What's Wrong With Triton R5 Core Farming?

[MrSpuddies]

Did i miss a DE announcement where they said they were going to nerf Triton? i have done 9 Triton core farms this week. Out of the 9 core farms, 8 of them have yielded 0 (i repeat, zero) golden cores from the excavators.

 

The one time i did get golden cores, we only got 5.

 

Each time we farmed we went to around 2000 or more before we extracted.

 

And each time I play, the people i play with say "Wow, this has never happened to me before on Triton." and I respond "this is normal for me."

 

So i'm wondering, what is wrong? did the DEs nerf Triton and the general populace just doesn't realize it yet? Is there something wrong with my RNG (wouldn't surprise me, I never get prime parts now. All i get are forma, keys, and single cores)? Is there some way i can reset my RNG?

 

Something else i've noticed is that Lephantis used to drop 1-2 neurodes per farm, and now I have to do about 3 farms just to get 1 neurode if i'm lucky.

 

Anyway, please don't tell me "It's bad luck bro," in response to Triton core farms. 3 times in a row is bad luck. 9 times in a row is statistically significant.

[Stratego89]

It's bad luck bro.

 

3 times is bad luck.

 

9 times is RNG(esus) trolling you.

[Epicagemo]

I might be stealing your luck, because I got 6 core drops, a total of 30 in about 20 extractors in the one time I played it :)

 

Yeah, I feel like they nerfed the drop rates. However, I don't think the cores were affected as much. I think the keys were the ones that were affected. They were diluted with the terribad mods, but r5 drop stayed the same, or was slightly nerfed. Slightly.

Like before, I would get about 50% rewards=keys, now I would only get 2-3 keys per 20.

[traficonserv]

maybe bad luck.

a few days ago i play triton until 3000 cryotic. got packs of cores 6 times. (which makes it 30 cores)

that was good enough for me

[UltimateSpinDash]

Chance is still at 25% every A rotation. Which is a 75% chance to get something else.

[FelisImpurrator]

It's bad luck bro.

 

3 times is bad luck.

 

9 times is RNG(esus) trolling you.

I don't think it's bad luck or a nerf. No, I suspect it's something bigger.

 

See, I've been running T3D and T3S for the last few days, and it wasn't just that I wasn't getting any good drops. It was that the runs were nearly carbon copies of each other. Maybe one rotation reward different. Five, six, maybe seven runs. Different squads. All my keys turned out exactly the same; all of a friend's keys turned out exactly the same.

 

I've heard of a phenomenon from way back in the old days, when RNG was "not random enough" - i.e., that its results were hard-locked to individual players' random seeds, to the point that some people literally could not get specific rewards. I also heard that it was fixed. But see, that doesn't eliminate the possibility... of the bug returning. Somehow. We've gone through a lot of major engine changes in U16 alone, after all.

 

So what if one of the updates broke something, and it's just subtle enough that it's gone unnoticed - or it's difficult to track because to most players it looks as though the dice are simply trolling? There's more to it, too. Like the same spy node in the same day spawning exactly the same three vaults in different orders and drawing from a very specifically limited reward pool (out of the entire set of possible drops)... dozens of times. Or entire days where the spawns in, say, T3D are terminally slow, to the point of spawning a bug thread - but the next day it's perfectly fine, and yet both days there's a predictable pattern and composition to the spawns.

 

I actually want to test something simple - find a squad willing to go to, say, T1 for something like four or five full rotations. Check the drop tables using one person's key, then someone else's, with different hosts. But U17 is just around the corner, and this isn't the right time - so I'm waiting until 17 hits, and if this kind of thing is still happening, it's time to file a report and get testing.

 

Again - it is highly unlikely to be a nerf, stealth or otherwise. But I think there's a good chance there's more to the selectively bad RNG than there appears to be. No tinfoil, just pattern recognition.

Edited July 24, 2015 by FelisImpurrator

[Stratego89]

I don't think it's bad luck or a nerf. No, I suspect it's something bigger.

 

See, I've been running T3D and T3S for the last few days, and it wasn't just that I wasn't getting any good drops. It was that the runs were nearly carbon copies of each other. Maybe one rotation reward different. Five, six, maybe seven runs. Different squads. All my keys turned out exactly the same; all of a friend's keys turned out exactly the same.

 

I've heard of a phenomenon from way back in the old days, when RNG was "not random enough" - i.e., that its results were hard-locked to individual players' random seeds, to the point that some people literally could not get specific rewards. I also heard that it was fixed. But see, that doesn't eliminate the possibility... of the bug returning. Somehow. We've gone through a lot of major engine changes in U16 alone, after all.

