(Vaykor) Marelok Vs. Lex (Prime) Vs. (Ak)Vasto (Prime)

[BrazilianJoe]

So, we have these weapons which are all secondary, all semi-auto. 

 

I think that some stat rework is in order for them. 

 

I usually avoid proposing nerfs, most of the time they are the wrong call. But whenever a gun has only strong points and no weaknesses, making it a slam dunk vs. any other, a nerf may be the better call. 

 

Vasto family:

 

The canonical 6-bullet revolver. Intended to be a fast firing, low-recoil gun for taking potshots. 

In terms of gameplay dynamics, since this gun is not a candidate to be a one-hit killer, having a gun apt to make status builds would be a good call. 

In practice though, it has little more than fast firing rate and a very speedy reload time going for it. 

 

Lex Family: 

 

Initially thought as a 'pocket sniper' as stated by DE. The idea would be to be a gun with god stopping power. it does more damage than the vasto, but has a low fire rate and huge recoil. load times are long too. 

To be a one-hit killer, it would have been a good call to make this gun a consistent critter or to just have high base damage. 

 

Marelok family: 

 

Marelok is intended to be a Grinlok with a sawed-off barrel. It does insane amounts of damage, has a fire rate AND damage twice as good as the lex, and faster reload time. It also has mid-to-good cirt chance (15%) and very good status chance (30%). Vaykor Marelok improves both these stats by an additional 5% and a 10 round magazine.

 

Marelok was introduced much later than the other two, and the power creep shows. Vasto and Lex are Tenno weapons though, and both have Prime versions. It basically has no disadvantages when compared to the others. Even if it has a little less accuracy, the difference is too small to make a difference, especially given the fast-paced, close quarters nature of the game.

 

 

The Primes of Vasto and Lex do little to compensate the original guns deficiencies, and can't get in arm's reach of Marelok. 

 

How I think the weapons should differentiate from each other

 

The fast-paced shooting of Vasto is its trademark. It would do very well to have this family do very well to dump a lot of stat procs on enemies. 

 

Its 15% chance is not forgettable, but if you look at Marelok - 30% chance, really? I would switch those stats around, making Vasto a status hose with 30% chance for (Ak)Vasto, and 40% or even 50% for the Prime.

 

The Lex is a slower, heavy hitter gun. Marelok is already the undisputed raw-damage dealer. I would work on this by giving the Lex a huge boost to crit chances and multiplier. 40% crit chance and 2.5x multiplier for the Lex, and 50% crit chance/2.5x multiplier for the lex prime. 

 

Marelok - I would propose reducing its accuracy further so it becomes less effective at long range, right now you can body-shot snipe with it. And also reduce status chance to 15%. If devs don't want to play with its stats though, vasto should have 10-20% status chance above Marelok to have a leg over it. 

 

This gives each gun family a distinctive flavor and makes them more competitive against each other. 

[Kthal]

I am saddened by the Vasto Prime's failure as a status weapon, and a base of 30% or 40% would really make it shine...

 

 

As for the Lex family, I would argue that they should have 35%+ critical chance, but a low critical multiplier of 1.5x. This would make them consistently rewarding when going for headshots, and not so great on bodyshotting.

 

 

The fact that the Marelok has double the damage and double the fire rate over the Lex Prime is unacceptable, although I would not cry for a Marelok nerf, aside from a minor reduction to status and critical chances, as well as maybe a further reduction to accuracy.

[XxTacTicBeastxX]

no.

[XxTacTicBeastxX]

So, we have these weapons which are all secondary, all semi-auto. 

 

I think that some stat rework is in order for them. 

 

I usually avoid proposing nerfs, most of the time they are the wrong call. But whenever a gun has only strong points and no weaknesses, making it a slam dunk vs. any other, a nerf may be the better call. 

 

Vasto family:

 

The canonical 6-bullet revolver. Intended to be a fast firing, low-recoil gun for taking potshots. 

In terms of gameplay dynamics, since this gun is not a candidate to be a one-hit killer, having a gun apt to make status builds would be a good call. 

In practice though, it has little more than fast firing rate and a very speedy reload time going for it. 

 

Lex Family: 

 

Initially thought as a 'pocket sniper' as stated by DE. The idea would be to be a gun with god stopping power. it does more damage than the vasto, but has a low fire rate and huge recoil. load times are long too. 

To be a one-hit killer, it would have been a good call to make this gun a consistent critter or to just have high base damage. 

 

Marelok family: 

 

Marelok is intended to be a Grinlok with a sawed-off barrel. It does insane amounts of damage, has a fire rate AND damage twice as good as the lex, and faster reload time. It also has mid-to-good cirt chance (15%) and very good status chance (30%). Vaykor Marelok improves both these stats by an additional 5% and a 10 round magazine.

