Conspiracy Theory: No One Who Works At De Actually Plays Warframe

[4G3NT_0R4NG3]

To me, evidence seems to indicate that no one at DE actually plays this game. Actions that the developers have taken, or lack thereof, seem to indicate that DE's attention doesn't focus on making changes that the majority of the community wants or fixing core problems with the game.

 

DISCLAIMER, for all of you who need one:

Obviously Warframe's developers actually play the game. This is only a way for me to express my frustrations regarding DE's behavior when it comes to how they handle the game. This may come across as a complaint thread and/or developer bashing, but how am I supposed to critique the devs' behavior if my attempts to do so are immediately written off as just salting? Part of this is me venting my frustrations, part of this is me wanting to critique the devs' handling of the game, and part of this is me bringing this issue out into the open to be discussed, although I somehow doubt that any civil discussion will happen.

 

As much as I hope that this won't get locked for being a complaint topic and I won't get a warning point for developer bashing, I see both as a possibility, and I'm willing to accept that.

 

Nearly any warframe player can tell you the following things:

1. The Supra needs a buff

2. Sniper rifles need a buff

3. Nullifiers and Bombards are not fun to fight

4. Warframe's endgame content sucks

5. RNG grinding is terrible

6. We would rather be actually playing the game than endlessly going to farming spots

 

If any random player was allowed to design their own update, how many of these things would they fix?

 

However, there have been a few things that DE has picked up on, but only after the community has basically burned the forums down about them. You wouldn't actually have to play the game to know these things, just be on the forums at the right time. Ember and Rhino have both received buffs, but the thing is, Ember and Rhino's buffs are even more evidence that DE lacks knowledge about the game.

 

Once again, nearly any player can tell you why Rhino needs a buff: it's because Iron Skin is supposed to make him a tank, but is too weak to actually make him a tank. What Ember needs is a bit more controversial, but most people think that her lack of survivability and damage falloff in late game are her largest downfalls. Both Rhino and Ember got buffs, but Rhino's buff didn't change Iron Skin at all, and Ember's buffs did quite little for her survivability or damage falling off. It seems as if DE understands that these frames need buffs because of the constant forum topics about it, but doesn't understand why the frames have problems, almost as if no one who works there plays the game.

 

Warframe also has a number of more core problems that DE has made no move to change. These are the very biggest issues that harm Warframe the most out of all the problems it has, and nearly nothing has been done to remedy them.

 

Here are some core problems:

1. Star chart missions provide hardly any challenge at all

2. High level enemy scaling mechanics suck

3. Enemy armor is far more powerful than enemy shields

4. The energy system is broken

5. Power creep is power creeping

6. The fastest way to get XP is to stand in one spot and do nothing but hold a button down

 

You would have to not actually play the game to not have at least heard of these problems. Not only has DE not made any effort to fix these core problems, they've also provided us with tools that have been designed around the core problems. Just look at how many augments allow us to remove armor? Wouldn't a simpler solution to the problem be to just not have armor removal be so essential? They created the raids trials in an attempt to actually give the game decent endgame content, but failed to understand that the reason endgame content sucks is because enemy armor and enemy scaling mechanics are broken. Why aren't the end of the star chart and non-endless T4s our endgame content? Why do we have to wade through an hour of defense or survival to get a challenge?

 

I can understand if DE is busy and can't get around to doing everything we want, but I can't understand that DE is too busy to fix the game's core problems, the very largest issues that are making the whole game rot away from the inside. Why don't core problems take top priority? How has DE done nothing to even acknowledge that these problems exist?

[Catalyst1945]

+1

[UndeadGhostWarrior]

well the guy in charge of drop tables doesnt. the fact that he used cheats in a live stream goes to show he shouldnt be in charge of prime drop tables as he has never grinded before . probably. IMO

[chaotea]

Just a few pointers.

 

Nearly any warframe player can tell you the following things:

1. The Supra needs a buff

The Supra doesnt need a buff, its just not as good as some weapons. Its not a high-tier weapon.

