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Archwing Mechanics (A Trip To The Docking Bay For Some Much Needed Upgrades For Quality Of Life)


Culaio
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So, again, your idea is to rip out at least one power from each Archwing and turn them into standalone weapon systems, have DE add another equipment slot to the Archwing, make models for these 'new' weapons, and, oh, you still want them to rework/buff them too. If that's not enough, you're not even making any proposals for what to fill now empty ability slots with. 

 

Consider the amount of work your asking of the developers here. What's going to give them the best results versus the time invested, everything listed above or simply focusing on getting the Archwings' powers up to snuff? No matter what, DE's time is limited. The more time and people they have tied up making an idea we had work, the less they have for other things like, say, replacing the placeholder models. 

 

 

First thing I want to mention that its just an idea and second thing is that since release of archwing last year DE had more then enough time to do this and and replace at least some of placeholder models. "rip out at least one power from each Archwing and turn them into standalone weapon systems" sounds like a lot of work but in reality we have only three archwings and if we replace one ability from each of them it would be only three abiltiies less then abilities of warframes that DE adds every few months, of course we would need to add time of creating models for those abilities that got turned into weapons but DE release new weapons(with their own unique models) even more frequently then new frames in their tenno reinforcements.

 

I do agree that DE should finally replace the placeholder models but the thing is that DE in neither replacing mode nor making archwing more interesting, thats the problem, yet they added sharkwing but we had to wait for it almost a year, and its pretty bad, hell people asked for better minimap in archwing mode  from the beginning and it looks like it will finally be released soon....almost year after release of archwing

 

 I am not saying they should do everything immediately, but they should add/change stuff in archwing mode from time to time but right now they put least effort into making it good, if they put as much effort as they do for PvP game mode archwing would be much better then its now, example few months back in devstream they shown archwing melee weapon based on tyl regor fists, tyl regor boss fight is here and yet the weapon is nowhere to be seen even though it would make the most sense to release this weapon with this boss fight.

 

 

A mounted gun would have a limited arc of fire. Since you used it as an example, consider how in Macross, most of the time many times when an ace pilot was targeted by missile barrages, they'd perform some high speed flying maneuver before transforming into robot mode and shooting the missiles seeking them, all without loosing forward momentum. Something similar would apply to tenno in a dog fight. Why perform fancy maneuvers to get behind a target to fire your 'pursuit guns' when you could just point your Imperator between your legs and fire at the Gineer dog chasing you? After all, we can sprint and look in different directions.

 
Perhaps we should consider ways to make the ability to do so balanced rather than restricting when or how you can use the gun your carrying in your hands.Maybe firing while sprinting is more inaccurate, or the a limit to how long you can shoot while sprinting. If we still had stamina I'd say shooting while sprinting would drain that in addition to the sprint drain. 
 
How about some evasive maneuvers for sprinting and aiming, mechanically similar to what we do while aiming on foot? 

 

 

To me Macross frontier mechs are good example of how switching between "hover" and "flight"(sprint) mode should look normally movement should be kinda like "Variable Fighters"(finally found out how the robot/space fighters in macross frontier are called) have in macross frontier in their "Battroid mode" while "sprinting"  should be like Variable Fighters in "fighter mode", ability to quickly switch between normal spring while maintaining momentum would make archwing game mode MUCH more interesting since archwing mode maneuverability is inferior compared to tenno on the ground thanks to parkour.

 

Also yeah technically you are right you can aim while sprinting but there is a lot of problems with the idea of using weapon normally in hand when sprinting, first and most importat is the fact that forces of extreme acceleration and deceleration because of sprinting could rip weapon out of our hands.

second problem is that all weapons including archwing weapons need to be hold in certain way to be effective and using some of them(like Imperator or grattler) would be extremly uncomfortable while being in "flying superman" pose(dunno how the pose we have while spiring with archwing is called).

third problem is that when we spring toward camera or to the left or right there is chance we will ram into somekind of object, while chance isnt the biggest in space(even though people still ram into stuff in space missions) but chance of ramming into stuff is actually already large in space ship archwing missions, sprinting while aiming behind you is suicide.

 

I must agree that archwing needs to have a lot more maneuvers including evasive ones.

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So, again, your idea is to rip out at least one power from each Archwing and turn them into standalone weapon systems, have DE add another equipment slot to the Archwing, make models for these 'new' weapons, and, oh, you still want them to rework/buff them too. If that's not enough, you're not even making any proposals for what to fill now empty ability slots with. 

 

Consider the amount of work your asking of the developers here. What's going to give them the best results versus the time invested, everything listed above or simply focusing on getting the Archwings' powers up to snuff? No matter what, DE's time is limited. The more time and people they have tied up making an idea we had work, the less they have for other things like, say, replacing the placeholder models. 

 

A mounted gun would have a limited arc of fire. Since you used it as an example, consider how in Macross, most of the time many times when an ace pilot was targeted by missile barrages, they'd perform some high speed flying maneuver before transforming into robot mode and shooting the missiles seeking them, all without loosing forward momentum. Something similar would apply to tenno in a dog fight. Why perform fancy maneuvers to get behind a target to fire your 'pursuit guns' when you could just point your Imperator between your legs and fire at the Gineer dog chasing you? After all, we can sprint and look in different directions.
 
Perhaps we should consider ways to make the ability to do so balanced rather than restricting when or how you can use the gun your carrying in your hands.Maybe firing while sprinting is more inaccurate, or the a limit to how long you can shoot while sprinting. If we still had stamina I'd say shooting while sprinting would drain that in addition to the sprint drain. 
 
How about some evasive maneuvers for sprinting and aiming, mechanically similar to what we do while aiming on foot? 

 

 

New Archwing Weapon / Utility / Sentinel Slots:

Open your mind to the possibilities, yes, we totally would be asking for larger workload with this particular concept, no different than any other new weapon they are introducing to the game. That there would be different models that get attached to the Archwing would be from an aesthetic view be a lot of the point, this would allow for some really unique looks to the Archwings, similar to how we have different helmets and attachments for the Frames but it would also provide a function in space combat. Not only that, but this extra workload for the Devs isn't a replacement, its extra items they can sell that helps their income for the game. Both sides, the Devs and Players would benefit, so I am sorry but your point of contention does not seem particularly all that big of deal in the scheme of things.

 

Sprint Thruster Combat:

You make some very good points, I too would like there to be less workload for the Devs in concepts and so I hope you will understand why I ask that you don't use that as a point of contention by assuming there would be any significant extra workload in Sprint Thruster combat mode, otherwise you come off as building a ridiculous strawman out of a valid concern. A fixed forward firing, which engaging thrusters already kinda does as we fly towards where we aim, would simply be asking that the weapon is held fixed forward against the chest with two super ninja arms instead of down by the side, the thigh IIRC, with one arm of the Frame flying in the Archwing. There really shouldn't be a different model with that, just a touch of animation work and would that really be so bad?