 

So what if one of the updates broke something, and it's just subtle enough that it's gone unnoticed - or it's difficult to track because to most players it looks as though the dice are simply trolling? There's more to it, too. Like the same spy node in the same day spawning exactly the same three vaults in different orders and drawing from a very specifically limited reward pool (out of the entire set of possible drops)... dozens of times. Or entire days where the spawns in, say, T3D are terminally slow, to the point of spawning a bug thread - but the next day it's perfectly fine, and yet both days there's a predictable pattern and composition to the spawns.

 

I actually want to test something simple - find a squad willing to go to, say, T1 for something like four or five full rotations. Check the drop tables using one person's key, then someone else's, with different hosts. But U17 is just around the corner, and this isn't the right time - so I'm waiting until 17 hits, and if this kind of thing is still happening, it's time to file a report and get testing.

 

Again - it is highly unlikely to be a nerf, stealth or otherwise. But I think there's a good chance there's more to the selectively bad RNG than there appears to be. No tinfoil, just pattern recognition.

You know now that you mention it a while ago I noticed that like 10 of my T1D runs had been the exact same 4 rewards up to wave 20 each time... maybe something is wonky...

[Prof_Blocks_007]

I don't think it's bad luck or a nerf. No, I suspect it's something bigger.

 

See, I've been running T3D and T3S for the last few days, and it wasn't just that I wasn't getting any good drops. It was that the runs were nearly carbon copies of each other. Maybe one rotation reward different. Five, six, maybe seven runs. Different squads. All my keys turned out exactly the same; all of a friend's keys turned out exactly the same.

 

I've heard of a phenomenon from way back in the old days, when RNG was "not random enough" - i.e., that its results were hard-locked to individual players' random seeds, to the point that some people literally could not get specific rewards. I also heard that it was fixed. But see, that doesn't eliminate the possibility... of the bug returning. Somehow. We've gone through a lot of major engine changes in U16 alone, after all.

 

So what if one of the updates broke something, and it's just subtle enough that it's gone unnoticed - or it's difficult to track because to most players it looks as though the dice are simply trolling? There's more to it, too. Like the same spy node in the same day spawning exactly the same three vaults in different orders and drawing from a very specifically limited reward pool (out of the entire set of possible drops)... dozens of times. Or entire days where the spawns in, say, T3D are terminally slow, to the point of spawning a bug thread - but the next day it's perfectly fine, and yet both days there's a predictable pattern and composition to the spawns.

 

I actually want to test something simple - find a squad willing to go to, say, T1 for something like four or five full rotations. Check the drop tables using one person's key, then someone else's, with different hosts. But U17 is just around the corner, and this isn't the right time - so I'm waiting until 17 hits, and if this kind of thing is still happening, it's time to file a report and get testing.

 

Again - it is highly unlikely to be a nerf, stealth or otherwise. But I think there's a good chance there's more to the selectively bad RNG than there appears to be. No tinfoil, just pattern recognition.

 

I'd be up for helping you with that :P.

 

I heard about this "not random enough" bug somewhere else on the forums. Can't remember where though.

[FelisImpurrator]

You know now that you mention it a while ago I noticed that like 10 of my T1D runs had been the exact same 4 rewards up to wave 20 each time... maybe something is wonky...

Oh boy. Sounds like, if nothing changes by U17... we're going bug hunting, people.

I'd be up for helping you with that :P.

 

I heard about this "not random enough" bug somewhere else on the forums. Can't remember where though.

I saw it in a previous thread about drop rates. And from searching a very old thread. One or two vets have verified that was a thing.

 

I'll add you up, then, and by the time U17 hits... if we're still getting the same copy-pasted rotation every run for an entire day, it's time to break out the badass gear and start trying to get under RNGesus' troll faceplate. In the meantime, just pay attention to the loot you get from end rewards, I suppose.

[BBOTAA]

I don't think it's bad luck or a nerf. No, I suspect it's something bigger.

 

See, I've been running T3D and T3S for the last few days, and it wasn't just that I wasn't getting any good drops. It was that the runs were nearly carbon copies of each other. Maybe one rotation reward different. Five, six, maybe seven runs. Different squads. All my keys turned out exactly the same; all of a friend's keys turned out exactly the same.

 

I've heard of a phenomenon from way back in the old days, when RNG was "not random enough" - i.e., that its results were hard-locked to individual players' random seeds, to the point that some people literally could not get specific rewards. I also heard that it was fixed. But see, that doesn't eliminate the possibility... of the bug returning. Somehow. We've gone through a lot of major engine changes in U16 alone, after all.

