owendawgx Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Just like the title says. A crit with a 1.5 times boost is honestly really negligible and for weapons that already have a low crit chance, it doesn't really matter what the crit damage is because you won't be modding for it! Just my opinion, such a low crit multiplier shouldn't really be what holds weapons back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CY13ERPUNK Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 eh... id rather the weapons with ZERO crit chance/dmg get at least a 5% chance and 1.5x multiplier instead especially seeing as how things like the Seer and the Miter are already incredibly subpar niche weapons to begin with, no clue why they are treated so horribly by DE (nevermind how powercreep continues to make older weapons worse in comparision, srsly a growing problem with weapon diversity ingame) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4G3NT_0R4NG3 Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 This would be a massive buff to both the Vaykor Marelok and Rakta Ballistica, because both of them would become viable for crit builds. It will never be a good idea to buff top tier weapons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)MrNishi Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 I am all for a minimum crit multiplier being 2.0x....also hoping other weapons that are already higher get a .5x boost as well. In regards to Seer/Miter/Panthers....I believe they have an undisclosed Crit damage multiplier as they can benefit from crit damage mods. Hollow Point lowering base damage but boosting Crit damage....doesn't make sense on Seer if crit damage multiplier is Zero but rather an undisclosed value. https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/482818-can-we-do-something-for-all-the-bad-weps-out-there/?p=5400596 (Post has Miter/Seer/Panthera links with crit tests...pre-arcane enhancements) Mutalist Quanta is the weapon with 1.5x base crit multiplier that I run crit damage mods on just because of the Crit boosting orbs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owendawgx Posted July 16, 2015 Author Share Posted July 16, 2015 Every weapon needs to have at least a worthwhile payoff for a crit. That is my view. As for making great weapons more powerful . . . that isn't really a huge drawback when considering how many other weapons would become more viable. I see it as a change which would need some post-balancing, but would be an overall positive occurrence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4G3NT_0R4NG3 Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Every weapon needs to have at least a worthwhile payoff for a crit. That is my view. If every weapon was crit viable, say goodbye to variety. Can you imagine how much variety between weapons this game would lose if every single weapon was crit viable? Crit mods would also be added to the list of must-have mods for every weapon in the game, and the Berserker mod would be a must-have for melee weapons as well. Still, I understand why you want this. You want the freedom to use crit mods on any weapon you want. However, for this to be a possibility, very deep changes to some of Warframe's core mechanics and metagames would have to be made. If these changes could be made, though, the game would change for the better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owendawgx Posted July 16, 2015 Author Share Posted July 16, 2015 If every weapon was crit viable, say goodbye to variety. Can you imagine how much variety between weapons this game would lose if every single weapon was crit viable? Crit mods would also be added to the list of must-have mods for every weapon in the game, and the Berserker mod would be a must-have for melee weapons as well. Still, I understand why you want this. You want the freedom to use crit mods on any weapon you want. However, for this to be a possibility, very deep changes to some of Warframe's core mechanics and metagames would have to be made. If these changes could be made, though, the game would change for the better. My view is that not every weapon would be crit viable, weapons with the 5% (or even 2.5% for the Tiberon) would not become crit viable, it would just mean that those few shots that DID crit it would see more payoff. I can see where you're coming from though and would definitely need some counterbalancing as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrazilianJoe Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 No. Not every weapon need to be crit viable, we'd lose variety and build options with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)MrNishi Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 My view is that not every weapon would be crit viable, weapons with the 5% (or even 2.5% for the Tiberon) would not become crit viable, it would just mean that those few shots that DID crit it would see more payoff. I can see where you're coming from though and would definitely need some counterbalancing as well. But Arcane Avenger makes every melee weapon Berseker viable .... a Flat 30% additive crit chance raises even the 2.5% Tiberon to 32.5% and the Nukor with 1%Crit-chance and base 4.0x crit multiplier can have 31%crit chance with Arcane Avenegr....no need for Pistol Gambit taking up a slot, or Point Strike, nor True Steel, nor Blunderbuss. Arcane Avenger on Kohm or Drakgoon is very noticiable crit chance boost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insizer Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 No, that reduces variety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owendawgx Posted July 16, 2015 Author Share Posted July 16, 2015 Honestly I don't think it would change much. Just set a different standard. Things may have to be tweaked, yes, but most any other game that implements a crit function gives it double damage. Arguing that arcane avenger makes everything crit viable with this, would suggest a need to change arcane avenger. A crit should give a massive payoff when it occurs, and the current crit weapons would still be better over the others, due to their higher crit chances. Now melee is imo a bit different, considering how variable the crit stats and weapon play itself falls into context, and berserker weapons have almost always shined over non-berserker. Making more weapons berserker viable would INCREASE weapon choice diversity, if not mod slot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealPandemonium Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Just like the title says. A crit with a 1.5 times boost is honestly really negligible and for weapons that already have a low crit chance, it doesn't really matter what the crit damage is because you won't be modding for it! Just my opinion, such a low crit multiplier shouldn't really be what holds weapons back. Crits are mostly for the headshot bonus. The actual crit multiplier is not as important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CY13ERPUNK Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 If every weapon was crit viable, say goodbye to variety. Can you imagine how much variety between weapons this game would lose if every single weapon was crit viable? Crit mods would also be added to the list of must-have mods for every weapon in the game, and the Berserker mod would be a must-have for melee weapons as well. Still, I understand why you want this. You want the freedom to use crit mods on any weapon you want. However, for this to be a possibility, very deep changes to some of Warframe's core mechanics and metagames would have to be made. If these changes could be made, though, the game would change for the better. say goodbye to what variety exactly? the variety of either max base dmg plus