 

I agree firing while Sprint Thrusters are engaged should be more inaccurate. For now though, let's assume the status quo on sprinting taking fuel / stamina, its gone, so more inaccurate fire should be our go to limitation to Thruster Combat.

 

Hover Combat:

Switching back to Hover mode by letting off Shift and disengaging Thrusters to shoot down incoming missiles that are behind you while maintaining some of the momentum vector of the Thruster combat would be awesome! That's a great idea Crash. But probably wouldn't be needed if we just use our Anti-Missile abilities on the Archwings. But if the inaccurate fire of Sprint Thrusters stands as a point of balance, then switching back to Hover combat to be more accurate in your weapon fire would be the whole point and the momentum could be another challenge or advantage depending on the situation the pilot finds themselves in, which is what would make it so fun :)

 

Better evasive maneuvers is also an excellent point and having a Parkour 2.0 (let's call it Piloting 2.0) for Archwing would be great and in many ways, is a pretty key point of why this thread is important, next to new slots as options for that pilot to customize and utilize in Archwing combat.

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First thing I want to mention that its just an idea and second thing is that since release of archwing last year DE had more then enough time to do this and and replace at least some of placeholder models. "rip out at least one power from each Archwing and turn them into standalone weapon systems" sounds like a lot of work but in reality we have only three archwings and if we replace one ability from each of them it would be only three abiltiies less then abilities of warframes that DE adds every few months, of course we would need to add time of creating models for those abilities that got turned into weapons but DE release new weapons(with their own unique models) even more frequently then new frames in their tenno reinforcements.

 

I do agree that DE should finally replace the placeholder models but the thing is that DE in neither replacing mode nor making archwing more interesting, thats the problem, yet they added sharkwing but we had to wait for it almost a year, and its pretty bad, hell people asked for better minimap in archwing mode  from the beginning and it looks like it will finally be released soon....almost year after release of archwing

 

 I am not saying they should do everything immediately, but they should add/change stuff in archwing mode from time to time but right now they put least effort into making it good, if they put as much effort as they do for PvP game mode archwing would be much better then its now, example few months back in devstream they shown archwing melee weapon based on tyl regor fists, tyl regor boss fight is here and yet the weapon is nowhere to be seen even though it would make the most sense to release this weapon with this boss fight.

 

More than enough time? Oh yeah, if they weren't working on a lot of other stuff too. But they have been working on other stuff, stuff that they probably had brewing for longer than the Archwing was even conceptualized. They're going to put less time into working on archwing stuff because it influences and is influenced by a much smaller amount of the game. Despite that, the archwing came out swinging in a big way. U15, which gave us our wings, launched October last year and the incremental hotfixes and updates of U15, which, surprise, had a lot of archwing in it, lasted all the way into May. The Eyes of Blight event was in December, shortly after the Itzal archwing dropped. We got the Odonata Prime in march. The submersible archwing missions (*sings under the sea*) and Grattler dropped in July. 

 

Yes, more archwing stuff has been sporadic since the U15 update cycle ended but it has been there, and you must remember the Archwing is a very small part of the game and it has to compete with other much more entrenched areas and any new projects they have (katbrows!) for the developers' time. Finally, you have to remember, just because we aren't seeing the fruits of their labor or hearing about it in the devstream doesn't mean there's nothing being done on that front. 

 

 

That aside. Once again you're talking about striping out abilities without offering alternatives for those ability slots. You want to make Seeking Fire a weapon that fits into a new weapon slot? Give options for what the Odonata is getting in place of that ability. We need ideas for those replacement abilities.

 

 

New Archwing Weapon / Utility / Sentinel Slots:

Open your mind to the possibilities, yes, we totally would be asking for larger workload with this particular concept, no different than any other new weapon they are introducing to the game. That there would be different models that get attached to the Archwing would be from an aesthetic view be a lot of the point, this would allow for some really unique looks to the Archwings, similar to how we have different helmets and attachments for the Frames but it would also provide a function in space combat. Not only that, but this extra workload for the Devs isn't a replacement, its extra items they can sell that helps their income for the game. Both sides, the Devs and Players would benefit, so I am sorry but your point of contention does not seem particularly all that big of deal in the scheme of things.

 

 

No different beside being entirely new weapon slots being added to the archwing. /sarcasm 

 

I feel I have to point out the way the archwing and its equipment is a ... self contained unit -not sure if that's getting across what I want it too- it and all its gear can be detached or attached to the tenno as needed (see submersible missions as well as the start and end of standard archwing missions), weapons are neatly stored directly on the archwings, ect, ect.

 

Things like shoulder missile pods, while undeniably cool, would need to be worked into a way for them to attach to the archwing when not deployed. I'd say hey, just strap them onto the harness, but the harness of each archwing has a vastly different profiles and sizes.The only thing I can come up with is having them either mount of the front top of the wing pods (which has its own problems I bet), or on an extra arms attached to the harness that fold out when the archwing deployed /collapse against the harness as the archwing is stowed. Again, I'm not sure if I'm explaining what i'm thinking well enough here.

 

This is the same reason I brought up kubrows as a reason that archwings don't have a companion slot, not all of the companions can follow through a transition to archwing combat and make sense. It'd make sense for the sentinels to be able to follow through transitions, but that would make them [even] more versatile and useful than the kubrows and likely the upcoming catbrows. (-- Oh god, are we going to have to farm up catbrow mods too. Please let us just use the Kubrow mods.) Anyway, it's easier to just say no to companions altogether in archwing stuff than try to balnce things or put space suits on our dogs. I don't particularly care for it, but there we go.

 

--// 

Alright derailing a bit from what we've been going on about for the last few posts, I just recently played some of the Uranus submersible missions for the first time. I was using an under-equipped Banshee and got pretty banged up throughout the mission. 

 

Anyway, While you guys have offered some ideas on how to make the choice of warframe more important for archwing play, I don't think (correct me if i'm wrong here) you guys covered this. So When I hopped through a on foot to archwing transition (which I did several times while *@##$ing about the archwing some out of no where) I noticed that my health, which was at ... 30 something (~10% my banshee's overall health) was changing to the same overal percentage of the Archwing's health. so damage I had taken on foot was transitioning over to my archwing. I sort of like this idea, but not it's execution.

 

My choice of Warframe doesn't impact the amount of health, shield, so on and so forth that I have in the Archwing. I get only the base stats of the archwing and what ever modifiers I've installed in the archwing. the warframe doesn't enter into the equation. 

 

So why is my archwing missing health? I mean, even if My warframe's stats mattered, Like say the health value equaled Warframe+Archwing hp, it wouldn't make sence for me to have only 10% of my total hp when I transitioned. The archwing didn't take any damage, only the warframe did. Using the example and the above formula. Let's say my Banshee had 300hp, the Archwing 700hp. If my Banshe was wittled down to 30hp, when the archwing connects, my overall hp should be 730, not 100. -- Of course, this even isn't true since in game right now I'd end up with 70 hp. 

