of being overwhelmed if not handled properly. Also I believe it synergizes pretty well with Rift Surge and your idea for its augment. 

 

It all 3 augments come to pass I might end up using all 3...

 

Hmmm... I was thinking about something like passively moving nearby enemies into the rift, but I had come to the conclusion that it would be more harmful overall...

I think it needs to be more optional.. Plus I'm not really a fan of adding A)more damage reduction, B)a copy of link...

[RexRgisIocus]

Hmmm... I was thinking about something like passively moving nearby enemies into the rift, but I had come to the conclusion that it would be more harmful overall...

I think it needs to be more optional.. Plus I'm not really a fan of adding A)more damage reduction, B)a copy of link...

 

It would not be a damage reduction skill. Limbo would still take normal damage.

 

I do agree that having copies of other abilities is lame but I don't really have an idea for a Rift Walk augment that would permit enemies to be banished faster that wouldn't feel like another Hysteria.

 

[S7ORM]

It would not be a damage reduction skill. Limbo would still take normal damage.

 

I do agree that having copies of other abilities is lame but I don't really have an idea for a Rift Walk augment that would permit enemies to be banished faster that wouldn't feel like another Hysteria.

 

Yeah, I'm stuck there too. I'll give it some thought overnight, and going forwards. What was your thoughts on the Banish Augment as it is now?

Edited May 18, 2015 by S7ORM

[RexRgisIocus]

Yeah, I'm stuck there too. I'll give it some thought overnight, and going forwards. What was your thoughts on the Banish Augment as it is now?

 

You mean the current Haven? It useless imo. I wont be wasting a mod slot if I can only heal 25% hp per cast. Id have to stand in place and hope my teammate does as well so that I can cast and re cast Banish to max his hp.

 

Its useful as an extra hp source if there are no healers or if no one has hp restores sure and maybe that was the intention but it feels way to clunky and I just prefer using the mod slot for something else.

 

[Zavenosk]

Limbo is my default frame, i pretty much switch to others only for a sheer utility value (snow globe, desicrate, etc.) or leveling.  I'm all for improving it as long as it's trademark survivability isn't compromised.  

 

My idea of improvement:

Rift walk becomes toggleable, active permanently until untoggeled, but only restores (0.5 ... 2.0) energy per second.  Energy gain is affected by power strength.  

 

A lot of the ideas here are good.  some, less so.  I applaud the efforts of everyone here to try and build a better Limbo!

Edited May 18, 2015 by Zezakh

[RexRgisIocus]

My idea of improvement:

Rift walk becomes toggleable, active permanently until untoggeled, but only restores (0.5 ... 2.0) energy per second.  Energy gain is affected by power strength.  

 

A lot of the ideas here are good.  some, less so.  I applaud the efforts of everyone here to try and build a better Limbo!

 

Rift Walk doesn't need to be toggle. Its duration is there to prevent perma invulnerability. As for the energy restoration, its already supposedly affected by power str according to the wiki but I haven't noticed this ever so I'm not entirely sure.

 

Aside from the mechanics that prevent pickups and his 3, Limbo is already in an alright place although not very user friendly. His augments though need some work but don't most of them anyways?

 

[S7ORM]

You mean the current Haven? It useless imo. I wont be wasting a mod slot if I can only heal 25% hp per cast. Id have to stand in place and hope my teammate does as well so that I can cast and re cast Banish to max his hp.

 

Its useful as an extra hp source if there are no healers or if no one has hp restores sure and maybe that was the intention but it feels way to clunky and I just prefer using the mod slot for something else.

 

No, I meant the one listed on the first post, the Heal over time thing.

 

Limbo is my default frame, i pretty much switch to others only for a sheer utility value (snow globe, desicrate, etc.) or leveling.  I'm all for improving it as long as it's trademark survivability isn't compromised.  

 

My idea of improvement:

Rift walk becomes toggleable, active permanently until untoggeled, but only restores (0.5 ... 2.0) energy per second.  Energy gain is affected by power strength.  

 

A lot of the ideas here are good.  some, less so.  I applaud the efforts of everyone here to try and build a better Limbo!

I thought the energy gain was an inherent property of the Rift Plane, not one of Rift Walk, so it wouldn't be affected by power strength.

And yes, I'm trying to improve the survivability when in the rift. Currently, it's too dangerous to pull more than one enemy into the rift at once.

 

Rift Walk doesn't need to be toggle. Its duration is there to prevent perma invulnerability. As for the energy restoration, its already supposedly affected by power str according to the wiki but I haven't noticed this ever so I'm not entirely sure.

 

Aside from the mechanics that prevent pickups and his 3, Limbo is already in an alright place although not very user friendly. His augments though need some work but don't most of them anyways?

 

I'm in agreement with this post.

[RexRgisIocus]

No, I meant the one listed on the first post, the Heal over time thing.

 

If you mean about my suggestion that Haven should be sorta like a single target Renewal I would think 25% and around 2hp per sec (not affected by power str) would be doable and not that unbalanced. You are also immune while in the Rift after all.

 

Alternatively it could not heal in a burst and simply be HoT of around 5-10hp per sec affected by power str?

 

It would open up Limbo as a emergency healer like Hydroid with his Curative Undertow but it would not undermine Oberon's or Trinity's job.

 

[S7ORM]

If you mean about my suggestion that Haven should be sorta like a single target Renewal I would think 25% and around 2hp per sec (not affected by power str) would be doable and not that unbalanced. You are also immune while in the Rift after all.

 

Alternatively it could not heal in a burst and simply be HoT of around 5-10hp per sec affected by power str?

 

It would open up Limbo as a emergency healer like Hydroid with his Curative Undertow but it would not undermine Oberon's or Trinity's job.

 

I mean that I've already changed it from when you first read the thread. Read it again and tell me what you think of how I've described it.

[RexRgisIocus]

I mean that I've already changed it from when you first read the thread. Read it again and tell me what you think of how I've described it.

 

Oh my bad xD. Looks pretty good and I noticed you made the AoE slightly smaller on Banish so that its possible to Banish single targets without bringing in a whole group. Overall pretty nice.

 

[(XBOX)George Dooby]

It takes too damn long to banish dudes, which sucks in a game where 95% of the time you are fighting group after group of enemies