Efficiency Calculation Adjustment

[S7ORM]

Efficiency and energy are an issue.

Right now, efficiency reduces the cost of the ability directly. For a long explanation, read this:

Quote

Why "Efficiency" is Broken:

 

When I first got Streamline I assumed that 5% efficiency meant I was going to be able to cast 5% more powers before I ran out of power and that was the case, but when I had 25% "efficiency" I was casting 33.3% more powers.

 

Lets do the quick math, imagine you have 300 power, you can cast 3 powers of cost 100 each. Now with 25% Power Cost Reduction (what "efficiency" really is), your power costs 75 and you can use 4. a 33.3% increase in really efficiency.

[...]

Consider Power Strength, you need 100% to double the damage your powers do.

 

100% makes your 100 base damage power do 200 total damage but if you want to double it again, you need 300% to make your 100 base damage power do 400 total damage.

 

Compare that with "Efficiency", you need 50% to half the cost of your powers.

 

50% makes your 100 base cost power end up costing 50% power, but if you want to half it again you would only need 75% to make the same 100 base cost power end up costing 25 power.

 

In the power strenght [sic] example you needed an extra boost of twice what you already had to double your effectiveness, in fact most things on the game work like this.

 

But "Efficiency" actually only needed Half of what you already had to double its effectiveness.

[...]

A 25% Streamline  and a 50% Fleeting Expertise take you to the 75% cap and since we already know that 75% "efficiency" = 300% real efficiency and 25% "efficiency" = 33.3% real efficiency. You go from 33.3% to 300%, that's an insane jump.

 

At the same ranks a 37.5% Stretch and a 75% Overextended take you from 37.5% to 105%.

[...]

Summary:

 

Power Efficiency stat doesn't really give power efficiency, it gives reduced power cost instead.

 

100% efficiency should mean that you can get 100% more casts out of the same energy, not that you can cast infinitely.

 

Source

Instead, what it should do is increase the number of casts you can make for the same energy.
When you look in the arsenal, you see % stats for your power range, duration, strength and efficiency.
The value of efficiency there is not the value used in the calculation. The initial 100% has no meaning. Efficiency in effect goes from -55% efficiency to 75% efficiency. In effect however, with 75% efficiency, you can use a skill 4 times instead of 1 time. That's a 300% increase (400% total with the initial 100%) in ability to use that ability.

 

 

 

Current Efficiency Calculation:

BaseCost * (1 * EfficiencyModulation) = PowerCost

 

; where EfficiencyModulation refers to the decimal value of what your mods give in efficiency (i.e. max Streamline is .3)

eg. 100 * (1 * .75) = 25

 

 

That's a bit more confusing, and not as intuitive from the power stats in the arsenal.
Therefore, I propose a simpler calculation that also affects spamming of abilities.

 

 

Proposed Efficiency Calculation:

BaseCost / EfficiencyStat = PowerCost

 

; where EfficiencyStat refers to the decimal value of what the arsenal says is your Power Efficiency (i.e. max Streamline is 1.3)

eg. 100 / 1.75 = approx. 57

 

 

Basically, skills would cost a bit more, and fourth abilities wouldn't be as spammable (unless you have a supply of energy -- orbs, EV, Limbo...). It's possible that some skills would need cost tweaks because the cost-reduction-as-efficiency scheme has been in the game so long that some skills have been balanced to it (I'm considering draining skills, like Effigy).

 

In addition to this, we could see the removal of the efficiency hard cap limit -- artificially (and invisibly! There's no tooltip that says efficiency caps at 75% in the game.) restricting players is bleh -- and release Primed Streamline for those sweet, sweet ducats, both still without having ability costs being as low as currently. At max (assuming Primed Streamline would be the same as Primed Continuity and assuming an arcane helm with efficiency), efficiency could be 60+55+15=130. This calculation would give us:
100/2.3 = approx. 43.5 energy
75/2.3 = approx. 32.6 energy

50/2.3 = approx. 21.7 energy
25/2.3 = approx 10.9 energy
for the average skill costs.

