An Idea To Balance Ammo Issues.

[Cyborg-Rox]

Ammo is something that has quite a few flaws in it IMO. 

 

This is not part of my idea, I'll get to that later, but there's so many weapons that have way too little ammo and others that have way too much! The Latron doesn't need 540 bullets, and the Twin Vipers need more than 210 bullets! These are just two examples of major balance issues with many more weapons.

For a long time, all weapons have had their 'stock' max ammo depending on the type of weapon it is, but lately we've seen more and more weapons with custom ammo pools, like the Twin Grakatas, Soma Prime and Synoid Gammacor. So that's a good thing, but they need to go back and change other weapons as well. 

 

Now for my idea. Even if weapons with insane fire-rate gets a much larger ammo-pool, that will still be a problem, because you need to pick up so many more ammo drops for it! So I propose the amount of ammo you get from drops is determined by your max ammo pool. A percentage of it, if you will. This means you won't need 100 drops to re-fill your Twin Grakatas, and the Marelok will need more than 5. Balance!

 

Also, to make it easier and less time-consuming for the Devs, the max ammo pools can be adjusted automatically based on their fire-rate/reload time. Maybe even increased with fire-rate mods.

 

What do you think, Tenno?

Edited August 5, 2015 by Cyborg-Rox

[taiiat]

making a system that automatically generates Ammo Pool based on Magazine, Fire Rate, and Reload would probably take more time and tuning than just setting the Ammo Pool yourself for each item.

the rest i am generally in favor for (having Ammo as a part of balancing as a general principle) and am neutral to how you'd want to accomplish that.

[Cyborg-Rox]

making a system that automatically generates Ammo Pool based on Magazine, Fire Rate, and Reload would probably take more time and tuning than just setting the Ammo Pool yourself for each item.

 

I guess. Should be some array for all of this though. For example...

 

Fire-rate:    Max ammo:    Ammo pickup:

10               400                20

9                 360                18

8                 320                16

7                 280                14

6                 240                12

5                 200                10

4                 160                  8

3                 120                  6

2                   80                  4

1                   40                  2

[taiiat]

I guess. Should be some array for all of this though.

yes, but you need to tweak the crap out of it so that you get the right results for each Weapon, and double check the end results for each Weapon to make sure it's actually a good result, Et Cetera.

i think you're just better off setting the numbers yourself.

[TheNamesLuigi]

Ammo Reserves and Mutation mods need some looking at.  TBH i think they should put a leash on some of the ammo pools making tenno to swap to thier secondaries on occasion.

[EinheriarJudith]

Ammo Reserves and Mutation mods need some looking at.  TBH i think they should put a leash on some of the ammo pools making tenno to swap to thier secondaries on occasion.

the problem with this is ammo mutation. people using ammo mutation on secondaries will not gain ammo for the primary weapon.

Edited August 5, 2015 by EinheriarJudith

[Cyborg-Rox]

yes, but you need to tweak the crap out of it so that you get the right results for each Weapon, and double check the end results for each Weapon to make sure it's actually a good result, Et Cetera.

i think you're just better off setting the numbers yourself.

 

The thing is, I think it's less likely to be done at all if it were to be done like that, and would take more time.

Just a quick look at some dozens of ammo pools, compare them to fire-rate and such, and change it up accordingly. It might be rushed, and it might not be nearly as good as what you're suggesting, but it would be a hell of a lot better than currently, where almost every single weapon has the same ammo pool! Where every primary with 20 or more fire-rate, and every secondary with 10 or more fire-rate, will automatically be horrendous!

At least, that's my opinion...

[EinheriarJudith]

there is somewhat of an issue with some weapons concerning ammo even with the mutation and only centered around picking up ammo this is one of the reason i use carrier. with kohm even with the ammo mutation i need to use shotgun scavenger with or without carrier for long fights, for soma prime i need to do the same but with rifle scavenger for long fights but the issue comes down to worrying about picking up ammo in a serious dog fight. ive said it many times frames should have a 5m vacuum that will solve all the ammo issue especially on weapons whose ammo max is 120 or lower.

 

P.S. weapons with low ammo maximum benefit the most from team ammo restores. dont like using them? that is a personal problem you will have to come to terms with yourself.

Edited August 5, 2015 by EinheriarJudith

[taiiat]

ive said it many times frames should have a 5m vacuum that will solve all the ammo issue especially on weapons whose ammo max is 120 or lower.

no thanks, i don't want the game wasting my Ammo Pickups.

having every Pickup used for less than 10% of it's total Ammo value only worsens the problem, it doesn't make it better.

i can manage Ammo for Weapons with smaller Pools just fine without Mutation or Vacuum. because i avoid wasting Ammo Pickups.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

Give us a Dash Polarity Aura that regens ammo at a rate of 5% of a weapon's max ammo per second at max level.

[Cyborg-Rox]

Give us a Dash Polarity Aura that regens ammo at a rate of 5% of a weapon's max ammo per second at max level.

 

That's not the right solution. It would be useless on some weapons, and too little on other weapons.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

That's not the right solution. It would be useless on some weapons, and too little on other weapons.

Weapons that it is useless on can use a different aura.  Otherwise it completely regens 100% of your ammo every 20 seconds solo or every 5 seconds if you have a party of 4 all using it. Not even the Amprex would outpace that.

[Cyborg-Rox]

Weapons that it is useless on can use a different aura.  Otherwise it completely regens 100% of your ammo every 20 seconds solo or every 5 seconds if you have a party of 4 all using it. Not even the Amprex would outpace that.