 

2. Sniper rifles need a buff

DE has confirmed they are looking into this, shotguns were first however.

 

3. Nullifiers and Bombards are not fun to fight

A matter of oppinion. I love Nullifiers in game as they force me to move outside my comfort camping zones to prioritize destroying them. I never have issues with bombards so i dont see the issue people talk about.

 

4. Warframe's endgame content sucks

Yes, but the game isnt finished yet. Remember that most other games 'endgame content' is the end of the game, as in stop playing.

 

5. RNG grinding is terrible

Roll a dice, how many 6's do you get? The loot system is RNG. If you dont like that, play a different game. This is a core mechanic and wont be changed.

 

6. We would rather be actually playing the game than endlessly going to farming spots.

This is a choice you make. I dont generally farm unless thats what i feel like doing.

 

Also, your topic is childish and demeaning. The game needs fixing, however it is constantly getting fixed.

 

----------------------

 

Here are some core problems:

1. Star chart missions provide hardly any challenge at all

High end missions are challenging. Try a hard spy mission with no powers.

 

2. High level enemy scaling mechanics suck

They get harder making pure damage less important and power / weapon combos better.

 

3. Enemy armor is far more powerful than enemy shields

Because even units with shields have armor. And only 1 race has shields.

 

4. The energy system is broken

Its actually fine and good. Its down to your own management.

 

5. Power creep is power creeping

Because people keep demanding stupid things like 'buff the supra'

 

6. The fastest way to get XP is to stand in one spot and do nothing but hold a button down

Except when nulifiers appear, which force you to move. Also, DE said they are looking to change this in the future.

Edited July 21, 2015 by chaotea

[Helch0rn]

1. The Supra needs a buff

2. Sniper rifles need a buff

3. Nullifiers and Bombards are not fun to fight

4. Warframe's endgame content sucks

5. RNG grinding is terrible

6. We would rather be actually playing the game than endlessly going to farming spots

1. They are working on it. They said  they're gonna buff it a few Devstreams ago Edit: or was it Dera? I can't remember

2. They are working on it

3. That's your opinion. I like to fight them

4. Again. That's your opinion.

5. Yes RNG can be cruel

6. If aquiring only things wasn't so hard or regular Mission were more rewarding

 

Here are some core problems:

1. Star chart missions provide hardly any challenge at all

2. High level enemy scaling mechanics suck

3. Enemy armor is far more powerful than enemy shields

4. The energy system is broken

5. Power creep is power creeping

6. The fastest way to get XP is to stand in one spot and do nothing but hold a button down

1. Depends on your Mods/Build/Playstyle.

2. Scaling is broken but it can give you a challenge in star chart missions

3. Scaling is broken

4. That's your opinion

5. New features need an advantage over old features to keep players playing. Is it good? no, but it's they way the world works

6. If aquiring only things wasn't so hard or regular Mission were more rewarding (this includes XP)

Edited July 21, 2015 by Helch0rn

[f3llyn]

I would say it's not so much a conspiracy as it much as it's pretty obvious. Outside of Rebecca and maybe Megan I don't know of any other DE employees who actually play the game.

[chaotea]

well the guy in charge of drop tables doesnt. the fact that he used cheats in a live stream goes to show he shouldnt be in charge of prime drop tables as he has never grinded before . probably. IMO

All devs, everywhere, use dev builds. DE uses them on streams to show the game in controlled situations.

[AdunSaveMe]

Almost everything you mentioned has been talked about, and the ideas of 'core problems' can vary greatly between people. If they don't take priority, they won't be changed soon.

[UndeadGhostWarrior]

All devs, everywhere, use dev builds. DE uses them on streams to show the game in controlled situations.

 

he used it in  PVP mission against DE Rebecca...

[(PSN)SKRIMP-N-GRITZ]

Some solid responses.

[Tesseract7777]

The truth is that while it may be true most devs rarely play the game (if ever) what isn't being mentioned is that is a fairly common thing in video game design... 

