Another Limbo Rework Suggestion Thread (I Promise This'll Be Worth It)

[-BM-Mitz]

I've put a lot of thought into what problems we, as players, have when using Limbo and I'd like to put my suggestions for what would be, in my opinion, an amazing rework.

 

Banish

 

Banish would target anything as long as the item/surface you're aiming for is within range and banish to the rift everyone withing ~2-3m diameter around the cast location. It won't take too much dedication to a range build before you can freely banish a squad of enemies or a small force charging at you from a visible spawn point. This will solve a simple problem with Banish- it's not worth the cast on a single target. That's an almost universally agreed on remark by what I've seen in the player base. It'll also work on allies as well allowing you to aim straight down or on a nearby surface to banish yourself as well. This will be the way Banish and Rift Walk will be merged. Yes, it'll be more bothersome to banish yourself alone but it'll be something we can get used to and utilize I'm sure. 

 

Rift Surge

 

With Rift Walk being combined into Banish, Rift Surge will take it's position as a second power. My idea for a change for this ability is to make it's casting animation non-existing similar to Volt's Speed and to banish you when casted if you're not in the rift at the time. This will allow you to banish yourself right after (or before) casting Banish on enemies and start engaging them without wasting much time. It'll make him able to go in the rift with a buff ready to utilize his superiority in the rift. As for going out of the rift, the player can always use the double tap on the sprint key to roll out of it. I know it's annoying but for the strength Limbo carries, I'm confident such little things will be something we can adapt to when using him. When rolling off the rift you'll retain your buf fin damage from Rift Surge and it'll still be active with ti's duration counting down. Like Mirage's Eclipse, I think we should make it recastable mid-duration so he can refresh his buff and rebanish himself for another round against the poor poor bastards that are in the rift with him.

Sidenote: banished targets in range of a second cast will be unbanished letting you still retain some level of control over who's on which plane.

Sidenote N2: I'd love to see a small passive effect on Limbo that appears in his normal state but is a lot stronger visually in his banished state that'll indicate he has a buff active like how Volt has his lightning.

 

 

Views so far:

 

Looking at how his first 2 powers work, it's easy to see him pulling a lot of enemies in the rift and engaging them while rapidly switching between rift and real plane. both abilities can be used for defense or offence depending on your needs. In crisis, Rift Surge can banish you to avoid damage while Banish can be sued to engage enemies little by little.

Rift Surge's utility seems a bit too much now doesn't it? Also considering the power regen from the rift, I propose buffing the power cost to 75 like how Valkyr's Warcry is. Yes, it'll be one damn expensive banish but it'll be damn useful for what it does both for protecting you and for buffs. Other balance changes like nurfing a bit the buff/duration of the ability to accommodate the banish state are a plausible alternative as well. 

In an offensive situation, he'll use from time to time Rift Surge and keep banishing enemies to engage them (which reminds me to ask for a hasty cast animation for Banish to resemble something like Ember's Fireball).

While in defense, his fast banish can save allies and he can cast it right over a fallen ally to banish himself and the ally while reviving in peace with one move! As for stacking Banish duration when affected by both abilities- they will be counted parallel (example: banish will give you 10 secs, then surge will give you 5 secs and after 5 secs you'll loose surge but stay banished till the longer ability ends or you roll out of it).

Sidenote: Banishing with this power may or may not affect your companion but if it does, rolling out of it will pull them out of it as well.

 

3rd power:

 

Well, now that we have a spare power position, it's time to brainstorm ideas for different ways of utilizing the rift. My personal suggestion may seem odd but lets keep an open mind please. As many of you know, a  lot of people want powers to damage enemies and actually try and fight with powers only often. Most of the experienced players know that powers scale badly in late game and only a few are usable past a certain point (looks at bladestorm, miasma and others). I think to add some diversity into the way Limbo can be played in up to mid-game situation without a hinch, allowing us to explore a different build style: power strength oriented.

My sugestion for a power is the Rift Wave (Rift Pulse/Burst/Blast etc..... are all alternatives). Here's how it'll work:

The power will be a radial blast with Limbo's position being the center point and the wave having travel time but still being fast. It'll be casted only on the ground (no mid-flight casts) and will have a different affect on enemies caught in it's burst.

  Non- banished mobs: This ability will banish them for a certain duration (lower by far compared to Banish but still enough to make some use of it) and will knock them back(basically force a Blast(or impact) proc from the transition of plane). Usefulness? It'll have a larger range than Banish by far and will affect only enemies allowing you to banish a horde of infested over a troubled teammate to let them escape the clusterf**k (pardon my French) since they'll be banished and your teammate won't be. Can also be used to control some area around you if you're getting overwhelmed or just need some way to get some finishers done without wasting time slam attacking in a melee oriented build.