 

 

In case it's not clear by now, I think the Archwing play should be using combined stats of the Warframe and Archwing. The problem we had initially was that only some of the stats and some of the mods were carrying over to the arch wing, not all of them. In fact, so there's no confusion on the matter, here's what I mean:

 

Health        (Warframe stat + Warframe mod) + (Archwing stat + Archwing mods)

Shields      (Warframe stat + Warframe mod) + (Archwing stat + Archwing mods)

Armor        (Warframe stat + Warframe mod) + (Archwing stat + Archwing mods)

Power       (Warframe stat + Warframe mod) + (Archwing stat + Archwing mods)

Speed       (Warframe stat + Warframe mod) x (Archwing stat + Archwing mods)

 

Having the Warframe's speed be a multiple instead of the same additive formula is to maintain pretty similar speeds to what we have right now. An Excalibur w/ archwing wouldn't be any faster than the archwings are now, a Rhino would be slower, and a Loki would be notably faster. This along with the warframe's power being important for balancing each frame's usefulness as an archwing pilot compared to what we experience initially. 

 

But we both(all) know certain warframes have rather low stats that are generally made up for in their power selection or such. That's where the passive bonuses mentioned earlier in this thread would come in handy, these warframes would simply have better or more valuable passives. 

 

Another idea that comes to mind, that'd likely be a nightmare to implement, is having a single power from the warframe available while in the archwing. If each archwing only had three powers (having had one sacrificed to make those secondary weapons) this would be a great way filling that void while making the warwframe selection important.

 

Thoughts?

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I feel I have to point out the way the archwing and its equipment is a ... self contained unit -not sure if that's getting across what I want it too- it and all its gear can be detached or attached to the tenno as needed (see submersible missions as well as the start and end of standard archwing missions), weapons are neatly stored directly on the archwings, ect, ect.

 

Things like shoulder missile pods, while undeniably cool, would need to be worked into a way for them to attach to the archwing when not deployed. I'd say hey, just strap them onto the harness, but the harness of each archwing has a vastly different profiles and sizes.The only thing I can come up with is having them either mount of the front top of the wing pods (which has its own problems I bet), or on an extra arms attached to the harness that fold out when the archwing deployed /collapse against the harness as the archwing is stowed. Again, I'm not sure if I'm explaining what i'm thinking well enough here.

 

This is the same reason I brought up kubrows as a reason that archwings don't have a companion slot, not all of the companions can follow through a transition to archwing combat and make sense. It'd make sense for the sentinels to be able to follow through transitions, but that would make them [even] more versatile and useful than the kubrows and likely the upcoming catbrows. (-- Oh god, are we going to have to farm up catbrow mods too. Please let us just use the Kubrow mods.) Anyway, it's easier to just say no to companions altogether in archwing stuff than try to balnce things or put space suits on our dogs. I don't particularly care for it, but there we go.

 

Despite my lack of appreciation for mockery/sarcasm in this case, I do think you make some good points because my thoughts on the matter aren't really all that different, when I was thinking of the new slots on the Archwing, I wasn't thinking of them as something that was not neatly stored on the Archwing as well. On some part of the Harness? Good. Sitting on some part of a Wings or Systems? Great. I wasn't imagining some honking huge piece of kit either, just some modular section with an appropriate model according to DE's own art standards, unless honking huge is what they want *shrugs*

 

You are explaining just fine and I hope we can both realize on this point we are in agreement. Especially in that it be cool ;)

 

Also, I am not all that concerned in making Sentinels more valuable than Kubrow/Catbrow in this respect, those beasts are already masters of ground combat, let the sentinels have the skies. Because really, I think you are off on your estimation that Sentinels are the winner in the companion department for the Frames (I could go into excruciating detail but this thread doesn't seem like the right place for that), so I don't think the Sentinels harm the value of the Kubrow/Catbrow at all by being able to strap on and plug in to the Systems of an Archwing as an assistant among in the atmosphere, oceans, and stars.

 

Think of it like R2-D2 slotting in behind Luke in his X-Wing to help out.

 

 

In case it's not clear by now, I think the Archwing play should be using combined stats of the Warframe and Archwing. The problem we had initially was that only some of the stats and some of the mods were carrying over to the arch wing, not all of them. In fact, so there's no confusion on the matter, here's what I mean:

 

Health        (Warframe stat + Warframe mod) + (Archwing stat + Archwing mods)

Shields      (Warframe stat + Warframe mod) + (Archwing stat + Archwing mods)

Armor        (Warframe stat + Warframe mod) + (Archwing stat + Archwing mods)

Power       (Warframe stat + Warframe mod) + (Archwing stat + Archwing mods)

Speed       (Warframe stat + Warframe mod) x (Archwing stat + Archwing mods)

 

Having the Warframe's speed be a multiple instead of the same additive formula is to maintain pretty similar speeds to what we have right now. An Excalibur w/ archwing wouldn't be any faster than the archwings are now, a Rhino would be slower, and a Loki would be notably faster. This along with the warframe's power being important for balancing each frame's usefulness as an archwing pilot compared to what we experience initially. 

 

But we both(all) know certain warframes have rather low stats that are generally made up for in their power selection or such. That's where the passive bonuses mentioned earlier in this thread would come in handy, these warframes would simply have better or more valuable passives. 

 

Another idea that comes to mind, that'd likely be a nightmare to implement, is having a single power from the warframe available while in the archwing. If each archwing only had three powers (having had one sacrificed to make those secondary weapons) this would be a great way filling that void while making the warwframe selection important.

 

Thoughts?

 

Hmm, while I don't think you need to sacrifice any abilities for secondary weapons, I think the scale of balance in Archwing precludes using any Frame abilities viably or you end up with a total mess of a situation where balancing an ability for Ground game means having it too weak in Wing game and having it of a sufficient range / power in the Wing game means having it overpowering in the Ground game. So could we rule that out as option, please? Keep Archwing and Frame abilities separate.

 

And while your proposal for a better stat stack to the Archwing does make sense in theory, I think in practice it means a rewrite of how Warframe checks for the stats for its Frames since its using more than just base values and we just run into the problem of only a few particular frames being used as pilots all over again. The connection does need to be there, it just needs to be there in such a way that it doesn't make an overwhelming case for a dominant "you have to pick this Frame for your pilot or you are a noob" play styles. Given how some Frames clearly would have stats that suit Archwings speedy and powerful ability gameplay with already high base armor, hp, and shield stats, its not hard to picture a set of dominant pilot Frames emerging.

 

I think its better to instead address the issue as one of perhaps suggesting DE treat the transition to Archwing not as a percentage but rather as an addition/subtraction by showing a threshold (a line on the Archwing hp) where if you leave your Archwing below a particular hp, you will end up deposited on your back outside the water needing a pick up from a squad mate.