 

Imagine you are a game designer, if you are involved in an important project you are probably not working just 40 hours a week, I'll bet most are working around 60+. When you are at work you are designing Warframe, not getting to play it for fun. When you get home, are you going to want to load up the thing you were tediously working on at work all day, or are you going to watch/play something else to unwind? 

 

Sure, the devs probably load it up occasionally just for fun at home, but when you are working on a game that much and investing that much time into programming it, you probably aren't going to be keen on using your little free time to play it. So most of the play the devs are going to encounter in the game is dev testing in a simulation room of sorts kind of like the Simulacrum which is nothing like playing the game for real. 

 

This is an issue with every game though and I wouldn't criticize DE for it. It's just natural that you won't want to spend all your non work time doing something that reminds you of work. 

[chaotea]

I would say it's not so much a conspiracy as it much as it's pretty obvious. Outside of Rebecca and maybe Megan I don't know of any other DE employees who actually play the game.

Most of the major design team do, they just dont have accounts with DE in the name.

[Nikodemos]

Blanket statements like these don't really go anywhere, and judging by the times I've fought against DERebecca in Conclave and watched the DE livestreams where they play the game, they seem to show the contrary to your claim.

If you want to provide criticism over DE's design decisions, fine by me. But throwing around wild claims like: "DE doesn't play their own game", or: "DE has no idea what they are doing" are borderline flamebaiting and will often end in a locked thread.

[arch111]

I can see where you are coming from.

It is kind of like Stealth. We had topics about how to add this to the game for over a year. Then the new Spy was released.

See, I think the core of Warframe have allways been fast squad-based action with alot of people dying and fx everywhere.

The framework of balance is what everything rests on, besides map-generation and RNG.

So when something is not working as intended, a large number of things need to be changed in order to fix it.

It is like a rockslide. One pebble knocks everything it touches, creating new problems as it falls. This combined with the many demands for new weapons, new Primes, new tilesets, Storyline, Lore and 100 other things, means the most common gets moved to the bottom of the To-Do-List. They do not crash the game, they can be tolerated.

Of course, some people who work on programmes never DO play it for thr simple reason it is not their area of expertise.

But you know that.

[Vance.Stubbs]

Just a few pointers.

 

Nearly any warframe player can tell you the following things:

1. The Supra needs a buff

The Supra doesnt need a buff, its just not as good as some weapons. Its not a high-tier weapon.

 

 

Maaaaan, that is one of the stupidest posts I've seen here. Stopped reading after first "point".

[ARavenousPanda]

To me, evidence seems to indicate that no one at DE actually plays this game. Actions that the developers have taken, or lack thereof, seem to indicate that DE's attention doesn't focus on making changes that the majority of the community wants or fixing core problems with the game.

 

DISCLAIMER, for all of you who need one:

Obviously Warframe's developers actually play the game. This is only a way for me to express my frustrations regarding DE's behavior when it comes to how they handle the game. This may come across as a complaint thread and/or developer bashing, but how am I supposed to critique the devs' behavior if my attempts to do so are immediately written off as just salting? Part of this is me venting my frustrations, part of this is me wanting to critique the devs' handling of the game, and part of this is me bringing this issue out into the open to be discussed, although I somehow doubt that any civil discussion will happen.

 

As much as I hope that this won't get locked for being a complaint topic and I won't get a warning point for developer bashing, I see both as a possibility, and I'm willing to accept that.

 

Nearly any warframe player can tell you the following things:

1. The Supra needs a buff

2. Sniper rifles need a buff

3. Nullifiers and Bombards are not fun to fight

4. Warframe's endgame content sucks

5. RNG grinding is terrible

6. We would rather be actually playing the game than endlessly going to farming spots

 

If any random player was allowed to design their own update, how many of these things would they fix?

 

However, there have been a few things that DE has picked up on, but only after the community has basically burned the forums down about them. You wouldn't actually have to play the game to know these things, just be on the forums at the right time. Ember and Rhino have both received buffs, but the thing is, Ember and Rhino's buffs are even more evidence that DE lacks knowledge about the game.

