Covert Lethality : Why Just For Daggers?!

[unknow99]

Starving...

 

2 years have passed, and apart from an amazing mission rework (thank you mr Whirrrrr), we've been starving...

 

A myth, I tell you! Stealth 2.0 is a myth! However, a weak light of hope is still shining in the eyes of the members of the darker part of our community... The part who prefers to make it look like it was an accident...The part the enemy is unaware of...

 

Suddenly, a spark! Briefly seen in a recent devstream, an unexpected mod blew us away. It...It would make our work a lot easier! It would make Infiltration way more viable! It...

 

It was Covert lethality.

 

Nevertheless, a little detail raised the eyebrows of some of us : a dagger only mode? What the Hek?...

 

I can understand that daggers need some love & I heard here and there that it's used in rpg's or stuff for Stealth play.

 

HOWEVER, I don't get it : you're telling me that a dagger to the throat has 100% chance to kill unaware enemies, meanwhile we're not sure if a hammer 4 times the size of their head will give them more than a headache?

 

Meanwhile a neck-breaking move with our Kogake will neutralize them?

 

Meanwhile a sword, piercing the guy from the back to the front will give him more than a tickle?

 

C'mooon...

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Threads about Stealth :

 

- https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/3930-stealth-feedback-suggestions-thread/

(It's been archived? Noooooooooo)

 

- https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/394960-stealth-20-quality-of-life/

 

- https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/494221-will-de-ever-fix-stealth/

 

Thank you for reading.

Edited July 29, 2015 by unknow99

[Xirka]

Who knows, maybe there are mods for the other weapons, wait and see.

[unknow99]

Who knows, maybe there are mods for the other weapons, wait and see.

Hopefully, because I already picture a trend of people who'd discriminate anyone who wants to do a Stealth run without a dagger. :/

[(PSN)Ninja_Reaper_916]

They said each class of melee gets their own mod so I believe only daggers will get that mod as daggers are least used melee

[(PSN)PaceBrkr]

Who knows, maybe there are mods for the other weapons, wait and see.

Exactly this. Rebecca said in the last Devstream that that mod - and the one they made with the Vectis Prime in mind - were only the beginning. From my experience that's how Warframe's development works: new things are conceptualized, brought out to be tested and then expanded/reworked as needed. I'm eager to see what other weapons will get special mods/augments.

Edited July 28, 2015 by (PS4)VanTX89

[unknow99]

Exactly this. Rebecca said in the last Devstream that that mod - and the one they made with the Vectis Prime in mind - were only the beginning. From my experience that's how Warframe's development works: new things are conceptualized, brought out to be tested and then expanded/reworked as needed. I'm eager to see what other weapons will get special mods/augments.

May the almighty code writers read you...

[BlazenFury]

...ofc it's daggers only, they're the steorotypical assassin weapon of choice. It makes a lot of sense...

I'm more interested in what the other weapons will be getting. Like swords: auto reflect effect, 3 ranks, maxes at 40% or something

[Cloud-Sin]

Well some Dagger love is always better than none!  xD

 

This is a subject close to my heart, as the only weapon ive used for the past (who knows how may) months im my beloved Ceramic Dagger,

but this Dagger Aug is alittle pointless imo untill they implement a new Steatlh system, as it stands my Dagger can one hit 99% of the enemies on

the starchart while preforming a Stealth attack.

 

It would have,imo made more sense to make it an outright Finisher damage buff as it would still affect Stealth kills, and would make for a far greater

boost in viability for it as a combat weapon in endless missions such as survival/interception etc, where the enemy scaling gets pretty crazy and even Finisher damage flatens out quite dramatically.

At that stage in those missions for alot of the frames steatlh killing is dam near impossible apart from the random fluke Finisher frome behind that randomly counts as a stealth kill!  Where as combat finishers can be preformed 'left & right', so yea cant say it makes all that much sense ATM,

but hey they may have some crazy plans for stealth an such so who knows.

 

Now all I need is for them to add the 3rd combo back into Pointed Wind that preformed the 'Finisher-Setup Flip'  the one in the image ont he stance for

Pointed Wind that they removed but never changed the image.

 

I'LL MAKE IT EASY FOR YOU DE!: Just Add A Third Combo Into 'Pointed Wind' To Re-Introduce The 'Flip-Manouver' Back Into The Stance, Achieving Two Things IMO: 1) Returns This Beatiful Stance To Its Former Glory (While Preserving The Changes Previously made) 

2) Saves you the Job Of Needing To Create New Artwork.

 

..Just my thoughts.

 

[ivlr3vil]

My dark dagger with gleaming blight awaits this.

Edited July 29, 2015 by ivlr3vil

[ASH_PRIME]

Red Veil stands READY.  Dark Dagger master race.

[Iceheart125]

It's for daggers to give people a reason to use them more, i NEVER see people using them at max level, maybe once in a blue moon. with this, at least some people would use them?