Edited August 10, 2015 by S7ORM

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

Agreed completely, and I hope this thread goes better than the past attempts at asking for the same thing.

[Azamagon]

I can't say anything except: I agreed :)

[S7ORM]

Agreed completely, and I hope this thread goes better than the past attempts at asking for the same thing.

I can't say anything except: I agreed :)

Thanks.

Frankly, it'd be much simpler to understand in the arsenal, and also help deal with with the volume of energy available in the game right now (and the availability of infinite energy builds with ESiphon, and AFK with toggleable skills *CoughMesaCough*)

Additionally, we'd be able to have another shiny primed mod -- primed streamline! - without it causing as much trouble as it would right now.

Edited August 10, 2015 by S7ORM

[Tarror]

Basically you are asking for Efficiency mods to be nerfed, since they will offer much less than what it currently does. 

[(PSN)thefndodge]

Basically you are asking for Efficiency mods to be nerfed, since they will offer much less than what it currently does. 

Yes, it would be a 'nerf'. So what? It's a smart idea that makes sense to me. What about you?

 

To the OP: As much as I would like this change to happen, I just cannot see it being implemented since the efficiency system has been as it is for so long. An abrupt change like this could be considered 'rocking the boat a little too much' for most people to handle and would provoke levels of rage never before seen.

[tripletriple]

 

Efficiency and energy are an issue.

 

Edited August 10, 2015 by tripletriple

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

Efficiency and energy are an issue.

It's not an issue that our ultimates can cost as little as a normal first ability. It's not an issue that the first 50 levels of the game can be cheesed to the point that one player can four spam through a four person mission without the other three doing anything (or even being able to). It's not an issue that high levels are balanced around spamming CC and preventing anything from happening. It's not an issue that several frames are at the point that macros could do their jobs effectively and easily without the need for even basic intelligent thought to control them.

[Sakatchi]

Thats an unneeded adjustment, since efficiency mods already work like theyre supposed to. They're supposed to cut the cost of skills.

 

Just because a special mod may come out that may let you hit the cap easier, isn't any reasion to fix what isn't broken.

 

Why?

 

Well first it has to actualy come out, and that seems to be an ordeal.

Then you have to get it, not to hard if you play.

Then you have to max it, which is a bit of work

Then you have to fit it in your frame, which will take a forma or two.

And when you do all that, you'll still be at the 75% cap, which wont magicly go away by owning a primed mod.

[S7ORM]

It's not an issue that our ultimates can cost as little as a normal first ability. It's not an issue that the first 50 levels of the game can be cheesed to the point that one player can four spam through a four person mission without the other three doing anything (or even being able to). It's not an issue that high levels are balanced around spamming CC and preventing anything from happening. It's not an issue that several frames are at the point that macros could do their jobs effectively and easily without the need for even basic intelligent thought to control them.

 

 

 

Efficiency and energy are an issue.

 

 

It's not an issue that high levels are balanced around spamming CC and preventing anything from happening.

Additionally, it's not an issue with a decent team setup -- Trinity, Limbo, Nekros or Hydroid provide more than enough energy already, so even a mediocre squad will be able to spam powers regardless.

 

 

And when you do all that, you'll still be at the 75% cap, which wont magicly go away by owning a primed mod.

In addition to this, we could see the removal of the efficiency hard cap limit

 

At max (assuming Primed Streamline would be the same as Primed Continuity and assuming an arcane helm with efficiency), efficiency could be 60+55+15=130. This calculation would give us:

100/2.3 = approx. 43.5 energy

75/2.3 = approx. 32.6 energy

50/2.3 = approx. 21.7 energy

25/2.3 = approx 10.9 energy

for the average skill costs.