 

Once again, nearly any player can tell you why Rhino needs a buff: it's because Iron Skin is supposed to make him a tank, but is too weak to actually make him a tank. What Ember needs is a bit more controversial, but most people think that her lack of survivability and damage falloff in late game are her largest downfalls. Both Rhino and Ember got buffs, but Rhino's buff didn't change Iron Skin at all, and Ember's buffs did quite little for her survivability or damage falling off. It seems as if DE understands that these frames need buffs because of the constant forum topics about it, but doesn't understand why the frames have problems, almost as if no one who works there plays the game.

 

Warframe also has a number of more core problems that DE has made no move to change. These are the very biggest issues that harm Warframe the most out of all the problems it has, and nearly nothing has been done to remedy them.

 

Here are some core problems:

1. Star chart missions provide hardly any challenge at all

2. High level enemy scaling mechanics suck

3. Enemy armor is far more powerful than enemy shields

4. The energy system is broken

5. Power creep is power creeping

6. The fastest way to get XP is to stand in one spot and do nothing but hold a button down

 

You would have to not actually play the game to not have at least heard of these problems. Not only has DE not made any effort to fix these core problems, they've also provided us with tools that have been designed around the core problems. Just look at how many augments allow us to remove armor? Wouldn't a simpler solution to the problem be to just not have armor removal be so essential? They created the raids trials in an attempt to actually give the game decent endgame content, but failed to understand that the reason endgame content sucks is because enemy armor and enemy scaling mechanics are broken. Why aren't the end of the star chart and non-endless T4s our endgame content? Why do we have to wade through an hour of defense or survival to get a challenge?

 

I can understand if DE is busy and can't get around to doing everything we want, but I can't understand that DE is too busy to fix the game's core problems, the very largest issues that are making the whole game rot away from the inside. Why don't core problems take top priority? How has DE done nothing to even acknowledge that these problems exist?

1. The Supra needs a buff <--- This is your opinion, not EVERY weapon has to be amazing, tiering and progression is and should be a thing. Supra is OK as is

2. Sniper rifles need a buff<--- No, they need a niche. We call it a buff, but it isnt really

3. Nullifiers and Bombards are not fun to fight<--- I disagree. Keeps you mobile. Nullifiers need a little work [how can i kill one with an opticor/bow?]

4. Warframe's endgame content sucks<--- This game will never really have an end game by the looks of things, as there is never going to be a "i hit the cap" moment. Unless you count hitting MR30 when it happens

5. RNG grinding is terrible<--- True, ill give you credit here

6. We would rather be actually playing the game than endlessly going to farming spots<--- What do you consider "playing the gagme" the term is subjective. I get thigns while i play that i turn into gear. You only farm things you want. What is there to this game outside of farming, anyway?

 

1. Star chart missions provide hardly any challenge at all<--- New players are still a thing, and try soloing pluto defense or survival without playing one of the core survival frames. Its hard, eh?

2. High level enemy scaling mechanics suck<--- true, but what would stop people playing a mission for 6 hours milking rewards? there needs to be an incentive to stop and extract. Only other variant is having non-endless again.

3. Enemy armor is far more powerful than enemy shields<--- Yep, no response here. You made an observation not a statement.

4. The energy system is broken<--- Yep, agree with this. And it lets us break the game. Should definitely be revised

5. Power creep is power creeping<--- Yet your very first point you amde asked for power creep. Well played. But no, not really. With a little balance on some outliers the game is OK [most of the creep comes from abilities anyway]

 

6. The fastest way to get XP is to stand in one spot and do nothing but hold a button down<--- they are adressing this currently, and yes it is. When they fix it, stealth kills in spy will be the fastest XP gain [and it still is for SOLO players]

 

What is everyones obsession with "end game"?

i dont see the point.

 

also why would you want the star chart to be harder? it needs to be revised for different levels of play, because either early nodes will be dead [older players playing in better spots] or new players will complain how older players trivialise their experience [shared nodes, with insentives for old and new players alike]

[chaotea]

Maaaaan, that is one of the stupidest posts I've seen here. Stopped reading after first "point".

