Snipers

[Wolfssenger]

A ricochet mechanic could be quite glorious, but it seems more like something specific to a whole new weapon rather than a weapon revolving around power and range.

Would be fun though, have like an aim mode that paints a line that bounces to show you where you're going to hit, then just pull the trigger when the line goes where you want it.

But I agree snipers feel more about rewarding skill; if we get limited shots and a device that lets us place said shots in very specific places, there should be something that happens when we take full advantage of it.

Exactly why i believe increased body multipliers(or higher crit to utilize super crits on headshots) would be the perfect buff for snipers, although flat buffs also work, they are just boring.

[EinheriarJudith]

If they could simply perform the same job as the bows, perhaps in a different manner, that would be enough, hence my suggestion about the buffed up body multipliers.

i put metal auger on my vectis prime and though it doesnt have the same crit factor as the bows still gives me the punch through i need to kill multiple enemies in a row just like the bows. also snipers have primed and charged chamber. something the bows dont have. its definitely a trade off but the snipers are incredible especially on frames that really can make them shine(nyx, Banshee, Loki*hushed invisibility*)

Edited August 3, 2015 by EinheriarJudith

[Wolfssenger]

i put metal auger on my vectis prime and though it doesnt have the same crit factor as the bows still gives me the punch through i need to kill multiple enemies in a row just like the bows. also snipers have primed and charged chamber. something the bows dont have. its definitely a trade off but the snipers are incredible especially on frames that really can make them shine(nyx, Banshee, Loki*hushed invisibility*)

Charged chamber will never beat out guarenteed crits no matter how you look at it. I know what you mean, my vectis prime has 6 forma and a maxed metal auger, with charged chamber and my 4 forma paris p can still beat it in damage output, even when playing banshee(the only frame that truly makes snipers shine. Any way you look at it, the bows are just better in overall potential and actual dps

[EinheriarJudith]

Charged chamber will never beat out guarenteed crits no matter how you look at it. I know what you mean, my vectis prime has 6 forma and a maxed metal auger, with charged chamber and my 4 forma paris p can still beat it in damage output, even when playing banshee(the only frame that truly makes snipers shine. Any way you look at it, the bows are just better in overall potential and actual dps

where did i say snipers were better than bows hmm? im saying snipers are not as bad as people are claiming them to be. never mind that they also have an aura for damage.

[Wolfssenger]

where did i say snipers were better than bows hmm? im saying snipers are not as bad as people are claiming them to be. never mind that they also have an aura for damage.

I'm saying to play a decent sniper you have to give up so much power/utility(aura for dmg) to even come close to the alternatives. They're an entire class that is underpowered when compared to every other class, where you are literally better off overall picking the equivalent tier weapon. That doesn't warrant a buff?

 

Furthermore, it was the most likely implication as you provided a counterargument to my assertion that they are inferior. Also you dubbed them "incredible" which either puts them at the bows level or sets the bar for "incredible" very very low by your standards, as only one sniper and its prime variant has received a glance from players.

 

I've tried every possible rout to make snipers come up to par, punch through, no crit, max crit, charged chamber, no charged chamber, heavy cal, status builds, everything. I've got 5+ forma on the vectis, vectis prime, and lanka, and I can tell you without a doubt they need a buff to be on the same tier as any other expensive/equivalent weapon of another class.

Edited August 4, 2015 by superfishy36

[EinheriarJudith]

I'm saying to play a decent sniper you have to give up so much power/utility(aura for dmg) to even come close to the alternatives. They're an entire class that is underpowered when compared to every other class, where you are literally better off overall picking the equivalent tier weapon. That doesn't warrant a buff?

 

Furthermore, it was the most likely implication as you provided a counterargument to my assertion that they are inferior. Also you dubbed them "incredible" which either puts them at the bows level or sets the bar for "incredible" very very low by your standards, as only one sniper and its prime variant has received a glance from players.

 

I've tried every possible rout to make snipers come up to par, punch through, no crit, max crit, charged chamber, no charged chamber, heavy cal, status builds, everything. I've got 5+ forma on the vectis, vectis prime, and lanka, and I can tell you without a doubt they need a buff to be on the same tier as any other expensive/equivalent weapon of another class.

ok so when you look at each of the weapons bow vs sniper you can see a clear difference. the damage isnt the problem because vectis/prime is much stronger on its raw damage than both dread and paris prime but not vs daikyu(the draw back of daikyu is that you can only let of an arrow after it fully charges and its charge time is slow even with the highest fire rate mod). the only difference between the both of the weapon types is their crit modifier. if those bows didnt have those high crit chance numbers they would be out right weaker than the snipers on the simple fact that their raw damage is much lower. if DE were to boost the snipers crit chance to match no one would use bows except for just liking the bow style but not for damage. so what do you propose? lower the raw damage and status chance of the snipers to get higher crit chance? then they would be exactly like the bows and all people would have a choice of is gun Vs bow in terms of skin and not stats.