 

Even though you'll still be able to spam ultimates like nothing, this change would help to promote more team reliance in missions anyways -- particularly at lower levels where players don't have a maxed out Trinity.

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

Thats an unneeded adjustment, since efficiency mods already work like theyre supposed to. They're supposed to cut the cost of skills.

 

Just because a special mod may come out that may let you hit the cap easier, isn't any reasion to fix what isn't broken.

The OP already explained how efficiency mods don't work like they're suppposed to. If a damage mod offered +50% damage but only gave +5%, it would still give damage--but it wouldn't be doing what it's supposed to.

And efficiency and energy are broken.

[tripletriple]

It's not an issue that our ultimates can cost as little as a normal first ability. It's not an issue that the first 50 levels of the game can be cheesed to the point that one player can four spam through a four person mission without the other three doing anything (or even being able to). It's not an issue that high levels are balanced around spamming CC and preventing anything from happening. It's not an issue that several frames are at the point that macros could do their jobs effectively and easily without the need for even basic intelligent thought to control them.

It's not. Maybe this is not the right game for you. Warframe is based around using your abilities to decimate groups. The issue is with how weak the enemies are and how poorly designed their ai is. 

 

Energy and efficiency is fine. Maybe you and storm just need a break from warframe. 

[(PSN)inuyasha279]

It's not an issue that our ultimates can cost as little as a normal first ability.

*Nope we invested in that, just like how we can increase weapon to double or triple (in the case of secondaries) with one mod, and still have more damage based mods.*

It's not an issue that the first 50 levels of the game can be cheesed to the point that one player can four spam through a four person mission without the other three doing anything (or even being able to). *Game is centered around powers, those damage powers are useless where it matters and energy management isn't a problem without ef anyway we have trinity and siphon*

It's not an issue that high levels are balanced around spamming CC and preventing anything from happening. *that's not an eficciency problem but an infinite scaling and weak damage power problem, because the game isn't balanced around that point*

It's not an issue that several frames are at the point that macros could do their jobs effectively and easily without the need for even basic intelligent thought to control them. *Player's fault, besides you can just as easily macro for a 1 for your same 25 energy, just like with what people did with mag.*

Also this is a power strength buff right? Blind rage wouldn't be so costly.

And a serious nerf to (10 energy per sec) Chroma's effigy, (15 energy per sec) Mesa's peacemaker etc...

Abilities that cost to much energy to be practical.

Edited August 11, 2015 by (PS4)inuyasha279

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

It's not. Maybe this is not the right game for you. Warframe is based around using your abilities to decimate groups. The issue is with how weak the enemies are and how poorly designed their ai is. 

 

Energy and efficiency is fine. Maybe you and storm just need a break from warframe.

Why, then, did Steve's Viver post take the tone it did? This game certainly involves decimating groups. It shouldn't, however, allow you to do it so mindlessly.

[Volinus7]

No. If you dig into how the efficiency mechanics work you will find out that it related to the warframe energy cost design.

They're working as intended. Your proposal is pointless it cant even do a puncture proc.

Multiplied by 0.5 is the same as divided by 2

And you have to relate each ability duration (which aren't equal) not just the damage output

The "Real" efficiency is about time+cost not just cost.

You cant change the same thing to the same thing and hope that it'll reflect "Real Efficiency"

It's the job of player to calculate that himself changing multiplication to dividing wont do a thing.

About 33.3 to 300% I assume you haven't learn about logarithmic things?

Edited August 11, 2015 by Volinus7

[Carl_Bar]

I cannot honestly agree with the original post.  Firstly on a very basic level if power efficiency truly was not working as intended you can be pretty sure the devs would be all over it.

 

However that is neither here nor there, the real point is that warframe abilities are meant to be used, and as anyone who's played at the lower levels knows without a fair amount of power efficiency is highly impractical to use a majority of warframe abilities in most situations.  The energy orb drop rate just isn't high enough to sustain repeated power uses of even fairly basic powers.  This often creates situation where a player will avoid using a power to save energy for when they find themselves in a difficult situation.  This quickly leads to most warframe powers going unused the majority of the time.

