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How To: Bring Cooldowns Back


420degreequicksopeswag
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Before you say

-Cooldowns failed we are never going back

-Cooldowns limit the fast paced gameplay

 

Let me ask you:

Is the current energy system working well? (i would say no)

 

We need to realize that the energy system is horribly flawed. We are in a situation where the ability spammage has reached ridiculous amounts. The game is unbalanced. Energy pizza parties are commonplace in many missions. 4th abilities are being spammed back to back at least 8 times. We have a problem with energy, much like the situation where we had a problem with cooldowns. We need change. But for some reason when 1 thread pops up trying to even consider the idea of bringing cooldowns back, the paranoid community strikes it down instantly. The most common argument i see is: Cooldowns didn't work. Of course they didn't, but why?

 

Now, i wasn't around when cooldowns were a thing, but

 

This is why cooldowns failed(in my opinion): 

 

They were too long.

 

So here is my solution:Bring back cooldowns(and some other stuff)

Let's use oberon as an example(base):

 

(edit)

Smite: 1.5 second cooldown

Hallowed ground: 3 second cooldown

Renewal : 5 second cooldown

Slam dunkReckoning: 7 second cooldown

 

All on separate cooldown timers.

Of course, without actually testing these cooldowns, we won't know if they are in the right place. 

Here is part 2 of the cooldown equation:

 

Weapons have weights attached to them.(yes like ME3)

Weaker weapons are usually lighter, stronger weapons are usually heavier.

Few examples:

 

lato: Very light

Soma prime: very heavy

boltor prime: very heavy

Amprex: Very heavy

Scindo prime: very heavy

Obex: very light

All daggers: very light

 

So what does weight have to do with anything?

 

More weight=Longer cooldowns.

Less weight=shorter cooldowns.

 

So if you took nothing but a lato(this is an extreme example), expect to see huge cooldown reductions like

(edit)

Smite: 0.5 second cooldown

Hallowed ground: 1.5 second cooldown

Renewal : 2.5 second cooldown

Slam dunkReckoning: 3.5 second cooldown

 

Almost no cooldowns.

 

If you took say, a boltor prime, brakk, and tipedo(extreme example):

(edit)

Smite: 2.5 second cooldown

Hallowed ground:  4 second cooldown

Renewal : 7 second cooldown

Slam dunkReckoning: 10 second cooldown

 

Obviously not perfect but you get the idea.

 

So why should we do this?

-energy system is horribly flawed

-this would stop energy pizza parties

-This would have solved the gmag issue

-This will make abilities more reliable in more situations

-less reliance on energy orbs

-no more press # to win(hopefully?)

-Weapon balance: Stronger weapons vs more flexible usage of abilities. Boltor prime can keep its op domination, just that you will have to suffer ability wise.

 

Thoughts?

Opinons?

Flames?

(as for streamline, fleeting expertise, flow and primed flow... Uhh refund?)

Edit: efficiency mods could be used to reduce the longer cooldown effect of heavy weapons.

 

Edit : TLDR: None. Read everything

 

Edit: Judging by initial posts, i'd say the problem is: cooldowns are too long. Check the new timers.

 

Edit: this model would get rid of energy. Just letting you know. Thought you already did.

Edited by 420degreequicksopeswag
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inb4 devs have said no cooldowns

 

also 30 seconds in this game is a long time.

If a person wants to spend the time to make a build to spam 25 energy reckonings, why not let them?

Is spamming REALLY as bad as we all think it is?

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I'm not entirely opposed to this, but the main problem is it can't happen alone. 

 

If we kept the current enemy balance and ability power levels, taking a light/weak weapon to use lots of abilities would be a terrible choice compared to taking a powerful weapon and spamming as fast as you could anyways. That's doubly true on a damage frame.

 

For something like this to happen, abilities need to be effective as a toolset on their own. They're currently not.