  Banished mobs: If any already banished mobs are caught into the area of effect of this ability, they will take a huge amount of damage in Blast type(or impact). The amount I cannot decide on myself but I'm thinking around 1,000-1,500 damage since it requires synergy with other abilities in order to work. Another idea I've been thinking is to make some synergy between this power and Cataclysm but I haven't decided if it'll be with an augment or some build-in feature. The idea is that affected enemies that are in Cataclysm while this power is casted on them will be violently thrown out from the rift and ragdolled out of Cataclysm's bubble.

This power will give a lot of aditional ways to damage and CC as well as support and I think it'll be a great addition to Limbo.

 

Cataclysm

 

Not much I can say for changes of his last power, I'm pretty confident it'll work well in this skill set. The only thing I can probably wish would be for this power to have a larger range like 20-25 meters at rank 30 because the lower range AOE will be the previous power.

 

 

 

 

 

As far as general rift mechanics go, the change list is rather simple but keep in mind we still need to keep some weaknesses to the rift for balance reasons.

Here we go:

 

In cataclysm we can still pick up items and hack consoles as well as move in and out while carrying cells/data masses etc...

While banished outside of the AOE of Cataclysm, a target won't be able to pick up loots and ammo and stuff including mission specific items like cells and data masses.(we can be banished with them if we've picked them up before being send to the rift). I know this will cause problems but will make Limbo harder to play since you'll need to go in and out of his own little world if you want to get some merits from the battle's loot. It'll add some difficulty and some need for skill play when using him which is what I'm sure we want him to have.

 

With this I end my proposition post for Limbo, thank you for reading and please comment on will you play a Limbo like this? Will he be better off? What balance changes would you make if he seems over/underpowered like this? Do you see potential different builds that can be made to play him in different ways? (very important for me personally)

[Leavith]

I actually thought about this and well i decided to  take a look and well ur ideas is not game breaking ur actually making one of limbo property which is all his power work well together, better and also iving them in a sense of independence as well as finally giving him a legit damage

Edited June 8, 2015 by Leavith

[-BM-Mitz]

I actually thought well lets take a lok and well r not game breaking ur actually making one of limbo property which is all his power work well together better and also iving them a sense of independence as well as finally giving him a legit damage

 

Thank you very much ^^

[halofury36]

Well I had comments, but apparently my computer is evil and erased all of them....

 

Basically from what I remember, I don't completely dislike your changes, but I was trying to critique them.

 

Banish being an AoE is going to cost more.. that is just how the devs are going to balance it. I also worry that always banishing an area could be frustrating if trying to save an ally from enemies as I have much less control over who goes, ally or enemy.

 

Rift Surge being the merge with Rift Walk actually makes more sense to me, and I still feel Banish should NOT banish you. But, I do feel that being able to hop to the rift would become too prohibitive with the cost increase. 

 

I agree that you being in the rift should pull the sentinel with you, but I am unsure of a kubrow/loose companion. Sometimes it is nice to have them be autonomous. 

 

In response to your third power suggestion, here is my counter proposal. Keep Banish as is (single target), merge Rift Walk and Rift Surge (and yes, increase the cost... ), then keep your third power as is, but make it a cone. Finally, for Cataclysm, I feel that if you use Rift "Wave" it should do damage to all targets in the cone, if they are in the rift or not. It may be hard to implement, but could make the cataclysm have more use, both offensively and defensively.

 

I agree about loot and stuff. Honestly, my biggest desire for Limbo is not a power change as much as just wanting him to be consistent with the Rift, and Cataclysm should definitely be treated separate from the Rift. 

Edited June 24, 2015 by halofury36

[A_Phantom_Thief]

Well I dare say, chap, these are all good ideas, though halofury's comment makes sense as well.

 

Now, if only DE actually remembered Limbo existed.

 

Maybe on his birthday/when they remember they have to make an Immortal Skin for him? Oh well. Props to ya, chap, well done and well thought!

[S7ORM]

[OP]

 

Well now, this post seems familiar...

Wasn't this exact idea posted a few months ago? Not word-for-word, but the same idea.

I recall chatting with the poster. I don't remember if I pointed them towards my Limbo thread: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/457798-limbo-changes-for-usability/

 

Anyways, while getting enemies into the rift can be an issue, I don't think a radial "wave" attack is the best option for doing that -- especially not one with a massive range. Most current Limbo players like the single-target natured play style of Limbo because displacing large groups of enemies into and out of the rift carelessly is hazardous for Limbo. The Rift is supposed to be his safe-space. Large radial attacks (particularly that can go through walls and affect enemies you can't see) mean that there are enemies on both sides of the Rift and if you can't eliminate them all while you still have the advantage (such as Banish's knockdown), you're in a lot of danger.

Cataclysm is Limbo's big "AoE into the Rift" move. His other abilities should be more precise -- not explicitly single target, but small AoE. 

The reason Cataclysm works is because it's a contained area -- when Cataclysm is gone, so are the enemies in the Rift, and you can cancel it at will to save yourself.

That's why, in my thread, I have Banish produce a small AoE when not cast on a single target, and have Rift Walk detonate a small AoE with its augment -- these are controlled Banishments, which is what Limbo is meant to do.