 

However I would agree that the sheer degree of difference between high and low power efficiency setups is too great but that would probably require a much larger overhaul of the entire energy system.

[S7ORM]

Also this is a power strength buff right? Blind rage wouldn't be so costly.

And a serious nerf to (10 energy per sec) Chroma's effigy, (15 energy per sec) Mesa's peacemaker etc...

Abilities that cost to much energy to be practical.

This too -- With this change, "Max efficiency" builds would be less mandatory than they are now, and we might see more variation than "Fleeting+Streamline" on some warframes.

I did state in the OP that draining powers would require numeric tweaks to deal with this.

[Azamagon]

It's not. Maybe this is not the right game for you. Warframe is based around using your abilities to decimate groups. The issue is with how weak the enemies are and how poorly designed their ai is. 

 

Energy and efficiency is fine. Maybe you and storm just need a break from warframe. 

No, they are not fine.

Energy is ok-ish, efficiency is not. You go on and try to decimate groups with maxed efficiency vs without max power efficiency. Without, you NEED to spam energy plates / need an EV Trinity with you. With it maxed, you can go solo and do the same, but even more easily and endlessly. Power efficiency is FAR too good.

 

Also this is a power strength buff right? Blind rage wouldn't be so costly.

And a serious nerf to (10 energy per sec) Chroma's effigy, (15 energy per sec) Mesa's peacemaker etc...

Abilities that cost to much energy to be practical.

Adjustments to ability costs can always be made

Funnily enough, you are even stating part of the problem: If you do NOT spec max power efficiency, they energy drain on such abilities is HORRIBLE. Thus, you are FORCED to spec power efficiency to be able to do anything worthwhile with these abilities. So much for variety huh?

 

Why, then, did Steve's Viver post take the tone it did? This game certainly involves decimating groups. It shouldn't, however, allow you to do it so mindlessly.

Exactly.

 

No. If you dig into how the efficiency mechanics work you will find out that it related to the warframe energy cost design.

They're working as intended. Your proposal is pointless it cant even do a puncture proc.

Multiplied by 0.5 is the same as divided by 2

And you have to relate each ability duration (which aren't equal) not just the damage output

The "Real" efficiency is about time+cost not just cost.

You cant change the same thing to the same thing and hope that it'll reflect "Real Efficiency"

It's the job of player to calculate that himself changing multiplication to dividing wont do a thing.

About 33.3 to 300% I assume you haven't learn about logarithmic things?

They are working as intended, because they assume you are always going max efficiency (on MOST Warframes ofc, very few builds / 'frames don't need it). Which means, they seems to expect you to spec it like this, which doesn't exactly promote variety.

 

Multiplied by 0.5 gets the same result as dividing by 2, yes. So what? That's not the point. The difference, which is super-important, is how much stronger "efficiency" gets the more you stack of it (logarithmic). Nothing else works like that in this game. Everything in this game has diminishing returns, in a sense (to double something again, you need more than before). Power efficiency is the OPPOSITE. It's absurdly powerful.

 

With a change in the formula you'd have several positive changes:

* Power efficiency is not NECESSARY anymore, just good, like everything else. This bring more modding variety, and variety is always good.

* Power efficiency has diminishing returns, like all other mods in the game. That kind of consistency is always good.

* There is no need for a power efficiency cap anymore. Good for the people who (understandably) doesn't know about the efficiency cap.

* Power efficiency Arcane helmets are not as awesome. They are good, but not brokenly so.

* Abilities and their costs all are gonna need a look at in how much they cost. This is good, because we need more proper balancing anyway.

 

Probably more good things, but those all seem like good things, no?

 

I cannot honestly agree with the original post.  Firstly on a very basic level if power efficiency truly was not working as intended you can be pretty sure the devs would be all over it.