[Wolfssenger]

ok so when you look at each of the weapons bow vs sniper you can see a clear difference. the damage isnt the problem because vectis/prime is much stronger on its raw damage than both dread and paris prime but not vs daikyu(the draw back of daikyu is that you can only let of an arrow after it fully charges and its charge time is slow even with the highest fire rate mod). the only difference between the both of the weapon types is their crit modifier. if those bows didnt have those high crit chance numbers they would be out right weaker than the snipers on the simple fact that their raw damage is much lower. if DE were to boost the snipers crit chance to match no one would use bows except for just liking the bow style but not for damage. so what do you propose? lower the raw damage and status chance of the snipers to get higher crit chance? then they would be exactly like the bows and all people would have a choice of is gun Vs bow in terms of skin and not stats.

Or what about a 40 percent crit chance? Or my suggestion? Or any of the suggestions in this thread? You can't simply use one flawed case to support you, especially when so many less flawed ones have already been given.

[EinheriarJudith]

Or what about a 40 percent crit chance? Or my suggestion? Or any of the suggestions in this thread? You can't simply use one flawed case to support you, especially when so many less flawed ones have already been given.

if they gave sniper a unique body part damage multiplier the bow players would want it for bows too because bows are considered to be long range sniping weapons and then you will be right back at square one. some of the people in this thread want a damage increase but ive already given the argument for that it isnt the damage that makes the bows stronger its their crit chance the snipers damage is fine where it is at(although i share the sentiment that lanka needs love). now if they did make body modifier exclusive to just snipers there would be no issue but then again headshot would but the highest one right? i remember vectis doing crazy headshot damage.

[Wolfssenger]

if they gave sniper a unique body part damage multiplier the bow players would want it for bows too because bows are considered to be long range sniping weapons and then you will be right back at square one. some of the people in this thread want a damage increase but ive already given the argument for that it isnt the damage that makes the bows stronger its their crit chance the snipers damage is fine where it is at(although i share the sentiment that lanka needs love). now if they did make body modifier exclusive to just snipers there would be no issue but then again headshot would but the highest one right? i remember vectis doing crazy headshot damage.

Slippery slope logical fallacy in the first few sentences. Try again with a logically sound argument.

[TaylorsContraction]

Bottom line, snipers ARE good, but not as good as bows or many other weapons. And there isn't a reason for that to be the case. The problem is how do we buff snipers whitout making them hitscan bows? That means we simply can't add crits to them. My vectis starts to fall off around 50 minute sinto an endless mission where even a headshot won't kill a target instantly whereas a bow can. And while automatic rifles won't kill such a target in one round, they can make short work of them nonetheless.

 

Innate punch through would be a good start, I'd be happy with 2 meters as that would allow me to remove metal auger and free up a slot.

 

As I have mentioned before in other threads like this, the most unique aspect of sniping rifles is the scope [with the exception of the buzzlock which too has a scope]. So we should add some utility features that revolve around it. Allow scopes to mark weak spots on enemeies once zoomed in at a group, or display enemies through walls the way our scanners do. Give snipers bonus damage when hitting said weakspots or landing a headshot, they did this in PvP, where a headshot from a vectis nets a 3x damage bonus instead of 2x. They can certainly do that in PvE as well for snipers. These may not be all the changes necessary [or they may be], I think these kind of features would be a good start though.

 

Adding a sniper mod that increases headshot multiplier would be okay too. Yeah we saccrifice a mod slot, but for a substantial damage bonus that could compete with the chamber mods.

[F-Minus]

While we're at it buffing snipers, if DE finds some additional time, better zoom sights might be also welcomed and selectable zoom levels on all sniper rifles. 

[HAYABU5A]

traditional sniper gameplay doesnt work in warframe because tenno move so fast and maps/enemy spawn totally negate extreme long range gameplay

and players overwhelmed by massive numbers where snipers are out performed by other weapons like bows, dmrs / rifles etc

 

so what to do ?

 

warframe sniper mechanic should have unique utility

eg; nullifier bypass, bonus dmg vs heavy/elite/special units, crowd control effect on mobs nearby those killed by snipers etc 

 

so you bring a sniper rifle in your loadout as a particular tool to do a specific job better than other weapon classes 

[Wolfssenger]

traditional sniper gameplay doesnt work in warframe because tenno move so fast and maps/enemy spawn totally negate extreme long range gameplay

and players overwhelmed by massive numbers where snipers are out performed by other weapons like bows, dmrs / rifles etc

so what to do ?

warframe sniper mechanic should have unique utility

eg; nullifier bypass, bonus dmg vs heavy/elite/special units, crowd control effect on mobs nearby those killed by snipers etc

so you bring a sniper rifle in your loadout as a particular tool to do a specific job better than other weapon classes

Exactlt why i suggested some unorthodox things. Traditional sniping doesnt seem to fit the game that well, so make the sniping here unorthodox, something that WILL suit the game.