Its mastery 7, sure, but i had it before i'd got half way through the starchart.

[HunterHog]

Yeah, it's truly sad about the grinding spots. The one time I got to join Rebecca in a lobby I waited for her to suit up with mods and stuff and then...we went to Draco. 3 times in a row. 4 rounds. Even the Devs go to grinding spots. It's super sad.

[quan256]

Its mastery 7, sure, but i had it before i'd got half way through the starchart.

The most expensive clantech weapon is outperformed by many weapons that can be crafted with BP bought in the market. Don't you see anything wrong?

[chaotea]

he used it in  PVP mission against DE Rebecca...

Which lets be honest was very amusing.

[HunterHog]

 

6. The fastest way to get XP is to stand in one spot and do nothing but hold a button down<--- they are adressing this currently, and yes it is. When they fix it, stealth kills in spy will be the fastest XP gain [and it still is for SOLO players]

 

Wait, seriously? They're going to nerf that immediately after most likely. Pluto Spy already gives you a level on the weapon per vault. That's 3 levels guaranteed + go Loki and stab everyone. That's pretty crazy.

[Monsterwithin]

Agreed.

 

Despite @chaotea and @Helch0rn point of views....

 

All this is pretty nice and clear what needs to be done.

Edited July 21, 2015 by Monsterwithin

[TheGoodDarius]

Of course they do not play their own game. It is in their plan to use it to snare the whole world with it (they even got it to China, coincidence? I don't think so) so they don't use it to not fall victims of it. 

 

Also, look how many triangles can be draw in the word "Warframe", Illuminati confirmed 

[TheBrsrkr]

Honestly, I think they just don't have the time.

Copy paste from a thread I'd rather forget:

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/478149-why-i-think-de-cant-balance-warframe/

Contrary to popular belief, there is no one huge, overarching problem with Warframe at the moment. There are several underlying problems that must all be taken care of simultaneously if Warframe is ever to achieve balance.
Let's take a (un)popular contreversial ability, Peacemaker. Peacemaker is not balanced right now, because when maxed it creates 113 seconds of doing nothing, yet reaping the rewards of doing something. People would argue that it is a damage based skill, that will fall off hard as time passes. They would be right. Others would say that the only reason it falls off is because of infinite scaling being as ridiculous as it is, and they would be right. People would also say that the ability isn't the problem, but the reward scheme is. THey would also be right. Others would say that this is only possible due to the energy system being the way it is right now, failing as a limiting factor. They would also be right. Everyone is right, in different ways. But when we try to fix it, what happens? Take away infinite scaling? Nw Mesa can farm even longer, skewing the reward system. Take away the grind? Now people get an exceedingly large amount of things for little risk on their part. Fix energy? Now there's no way to deal with the infinite scaling and such. And so on, and so forth.

The thing is, all of these things happening at the same time would take a massive amount of man hours to complete, spanning (like I said, I know almost nothing about game design) months of simply planning. Everything, literally every other project DE has been working on will have to be dropped for this to be done in a timely manner. They will be rebuidling the game from scratch, and during that time, nothing else can be done. That is simply too much for DE to handle, since it's very life comes from creating new content. A month without anything new, sure, two months, maybe, but this will span far, far longer than that. Players will get bored and leave, without many new players coming in because there's nothing to bring them in, and when it's finally done, there will be a massive backlash, worse than Viver, worse than E-Gate, where some won't even recognise the game they're playing anymore. That will be a massive blow to DE, one I'm not sure they can handle. It also won't be perfect right out of the door, because nothing ever is, but that will simply be more fuel for the fire. Even if DE were to take it a step at a time, doing that while they create new content, it would take too long, possibly a year, before we can see any progress, and it STILL wouldn't be perfect. They're in a trap, and Im not sure they can make it out.