 

However that is neither here nor there, the real point is that warframe abilities are meant to be used, and as anyone who's played at the lower levels knows without a fair amount of power efficiency is highly impractical to use a majority of warframe abilities in most situations.  The energy orb drop rate just isn't high enough to sustain repeated power uses of even fairly basic powers.  This often creates situation where a player will avoid using a power to save energy for when they find themselves in a difficult situation.  This quickly leads to most warframe powers going unused the majority of the time.

 

However I would agree that the sheer degree of difference between high and low power efficiency setups is too great but that would probably require a much larger overhaul of the entire energy system.

They are not all over it, because they have designed the abilities around the fact that you have max power efficiency = without power efficiency you are gonna be total crap at casting abilities.

 

As for your paragraph 2 and 3 combined:

If abilities had lower costs from the start, and power efficiency had a lesser impact (rather than being a NECESSITY), it would reduce the necessity of power efficiency (while efficiency would still be good of course) which mainly help the NEWCOMERS, the ones that suffer most when it comes to ability useage.

Hek, I've always promoted that (on top of making power efficiency as the OP says) all Warframes should have innate energy regen. This would ALSO help the newbies and it would ALSO reduce the "necessity" of using Energy Siphon.

 

(This next thing is not directed at you Carl_Bar, but against anyone who opposes the OP)

 

In regards to powers. If we had:

1) Innate energy regen

2) A bit lower basecost on all our abilities

3) Power efficiency working as the OP stats

 

We would get, in terms of modding for powers:

1) TRUE variety

2) Easier start for the newbies

3) Less insane scaling.

 

Doesn't those 3 things sound like something this game should strive for more? Not just for power efficiency ofc, but that's what this thread is about...

Edited August 13, 2015 by Azamagon

[Volinus7]

 

In regards to powers. If we had:

1) Innate energy regen

2) A bit lower basecost on all our abilities

3) Power efficiency working as the OP stats

 

We would get, in terms of modding for powers:

1) TRUE variety

2) Easier start for the newbies

3) Less insane scaling.

 

Doesn't those 3 things sound like something this game should strive for more? Not just for power efficiency ofc, but that's what this thread is about...

 

1.No innate energy regen. You said so that everything need counter-balance.

Energy Siphon takes 1 slot. Rage+Rejuvenate take 2 slots. Maximize Efficiency takes 2 slots with negative duration.

THESE ARE COUNTER-BALANCE already. The way efficiency works right now is in balance with the requirements it demands.

No changes needed.

 

2.Easy start for newbies? No, this game is hardcore and not casual.

 

3.Scaling is hardcore and we love hardcore things. Enemies one shot kill you. Huge armor damage sponge. Nullifiers. We love them.

 

4.True Variety? or just you don't want to spend slots and duration for efficiency maximization?

[Carl_Bar]

@Azamagon: It's obvious even to a mid content guy like me that high level content just wouldn't work at all if people couldn't stack the kind of power efficiency's they do now.So no the power of heavily stacked power efficiency isn't an issue IMO. Not to mention warframe abilities are what really defines the frames from each other, nerfing power efficiency heavily would just remove that, at low to mid levels frames are very samey unless there's a power with unusually good effect to cost ratio, (iron skin being the ultimate example), because you use the powers too rarely for them to really define the frame. They more define your oh crap options, which players generally try not to get into in the first place.

 

That said there is a huge, enormous, massive, off the charts issue, with the degree to which power efficiency scales.

 

IMO they should remove all existing efficiency mods except streamline, then double the base power pool size of all frames and the energy provided by all sources and add a prime streamline to the trader for pushing the envelope and set the efficiency cap to 50%

 

This effectively gives every frame a base 50% power efficiency compared to now, with 65% with streamline and 75% with primed streamline. That makes the scaling difference of power efficiency much less severe between early and late game and doesn't F*** up the higher levels like the OP's suggestion.