[unknow99]

It's for daggers to give people a reason to use them more, i NEVER see people using them at max level, maybe once in a blue moon. with this, at least some people would use them?

Agree.

 

I just want some other weapons to be viable on this aspect aswell... :/

[GreyEnneract]

I suppose people forgot about this in the older devstream.

[EmptyDevil]

Agree.

 

I just want some other weapons to be viable on this aspect aswell... :/

 

A stealth attack with those other weapons is usually always a guaranteed kill because of their high damage. Daggers needed something to give them a purpose and boost without simply increasing their base damage a ton. It makes sense for daggers to be more stealth oriented; i can't imagine bashing someone over the head with a Jat Kittag and expecting it to be silent.

[unknow99]

A stealth attack with those other weapons is usually always a guaranteed kill because of their high damage. Daggers needed something to give them a purpose and boost without simply increasing their base damage a ton. It makes sense for daggers to be more stealth oriented; i can't imagine bashing someone over the head with a Jat Kittag and expecting it to be silent.

Oh no! It's the devil!! Vade retro satanas!

 

Hm-hmm well, you think it's instakill because you're used to take your maxed pressure point + high status mods, but try to remove them :

 

seeing a bombard in Ceres turn around (like you poked his shoulder) after you were supposed to give him a fatal blow is sooo frustrating man... :/

Edited July 29, 2015 by unknow99

[EmptyDevil]

Oh no! It's the devil!! Vade retro satanas!

 

Hm-hmm well, you think it's instakill because you're used to take your maxed pressure point + high status mods, but try to remove them :

 

seeing a bombard in Ceres turn around (like you poked his shoulder) after you were supposed to give him a fatal blow is sooo frustrating man... :/

 

Why would i take a unmodded weapon and use it for a stealth kill? If i were to use the same build on a dagger, i'd still come up shorter because of the low base damage.

[Cloud-Sin]

That was kinda my point before i can already 1hit 99% of enemies with stealth kills with my current build in standard/nightmare missions, but in endless missions where daggers suffer baddly from damage fall off (already starting with low bse damage) a combat finisher aug would be much more preferable so instead of-

 

 'Covert Lethality'- +4 Stealth Lethal, +200 Melee Damage.    it could be     'Combat Lethality'- +4 Finisher Lethal, +200 Melee Damage.

 

Considering stealth kills ARE dealing finisher damage,'Combat Lethality' would goven both stealth and combat i wouldve thought...?

Maybe theyll make one for both combat and stealth that'd be pretty sweet!  xD

[unknow99]

Why would i take a unmodded weapon and use it for a stealth kill? If i were to use the same build on a dagger, i'd still come up shorter because of the low base damage.

Hmmm yep, I showed my point badly, let me rephrase it :

 

while I agree that heavy weapons don't need that, there's a lot more weapons that don't give the guarantee that your attack will end their suffering quickly!

 

Examples? Silva & Aegis,Furax, Bo, Amphis,Skana,...

 

I just introduced a friend to Warframe & we both like Stealth. The problem is : when there's someone to eliminate on his side, I warn him that this one is for him, he sneaks behind the guy, but most of the time the target still lives aftewards!... (Mercury)

[EmptyDevil]

Hmmm yep, I showed my point badly, let me rephrase it :

 

while I agree that heavy weapons don't need that, there's a lot more weapons that don't give the guarantee that your attack will end their suffering quickly!

 

Examples? Silva & Aegis,Furax, Bo, Amphis,Skana,...

 

I just introduced a friend to Warframe & we both like Stealth. The problem is : when there's someone to eliminate on his side, I warn him that this one is for him, he sneaks behind the guy, but most of the time the target still lives aftewards!... (Mercury)

 

Ehhh, Silva & Aegis needs a buff in general and the others are just low tier weapons. I still think daggers needed this augment the most because none of them really shine on their own at anything in particular.

[unknow99]

Ehhh, Silva & Aegis needs a buff in general and the others are just low tier weapons. I still think daggers needed this augment the most because none of them really shine on their own at anything in particular.

Okay ok, one day they'll need to go back to the huge stack of "mastery fodder" placed just behind their back though...

[EmptyDevil]

Okay ok, one day they'll need to go back to the huge stack of "mastery fodder" placed just behind their back though...

 

Agreed. I think they will eventually get around to reworking and buffing the weapons that need it. These weapon exclusive mods are just the start.

[Cloud-Sin]

Okay ok, one day they'll need to go back to the huge stack of "mastery fodder" placed just behind their back though...

Yea definitely true theres more then a few things in this game that need the cobwebs brushed off and alittle TLC be given.   <3  to the forgotten, 

but seriously Daggers are god tier, its the fact that 99% of people dont believe that they can take on an entire army with just a butter knife in hand...

