The Synergy Overhaul: Saryn

[Ixhaton]

Salute Tenno,

I had this in my mind for a while now, and with the recent overhaul of Excalibur, making him a top melee frame, I found that Saryn could also use quite a similar treatment.

 

With a number of her current abilities being rather conflicting, e.g. Molt and Miasma - both based on duration, but exact opposites to eachother, I thought it would be better to synergise these, to make them actually both useful instead of opting the one over the other.

So the biggest changes will be to these abilities, now based more on positive duration and power strength.

 

This imho requires a small bit of shuffling to her abilities, but giving her a nice synergistic set to play with and to be a high-end capable frame at the same time.

Miasma and Contagion will be swapped for this purpose.

 

 

- Venom: 

Cast in exactly the same ranged way as her current Venom.

It will now shoot out a spore that behaves more like a Torid grenade. 

It will deal a percentage (%) based on power strength and duration of corrosive and smaller amounts of viral and toxin.

It will also lower enemy armor by a percentage.

The spores can still be shot in the same way and can still be spread in the same way.

Destroying the spores will cause a corrosive/toxic/viral cloud to linger.

 

- Molt: 

Exactly the same as before, can be cast while moving/jumping.

Based on power duration and strength.

Corrosive on touch, guaranteed proc.

 

- Miasma: (big change here!)

On casting it will now first radiate out exactly like Nova's Molecular Prime.

Around Saryn a cloud dealing corrosive and in lesser amounts toxin and viral damage will stick around her.

(kinda like Embers World on Fire).

This ability can be toggled.

This ability will lower enemy armor by a percentage.

This ability will be affected by power strength, duration and range mods.

Every enemy inside the cloud will have it's accuracy and speed reduced.

 

 

- Contagion:

This ability will now work kinda like Excaliburs Exalted blade.

(This ability will not send out energy waves however)

Saryn will infuse her melee weapon with a mix of Corrosive - and lesser amounts of Viral and Toxin.

Upon dealing damage it will have very high proc chance.

Makes Saryn highly restistant against infested sludge,swarms and corrosive/toxin/viral procs

 

Has, like Excalibur the following:

- Automatically blocks damage, like Exalted Blade

- It's own stance built in.

- Can be toggled.

 

When used together with both Venom and Miasma, it will be highly effective against armored targets.

This way she will retain her status as tanky melee frame.

 

[PhoenixElite]

Honestly, that contagion ability you suggested just sounds like an exalted blade for saryn that doesn't even fit her kit, playstyle, OR theme.

She does need a rework/overhaul though.

[rockscl]

the auto block doesnt fit her, instead contagion could proc the same effects as venom on hit when saryn blocks

Edited August 7, 2015 by rockscl

[Archistopheles]

It all depends on what DE wants Saryn to be. Venom will always be somewhat terrible because it's competition are Fireball, Freeze, Shock, and Spectral Scream. Molt is pretty much perfect, and Miasma will decide how much Contagion gets buffed.

 

If they make her a + duration AoE denial frame, they'll turn Miasma into a slow moving DoT cloud that scales off duration instead of negative duration.

 

If they keep her a Nuke-tank, it'll probably be Gas based, and come accompanied with unrelenting fart jokes.

 

Once that's established, then Contagion can be reworked, or gotten rid of completely in favor of some kind of poison-flower mine, or a more flexible self-buff.

[blazinvire]

Aye, I like most of the ideas barring Contagion -though I am relieved you're not following the trend of turning it into a non-melee buff- but Archistopheles has a point, I think Saryn's rework is going to be entirely reliant on whatever 'theme' they actually had in mind for her.

 

Right now it's a bit ambiguous, as she's sort of a nuke, sort of a tank, sort of an elemental blaster.  She's one of the four elemental frames, but she's got so many themes attached to her from plants to snakes.

And if you consider stuff like how many people keep suggesting to swap the names of Contagion and Venom, since it'd be more appropriate, and I've always been miffed that Miasma is just a poisonous nuke rather than an actual Miasma.

 

With Contagion and Molt, we have a snake in combat that weaves in and out hitting like a truck -as opposed to poisoning them...

 

Molt and Miasma we have an elusive seeker nuke where she just embeds herself amongst it and goes boom.

 

And then just Venom.  Randomly.  In case you feel like being a bit of a caster?

 

Felt like they had a unique idea they were trying to nail, but got tangled up/lost somewhere.

 

If Miasma was more like World on Fire like you suggested, perhaps some utility added to Venom, and tweak Contagion so it's more thematic and less clunky to use, I think we'd be set.

[Ixhaton]

Honestly, that contagion ability you suggested just sounds like an exalted blade for saryn that doesn't even fit her kit, playstyle, OR theme.

She does need a rework/overhaul though.

It does fit her kit.

Look at her current abilities and stats.

Her Miasma is a radial nuke, perfect for being in the middle of a crowd.

Molt assists in this by lowering aggro on Saryn.

Her armor value of 155,

and her aura polarity slot which faclilitates Rejuvenation.

If an exalted blade type abiliity does not fit her, then it should not fit Excalibur aswell.

Ofcourse, feel free to disagree, i'm just pointing out the obvious here.

 

the auto block doesnt fit her, instead contagion could proc the same effects as venom on hit when saryn blocks

Auto-block fitting or not, if one frame can have this, why not others?

It would be no more then reasonable to incorporate a same mechanic in a same kind of ability.

As for ambition; I think she is too ambitious the way she is right now. 

The overhaul suggested here, would atleast bring alot more sense into it all. Especially the conflict between positive duration Molt and negative duration Miasma.

