Kato-san Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 (edited) When I started playing and supporting this game I did not put much thought into the alert system I just thought it was a cool way to introduce random unique missions to do, so that you had something different to do other then your repeat same mission over and over again farming routine. But after turning into a RNG system where items and warframs are only obtainable threw the alert my hopes for this game and the direction it is going has went down a lot. With them saying that they learned from the glaive I was hoping that they realized this is not the way to do things, it seems that was not what they meant at all. I liked the idea of having to PLAY the game in order to achieve items, meaning a system where you would have to farm to get what you want by PLAYING the game to achieve what you want. And if I do not want to spend time farming a lot I do not mind the option to use Plat to do so. This is the direction I thought the game was going towards. I noticed the resources needed to farm a lot of the early warframs was not that high, as I was able to get all warframs within less then 2 months, and thought maybe they would increase them later as this is still in beta stage.... But instead of making warframs hard to farm for where you would have to dedicate some time into play the game to get them, it seems they are going in a RNG direction where it is almost impossible to obtain this item unless you pay plat or own an android phone... I am fine with having to farm 25k rubedo or 60k ferrite, 80k nano spores ect, for a warfram, but I not fine with with leaving it up to RNG where I do not have to play the game or have any sense of progression towards anything I would like to get. Reason why this idea is not good, is because this does not encourage you to play the game OR give you any sense of progression towards a goal at all as it is purely RNG based on what time you are on your computer. The alert system should be only a system that introduces unique missions that can give you a decent amount of credits and maybe even increased resource drops. Right now how it is, I feel there is no point to playing this game unless I either rich or have an android phone with an alert app. I am simply speaking out on how I feel about it. If the majority of player base is ok with it I suppose my voice is simply a wast of breath but that is how I feel and I felt I should put it out there in case maybe I not the only one that feels that way about it. Edited May 21, 2013 by MindlessWar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qynchou Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 tl;dr RNG makes it almost impossible to farm a warframe since you can miss alerts which happen randomly and give random item rewards. Thats true, if one wants to farm vauban its going to take a long time + if you miss a blueprint its even harder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altale Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 (edited) Fix your spelling errors before the Grammar/Spelling Nazis arrive. Edited May 21, 2013 by rCaliberGX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archistopheles Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 (edited) But why do you need those particular items right now? The point of this game (as I see it) is to have fun shooting and slashing stuff. There is no item or frame that is ~mandatory~ to advance in this game, so there is really no reason to have everything available for resources which (in my opinion) are relatively easy to aquire. When you look at games that reward you for grinding, they counter-balance the RNG timer by making the cost exponentially higher. It's the same S#&$, it's just that we don't need The Legendary Black Sharp Thing from Boss Big Dude A in order to beat Bigger Boss Dude B2. Edited May 21, 2013 by Archistopheles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kato-san Posted May 21, 2013 Author Share Posted May 21, 2013 (edited) But why do you need those particular items right now? The point of this game (as I see it) is to have fun shooting and slashing stuff. There is no item or frame that is ~mandatory~ to advance in this game, so there is really no reason to have everything available for resources which (in my opinion) are relatively easy to aquire. When you look at games that reward you for grinding, they counter-balance the RNG timer by making the cost exponentially higher. It's the same S#&$, it's just that we don't need The Legendary Black Sharp Thing from Boss Big Dude A in order to beat Bigger Boss Dude B2. There are mandatory frames and items to progress in high level defense missions (like frost for 1 example), but yes the game how it is now for missions other then defense ones there is no challenge and anything can be used sure. And I never said anything about getting them NOW. I talked how they could increase the resource cost as like you said resources are not that hard to get. How it is now I would have to wait 2 years in order to play a warfram like vuaban, and if that is the case and why play if they will continue in that direction with more content like that? Sure the game will reward you for playing it as you get resources ect from play the game. But how it is now you are getting rewarded for having an adroid app on your phone to know 24/7 when there is an alert.... so why that better? Edited May 21, 2013 by MindlessWar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bachanolia Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 I've been feeling this way lately as well. Not just about the Alert system, but about all the missions. I've really enjoyed my time with this game up until this point and love having the alert system app active to jump on when something big pops up. It seems recently, however, these missions and farming has just become too random and tedious. I was fine doing the same mission over and over to get more Rubedo or what have you, but last night I did three missions in Earth and didn't get one piece of Rubedo. I've killed three bosses over the past week or so (first time kills) and didn't get anything more than a common mod and on the alert missions I did, I didn't seem to get anything special other than more credits. I do like the idea of playing the game in order to attain everything we may want to build. But when I feel I am wasting my time just for one or two item drops, i am easily turned off and will move on. Needless to say, there are thousands of games vying for our time. I really like this game, though, and am hoping for the best. I paid for founders pack and have bought a couple frames and odds and ends, and I am glad I did, but I have been thinking that, as developers, if you need the money, just charge people and don't make it free to play. I think I have around 40+ hours. (Maybe not a lot for some people, but it's much more time than I've spent with many other games.) I don't think that making things more difficult to get is going to make people keep playing or pay up, I think it will get them to stop playing. I am almost at this point. I gave up trying to get the Banshee Helmet (the last piece I need). I'm not even sure