 

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More than enough time? Oh yeah, if they weren't working on a lot of other stuff too. But they have been working on other stuff, stuff that they probably had brewing for longer than the Archwing was even conceptualized. They're going to put less time into working on archwing stuff because it influences and is influenced by a much smaller amount of the game. Despite that, the archwing came out swinging in a big way. U15, which gave us our wings, launched October last year and the incremental hotfixes and updates of U15, which, surprise, had a lot of archwing in it, lasted all the way into May. The Eyes of Blight event was in December, shortly after the Itzal archwing dropped. We got the Odonata Prime in march. The submersible archwing missions (*sings under the sea*) and Grattler dropped in July. 

 

Yes, more archwing stuff has been sporadic since the U15 update cycle ended but it has been there, and you must remember the Archwing is a very small part of the game and it has to compete with other much more entrenched areas and any new projects they have (katbrows!) for the developers' time. Finally, you have to remember, just because we aren't seeing the fruits of their labor or hearing about it in the devstream doesn't mean there's nothing being done on that front. 

 

 

That aside. Once again you're talking about striping out abilities without offering alternatives for those ability slots. You want to make Seeking Fire a weapon that fits into a new weapon slot? Give options for what the Odonata is getting in place of that ability. We need ideas for those replacement abilities.

 

 

Compared to that main game had added since that time multiple frames, mods(including augments) many weapons, multiple primes,  and since that time we had few events ald tactical alerts. I understand that ground missions are focus of the game but the problem is that even PvP is getting updates more frequnetly then archwing game mode, PvP gets updates pretty frequently, stuff like mods and tweaks to frames and weapons for PvP(it gets updates pretty regularly) the thing is that  warframe is first and foremostly PvE game, ground missions should be main focus, archwing should take second place and PvP third place.

Yes I know archwing is right now just small part of game, but it isnt supposed to be just that, its supposed to be something much more important and integral part of game until DE makes it just that they wont earn any money on this game mode, since right now they cant add slots for archwings and archwing weapons because of lack of content. Actually it does earn them some money but only thanks to frustrated players, someone buyed from me around 20 archwing mods for 10plat each... 

Also I am not saying that they should do big changes immediately, me and other people would be fine waiting for big changes if DE at least taken care of small things like too small gain of affinity in archwing game mode or drop rate of archwing mods(the fact someone was willing to pay 10plat per mod as I mentioned above shows how annoying it can be to get the mods), or how hard it can be to get parts of eltron or archwing weapons

DE should give all archwings strong "vacuum" ability until better solution is found, since gathering loot in archwing mode can be annoying as hell, right now only way to gather all loot is to use itzal and spam cosmic crush.

 

I didnt mention alternative, because I didnt have any idea's yet but I am sure other people can come up with something, since people post ideas for rework of abilties of most of frames pretty frequently and only reason why same doesnt happen for archwing is because how unpopular is thisg ame mode.

But most people agree that onodata(onodata is bad archwing and its prime version isnt good its just less bad) and  elytron need rework of abilities because their abilities have pretty bad synergy, only really good archwing is itzal, three out of its four abilities are really useful:

-blink is good for dodging missiles and enemy formations and makes reaching teammates who need reviving much easier, also helps  reposition yourself in combat quickly .

-Penumbra makes reviving teammates much easier, holding possition while gunning down enemies  is extremly easy, and also this abiltiy synergises with blink since you can blink while remaning invisible

-Cosmic Crush - pull in enemies and quickly eleminate them with melee weapon, It has synergy with blink and penumbra: Go invisible, blink into enemy lines, use pull, then melee for massive stealth damage bonus. Plus it pulls all the loot to you, how many birds are we knocking with this stone. Even if you don't melee, pull, blink out quickly, fluctus aoe kill many targets, or spray your imperator.

 

Only ability of itzal with bad synergy is ironically its "drones"(Fighter Escort): they dont "blink" with you and they dont shot when invisible, and they dont attack when sprinting, and since you use blink and penumbra a LOT when you use Itzal archwing this makes this ability pretty much completly useless, only good this about is that it kinda looks cool. So I believe people wouldnt mind if it was replaced with something that is actually useful. and drones would be reworked into weapon.

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Only ability of itzal with bad synergy is ironically its "drones"(Fighter Escort): they dont "blink" with you and they dont shot when invisible, and they dont attack when sprinting, and since you use blink and penumbra a LOT when you use Itzal archwing this makes this ability pretty much completly useless, only good this about is that it kinda looks cool. So I believe people wouldnt mind if it was replaced with something that is actually useful. and drones would be reworked into weapon.

Actually, if they don't blink, that's the one biggest issue they have.

 

See, I started actually using them and found they were a lot less useless than I had thought...

 

...if you don't assume they're meant to be effective weapons. Their best use by far? Bait. Fast-moving bait that harasses enemies and slowly needles the things you're not shooting at. Have the drones up, and more often than not, enemies try to shoot them before they try to shoot you; if you can't focus on the other enemies, having them not focus fire lets you do something like capture a point or revive an ally.

 

Shooting when invisible would defeat the purpose. Not attacking while sprinting is probably because they don't move fast enough - that could use a tweak. They should keep up with you no matter what you're doing. But they're not useless.

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Actually, if they don't blink, that's the one biggest issue they have.

 

See, I started actually using them and found they were a lot less useless than I had thought...

 

...if you don't assume they're meant to be effective weapons. Their best use by far? Bait. Fast-moving bait that harasses enemies and slowly needles the things you're not shooting at. Have the drones up, and more often than not, enemies try to shoot them before they try to shoot you; if you can't focus on the other enemies, having them not focus fire lets you do something like capture a point or revive an ally.

 

Shooting when invisible would defeat the purpose. Not attacking while sprinting is probably because they don't move fast enough - that could use a tweak. They should keep up with you no matter what you're doing. But they're not useless.

 

Actually it has more problems, for example drones require line of sight for targeting acquisition, so for example they wont attack Hellion Dargyn

 that is coming behind you to shot you in the back with its missiles, its very unreliable protection and is completly unnecessary since you can simply go invisible and kill all enemies without any real danger
 
The thing is that both you are your teammates can shot while invisible so there is no reason why drones couldnt
 

In case it's not clear by now, I think the Archwing play should be using combined stats of the Warframe and Archwing. The problem we had initially was that only some of the stats and some of the mods were carrying over to the arch wing, not all of them. In fact, so there's no confusion on the matter, here's what I mean:

 

Health        (Warframe stat + Warframe mod) + (Archwing stat + Archwing mods)

Shields      (Warframe stat + Warframe mod) + (Archwing stat + Archwing mods)

Armor        (Warframe stat + Warframe mod) + (Archwing stat + Archwing mods)

Power       (Warframe stat + Warframe mod) + (Archwing stat + Archwing mods)

Speed       (Warframe stat + Warframe mod) x (Archwing stat + Archwing mods)

 

Having the Warframe's speed be a multiple instead of the same additive formula is to maintain pretty similar speeds to what we have right now. An Excalibur w/ archwing wouldn't be any faster than the archwings are now, a Rhino would be slower, and a Loki would be notably faster. This along with the warframe's power being important for balancing each frame's usefulness as an archwing pilot compared to what we experience initially. 