I on the other hand believe whole heartedly in the strength of my dagger,and together we achieve great things..  xD 

 

[Fari]

Yeah, I like that daggers are the ultimate stealth damage thing now, but with how long the animations are for all weapons, I feel like they all deserve infinite scaling one shots. Or better yet, faster animations.

Really hoping they'll also bring a finisher speed mod out, because honestly even with daggers finishers seem kind of tedious, even for 100% stealth stuff.

Maybe even something like, non finisher damage down a bunch, with finisher speed up? I'd rather finishers were just flat out worthwhile in general, but I'd even be willing to give up a melee's viability outside of finishers for actually being good at finishers.

 

Ultimately though I think my verdict is Daggers should be the very best for finishers, but at the very least all weapons should do enough finisher for non endless mission enemies, probably?

Or I dunno, greatly improved speed, and also even if they aren't fatal, the enemy isn't just gonna turn around and alert everyone. Maybe he could just receive some kind of CC from being finishered. With current finisher speed they do all deserve to kill, even more so that given you aren't using a power it can be pretty tough to successfully get enemy blind spots and all.

[unknow99]

Yea definitely true theres more then a few things in this game that need the cobwebs brushed off and alittle TLC be given.   <3  to the forgotten, 

but seriously Daggers are god tier, its the fact that 99% of people dont believe that they can take on an entire army with just a butter knife in hand...

I on the other hand believe whole heartedly in the strength of my dagger,and together we achieve great things..  xD 

 

 

Modded like this, you'd massacre a manic corrupted nullifier with a finger in the nose indeed....

 

 

Yeah, I like that daggers are the ultimate stealth damage thing now, but with how long the animations are for all weapons, I feel like they all deserve infinite scaling one shots. Or better yet, faster animations.

Really hoping they'll also bring a finisher speed mod out, because honestly even with daggers finishers seem kind of tedious, even for 100% stealth stuff.

Maybe even something like, non finisher damage down a bunch, with finisher speed up? I'd rather finishers were just flat out worthwhile in general, but I'd even be willing to give up a melee's viability outside of finishers for actually being good at finishers.

 

Ultimately though I think my verdict is Daggers should be the very best for finishers, but at the very least all weapons should do enough finisher for non endless mission enemies, probably?

Or I dunno, greatly improved speed, and also even if they aren't fatal, the enemy isn't just gonna turn around and alert everyone. Maybe he could just receive some kind of CC from being finishered. With current finisher speed they do all deserve to kill, even more so that given you aren't using a power it can be pretty tough to successfully get enemy blind spots and all.

Faster animations? Yes, definitely!

 

Some of them are wayyyy too long... And sometimes you need to think & move fast if several enemies are close to your target.(or if you gotta deal with a patrolling foe in a spy room full of cameras & drones)

Edited July 29, 2015 by unknow99

[Fari]

Yea definitely true theres more then a few things in this game that need the cobwebs brushed off and alittle TLC be given.   <3  to the forgotten, 

but seriously Daggers are god tier, its the fact that 99% of people dont believe that they can take on an entire army with just a butter knife in hand...

I on the other hand believe whole heartedly in the strength of my dagger,and together we achieve great things..  xD 

You know, I wanted to believe you. But then I saw you were using Sundering Strike and Rending Strike, why man? No hate for puncture damage, but Sundering Strike gives you nearly 10% less damage than an elemental would, and Rending Strike is even worse off. Those mods are horribly balanced and need complete number overhauls almost as badly as daggers do.

 

On Ceramic Dagger specifically, you need 100% puncture damage from a mod for it to give you the same numbers a 90% elemental gives. In fact, you get .001 less damage with a 100% puncture damage mod than an elemental. So, that's 20% gains if were using Auger, but it's a 10% and 20% loss respectively.

 

I can completely respect using normally sub optimal mods like reload speed, magazine size, and all that. But when all a mod does is add damage and you're using a worse variant with nothing inhibiting the use of the better alternative (Elementals, I understand not having Auger) it's just pretty painful.

 

I guess Combo'd with all those forma, you're probably just putting them on to cause physical pain to those who see the build, but I still wanna let you know. *edit* Wait a minute! You did in fact have Auger on there too. Props must be given there, but the fact remains the other two aren't worth it even though it is.

 

 

Faster animations? Yes, definitely!

 

Some of them are wayyyy too long... And sometimes you need to think & move fast if several enemies are close to your target.(or if you gotta deal with a patrolling foe in a spy room full of cameras & drones)

 

Yeahh, if there's any other units anywhere nearby it's pretty risky doing a finisher, because the time it takes give them plenty of time to turn around and see you doing the animation on their buddy. I mean, seeing the corpse just sitting there when they turn around would be pretty fishy too, but at least that's not a mechanic issue as much. Totally in support of some kind of melee that can pull an enemy from a distance and then finisher them though. Mios maybe? The ultimate stealth, pulling a body into a closet to kill them.

Edited July 29, 2015 by NearoC