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Cool downs shouldn't and aren't coming thankfully

Thankfully we have a horrible energy system instead.

 

inb4 devs have said no cooldowns

 

also 30 seconds in this game is a long time.

If a person wants to spend the time to make a build to spam 25 energy reckonings, why not let them?

Is spamming REALLY as bad as we all think it is?

They need to reconsider

Sigh. 30 second cooldown would be a punishment for taking the strongest weapons in the game. I'm no balance expert. Maybe it should be 20 at max. Maybe even 15. We won't know how long is too long until we try cooldowns. Take a lato and enjoy your 7.5 second cooldown. It might not even be 7.5 seconds If it were tweaked properly. Maybe even 3.

Efficiency mods could become weight reduction mods.

 

Yes the spamming problem is VERY REAL.

 

I'm not entirely opposed to this, but the main problem is it can't happen alone. 

 

If we kept the current enemy balance and ability power levels, taking a light/weak weapon to use lots of abilities would be a terrible choice compared to taking a powerful weapon and spamming as fast as you could anyways. That's doubly true on a damage frame.

 

For something like this to happen, abilities need to be effective as a toolset on their own. They're currently not.

It worked in ME3.

I don't see how the same principles couldn't apply to warframe, with a little tweaking here and there.

A little more kit synergy, ability reworks, and some other stuff along with the new cooldown system will make abilities effective on their own. Besides, you have to take at least 1 weapon.

 

The best way to bring cooldowns back is to give everthing a 0 second cooldown, in meaning: Giving nothing a cooldown

That's what we have right now. IT ISN'T WORKING.

 

 

So you want to limit what weapon i should use and how to play my frame?

Thanks but no.

Pick whatever weapon you want. But there ought to be something to give stupidly weak weapons like the lato a reason to be equipped, while giving god tier weapons some drawback without cutting back on their raw firepower. The boltor prime would still be the boltor prime.

 

Cooldowns are bad for the soul

The energy system we have now is bad for the soul

 

You anti-cooldown people need to realize that this game already has cooldown. Want an example? Radial Blind has a 5s reuse delay.

Why would you need to blind enemies who are already blind.

 

And the 5 sec cd is annoying. Thanks for making our point :D

We don't know how long the cooldown should be unless we try. 

It could be 1 second base.

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No. Enemies are too fast and strong in this game to allow such a thing. "Oh yea that skill that is supposed to be a part of defining your frame and allowing you to gain advantage over enemies? Yea no you can't use that. Have fun against all the content that can kill you in less than 3 seconds where you can't even do anything in those seconds!!" Yes things need to be addressed. But your idea is unoriginal, not thought out enough, and doesn't take anything above mid level into account. Sure Mesa players spam Peacemaker. But in doing so they forfeit a lot else. I'm not saying Peacemaker is balanced, but would adding a cooldown change that? No. It would just increase the time in between her spamming her ult lmao. You say: add a timer in each match where you can't play the game right. Sorry to say it, but your idea is honestly just bad. Really bad. The Devs have literally stated on Devstream from a few weeks ago, "I don't think fixing the game is adding cooldowns to everything, it just delays the problem, doesn't fix it". So, in essence, the community, the devs, and pretty much everyone except maybe you hate the idea of adding all these cooldowns. It works in some games. Warframe is not one of those games. That is all. I advise you drop it now and turn back before you're too disappointed. 

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No. Enemies are too fast and strong in this game to allow such a thing. "Oh yea that skill that is supposed to be a part of defining your frame and allowing you to gain advantage over enemies? Yea no you can't use that. Have fun against all the content that can kill you in less than 3 seconds where you can't even do anything in those seconds!!" Yes things need to be addressed. But your idea is unoriginal, not thought out enough, and doesn't take anything above mid level into account. Sure Mesa players spam Peacemaker. But in doing so they forfeit a lot else. I'm not saying Peacemaker is balanced, but would adding a cooldown change that? No. It would just increase the time in between her spamming her ult lmao. You say: add a timer in each match where you can't play the game right. Sorry to say it, but your idea is honestly just bad. Really bad. The Devs have literally stated on Devstream from a few weeks ago, "I don't think fixing the game is adding cooldowns to everything, it just delays the problem, doesn't fix it". So, in essence, the community, the devs, and pretty much everyone except maybe you hate the idea of adding all these cooldowns. It works in some games. Warframe is not one of those games. That is all. I advise you drop it now and turn back before you're too disappointed. 