[Azamagon]

1.No innate energy regen. You said so that everything need counter-balance.

Energy Siphon takes 1 slot. Rage+Rejuvenate take 2 slots. Maximize Efficiency takes 2 slots with negative duration.

THESE ARE COUNTER-BALANCE already. The way efficiency works right now is in balance with the requirements it demands.

No changes needed.

 

2.Easy start for newbies? No, this game is hardcore and not casual.

 

3.Scaling is hardcore and we love hardcore things. Enemies one shot kill you. Huge armor damage sponge. Nullifiers. We love them.

 

4.True Variety? or just you don't want to spend slots and duration for efficiency maximization?

1) Well, all of those OPTIONS then become more OPTIONAL now. They are all nice, but less necessary.

Rage = Good for ability-casting, but it requires risky play (getting hurt). Also, it's useless in current endgame unless your 'frame is ultratanky.

Energy Siphon = Good, but is not as "go to" anymore. More aura diversity is VERY welcome, imo.

Max efficiency = Not nearly as OP, and not as "go to" either. More modding diversity, yes please!

Modding for these won't make a walking nuke anymore. NOT modding for these won't make you as helpless as one would be without them.

 

2) Dude, it's one of the easiest games I've ever played, in terms of success:failure ratio. Probably so for me because I'm very interested in the game and read up a LOT on the game, knowledge is power after all. And one of those knowledges is how extremely powerful max power efficiency is.

And the difference between what a newbie and a veteran can achieve (only due to mods) is ABSURD! Better baseline, less insane scaling. That's always a healthier design. And if you really like it to be so "hardcore", this change could potentially make the current hardcore MORE hardcore...

 

3) Ehhh... I certainly don't like that, especially not the "enemies one shot kill you". That part of insane scaling makes survivability mods useless later on + is the reason endgame is all about CC and nothing else! So speak for yourself about "loving" all that.

(I have a feeling you are being very sarcastic though, no? If not, you certainly haven't seen most people's opinions on these forums...)

 

4) No, i'm not biased in these things. I want a good and healthy balance which promotes individual variety over all other things. My PERSONAL thoughts on this, if the changes were to happen? I'd probably STILL go for max efficiency, I'm just that kind of guy that likes efficiency *shrugs*

So if anything, it's more selfless, because OTHERS don't have to do that anymore.

 

To explain more thoroughly: By TRUE variety, I mean removing all the false choices. Modding for max power efficiency in regards to powers and modding for as much damage as possible (with a TINY bit of exceptions here, SOME weapon utility is good), that's what you have to go for, otherwise you are gonna be superweak and/or superslow. There is currently not much choice in modding, most of it is false choice.

 

@Azamagon

1) It's obvious even to a mid content guy like me that high level content just wouldn't work at all if people couldn't stack the kind of power efficiency's they do now.So no the power of heavily stacked power efficiency isn't an issue IMO.

 

2) Not to mention warframe abilities are what really defines the frames from each other, nerfing power efficiency heavily would just remove that, at low to mid levels frames are very samey unless there's a power with unusually good effect to cost ratio, (iron skin being the ultimate example), because you use the powers too rarely for them to really define the frame. They more define your oh crap options, which players generally try not to get into in the first place.

1) Once again, that's because endgame is ALL about CC. If we had less scaling in ALL regards (power efficiency, our weapon damage mods, enemy defense scaling), then CC (and power efficiency) wouldn't be the endgame answer. Then, flat damage abilities (like Ember's for example) could possibly be more viable in the endgame too.

 

Absurd scaling is bad design and pidgeonholes any games' endgame into a particular niche (this game being all about CC with powers and damage with weapons). That's really BORING!

 

2) With a better balancing of abilities (so no single power in a 'frames kit is all you wanna spam), innate energy regen, cheaper ability costs baseline (and thus also less reliance on power efficiency), we would see more diverse ability-casting. The only time we see diverse ability-casting is when a frame has 4 good abilities and when power efficiency is maxed. That's not how it's supposed to be, right?

