Increase Damage Mods (Serration, Point Blank, Pressure Point)

[birdei]

With the upcoming utility slots for warframes, I seen people asking the same thing for weapons. Instead of asking for a utility slots, lets take a look at the increase base damage mods for a moment. Every single weapon you use, you would need to use one of these mods, which effectively drops your mod slot from 8 to 7. There is no arguing about that, there is only 7 slots to use unless you seriously just want to gimp yourself.

 

Do away with these mods but just have the weapon damage scale up as you level them up. That way we are not pigeon hole into using 1 slot dedicated to increase base damage. That would free up a slot to use whatever mod we want.

 

The corrupted increase base damage mods can stay as is. there is a downside to those to let people decide if they want to use them or not, as they are not required unlike their non corrupted version.

 

I know people have brought this up before so I am bringing it up again.

 

 

[(XBOX)SylvEmily]

I manage fine w/out these for a while. Who said we 'Had' to use them?

[Acos]

There was an idea awhile back to just remove these mods entirely, and up the damage of everything as though they were equipped. Never really went anywhere though. 

[UndeadGhostWarrior]

increase serration?  nah i can just imagine the whiners complaining

[ShortCat]

Yes, to removing/changing this mods.

 

No, to scaling dmg with levels, because if we get a free Seration just for leveling, then any new player will get a free Serration to fast and too easy. The feeling of progress and accomplishment will be gone.

There were so many good suggestions on this matter on the forum.

I would suggest to change it to: "Bonus dmg if you hit weak points". It's conditional dmg-buff that rewards skill and is not necessary a must have.

[ShortCat]

increase serration?  nah i can just imagine the whiners complaining

Looks like someone only reads the titel.

[MA347612890GT4078579132R]

I manage fine w/out these for a while. Who said we 'Had' to use them?

Question: Do you do T4 Endless missions? How far do you go in them?

[(XBOX)SylvEmily]

Question: Do you do T4 Endless missions? How far do you go in them?

30-40, I play safer than most.

[Naftal]

30-40, I play safer than most.

So, is there a reason you prefer spending about three times as much time on killing an enemy?

[McBonY]

So, is there a reason you prefer spending about three times as much time on killing an enemy?

It's called "challenge". Is there a reason you prefer not to have any?

[ShortCat]

It's called "challenge". Is there a reason you prefer not to have any?

What is so wrong with challenge without gimping yourself on purpose? And the point here is not challenge but more customisation.

[Naftal]

It's called "challenge". Is there a reason you prefer not to have any?

It's not a challenge, it's just slow.

[ShioriShi]

Not only the base damage mods, but also the multishot mods. While its true you don't "need" any mods at all, they are used by nearly every player, and they do limit what mods you can put on your weapons. Now before you go on arguing if we remove those mods, people would just throw on 2 more elemental mods for more damage, I would prefer is 2 slots where reserved for utility mods rather then damage mods.

[HecatesLover]

Getting a full set of mods and leveling them is a significant part of power progression in the game. Yes some mods are so good they are basically mandatory for power progression but that isn't necessarily a bad thing. Warframe's power progression is an important part of the overall game and its longevity. Additionally, did anybody consider that current mod limits for weapons are considered part of the game's overall power balance? Because that is blatantly obvious to me. Be careful what you wish for. If I were a dev and were convinced to remove the base damage mods then I would reduce weapons to 7 mod slots. Removing the base damage mods because "I want another mod slot!" is just shortsighted whining.

 

Now lets look at why the utility slots are being added to frames. This is also obvious to me. We have a giant pile of mods that are very rarely used. Sprint or slide speed mods are useful but when they compete with power or defense mods most people are going to go for the power/defense. Add in that another set of mods, augments, have been added to the game which also compete with these rarely used mods. So taking these facts into consideration what would you do as a game dev? You designed all these mods that people don't use and you want people to use them. They aren't raw power gains for the players so what would you do to encourage players to use them? See where the obvious comes in. A slot that you can only put those underused mods in is the very clear solution.

[WereFowl]

I'd say switch these mods to just add an amount of damage, not a percentage.

[ShortCat]

Getting a full set of mods and leveling them is a significant part of power progression in the game. Yes some mods are so good they are basically mandatory for power progression but that isn't necessarily a bad thing...

 

Now lets look at why the utility slots are being added to frames. This is also obvious to me. We have a giant pile of mods that are very rarely used. Sprint or slide speed mods are useful but when they compete with power or defense mods most people are going to go for the power/defense. Add in that another set of mods, augments, have been added to the game which also compete with these rarely used mods. So taking these facts into consideration what would you do as a game dev? You designed all these mods that people don't use and you want people to use them. They aren't raw power gains for the players so what would you do to encourage players to use them? See where the obvious comes in. A slot that you can only put those underused mods in is the very clear solution.