[-Kryptyk-]

1. They are working on it. They said  they're gonna buff it a few Devstreams ago Edit: or was it Dera? I can't remember

2. They are working on it

3. That's your opinion. I like to fight them

4. Again. That's your opinion.

5. Yes RNG can be cruel

6. If aquiring only things wasn't so hard or regular Mission were more rewarding

 

1. Depends on your Mods/Build/Playstyle.

2. Scaling is broken but it can give you a challenge in star chart missions

3. Scaling is broken

4. That's your opinion

5. New features need an advantage over old features to keep players playing. Is it good? no, but it's they way the world works

6. If aquiring only things wasn't so hard or regular Mission were more rewarding (this includes XP)

Weaponry in general needs a total overhaul and balancing as well as the enemy armour and scaling.  That's not a hard thing to understand.  When an old weapon like the supra is no longer effective, then they haven't been able to build an effective foundation for damage tables in the first place and keep it consistent.  They only change stats, which is just going to throw off the rest of the game.  The supra, for example, was a very early weapon, and it came about before damage 2.0 with no changes done to it.  It hasn't been touched.  Why should it anyway, when the rest of the game is either going to be even more broken because of it, or the supra will become broken and break the rest of the game even more?  It's like this with the entire game and all the weapons and frames.  

 

Nullifiers?  They're just a stupid attempt at fixing something else that doesn't work properly: abilities.  You shouldn't have to create an enemy specifically to resist a frame's ability just because the ability is completely unbalanced and doesn't work in harmony with other frames and even enemies.  Sure, this is a killing and farming game, but creating an enemy just to provide a challenge instead of a different tactic is a horrible habit of amateur programmers.

 

RNG can be cruel.... ok, well let's take a look at RNG a little closer.  There's really little to no rng in the game that I can tell.  It's all still formulated.  But to be fair to the players and to save the devs the complaints from the players, why not build a smart rng system?  Like "oh he hasn't gotten this in a while, let's give it to him.  You know, the forma that he should've gotten at 10 minutes instead of 50 in a survival."  RNG isn't RNG unless it actually works right, and right now, I shouldn't have to farm a survival for 90 minutes just to get a prime part.

 

Regular missions actually don't have any value, and I doubt that that will change when starchart 2.0 comes out because most people will still be playing defenses and survivals just for the xp.  It's all about the xp, and regular missions don't give that.  Not that xp should matter anyway....

 

If you're finding difficulty in a t3 survival, it's only because your build is horrible.  So don't complain that the system is challenging until you actually sit down, figure out modding, and experiment.  There *is no endgame* in warframe.  It's all regurgitated content with a broken scaling buff that doesn't work.  Being swarmed with level 100 enemies that one shot you isn't end game, it's a stupid attempt at providing a "challenge" for mods that will ultimately create more strife about balancing, scaling, nerfing, buffing, reworking, etc.  

 

Energy?  Not really a priority but I'll address it.  It's broken.  No surprise.  The way the energy works is completely inefficient and honestly hard to keep track of sometimes even for more experienced players like myself.  The enemies also stop dropping energy at a certain point, so might as well just not have it.  (oh look, insert another rage about weapons needing a buff because we don't have enough energy to do damage with our abilities).

 

And yes, Draco or Sechura: currently the places to go to to stand in one spot and do almost nothing.  Literally.

 

This game lacks so much, and yet all they do is keep adding.  They don't focus on actually fixing the core aspects of the game because their focus is "keeping everyone interested from new content".  It's also how they get players to shell out more money for stuff - more content.  Dafuq kind of dev team is this?  Grabbing for money from players' pockets.  I've spent almost $4k on the game myself, and it still doesn't do anything.... it's just lure and mastery.  NEWSFLASH DE:  FIXING THE BROKEN S#&$ MAKES US MORE INTERESTED.  Forget all these "hotfixes", just overhaul the game and fix all the problems so you don't have to keep hotfixing it.  

 

Most of these forums are people bringing up issues and raging and debating and arguing.  That could all change.... but I guess it's too much work for a dev team that literally has no vision for the game.  Ideas are different than a vision.  If DE actually had a vision, the game would actually have a trajectory and be more solid.

 

Ok rant over.  At least here... I will go rant about more problems elsewhere most likely.

 

This game will never leave beta ffs...

Edited July 21, 2015 by PriZms