elementals or max base dmg plus crits plus elementals? that 'variety'? two complete non-choice choices? oh ya, thank the gods above that we've got a WHOLE WHOPING TWO different builds for two different weapon stats basically if a gun can be built to have a decent crit rate, then you build it for crit dmg and chance, and if it doesnt then you just cram in more elemental dmg instead, thusly 1 build for 1 weapon type, and 1 build for another weapon type, and THATS IT [im not going to count on adding things like ammo drum or reload spd, sure ya, there's 'mods' ingame, go nutz with that variety...] THERE IS NO WEAPON BUILD VARIETY IN WARFRAME unless you want to count those stupid : "with the existing mods there a 17 billion different loadout combinations possible" 'but really only 1 or 2 are functionally any good =/, shhh plz dont tell anyone' bottom line, the mod system for weapons is incredibly shallow and has been this way for years now, DE knows it but is unwilling to do the work to change it, or if they have actually made any headway, they've stayed quiet on it so far, they have acknowledged that they're aware of it, just no info has been given on how they plan to fix/address it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)MrNishi Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 Some are max status then max damage. Melee has a little bit more diversity than guns....but seems to be limited to specific Warframes with melee friendly builds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ve1indian Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 (edited) I just wish they abolished crits and added the effective damage bonus to normal damage for the sake of consistency, and converted the crit mods into weakpoint damage/status multipliers (like +150% status on weakpoint and +110% weakpoint damage) for variety. Since all crits really do is add damage in an inconsistent way, and if a weapon gets above 100% crit dance it might as well just deal more base damage to where the red crit's damage is the new standard crit's damage. Edited July 20, 2015 by Vougue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)MrNishi Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 I just wish they abolished crits and added the effective damage bonus to normal damage for the sake of consistency, and converted the crit mods into weakpoint damage/status multipliers (like +150% status on weakpoint and +110% weakpoint damage) for variety. Since all crits really do is add damage in an inconsistent way, and if a weapon gets above 100% crit dance it might as well just deal more base damage to where the red crit's damage is the new standard crit's damage. How would that work with Melee crit mods if you can only enhance damage on an enemy weak point? Weak points would work for guns....although crit explosive weapons like Tonkor may lose their OP damage. -But that would further diminish melee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sakatchi Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 When someone says "no because of weapon variety". He really means "I don't like change, and every thing needs to be the same/like it once was." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owendawgx Posted July 25, 2015 Author Share Posted July 25, 2015 It just doesnt make sense for some weapons to do less than 2X crit damage. They wont become crit viable because they still have crit chance of 5% or even 2.5% in some cases. It just means there need to be mor payoff, so that every weapon has at least a notable damage increase in that one in 100 shots they fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepsi-tan Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 Maybe every weapon doesn't need to be a crit weapon though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incunabulum Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 I'd like to see (crit chance x crit damage) be the same for all weapons. The higher your crit chance, the lower the crit damage and vice versa. 1% crit chance = 100x crit damage. 50% crit chance = 2x crit damage. To be honest, I'd like to see each range of weapon (primary/secondary/melee) be geared to do roughly the same sustained DPS, with adjustments for range and any utility function they have. ie, a long-range rifle either fires slower or does less damage per shot than a short range one. A weapon that does amazing burst DPS might have a long reload time or be really short range. There are too many weapons that are simply outclassed right from the get go by others of the same type so once built and mastered they're lockered and forgotten about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)MrNishi Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 It just doesnt make sense for some weapons to do less than 2X crit damage. They wont become crit viable because they still have crit chance of 5% or even 2.5% in some cases. It just means there need to be mor payoff, so that every weapon has at least a notable damage increase in that one in 100 shots they fire.With Mutalist Quanta as the exception...2.5% base crit chance 1.5x base crit multiplier Near 100% crit chance through Orbs with same 2.5% cit chance Vital sense and Hammershot showing a 4.2x crit multiplier....but orb treats as 5.25x crit multipier 478 non-crit boosted to 2510, after comparing 4x90% Elemental vs 3x90%Elemental+Hammershot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owendawgx Posted July 25, 2015 Author Share Posted July 25, 2015 Maybe every weapon doesn't need to be a crit weapon though? For the last time, not every weapon would be a crit weapon. If you seriously think changing the Tiberon's Crit Multiplier to 2X is going to now make its 2.5% crit chance viable, idk what you're smoking, but it must be some pretty powerful stuff. Seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mxysptlik Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 Just like the title says. A crit with a 1.5 times boost is honestly really negligible and for weapons that already have a low crit chance, it doesn't really matter what the crit damage is because you won't be modding for it! Just my opinion, such a low crit multiplier shouldn't really be what holds weapons back. Agreed. Every crit should be at LEAST 2x, anything less is just laughable. Crits should do damage that crits should do, and 1.5x damage is not that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)NetworkTech4 Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 If every weapon was crit viable, say goodbye to variety. Can you imagine how much variety between weapons this game would lose if every single weapon was crit viable? Crit mods would also be added to the list of must-have mods for every weapon in the game, and the Berserker mod would be a must-have for melee weapons as well. Still, I understand why you want this. You want the freedom to use crit mods on any weapon you want. However, for this to be a possibility, very deep changes to some of Warframe's core mechanics and metagames would have to be made. If these changes could be made, though, the game would change for the better. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)MrNishi Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 (edited) For the last time, not every weapon would be a crit weapon. If you seriously think changing the Tiberon's Crit Multiplier to 2X is going to now make its 2.5% crit chance viable, idk what you're smoking, but it must be some pretty powerful stuff. Seriously.You do mean 32.5% crit chance....Or are you not counting Arcane Avenger (No point strike or crit delay needed) Edited July 25, 2015 by (PS4)MrNishi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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