 

So what if one of the updates broke something, and it's just subtle enough that it's gone unnoticed - or it's difficult to track because to most players it looks as though the dice are simply trolling? There's more to it, too. Like the same spy node in the same day spawning exactly the same three vaults in different orders and drawing from a very specifically limited reward pool (out of the entire set of possible drops)... dozens of times. Or entire days where the spawns in, say, T3D are terminally slow, to the point of spawning a bug thread - but the next day it's perfectly fine, and yet both days there's a predictable pattern and composition to the spawns.

 

I actually want to test something simple - find a squad willing to go to, say, T1 for something like four or five full rotations. Check the drop tables using one person's key, then someone else's, with different hosts. But U17 is just around the corner, and this isn't the right time - so I'm waiting until 17 hits, and if this kind of thing is still happening, it's time to file a report and get testing.

 

Again - it is highly unlikely to be a nerf, stealth or otherwise. But I think there's a good chance there's more to the selectively bad RNG than there appears to be. No tinfoil, just pattern recognition.

I can tell you one think I noticed. Im MR19

I've done close to 100 ext t3 ... to get a carrier carapace and nothing.

Then I was playing with some friends and one them recently joined the game.

I use some ext t3 keys, another friend MR14  uses one more, then the MR2 puts the key carrier carapace first try.

Ext t2 we went to get him the brain... since I had a some system and bp to give him. I use my ext key, nothing. My other friend use another one, nothing. My friend Mr2 uses a key again first try.

After that, the next day.My MR2 friend joins the game and wants to play with me,we go to do some awchwing so  I can get the receiver for velocitus.

At that point before he joined the game I had already made quite some runs of ext on venus and mars.. probably I can say about 50 in 4 hours or so not sure but a lot... to get a archgun receiver...  He joined we did about 3 ext, and I told him, now you select the mission, to see if get lucky...

And again at the 1st try the rarest item the receiver I was looking...

In more than 1200 i never got lucky to get the mod Bite. Even when there was more kubrows dens,wich means more kubrows.. in excavation earth. 

Countless runs at this one... He selects I got Bite...

The mod Rage After my 1000 hours I decided to get it since I wasnt lcuky to drop it.

I bought it on chat. Literaly my next mission,I went to the void.. And it droped...

What is ramdom about this? hmmm... It makes me wonder if it is just back luck..

And i guess it isn't at all.

[FelisImpurrator]

*snip*

Wow. That... well, if all of that happened exactly as mentioned, you have a higher chance of winning the lottery than to get a set of runs precisely like this.

 

That's pretty strong evidence in my books.

[MagPrime]

Wow. That... well, if all of that happened exactly as mentioned, you have a higher chance of winning the lottery than to get a set of runs precisely like this.

 

That's pretty strong evidence in my books.

I was noticing this last night as well.  While we were running the T3S, the others were getting all the drops first or third run.  The clannie I mentioned, is fairly new and doesn't play often.  Same with another newbie, got the Nova Prime Systems first run two nights ago, they've been playing less than a month. 

[MrSpuddies]

You know now that you mention it a while ago I noticed that like 10 of my T1D runs had been the exact same 4 rewards up to wave 20 each time... maybe something is wonky...

I guess this isn't weird for me, because most of my Tower D runs give me the same reward 4 times up to wave 20 (or at least 3 or the 4 times). I didn't realize that this was weird. I usually get 3 forma and maybe a single golden core from T1D (or 4 forma).

As for Triton, i got about 9 steady hands in one run to 2000... and zero golden cores.

Edited July 25, 2015 by MrSpuddies

[MrSpuddies]

*update* I have now done 12 core farms, with only 2 yielding r5 cores. Both of the two farms i did went to 2000 and i only got 5 r5 cores. the other 10 farms all i got were mods like point blank and stead hands (about 75% the drops i get now is the mod steady hands).

[FelisImpurrator]

*update* I have now done 12 core farms, with only 2 yielding r5 cores. Both of the two farms i did went to 2000 and i only got 5 r5 cores. the other 10 farms all i got were mods like point blank and stead hands (about 75% the drops i get now is the mod steady hands).

Solo or squad? Were you the one picking the mission the entire time?

[MrSpuddies]

Solo or squad? Were you the one picking the mission the entire time?

Squad, and i wasn't the one picking the mission probably 80% of the time. Though it never allows me to be the host of a run anyway. Even if i pick, i'm never the host.

[BlackCoMerc]

Drop rates are ridiculous all over. 

 

We ran 4 T3 Mobile Defense tonight (god I am sick of defending things in this game). Three of the four we got a Form BP as our reward. On the third of four we got a Soma Prime barrel. 