 

Marelok was introduced much later than the other two, and the power creep shows. Vasto and Lex are Tenno weapons though, and both have Prime versions. It basically has no disadvantages when compared to the others. Even if it has a little less accuracy, the difference is too small to make a difference, especially given the fast-paced, close quarters nature of the game.

 

 

The Primes of Vasto and Lex do little to compensate the original guns deficiencies, and can't get in arm's reach of Marelok. 

 

How I think the weapons should differentiate from each other

 

The fast-paced shooting of Vasto is its trademark. It would do very well to have this family do very well to dump a lot of stat procs on enemies. 

 

Its 15% chance is not forgettable, but if you look at Marelok - 30% chance, really? I would switch those stats around, making Vasto a status hose with 30% chance for (Ak)Vasto, and 40% or even 50% for the Prime.

 

The Lex is a slower, heavy hitter gun. Marelok is already the undisputed raw-damage dealer. I would work on this by giving the Lex a huge boost to crit chances and multiplier. 40% crit chance and 2.5x multiplier for the Lex, and 50% crit chance/2.5x multiplier for the lex prime. 

 

Marelok - I would propose reducing its accuracy further so it becomes less effective at long range, right now you can body-shot snipe with it. And also reduce status chance to 15%. If devs don't want to play with its stats though, vasto should have 10-20% status chance above Marelok to have a leg over it. 

 

This gives each gun family a distinctive flavor and makes them more competitive against each other. 

Marelok does not deserve a nerf, it's perfect the way it is, stop wanting changes to weapons and wanting to get the ones people dont like nerfed and the ones they do like and use get a buff. no just no. They are all fine the way they are. 

[Kthal]

Marelok does not deserve a nerf, it's perfect the way it is, stop wanting changes to weapons and wanting to get the ones people dont like nerfed and the ones they do like and use get a buff. no just no. They are all fine the way they are. 

 

The point is that there is a lack of freedom of choice. There should be several distinct viable options for every 'power level' of weapon, and the Marelok is significantly better than the next best signature crit and status secondary weapons.

 

The Marelok having no downsides is a bit ridiculous, especially compared to the tradeoffs other weapons have to balance extreme status or damage.

[PhoenixElite]

I always wished the lex was a crit pistol. The only crit pistols we have are the Aksomati, and Wraith Twin Vipers, which are both full-auto pistols. We need a semi-auto crit pistol. I still don't know what DE was thinking when they added the Vaykor version of the marelok, arguably one of THE best secondaries, even out-performing its supposed 'big brother' the grinlok, as well as many other primary weapons.

To this day, I still question why we have primaries and secondaries, seeing as secondaries are more often than not, better than primaries. We're bad*** space ninjas, let us use 2 of any ranged weapon! Would also promote some variation, as well as give us more of a "I'm a freakin' bad***!" feeling.

 

Marelok does not deserve a nerf, it's perfect the way it is, stop wanting changes to weapons and wanting to get the ones people dont like nerfed and the ones they do like and use get a buff. no just no. They are all fine the way they are. 

Marelok is a perfect example of power creep, which the Devs have specifically stated that they are trying to avoid. Your argument is not actually an argument, just you essentially saying "Shut up, you're not allowed to have an opinion, my opinion is the only one that matters!", as well as insinuating that no one likes the vasto or lex.

PS: I don't really care if the marelok gets a nerf or not, I just want other secondaries to be on par, or have some sort of niche over the marelok.

Edited July 16, 2015 by PhoenixElite

[BrazilianJoe]

I consider in OP the possibility of not touching the Marelok,, making it the 'baseline-for-endgame-jack-of-all-trades' secondary semi-auto. 

 

The other weapons should be buffed accordingly to excel on at least one stat over the Marelok though. 

[Kthal]

We need a semi-auto crit pistol.

 

It might be worth taking a look at the (Ak)Magnus.

[PhoenixElite]

It might be worth taking a look at the (Ak)Magnus.

B-but... that 3 second reload q.q

[BrazilianJoe]

It might be worth taking a look at the (Ak)Magnus.

 

 

But the AkMagnus fills the role of a lower damage, fast shooter. It is the crit version of the Vasto, if you will. And can be built for either, its status is 25% base.

 

Besides, if you look at AkMagnus base damage vs. Marelok Base Damage, you 'd need a large multiplier to even touch the Marelok's base damage - and marelok still has a base 15% chance of doing 50% more damage, with half the reload time of AkMagnus. 

Edited July 16, 2015 by -TP-BrazilianJoe

[Ryme]

I have never used Vastos, so I won't comment on what the weapon needs.

 

I agree that Lex needs a buff of some kind, as Marelock currently overshadows it in every regard.

 

Marelok has always puzzled me because if it is a "sawed-off" version of Grinlok, why does it do more damage per shot?