 

But we both(all) know certain warframes have rather low stats that are generally made up for in their power selection or such. That's where the passive bonuses mentioned earlier in this thread would come in handy, these warframes would simply have better or more valuable passives. 

 

Another idea that comes to mind, that'd likely be a nightmare to implement, is having a single power from the warframe available while in the archwing. If each archwing only had three powers (having had one sacrificed to make those secondary weapons) this would be a great way filling that void while making the warwframe selection important.

 

Thoughts?

 

 

I really like your idea, and in theory it would be make sense but in practice there few problems with it that would be hard to overcome, for example:

-speed - because of player mentality, slow guys would always be left behind like its already  happening in main game(and it does already happening in archwing mode but your idea would increase the problem), with only difference is that in main game you can compensate lack of speed with parkour skills, something that archwing game mode doesnt have, so untill we have means to boost our speed beyond basic speed of archwing its bad idea.

-ability from frame accessible in archwing mode - would me AWESOME but I am pretty sure it wont happen, reason  why "sharkwing" happen even though originally DE planed to give us option to swim with our frames is because DE realized that they would have to rework MOST of frame abilties for underwater use, both gameplay wise and realism, for example game play reason: some abilities need surface to work(like ice wave), realism reason: all frost abilties would either work differently underwater or be ineffective: "freeze" would freeze water in front of you.

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Despite my lack of appreciation for mockery/sarcasm in this case, I do think you make some good points because my thoughts on the matter aren't really all that different, when I was thinking of the new slots on the Archwing, I wasn't thinking of them as something that was not neatly stored on the Archwing as well. On some part of the Harness? Good. Sitting on some part of a Wings or Systems? Great. I wasn't imagining some honking huge piece of kit either, just some modular section with an appropriate model according to DE's own art standards, unless honking huge is what they want *shrugs*

 

You are explaining just fine and I hope we can both realize on this point we are in agreement. Especially in that it be cool ;)

 

Also, I am not all that concerned in making Sentinels more valuable than Kubrow/Catbrow in this respect, those beasts are already masters of ground combat, let the sentinels have the skies. Because really, I think you are off on your estimation that Sentinels are the winner in the companion department for the Frames (I could go into excruciating detail but this thread doesn't seem like the right place for that), so I don't think the Sentinels harm the value of the Kubrow/Catbrow at all by being able to strap on and plug in to the Systems of an Archwing as an assistant among in the atmosphere, oceans, and stars.

 

Think of it like R2-D2 slotting in behind Luke in his X-Wing to help out.

 

 

 

Hmm, while I don't think you need to sacrifice any abilities for secondary weapons, I think the scale of balance in Archwing precludes using any Frame abilities viably or you end up with a total mess of a situation where balancing an ability for Ground game means having it too weak in Wing game and having it of a sufficient range / power in the Wing game means having it overpowering in the Ground game. So could we rule that out as option, please? Keep Archwing and Frame abilities separate.

 

And while your proposal for a better stat stack to the Archwing does make sense in theory, I think in practice it means a rewrite of how Warframe checks for the stats for its Frames since its using more than just base values and we just run into the problem of only a few particular frames being used as pilots all over again. The connection does need to be there, it just needs to be there in such a way that it doesn't make an overwhelming case for a dominant "you have to pick this Frame for your pilot or you are a noob" play styles. Given how some Frames clearly would have stats that suit Archwings speedy and powerful ability gameplay with already high base armor, hp, and shield stats, its not hard to picture a set of dominant pilot Frames emerging.

 

I think its better to instead address the issue as one of perhaps suggesting DE treat the transition to Archwing not as a percentage but rather as an addition/subtraction by showing a threshold (a line on the Archwing hp) where if you leave your Archwing below a particular hp, you will end up deposited on your back outside the water needing a pick up from a squad mate.

 

====|===========

 

- Culaio is the one who keeps going on about ripping out an ability from each frame to make a new weapon. Since he's continually not give any consideration to replacement powers, I'm suggesting we'd use those open slots to make the choice of warframe more integrated. One of the warframe's powers transitions over to the archwing filling the void that Culaio won't even attempt to fill.

 

- With sentinels, I'd want them to remain separate from the archwing, functioned identically to as they do in infantry action. they already posses pretty good utility all around and besides making sure they're able to keep up, it'd be a lot less work on DE then making them into glorified astromech driods. Now, a sentinel mod that lets them repair your archwing with laser beams ... that'd be a nice addition.

 

- I'm pretty sure we could make every warframe an effective pilot with such a mechanism. There's few that's going to be blatantly bad pilots just by focusing on their attributes. Casters with big energy pools will be capable of throwing around abilities more often, Speedsters like Loki would be great for fast response action, tanks like Rhino and Valkyr would be immovable objects when it came to defending locations, more average units like Excalibur would be great all rounders. If we find certain warframes are being gravitated towards for archwing, well, there's always the earlier passive bonuses idea we can use to tilt the balance into a more level direction.

 

- Eh, I'd have the archwing's health pool be depleted first during those segments... or workout some way of having a fair division of damage. If the pilot's taken enough damage that he'd going to be bleeding out, it doesn't matter how intact the vehicle is, he'd be effectively mission killed. 

 

 

 

Compared to that main game had added since that time multiple frames, mods(including augments) many weapons, multiple primes,  and since that time we had few events ald tactical alerts. I understand that ground missions are focus of the game but the problem is that even PvP is getting updates more frequnetly then archwing game mode, PvP gets updates pretty frequently, stuff like mods and tweaks to frames and weapons for PvP(it gets updates pretty regularly) the thing is that  warframe is first and foremostly PvE game, ground missions should be main focus, archwing should take second place and PvP third place.

 

Dude, proofread? double space? We're getting a bit hard to read here, just saying.

 

 PvP itself has been around since update 8, its been there for a long time. Despite that, it's only in the past year that its been really getting updated regularly. And its only really getting a lot of updates right now because there's a focus on it. Newly added game modes are making it easier to get into and more popular. Add to that that they just 'recently' decided best way to balance for pvp was to make pvp exclusive mods. There's a lot of ground they need to cover there and they can produce mods fairly quickly. They limited the pvp arsenal, disallowing certain frames and weapons until they got around to doing pvp balancing for them. They're playing catch up with their arsenal backlog and constantly working on hitting a good balance.

 

The need to find that solid balance is honestly why I'm not surprised pvp is getting consistent updates. Balance is that important for the game type. Whats a good time to kill? Are all the arsenal choices available to the player balanced? 