 

One of our clan mates said his goodbyes at that point out of frustration. I cant blame him. 

 

This is pushing people away from the game. DE really needs to step in and figure something out.

[FelisImpurrator]

 

If they were actually working as intended, they probably wouldn't be that bad. Ash parts, for instance, have (roughly) a 7.5% drop rate, or so I've heard. So in theory, it should be highly unlikely to have to go more than a dozen 40-wave defenses without seeing even one.

 

Basically, games tend to rely on seed-based pseudo-random number generation, because "true random" is hideously difficult to program and sustain in a resource-intensive environment. Which is fine in itself, because if done properly, pseudo-random is still random enough to be fair. But with a game that gets engine changes every update, especially code optimization (which is the point of not using truly random values), it's probably very easy to accidentally introduce bugs that make the algorithm far more predictable than it should be.

[Edgarhighman]

I was just introduced to triton. I greatly like the level 70+ enemies coming at you so early into the mission. Althought, the excavators are stupidly weak, they die in 1 bullet after 1400 cryotic.

[rocketman5004]

The easyest way to prove that youre right is excuvation on lua, Keyfarm.
the reward loottable is stuck, so you normally, you get only 2 different keys in one run. 
I once took a screenshot with 3 T3md and 2 T3surv keys + stuff, that appears random to the untrained eye. sometimes, you can get 3 different keys, but thats it.

[FelisImpurrator]

The easyest way to prove that youre right is excuvation on lua, Keyfarm.

the reward loottable is stuck, so you normally, you get only 2 different keys in one run. 

I once took a screenshot with 3 T3md and 2 T3surv keys + stuff, that appears random to the untrained eye. sometimes, you can get 3 different keys, but thats it.

Good idea. Low level missions are indeed the easiest to measure. Testing there will probably go to... 1600 or 2000 cryotic.

 

Besides this, the test will involve Void - an easy T1 Defense, most likely, with different people hosting multiple keys, and if there's time, with multiple session hosts (although I doubt the net host is a factor, considering the preliminary information). If at all possible, hopefully it might involve lower ranked players, less frequent players, people who haven't logged in for a while, or time of day/day of week testing, but that's the extreme end.

[MrSpuddies]

So this leads me to two questions...

 

1st- let's say i have a bug and my RNG is so messed up that Triton just won't work for me like it does most people. Would re-installing the game fix this? or would the problem persist because I'm using the same account before and after the reinstall?

 

2nd- Is the RNG of... lets say a T1 D... determined by the host? or is it determined by the whole group in general?

[FelisImpurrator]

So this leads me to two questions...

 

1st- let's say i have a bug and my RNG is so messed up that Triton just won't work for me like it does most people. Would re-installing the game fix this? or would the problem persist because I'm using the same account before and after the reinstall?

 

2nd- Is the RNG of... lets say a T1 D... determined by the host? or is it determined by the whole group in general?

1. I doubt it. I really don't know, at this point, what actually determines your RNG seed. Only that it seems to change every so often - the timeframe I'm looking at as a most likely explanation is "weekly". Interestingly, the week after Den of Kubrow, the RNG seemed unusually, disproportionately good - ever heard of getting three or four Cleaving Whirlwinds in as many days, or six Neural Sensors from one Ext with every box broken? I hadn't.

 

2. It's probably determined by the key host, as implied by some of the other players' experiences. My T3D keys for the last week were very consistently giving out only cores and forma for an entire rotation, which was completely different from the previous week. Also, keep an eye out for rewards changing at 35 or 40 - 35 seems to be a major turning point for rotations in general.

[BlackCoMerc]

What is wrong with Triton core farming?

 

The first answer is that its the only node in a game with 200 or more of them where a person can reliably obtain rare cores. Which is just plain stupid and a waste of mission space. 

 

The other thing wrong - mechanically, with the mission rewards - is the same thing that's wrong everywhere else: Overly diluted loot tables weighted strongly in favor of things no one either needs or wants. 

 

Honestly, its driving me away from playing the game. I'm playing less and less at a stretch now, taking more and longer breaks and looking more to other games to play that I find more rewarding and less punishing. I dont think I am the only one, either.

 

DE is driving players away. Irritating enemies, pointless missions without rewards, too much grind...its combining to push players aware from Warframe. Something needs to give.

[FelisImpurrator]

 

It probably wouldn't be so bad if it weren't bugged to hell and back, which it almost certainly is, because at this point there's almost no chance RNG isn't broken.

 

As for the rest, Starchart 3.0 is supposed to fix it, wait for that before the doomthreading.