 

I'm personally against Auras that affect your weapons rather than your Warframe. You shouldn't have to sacrifice a bonus to your Warframe to get a bonus for a weapon instead. The weapon bonus should be completely independent from your Warframe, as far as modding goes.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

I'm personally against Auras that affect your weapons rather than your Warframe. You shouldn't have to sacrifice a bonus to your Warframe to get a bonus for a weapon instead. The weapon bonus should be completely independent from your Warframe, as far as modding goes.

Weapon affecting auras already exist.

[Cyborg-Rox]

Weapon affecting auras already exist.

 

I know. Does that mean I can't be against it? 

[EinheriarJudith]

no thanks, i don't want the game wasting my Ammo Pickups.

having every Pickup used for less than 10% of it's total Ammo value only worsens the problem, it doesn't make it better.

i can manage Ammo for Weapons with smaller Pools just fine without Mutation or Vacuum. because i avoid wasting Ammo Pickups.

how does this have any relevance to what you chose to quote me on

Edited August 5, 2015 by EinheriarJudith

[Ceryk]

They probably won't do anything about it because they've got these mods \people don't seem to know about\ called Ammo Scavenger Mods and Ammo Mutation Modsthat help to alleviate ammo issues.

Edited August 5, 2015 by Ceryk

[EinheriarJudith]

I'm personally against Auras that affect your weapons rather than your Warframe. You shouldn't have to sacrifice a bonus to your Warframe to get a bonus for a weapon instead. The weapon bonus should be completely independent from your Warframe, as far as modding goes.

your warframe is not the only part of your arsenal you can dislike it but that is personal opinion and doesnt mean those mods that dont are bad. im for any aura that helps me do what i want. if im using snipers i run dead eye if im running rifles and my aura on the frame is V i run rifle amp.

Edited August 5, 2015 by EinheriarJudith

[EinheriarJudith]

They probably won't do anything about it because they've got these mods \people don't seem to know about\ called Ammo Scavenger Mods and Ammo Mutation Modsthat help to alleviate ammo issues.

you are correct. ive said it a previous post when im using kohm i run shotgun scavenger because even with the mutation it does not last in long fights.

[Cyborg-Rox]

your warframe is not the only part of your arsenal you can dislike it but that is personal opinion and doesnt mean those mods that dont are bad. im for any aura that helps me do what i want. if im using snipers i run dead eye if im running rifles and my aura on the frame is V i run rifle amp.

 

I'm not against the bonuses you get. I'm against having to use them on your Warframe.

At this point, I don't think there's a simple and effective way to fix it. It just shouldn't have been implemented in the first place IMO.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

your warframe is not the only part of your arsenal you can dislike it but that is personal opinion and doesnt mean those mods that dont are bad. im for any aura that helps me do what i want. if im using snipers i run dead eye if im running rifles and my aura on the frame is V i run rifle amp.

+1

[taiiat]

You shouldn't have to sacrifice a bonus to your Warframe to get a bonus for a weapon instead.

that's not how this works.

that Slot isn't a 'Warframe Bonus'. it's a Bonus in general that just happens to be on the screen related to your Warframe.

for all Intents and Purposes, it's completely separate.

remember Artifacts being viewed on the Solar Map? those are the same as all of the Auras we have now. it has nothing whatsoever to do with your Warframe, it only happens to be in that menu.

it's even really nice despite that. even though that slot has no direct connection to your Warframe, your Warframe gets bonus Mod Points from it.

if your answer is "but i Polarized my Aura and i can't change it!" that's your fault for Polarizing your Warframe incorrectly. instead of being flexible, you locked yourself into a trap.

basically, don't think of it as a bonus for your Warframe. think of it as a Slot that gives whatever bonus you want to have, and also gives extra Mod Points to your Warframe as a side bonus to your bonus (... yo dawg i heard you like bonuses?).

how does this have any relevance to what you chose to quote me on

we'll try it a different way then.

you, want all items to be automatically sucked up by your Warframe so you can be lazy.

I, don't want that, because it means wasting Energy Orbs and Ammo Pickups, being a direct downgrade to my Gameplay experience.

if you MUST have lazymode, use Carrier or the new Doge breed.

i will continue to manage my Pickups manually, and therefore have more Energy and Ammo available.

this is like an Automatic Transmission vs a Manual Transmission. you want to make a law that everyone has to use an Automatic Transmission because you don't like that it's possible to use a Manual Transmission.

however, those that prefer a Manual Transmission as it's simply superior performance but isn't as easy to use, are not going to vote for your law, not a chance.

Edit:

Give us a Dash Polarity Aura that regens ammo at a rate of 5% of a weapon's max ammo per second at max level.

but that would be better than Ammo Scavenger... by miles.

which are not 'bad' Auras as it stands, they are incredibly powerful for gaining Ammo. they blow Mutation out of the water. which is why they are located in the Aura Slot.

Edited August 6, 2015 by taiiat

[An_Atheist]

Wow. So many people forgetting that we had 2 guns and a melee weapon. If you are running low with one just switch to the other to get ammo?

[----Fenrir----]

Agreed, when a weapon can empty all it's ammo reserves in less than a minute (most full auto dual pistols) while others can shot for minutes without having to pick up any ammo (Vaykor Marelok or Latron for example) then there is something clearly wrong with balancing.

[TheNamesLuigi]

the problem with this is ammo mutation. people using ammo mutation on secondaries will not gain ammo for the primary weapon.

 

An idea i've been tossing around for a while is have the mutations ONLY work with your secondary equipper (prioitizing secondary before mutation) and vice versa, increasing weapon variety while having Tenno mix things up a bit.

 

Give us a Dash Polarity Aura that regens ammo at a rate of 5% of a weapon's max ammo per second at max level.

 

Plesae dont give DE ideas to fix problems with grinding out more mods. *cough* Depleted Reload *cough*