 

I expect that once they get the arsenal up to par for pvp we're only going to be seeing new game modes and maps for PvP content additions but almost every update is going to continue to have balance tweaks for it. that's normal

 

So why is pvp seeming to rank higher on DE's to-do-list? well, for one as I just said, there's a focus on it. people are getting in and playing it a fair amount. updating pvp at the moment is easier and faster than Archwing, we're either getting pvp mods, balance changes, or more stuff from the arsenal added. None of that requires the art team. Hell, only the mods need any conceptualizing. 

 

Yes I know archwing is right now just small part of game, but it isnt supposed to be just that, its supposed to be something much more important and integral part of game until DE makes it just that they wont earn any money on this game mode, since right now they cant add slots for archwings and archwing weapons because of lack of content. Actually it does earn them some money but only thanks to frustrated players, someone buyed from me around 20 archwing mods for 10plat each... 

Also I am not saying that they should do big changes immediately, me and other people would be fine waiting for big changes if DE at least taken care of small things like too small gain of affinity in archwing game mode or drop rate of archwing mods(the fact someone was willing to pay 10plat per mod as I mentioned above shows how annoying it can be to get the mods), or how hard it can be to get parts of eltron or archwing weapons

DE should give all archwings strong "vacuum" ability until better solution is found, since gathering loot in archwing mode can be annoying as hell, right now only way to gather all loot is to use itzal and spam cosmic crush.

 

10 plat per mod isn't all that strange.

 

I'm going to go ahead and point at Uranus' submersible missions. You're complaining that they're not integrating archwing but right there you can see that they're trying, that they are moving towards that goal. Let me say this again: archwing is new. DE hasn't hit its stride with working on archwing stuff, they haven't spent god knows how many years working on it, it's not a familiar place so they are going to move slowly. Them waters are treacherous, and its not because of the sea life. 

 

 

I really like your idea, and in theory it would be make sense but in practice there few problems with it that would be hard to overcome, for example:

-speed - because of player mentality, slow guys would always be left behind like its already  happening in main game(and it does already happening in archwing mode but your idea would increase the problem), with only difference is that in main game you can compensate lack of speed with parkour skills, something that archwing game mode doesnt have, so untill we have means to boost our speed beyond basic speed of archwing its bad idea.

-ability from frame accessible in archwing mode - would me AWESOME but I am pretty sure it wont happen, reason  why "sharkwing" happen even though originally DE planed to give us option to swim with our frames is because DE realized that they would have to rework MOST of frame abilties for underwater use, both gameplay wise and realism, for example game play reason: some abilities need surface to work(like ice wave), realism reason: all frost abilties would either work differently underwater or be ineffective: "freeze" would freeze water in front of you.

 

Remember how Rhino was the king of archwing when it first came out? That's because of he was stupid durable. But if you factor speed into the equation, he's one of the slowest frames in the game. That's good balance. 

 

Comparatively, I think our biggest problem as 'best pilot' would be Valkyr. She was a popular pilot before because of her durability, but she's also in the top half speed wise with a 1.1 sprint speed. The big draw back is the lack of a strong shield, which could be patched over a bit with the archwing's decent shields. 

 

--// Warframe Abilities on Archwing

I'm pretty sure there's at least one ability that mechanically won't be hard to modify for Archwing use. Lore reasons though, well we can always blame it on space magic. Lets see:

 

You brought up Frost, so lets start there. Snow Globe. He's slow and durable. A tank, but not nearly as tanky as say Rhino or Valkyr without a defense ability to help him out. Really, he's probably one of the easiest to figure.

 

On the opposite end of the elemental spectrum is Ember. She should be hard to explain, but not really. Give her her fireball, claim she's throwing balls of plasma and be done with it. 

 

Zephyr is one of the harder ones, after all, she's air focused and there's no air in space. I'd personally go with Tailwind. We're stepping on Blink with this but there's really little choice to be had. The only other mechanically sound ability would be turbulence and that makes less sense to fucntional in space. Twister would be awesome underwater.  

 

Hydriod ... I have no idea. Where does the water come from any how? space magic! 

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@CrashLegacy14

Its not that I want removal of this abilties I actually would fine if they stayed and just got fixed, but what me and many people want is mecha-like weapons, like shoulder cannon/s, missile pods, drones and so on, Its DE fault people want this since they promoted archwing would be  mecha-like space combat(without mechs of course).

Reason I talked about removal was because you said that weapons like that would draw away from abilities like seeking fire or fighter escort,  I wouldnt mind those abitlies if they got buffed but if I had to choose between keeping those abilites but not having those weapon or removing abilities but geting the weapon I would choose weapons every single time and I know many people would do same. option to give any archwing mecha-like weapons is that important to me, it would make more archwings viable to me since even if archwing isnt best as long as I can take awesome weapon  I am good.

 

Technically sentienls floating normally is fine but  archwing game mode needs stuff that will make it unique and making sentinels like that would cool and unique :), and that actually needs less effort then alternative which is makiing unique companions for archwing game mode.

 

Sorry for not proofreading I wanted to quickly post and forgot to check what I writen, also english isnt my first language.

 

I know PvP was here for a while but that doesnt change the fact that warframe is first and foremostly PvE game, actually origianlly DE didnt even want to add PvP but some people asked for and they eventually given in, there were also many people against PvP since in many people PvP brings out the worst, which I experianced in warframe PvP, being called cheater even though I didnt use any cheats  then he blocked me before I could tell him I wasnt cheating.

Actually more people were excited for archwing then for PvP. 

DE isnt putting effort into making PvP better because it was popular, its oposite its popular now because DE put effort into making it better, If you asked people what DE should focus on(PvP or archwing) before PvP 2.0 come more people would told you focus on archwing.

 

If DE wont sacrifce some of time that its using for main game and pvp then archwing will never become popular , current update rate is really bad, actually bringing sharkwing without fixing many of archwing problems can only increase amount of people hating it. since there is nothing great about being forced to play broken game mode. Yes I am pretty strong in archwing game mode and dont have problems with sharkwing, but to reach this place I sacrifced a lot of time, I had to ignore  void trader and earning ducats for a long while, Experianced players didnt have this problem but for pretty new players it is a problem. Actually if I was forced to play uranus with archwing I just got I would probably exremly frustrated.

 

10plat for mod is strange if someone is willing that much for even common mod, in main game most of common and uncommon mods can be buyed for 1plat...

 

archwing isnt that new its getting close to a year since its release, its about time for HUGE changes to archwing should start happening, we need a lot more content especially more mission types.

 

I undersand what you mean, but the thing is that it will limit some frames to some mission types, for example only bring rhino for interception because for everything else its too slow, unless you want to be the guy who is left behind by the team.

 

There is one more problem: players, many players care a LOT about how they look, frequently care more about how they look then stats, look at original arcane helmets, people were unhappy that they were "forced" to wear certain helmet for maximum efficency, we would have similar situation here in some missions if you wanted to achieve maximum efficency you would be "forced" to use certain warframes, people asked DE to remove stat bonues from helmets just so they could use any helmet they want there is pretty big chance they would do same thing with frames if they were affecting stats in archwing.