"yea no you can't use that(4th ability)"

 

YES you can, just not 9001 times back to back with 0.00001 seconds in between with an energy pizza party.

 

Many enemies can already kill us in less than 3 seconds. For example:

-ballista: instant kill

-commander teleport: death sentence

-Toxic ancient: shield ignoring instant kill

etc. etc.

 

Above mid tier, energy sources boil down to trinity, energy pizzas, killing ridiculous amounts of enemies and desecrating them, and what used to be gmag.Cooldowns will get rid of all of this. Whether you are on mercury or t4 survival, your cooldowns will always be the same. Reliability.

 

What is your definition of playing the game right? Pressing 4 9001 times back to back with .0001 seconds in between?

 

MikeTheAshmigo, on 14 Jul 2015 - 9:51 PM, said:snapback.png

Why are people still insisting for cool downs after Digital Extreme, and Scott himself specifically said in DevStream #55 that there will be 

NO COOLDOWNS?

"cause i gotta have faith"

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I personally want cooldowns but since DE said no, I say:

Remove Eorbs (this removes RnG of Energy and will slow down power use without cooldowns.)

Give everyone a builtin Energy Siphon

4 can still stack but not more.

DE removed Eorbs from crates in Defense, (they even removed the crates lol) awhile back.

Edited by (XB1)LordPuck
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What about a Fatigue system instead of cooldowns or the straight up Energy system?

 

For example, maybe after your 10th Miasma in 15 seconds (which that scenario already screams #4 to win) your Miasma no longer costs 25 energy but increases to like 30. And after some rest time, i.e. not using Miasma as rapidly, it slowly or rapidly cools back to 25 energy whether you've lessened your Miasma spam or completely halted it.

 

I'm just making up numbers but I'm essentially saying, make abilities start to cost more energy the more they're spammed?

 

It makes sense, I'd get tired if I was an Ash doing Bladestorms 10 times in a row, that 11th Bladestorm would require a little more effort and endurance to pull off than the 1st one. That 'effort' and 'endurance' can manifest as requiring more energy.

 

This system intuitively counters turtle spam 4 win strategies because those just look ridiculous... Warframe gives us parkouring space ninjas, and you just stand stationary waving your hands ad nauseum like an awkward dancer at a party?

Edited by Tyrannawn
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We can add cooldowns when we no longer have to tackle 50 Bullet sponge 1 shotting enemies at once.

sound fair?

I believe that is a symptom of the mod system and horrendous enemy scaling. Which needs its own thread.

150 views and 18 replies so far and not a single upvote for OP's idea. And every single non op reply has been against OP's cool down idea, I think that says something about what the majority want.

You all are just afraid. Just because cooldowns failed once everyone is avoiding cooldowns like the black plague.

What if warframe had this energy system at the start?

Would you be opposed to cooldowns?

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I would wholeheartedly welcome COOLDOWNS in a heart beat.  When so called Ultimates are allowed to be spammed back to back they are no longer Ultimates.  They become the de facto way to play the game because they are utterly overpowered.

 

[DE] has allowed their 3rd person action shooter with Space Ninjas to devolve into a 1 button casino style mini-game where you just spam a button and 5 rounds later see what you get.

 

Send [DE] Scott back to Game Design school and re-take the course on game balance and why allowing your players to chain their most powerful abilities leads to the most boring and repetitive gameplay imaginable.

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