And honestly, I do find her current Contagion the odd abilitiy in her set, as most people would probably agree.

What I suggested here, would atleast make it very more useful imho.

 

[blazinvire]

Auto-block fits Excalibur because he's a sword nut, Saryn would be more someone who just tanks the hits and regenerates but has toxic blood and poisons people who successfully strike her in melee -everyone else would be shooting a Molt.

 

Though I do agree on some level with Exalted Blade in the manner that Contagion should be a toggle-able ability, and probably should be more about toxin procs than actual flat damage, and the idea of having mini-versions of abilities to use like how Exalted Blade likes the Excal effectively spam Radial Blind with the spin attack, it'd be kinda crazy if Saryn could do something similar like leaving Molts when she bulletjumps or something.

 

Otherwise, I kind of feel frames need a bit more uniqueness in the fundamentals of their abilities, as amazing as Exalted Blade is, it'd be less so if every frame had something similar.

[Sines314]

This isn't necessarily what I'd like to see her become, but I think it's a valid option.

 

Right now, I find you can somewhat play Frost as a Spellsword. When wielding a melee weapon, you can use his 1, 2 and 4 to supplement his melee with some magical ranged attacks. The slows and freezes help him get into melee range and just sit there while you wail on them. It works nicely, although the Snowglobe really doesn't fit with that at all.

 

Saryn could potentially be reworked for that to be intentional. Keep her poison blades, but maybe make them a bit more impressive. Let them also have a high chance to proc Corrosive or Viral on enemies. That will help her soften up targets to finish them off. Molt is just fine as it is, though little extra additions wouldn't go wrong. Miasma also works as is, though it could really be changed in any number of ways and still fit the idea.

 

Perhaps it could be a channeled ability where Saryn continuously deals damage around her. Make it (relatively) short range so that it encourages getting into melee or at least shotgun distance. It would have more power than other radial "Press 4 to Win" skills to compensate for it's short range.

 

And let her 1 be changed to something that would function for distances. Perhaps a Viral / Corrosive Status Proc with an AoE. You wouldn't kill the enemy with it, but the guaranteed proc would soften up the enemy for when you closed in on them. Maybe make her poison blade buff and this have the opposite status effects. Her 1 procs Viral (since that still did it's damage even when it wears off) and her Blades proc corrosive (since if you're hitting them you're making the most of the proc at that point). Her 1 might need to be more expensive to justify long ranged guaranteed AoE Viral proc, but I'm okay with a 50 energy 1, if it comes to that.

 

It's not the only direction she could reasonably be taken in, but as I'm rather enjoying the spell-sword style with Frost, I think I'd like to see a frame built on that idea from the ground up, and Saryn is a pretty good choice for it.

[S7ORM]

 

[OP seems kind of obsessed with adding Corrosive to everything :p]

 

You might be interested in my Saryn topic.

Whether or not you like my ideas, I welcome discussion on them and possible alternatives.

 

Honestly, that contagion ability you suggested just sounds like an exalted blade for saryn that doesn't even fit her kit, playstyle, OR theme.

She does need a rework/overhaul though.

I've heard several times that Saryn goes well with Melee, though -- personally, it's not my playstyle with her (more of a dash in, damage, dash out and heal kind of thing).

However, I like the uniqueness Warframes have, as defined by their abilities -- particularly the 4th abilities. We already have an Exalted Blade, we don't need a copy of it.

[Ixhaton]

You might be interested in my Saryn topic.

Whether or not you like my ideas, I welcome discussion on them and possible alternatives.

 

I've heard several times that Saryn goes well with Melee, though -- personally, it's not my playstyle with her (more of a dash in, damage, dash out and heal kind of thing).

However, I like the uniqueness Warframes have, as defined by their abilities -- particularly the 4th abilities. We already have an Exalted Blade, we don't need a copy of it.

Obsessed? 

Hardly.. not even close. It's about setting a theme here.

(and maybe a little fact that in high-end gameplay corrosive is kinda the way to go as far as damage management goes.)

But we don't need an EB copy?

Now.. how many abilities in this game, do you think, are copies of eachother in one way or another?

(fireball, freeze, smite, shuriken ? ) or ( overload, soundquake, WoF and molecular prime)

Yes, all copies, however with some small differences..

[Sines314]

We already have an Exalted Blade, we don't need a copy of it.

 

Agreed. We already have Valkyr and Excalibur having spells that enhance their melee. I'm in favor of a set of spells that don't enhance melee directly, but work well with a melee playstyle. Molt helps to disengage, and the healing augment works well with that. Miasma works well because it requires you to get into the thick of things. Having one ability to enhance melee is fine, but it's important that it lets you keep using the same weapon, unlike Hysteria and Exalted Blade. Maybe buff her poison blades (I like the idea of them getting high corrosive proc chance) and then just make her 1 a ranged attack designed to soften up enemies while you're closing the distance. A Viral proc would be thematic and fit well to soften enemies up.

[Soulden]

Confused.

You want for DE to find the theme they want for Saryn and rework accordingly, but not only suggest copy/paste too close to similar addition to her abilities.

 

And yes most first abilities are mostly copies, a projectile or a charge, a stance or a buff of sorts. It just get interesting after and that's what makes all frames different and flexible.

 

Not every frame is suitable for maximizing all 4 of their skills in one built.

Why is Saryn any different?

[Volinus7]

Saryn doesnt need that much work

Just add miasma 100% corrosive proc that's it

[Viedra_Lavinova]

Saryn is the one frame that actually deserves to be looked at seriously in terms of rework. Besides Mesa, but that's something else entirely... >_>