(by the way I am not agreeing with them I am just saying how some people are, personally I am disappointed that I dont have any of original arcane helmets)

Edited by Culaio
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You know what I think would be a good substitute for Seeking Fire, if ever we got heavy weapons separate?

 

A movement ability. Lack of mobility is what holds back Odonata and Elytron. If they could send engines into overdrive, that would make them far better. So, just now I thought of mobility abilities for the two slow archwings.

 

Odonata: Simple dash forward that possibly launches missiles or stuns/debuffs accuracy in its wake; turns the shield into a charging wall of force if active, for synergy. Basically charge with some utility.

 

Elytron: Core Vent becomes a powerful "overdrive" boost ability (like a burst of nitrous); the trail of particles damages enemies caught in it.

 

Itzal is fine, but I wish Penumbra were an auto toggle that turned back on whenever you stopped moving instead of forcing a recast.

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You know what I think would be a good substitute for Seeking Fire, if ever we got heavy weapons separate?

 

A movement ability. Lack of mobility is what holds back Odonata and Elytron. If they could send engines into overdrive, that would make them far better. So, just now I thought of mobility abilities for the two slow archwings.

 

Odonata: Simple dash forward that possibly launches missiles or stuns/debuffs accuracy in its wake; turns the shield into a charging wall of force if active, for synergy. Basically charge with some utility.

 

Elytron: Core Vent becomes a powerful "overdrive" boost ability (like a burst of nitrous); the trail of particles damages enemies caught in it.

 

Itzal is fine, but I wish Penumbra were an auto toggle that turned back on whenever you stopped moving instead of forcing a recast.

 

More mobility is always great to see :)

 

now some other ideas from me for this topic:

Itzal drones dont really need to be replaced since its escort ability represents only one type of drones, and there are many others, like drones that see spread from you to seek and destroy enemies, other ideas for drones are:

-kamikaze drones, compared to normal attack drones deal much more damage.

-shield drones(satelites?) - small "drones" float around projecting small round energy shields to defend you from attacks from every direction(protect spherical space around you) but since they move around the defensive space around you would be full of holes that would let some of attacks reach you(so it wouldnt be OP)

-repair drones - would repair you and your allies
 
Yes I know that originally "secondary" weapon idea was all about heavy weapons but now this idea is evolving into "special" systems dont fit in other two weapon slots(primary and melee), it would be heavy weapon, special defense systems or special support systems.  We could also seperate the defense or support systems for another slot.
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I like this idea. Melee, Standard Weapon, and Special Weapon - sounds like an excellent way to structure gear for a space combat mode.

 

Itzal's escort... hm. Minor tweak: Probably make them a little better at drawing aggro. Possibly make the explosion do something more interesting than just a tiny splash of damage that's probably too far away to hit any of the enemies. Leave afterimages that draw fire for even longer after the drones die? Can't think of anything better just yet.

 

IN general, though, I do want to see more weapon variety. Beam cannons, missiles, heavy machineguns, drone pods... maybe things like barrier generators (where you 'fire' the generator to create a shield bubble that possibly deals contact damage and pushback) for support. It would actually be interesting to choose between a heavy weapon and a defensive system, on that note.

 

...someone stop me before I get to Armored Core levels of gear choice. We already have a problem with acquiring parts.

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I like this idea. Melee, Standard Weapon, and Special Weapon - sounds like an excellent way to structure gear for a space combat mode.

 

Itzal's escort... hm. Minor tweak: Probably make them a little better at drawing aggro. Possibly make the explosion do something more interesting than just a tiny splash of damage that's probably too far away to hit any of the enemies. Leave afterimages that draw fire for even longer after the drones die? Can't think of anything better just yet.

 

IN general, though, I do want to see more weapon variety. Beam cannons, missiles, heavy machineguns, drone pods... maybe things like barrier generators (where you 'fire' the generator to create a shield bubble that possibly deals contact damage and pushback) for support. It would actually be interesting to choose between a heavy weapon and a defensive system, on that note.

 

...someone stop me before I get to Armored Core levels of gear choice. We already have a problem with acquiring parts.

 

I was looking on the internet for mecha weapons and found a LOT of COOL looking weapons from online mecha game EXTEEL, I really like their designs,  and I would really like for archwing to have weapons like that, what makes those weapons interesting that while normaly weapons posses grip and trigger under main body of the weapon, most of mecha weapons from EXTEEL have grip and trigger above weapon, so most of weapons are carried under your hand.

 

here are some pics of weapons:

9a493f43bb0f15e8266795779cc195ff.jpg

16b882624a74d06449ab755de2ad4163.jpg

cf87c939949cdeccefd0a9314fd3e2bc.jpg

tumblr_n4ptveXHEq1smxhruo2_500.jpg

7adc4e74ec8502689a487473bf85c454.jpg

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Looks fun. Hey, anyone have feedback on Elytron's abilities? I'm working on a serious Archwing kit rework, but I don't have Elytron and I don't know what it's lacking other than a serious mobility deficiency.

 

Or Archweapons - what do they need, or what do you guys think they need?

 

I think one of problems of elytron is that most of its abilities are damage type and most of damage type abiltiies in warframe(both archwing and ground missions) as whole scale badly to end game.

 

here is topic that talks about abilities of all archwing, its not newest topic(its from may) so dunno if anything changed since that time:

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/462899-itzal-vs-other-archwings/

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We need some ideas for "piloting 2.0"(closest thing to space parkour we can get), I think that first thing we need is true 3d movement in space(since we cant do loops without it), I know that DE said that they were planing to do that but testers found it disorienting but as someone who played few Space flight combat games and never encountering this bug in those games I believe  that the problem must be related to camera all the zoom in's, shaking and stuff.

 

I would want to list in this topic all the normal and unique space maneuvers that could be added to archwing game mode, It was a while since I played space combat games so I hope people who played those type of games recently could help with it :).

 

I have two unique ideas, right now:

-gravitational slingshot(also know us gravity assist maneuver, or swing-by) - use of the relative movement (e.g. orbit around the Sun) and gravity of a planet or other astronomical object to alter the path and speed of aspacecraft, typically in order to save propellant, time, and expense. Gravity assistance can be used to accelerate a spacecraft, that is, to increase or decrease its speed and/or redirect its path.(from wikipedia)

I know that to do this maneuver we would need object with large amount of mass/gravity but what if orokin left some special technology in space(special objects on space maps) that would let us do that ? another possibilty would be that archwing posses special technology that lets us temporarily amplify gravity of any object we target(like for example asteroid) which would mean we can use any object for the "slingshot" and final idea for this is that archwings can deploy in front of us device that creates gravity sphere that let's us do this maneuver.