I feel it's fine mechanically, as I do find I have to fire more shots at range, to compensate for the loss of accuracy. It is just unfortunate that the weapon is in direct competition with the Lex, as the two weapons are designed to fill a similar roll. The Grinlok is a marksman rifle, making Marelok also a marksman pistol. I like the idea of making Lex a crit based marksman pistol, as that would let the two weapons function as side-grades to each other, like the Boltor and Soma weapons.

Edited July 16, 2015 by Ryme

[BrazilianJoe]

Boltor and Soma may or may not be considered strict sidegrades, but if you are into full-auto primaries, there's Prisma Grakata too, making it a love triangle. 

 

 

But yeah, each weapon should have one stat to shine over the other(s), not all of them. That's why I am highlighting two Primes which can't outshine one non-Prime weapon - even the not-syndicate version. 

Edited July 16, 2015 by -TP-BrazilianJoe

[Ada_Wong_SG]

Kind of my personal processing of the classification of these 3 weapons
 

Vasto ".38 special" 

Lex  ".45 ACP"

Marelok ".45-70" 

 

 

Though for a revolver, i initially thought vasto would be like this...

 

[----Fenrir----]

It not the fault of the Marelok that Lex and Vasto (prime and none prime versions) are crappy guns. Even the Akmagnus you can buy on the market beats those 2 by a HUGE margin.

[(PSN)Cycl0ne200713]

people are actually asking to have the marelok nerfed? amazing. I guess everything else has already been asked to be nerf, so why not throw this in there. Leave it alone. Who gets mad because a gun is too accurate?

[BrazilianJoe]

people are actually asking to have the marelok nerfed? amazing. I guess everything else has already been asked to be nerf, so why not throw this in there. Leave it alone. Who gets mad because a gun is too accurate?

 

It has been stated that the other guns must have some advantage over the Marelok. Balancing the 3 gun families may or may not involve nerfing the Marelok. The post is much more about buffing the other families than maybe nerfing the Marelok. If Marelok is to stay as is, the buff needs to be more significant. 

 

If you read the entire OP you would have figured it out. 

[Redhux]

I agree for the Vasto P and Lex P, and in addition i would give them higher critical chance % and multiplier.

 

And please, reduce the reload time of the Lex to 1.5 would be priceless.

 

 

For the Mareloks i'm opposed to any change/ nerf. They're fine as they are right now.

[shaun10656]

vasto with status no! its supposed to be about crit just add more crit to a vasto and aim for the head

[Gr33hn]

Very good ideas OP, I agree with all of them. Unfortunately I could only upvote your post once.

[BrazilianJoe]

vasto with status no! its supposed to be about crit just add more crit to a vasto and aim for the head

 

Magnus is the fast-firing critter. AkMagnus especially. That would make both overlap in the same specialization.

[(PSN)DBR87]

Yeah, look. I LOVE the AkMagnus. I love it is a crtical and status beast. I'd rather not have anything impose on that. Now I really don't know what kind of buff to AkVatso or Vatso Prime would prevent this. I can get behind you suggestion to buff Vatso Prime while keeping AkVatso as a second rate AkMagnus.

 

I would rather not nerf V Marelock but definetly can agree to buff Lex Prime for higher base damage and crit multiplier and Vatso Prime for higher base damage and Status.

 

Speaking of Prime Secondaries that are too weak to deserve the Prime status...Sicarus Prime needs a buff. Such a beautiful gun yet so. . . lacking.

[007-Creed]

I agree with OP and have already mentioned before, Lex Prime and Marelok need to be balanced. Lex as a sniping pistol with long reload and slow fire rate should have more damage to make up for it. As it stands marelok beats all pistols with no disadvantages.

I dont think nerfing vaykor will be best thing to do, but buffing the others instead

[(PSN)Snowbluff]

Marelok does not deserve a nerf, it's perfect the way it is, stop wanting changes to weapons and wanting to get the ones people dont like nerfed and the ones they do like and use get a buff. no just no. They are all fine the way they are. 

This.

 

Lex Prime should probably get an Ak version and a crit buff, IMO, but Vasto Prime is just such a dumb weapon. I say we nerf Vasto Prime to prove a point.

[RafaelFuchs]

i agree those weapons need a buff, but i don't think the marlock needs a nerf. 

[Dell_the_Engie]

As someone who has used all of those weapons, I can personally attest to the superiority of the Marelok and Vaykor Marelok, even without significant modding, Catalyst, or Forma.  I think something does need to be done about it, and it should be a combination of increasing the baseline viability of the other weapons, perhaps utilizing more of the Mastery Rank requirements (Vasto, Magnus, and Lex, as well as their akimbo versions, have no Mastery Rank requirements, and the Marelok requires Mastery Rank 5), and, potentially consider giving the Marelok a reasonable tradeoff for its sheer stopping power.  As it stands, the Marelok and Vaykor Marelok are objectively better weapons than the Grinlok primary weapon, so the Grinlok seriously needs a look, and the Mareloks may deserve one as well.

Edited July 29, 2015 by Dell_the_Engie