I agree on the necessety of progression by mods. However the choices are so clear, that any end game build for one 1 weapon looks almost the same for every player. How did you mod your Parris P. for T2S? I bet I can tell 7/8 mods you use. Same goes for other weapons. The choices are so clear, that customization tends to be very poor.(It looks better for Frames though)

Some weapons deal enough dmg so that we are not punished by equping Utility mods(Tonkor or Opticor), however they are exceptions. Other weapons are modded very similar, especially if they are in the same weapon category.

Again it is not about power, it is about customisation.

 

Off topic: your comparison to new utiility slot is very poor. First of all it is not a Utilitymod buff but a simple Framebuff, as we get a new slot. Utilitymods are not changed or buffed, the bad ones will be bad, we are just penalised less for using them. 

A dedicated slot is the easiest solution, not the best one. It slightly improves customization, deos nothing for balance though.

[(XBOX)SylvEmily]

Man, I manage to do this fine too

[(PSN)Killmoves37]

I'd say switch these mods to just add an amount of damage, not a percentage.

That would cause a large amount of problems. With a flat damage increase, say 200 damage, you'd run into a situation where you'd only use weapons with high fire rate. A grakata doing 211 damage with a fire rate of 20.0 is going to outperform even a Boltor prime with 255 damage and a fire rate of 10.0.

[WereFowl]

However, if they sorted out enemey scalling then we wouldn't have a situation were some mods are mandatory on weapons. Also it would mean players choosing a wider variety of weapons.

 

You're right though, that the fly in the ointment would be fire rate, mthat's why I'd also add a cap on each weapons max damage.

 

However that would require a big rework on enemy scaling.

[BrazilianJoe]

The problem is that these mods are not only:

 

1) "flat damage increase"; but also:

2) They are added to the damage calculation BEFORE other mods. 

 

So, my awesome +90% elemental damage mods multiplies not base weapon damage, but weapon damage + serration. That is the first bullet point in the mandatory-ness of the mod. But there's more:

 

3) The values are way too high.

 

When we look at the plain enemy droppable elemental mods, they all do a nice 90% damage boost. 

Event damage-specific mods fall into 2 categories: 

120% damage-specific boost;

60%/60% damage/status boost, also totaling 120%.

 

Which makes a nice predictable pattern. Enemies drop a 90% buff. Events or spy missions or Vor drop a harder to get 120% buff in one stat or split over 2 stats. 

 

Serration-class mods however give the player a 165% damage, AND drop from enemies, so they are not really hard to acquire. One may argue that it's fair because they have 10 levels.

Only it's not quite fair because there is no counterpart 10-level Event/dual-stat mod, and points 1) and 2).  

 

Touching it would cause a furor however you design it, but as-is, it's inconsistent and a fake choice. 

 

I think that the base weapon should have *some* damage  buf on leveling up, not at Serration-levels though.

Serration should be converted into legendary cores, and then reintroduced as a 5-level mod which adds 90% flat damage, without compounding with other mods like it did before.

Edited July 29, 2015 by -TP-BrazilianJoe

[Acos]

If the base damage of a weapon is simply increased at each rank until it is equal to max ranked serration at rank 30, then literally nothing changes except that we all gain another mod-slot. I'm not sure why other posters in this thread are making this out as though it's something more complicated. 

[blazinvire]

Yeah I already made a topic about this once, we should really just remove these silly mods.

 

As far as I'm concerned, modding is about 'customization', there is no customization in a flat damage upgrade.

[Jeetza]

I manage fine w/out these for a while. Who said we 'Had' to use them?

Are you a masochist or something? I mean, thats like only using the Plasma Sword for a month with only primed reach and melee prowess. It is just painful.

[AutoPhox]

If the base damage of a weapon is simply increased at each rank until it is equal to max ranked serration at rank 30, then literally nothing changes except that we all gain another mod-slot. I'm not sure why other posters in this thread are making this out as though it's something more complicated. 

I also like this idea, but as it is currently presented, it only balances with vets who have a maxed(ish) Serration. Newbies get an added benefit.

 

This one thing has to be considered. New players could grind their weapons up to 30 without having to wait for Serration to drop, nor put all the resources(mods/credits) into leveling it up. Is this acceptable? (im indifferent as i am a vet and this is a PvE game)

[(XBOX)SylvEmily]

Are you a masochist or something? I mean, thats like only using the Plasma Sword for a month with only primed reach and melee prowess. It is just painful.

I use Max Fury, and Channel Efficency on a Hate, not painful