what I'll spend the rest of my platinum on. I am guessing it is pretty difficult to balance how rewards work for a free to play game and I am glad games are offering free to play models, and I also realize this is still beta and changes may still come, but it would suck to be burnt out before the full vision of the game is realized because of RNG. I understand this as a risk to playing beta games (as I've played others), and a common thread in all mmo games it seems, but again, I hope for the best for Warframe as I am a big fan who is already feeling the grind--and not in a good way. Sorry this got a little off topic from the Alert system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angius Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 In my opinion RND system is just fine - especially with Nexus. I don't like farming/grinding, it's boring as hell, going through same mission n-times just to get something. RND system gives me possibility of getting pretty much everything I want without neccesity of playing 2/3/4/5 hours in a row. Nexus rings, I'm launching WF, then I'm doing alert, and I'm happy. It's about 15-40 minutes to get blueprint. It's better that way, as it already is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YourFriendlyNoggin Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 In a perfect world people reach that final item and unlock, they then keep playing just for the fun of it. Yes there will be some people who do, but the truth is that once you run out of rewards huge numbers of players get bored and move on. Events are a great way to keep them coming back but RNG is the easier option, it doesn't need extra work every week or any new visuals, it can just be set up and left to it's own accord most of the time even those who spend hours grinding still have to keep coming back if they want to finish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W4RM4CHIN3 Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhoenix Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 I've made the thread to suggest a possible change to the Alert system: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/47421-suggestion-change-alerts-to-tenno-research/ I'd welcome your thoughts on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kato-san Posted May 21, 2013 Author Share Posted May 21, 2013 (edited) In my opinion RND system is just fine - especially with Nexus. I don't like farming/grinding, it's boring as hell, going through same mission n-times just to get something. RND system gives me possibility of getting pretty much everything I want without neccesity of playing 2/3/4/5 hours in a row. Nexus rings, I'm launching WF, then I'm doing alert, and I'm happy. It's about 15-40 minutes to get blueprint. It's better that way, as it already is. What if we can have it both ways, keep the RNG alert system, AND have the option to buy a blueprint but the blueprint you buy in the market for Xamount of credits will be different then the one you get from alert, it will cost 50x more resources or something along thoes lines. Edited May 21, 2013 by MindlessWar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reithur Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 (edited) I work 8-10 hrs a day, 5-6 days a week, plus have a family life; alert farming for ? items is not really an option for me. I would love to see some of the rare items (reactors/catalysts, artifacts, etc) all available for creds, even if it's a high cost (150k or more). I'm more than happy to spend some money on Platinum, but I'd prefer to spend it on things you can't get with creds (Frame or Weapon slots, colour pallets, etc). Edited May 21, 2013 by Reithur Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archistopheles Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 There are mandatory frames and items to progress in high level defense missions (like frost for 1 example), but yes the game how it is now for missions other then defense ones there is no challenge and anything can be used sure. And I never said anything about getting them NOW. I talked how they could increase the resource cost as like you said resources are not that hard to get. How it is now I would have to wait 2 years in order to play a warfram like vuaban, and if that is the case and why play if they will continue in that direction with more content like that? Sure the game will reward you for playing it as you get resources ect from play the game. But how it is now you are getting rewarded for having an adroid app on your phone to know 24/7 when there is an alert.... so why that better? High level defense missions are currently only for bragging rights :) It makes it tough to have a discussion with you if you keep using hyperbole with Vauban. Nobody in the whole universe can argue with hyperbole unless they spend 50 years dedicating their lives to nothing but hyperbole. The app for the phone isn't necessary. Twitter on any smart phone does the exact same thing twitter.com/warframealerts. There are also tablets and laptops that can track alerts. Finally, we are not arguing about what is "better." I am simply presenting the other side of the argument so that we may refine our wants and needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notso Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 Read this and see if you agree :] https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/46894-the-current-drop-system-and-how-to-improve-it/?p=476416 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamLoveless Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 High level defense missions are currently only for bragging rights :) It makes it tough to have a discussion with you if you keep using hyperbole with Vauban. Nobody in the whole universe can argue with hyperbole unless they spend 50 years dedicating their lives to nothing but hyperbole. The app for the phone isn't necessary. Twitter on any smart phone does the exact same thing twitter.com/warframealerts. There are also tablets and laptops that can track alerts. Finally, we are not arguing about what is "better." I am simply presenting the other side of the argument so that we may refine our wants and needs. I think you're missing the point, the alert system does not encourage player to play the game. Rather it becomes a game of waiting and monitoring twitter throughout the day to see if something worth launching the game has popped up. It's not a system the player has control over, in any sense. Even if a BP was a very rare drop, the player could farm whatever drops the BP, not necessarily the best form of progression but far better than what we have with alerts. I know you've said something along the lines of, "Why do you need the item NOW?". As to this point, why should players be fenced off from content in such a manner? Simply put, player have no access to content bound by alerts through any means other than waiting, and possibly not even being able to access the content when the RNG made it available because they were unable to play the game(ie. school, work, sleep, internet issues, computer troubles, game client crashing, etc.). If a players is required to farm and/or craft an item the