Once again: Better base, less reliance on mod-scaling = More diversity, more fun.

[(PSN)inuyasha279]

@Azamagon: It's obvious even to a mid content guy like me that high level content just wouldn't work at all if people couldn't stack the kind of power efficiency's they do now.So no the power of heavily stacked power efficiency isn't an issue IMO. Not to mention warframe abilities are what really defines the frames from each other, nerfing power efficiency heavily would just remove that, at low to mid levels frames are very samey unless there's a power with unusually good effect to cost ratio, (iron skin being the ultimate example), because you use the powers too rarely for them to really define the frame. They more define your oh crap options, which players generally try not to get into in the first place.

That said there is a huge, enormous, massive, off the charts issue, with the degree to which power efficiency scales.

IMO they should remove all existing efficiency mods except streamline, then double the base power pool size of all frames and the energy provided by all sources and add a prime streamline to the trader for pushing the envelope and set the efficiency cap to 50%

This effectively gives every frame a base 50% power efficiency compared to now, with 65% with streamline and 75% with primed streamline. That makes the scaling difference of power efficiency much less severe between early and late game and doesn't F*** up the higher levels like the OP's suggestion.

you'd literally remove one mod unless your removing the ones that effect it negatively. Which would mess up power strength. And you remove two.

And higher energy does not equal efficiency.

50 eff on a 100 out of 100 equal two orbs. 0 eff on a 200 equals four.

[Carl_Bar]

You managed to completely miss the point of my second paragraph there.

 

My point is it doesn't matter what  you do with power efficiency. If you want frames to be defined by their powers as they should be your going to have to let them spam to a degree, maybe not to the extreme's certain builds can now. but still some heavy spam. Which means 4 person groups are still going to be able to produce ridiculous amounts of output power capabilities.

 

You simply cannot prevent spam and keep abilities frame defining.

 

Now lowering the difference between high and low level's, getting all powers workable from an efficiency PoV. And whacking scaling on the head i can get behind, (just making it so no mission is actually endless would help enormously).

 

you'd literally remove one mod unless your removing the ones that effect it negatively. Which would mess up power strength. And you remove two.

And higher energy does not equal efficiency. 

50 eff on a 100 out of 100 equal two orbs. 0 eff on a 200 equals four. 

 

Re-read. I said double income from all sources. So your 100 energy ultimates now take 2 orbs instead of 4 to get energy for.

 

Also yeah just the one mod. Like azamagon says that one mod is screwing over legions of powers because of the things it does to certain powers and how necessary the efficiency it grants has become. Corrupted mods as a whole are fine in concept, but only when they're effects are non-mandatory.

Edited August 14, 2015 by Carl_Bar

[(PSN)inuyasha279]

You managed to completely miss the point of my second paragraph there.

My point is it doesn't matter what you do with power efficiency. If you want frames to be defined by their powers as they should be your going to have to let them spam to a degree, maybe not to the extreme's certain builds can now. but still some heavy spam. Which means 4 person groups are still going to be able to produce ridiculous amounts of output power capabilities.

You simply cannot prevent spam and keep abilities frame defining.

Now lowering the difference between high and low level's, getting all powers workable from an efficiency PoV. And whacking scaling on the head i can get behind, (just making it so no mission is actually endless would help enormously).

Re-read. I said double income from all sources. So your 100 energy ultimates now take 2 orbs instead of 4 to get energy for.

Also yeah just the one mod. Like azamagon says that one mod is screwing over legions of powers because of the things it does to certain powers and how necessary the efficiency it grants has become. Corrupted mods as a whole are fine in concept, but only when they're effects are non-mandatory.

sorry missed that snippet about double energy orbs.

[Carl_Bar]

No worries. Made me roll my eye's good naturedly in frustration but that's about it :p.