player still has to go through the motions of gathering the materials and slaying whatever drops the given item, and then waiting for the item to finish crafting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argoms Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 Agreed. Also-https://forums.warfr...needs-changing/https://forums.warfr...on-overhauling/https://forums.warfr...tenno-research/https://forums.warfr...ing-alerts-101/https://forums.warfr...ert#entry476412https://forums.warfr...e-alert-system/https://forums.warfr...l-alert-system/https://forums.warfr...tead-of-alerts/https://forums.warfr...ld-ground-here/https://forums.warfr...enemy-activity/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venarge Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 Agreed. Also- https://forums.warfr...needs-changing/ https://forums.warfr...on-overhauling/ https://forums.warfr...tenno-research/ https://forums.warfr...ing-alerts-101/ https://forums.warfr...ert#entry476412 https://forums.warfr...e-alert-system/ https://forums.warfr...l-alert-system/ https://forums.warfr...tead-of-alerts/ https://forums.warfr...ld-ground-here/ https://forums.warfr...enemy-activity/ Do we give away prices if we hit 20 threads about the same topic? Or do we just make a whole section for this kind of thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argoms Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 Do we give away prices if we hit 20 threads about the same topic? Or do we just make a whole section for this kind of thread? I'm actually adding to this list now every time there's an alert thread. Just to show how often it's brought up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown924 Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 I'm actually adding to this list now every time there's an alert thread. Just to show how often it's brought up. Can you add my thread to the list?:https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/45104-the-all-or-nothing-nature-of-alerts-is-a-problem-that-needs-to-be-addressed/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venarge Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 I'm actually adding to this list now every time there's an alert thread. Just to show how often it's brought up. This actually shows the inability of people using the search function... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argoms Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 This actually shows the inability of people using the search function... Etiquette on this forum appears to be new threads over necros. However, we do often end up with two of the same thread on the front page, so people are probably overdoing it. I'm used to bringing up points in existing threads, even if it slightly deviates from the original topic (to avoid cluttering the forum with threads). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unchained Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 I think you're missing the point, the alert system does not encourage player to play the game. Rather it becomes a game of waiting and monitoring twitter throughout the day to see if something worth launching the game has popped up. It's not a system the player has control over, in any sense. Even if a BP was a very rare drop, the player could farm whatever drops the BP, not necessarily the best form of progression but far better than what we have with alerts. +1. at the moment my warframe gameplay consist mainly of checking twitter from time to time. Usualy I'm finding out that i missed something cool and I'm discouraged even more. Oh, and I'm launching the game once a day to get my daily ammo box. I wish DE could at least make ? reward randimized separately for each player. This way people would play every ? reward mission hoping to get something good. This would also save everyone a lot of frustration from finding out you just missed that vauban bp alert... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argoms Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 (edited) Something to note: There has been suggestions of ways to improve the alerts (adding a token system, generating Alerts based on time logged in, etc), and these are being seen. Looks like this message is getting through to DE. Another few threads on the alerts system, in case anyone hasn't seen these. https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/48203-why-i-think-the-alert-system-needs-to-change/ https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/48254-vauban-drop-is-kind-of-unfair/?p=494511 https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/48150-omg/ https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/48036-oh-man-just-my-luck-xd/ https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/48235-and-2-of-vaubans-parts-in-alerts/ https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/45104-the-all-or-nothing-nature-of-alerts-is-a-problem-that-needs-to-be-addressed/ https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/45104-the-all-or-nothing-nature-of-alerts-is-a-problem-that-needs-to-be-addressed/page-3#entry451660 https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/44546-how-to-miss-3-catalysts-in-6-hours-edited-feedback/ https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/43415-orokin-fragment-idea-allow-incremental-upgrades-to-mod-capacity/ https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/46894-the-current-drop-system-and-how-to-improve-it/?p=476416 Edited May 21, 2013 by Argoms Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venarge Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 Etiquette on this forum appears to be new threads over necros. However, we do often end up with two of the same thread on the front page, so people are probably overdoing it. I'm used to bringing up points in existing threads, even if it slightly deviates from the original topic (to avoid cluttering the forum with threads). At least you try to find something positive in these copy threads :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A5PECT Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 (edited) My two cents: 1) Make alert times vary depending on the reward: e.g. Artifacts get the current 30 minutes to 1 hour. Helmets and weapons get 1-2 hours. Reactors and catalysts get 2-4 hours. Something like that. I'm flexible about the numbers. 2) Set minimum frequencies for items: e.g. Reactors and catalysts: Minimum of two per month. Warframe parts and weapons: Minimum of one per week. Artifacts: They're fine. They're already all over the place. Rewards in each category should alternate between 0:00 to 12:00 GMT and 12:00 to 24:00 GMT, so players on either hemisphere don't get short-changed. Again, flexible on the actual numbers, just wanted to get the concept out. I'd like to put more emphasis on this concept. The main drawback of the alert system in my opinion is the potential for "warframe/reactor/catalyst droughts." Something has to be done about preventing them as they can completely stifle a player's sense of progression. Edited May 22, 2013 by A5PECT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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