 

-90-degree turn on a line - its kinda inspired by episode of mythbusters with batmobile doing 90-degree turn by using the grappling hook but even more so its based on scene from karas anime:

part at 8:31

I can imagine attaching line/chain to asteroid to quickly do 90-degree turn like in that scene :)

 

I know that those ideas are probably hard to do but they are just an ideas but pretty awesome ones at that, something pretty close to "space parkour" :)

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@CrashLegacy14

I know PvP was here for a while but that doesnt change the fact that warframe is first and foremostly PvE game, actually origianlly DE didnt even want to add PvP but some people asked for and they eventually given in, there were also many people against PvP since in many people PvP brings out the worst, which I experianced in warframe PvP, being called cheater even though I didnt use any cheats  then he blocked me before I could tell him I wasnt cheating.

Actually more people were excited for archwing then for PvP. 

DE isnt putting effort into making PvP better because it was popular, its oposite its popular now because DE put effort into making it better, If you asked people what DE should focus on(PvP or archwing) before PvP 2.0 come more people would told you focus on archwing.

 

If DE wont sacrifce some of time that its using for main game and pvp then archwing will never become popular , current update rate is really bad, actually bringing sharkwing without fixing many of archwing problems can only increase amount of people hating it. since there is nothing great about being forced to play broken game mode. Yes I am pretty strong in archwing game mode and dont have problems with sharkwing, but to reach this place I sacrifced a lot of time, I had to ignore  void trader and earning ducats for a long while, Experianced players didnt have this problem but for pretty new players it is a problem. Actually if I was forced to play uranus with archwing I just got I would probably exremly frustrated.

 

10plat for mod is strange if someone is willing that much for even common mod, in main game most of common and uncommon mods can be buyed for 1plat...

 

archwing isnt that new its getting close to a year since its release, its about time for HUGE changes to archwing should start happening, we need a lot more content especially more mission types.

I think you missed the point with my referencing PVP, its not just that it was here for a while before archwing, its been here a good long while before it really got any love. PvP at this stage is easy for DE to work on, most of it is taking feedback and making balance adjustments. There's pvp mods, and working through the backlog of the arsenal. There's no need for the art or animation teams to get involved with this stuff either and throwing two or three guys at it is pretty much enough to consistently deliver in updates.

 

By comparison, almost everything we've brought up with Archwing requires art and animation - guys who are busy with the catbrows and orokin moon base. Archwing is still in it's first year (that's still relatively new), and it got updated and modified throughout U15. Since then while we may have only been getting sporadic updates for it you have to recognize that they have been working on it. the Sealab's sharkwing went under the radar for a good while until it was accidentally shown in one of the devstreams, and honestly sharkwing was massive. new environment, new enemies, new wildlife, two new weapons - one that was delayed a bit- and seamless transitions for Archwing to Foot and back again. That last one is the most important because it opens up the possibility of mixed missions for other areas. U17.5 is supposed to be the J3-golem which is going to be a 6 man raid for the archwing. Again, huge. 

 

While we haven't gotten rid of placeholder models in arcwing, DE has been steadily working on Archwing stuff. 

 

 

I undersand what you mean, but the thing is that it will limit some frames to some mission types, for example only bring rhino for interception because for everything else its too slow, unless you want to be the guy who is left behind by the team.

 

There is one more proplem: players, many players care a LOT about how they look, frequently care more about how they look then stats, look at original arcane helmets, people were unhappy that they were "forced" to wear certain helmet for maximum efficency, we would have similar situation here in some missions if you wanted to achieve maximum efficency you would be "forced" to use certain warframes, people asked DE to remove stat bonues from helmets just so they could use any helmet they want there is pretty big chance they would do same thing with frames if they were affecting stats in archwing.

(by the way I am not agreeing with them I am just saying how some people are, personally I am disappointed that I dont have any of original arcane helmets)

 

Factoring in their relative speed isn't going to be any more limiting than is already the case in regular gameplay.

 

... what? First, run-on sentence. Second, a lot of the resentment for Arcane helmets came with the fact that some were clearly more powerful than others for a particular frame. Other's had bonuses that let character's perform in ways that destroyed relative unit balance -- I'm looking at you Vanguard helmet. DE had a critical balance failure. This got further out of hand when newly minted frames did get arcane helmets. DE's final solution was essentially phasing the arcane helmets out of general use. and now we even have Arcane Enhancements that provide a different sort of buff.

 

Your comparison doesn't really work that well here. The choice of warframe in archwing shouldn't be an ascetics only choice, in most cases half your unit's mass is the damn pilot and their warframe. this isn't a scarf or a helmet, its your operator. Why would a fully kitted out rhino go down as quickly as an unranked Loki? Its not like we're getting hit by wave ...

 

[Heavy] Weapon idea: Wave Motion Gun.

 

 

Or Archweapons - what do they need, or what do you guys think they need?

Honestly, I think we have most of our bases covered in 'guns' at least. I'm not entirely sure on that because I've not gotten all the armaments or archwings yet. 

 
One of the small things that bugged me in Archwing out the gate - and thing likely came from me expecting game play more like fighter jets in space!!- than what we got, was that the Imperator was hit scan. in dog-fighting i expected t have to lead my targets, after all i was firing bullets. I expected to see tracer rounds helping me guild shots onto target, I expected a much smarter UI element for target acquisition and guiding my nosegun machine cannon's fire. 
 

 

You know what I think would be a good substitute for Seeking Fire, if ever we got heavy weapons separate?

 

A movement ability. Lack of mobility is what holds back Odonata and Elytron. If they could send engines into overdrive, that would make them far better. So, just now I thought of mobility abilities for the two slow archwings.

 

Odonata: Simple dash forward that possibly launches missiles or stuns/debuffs accuracy in its wake; turns the shield into a charging wall of force if active, for synergy. Basically charge with some utility.

 

Elytron: Core Vent becomes a powerful "overdrive" boost ability (like a burst of nitrous); the trail of particles damages enemies caught in it.

 

Itzal is fine, but I wish Penumbra were an auto toggle that turned back on whenever you stopped moving instead of forcing a recast.

 

I like the idea of the Odonata having a mobility power and like the idea of it compounding with Energy Shell, but I can't help but think we could just strip the charge power out and layer the synergy into Energy Shell. like so:

 

Energy Shell creates a all of energy that moves with the archwing'. While it clips through the environment readily, enemies cannot pass through it. If the energy shell impacts an enemy at high velocity, such as those achieved while sprinting, the target takes X impact damage (where X= a rank-base damage value x impact velocity) and is rag dolled. As an intended side effect, because the energy shell counts as a physical barrier, the rag dolled enemies will be dragged along with the Energy Shell. 

 

- enemies that remain in contact take Y fire damage per second?

- Why doesn't the shield size scale with power range? 

 

So then Crash, what do you purpose to put in that empty power slot? In a nutshell, Volt's Speed. Besides the obvious synergy with Energy Shell as described above, It's a 'community power' which we haven't seen in archwing despite being fairly common in the main game. 

 

 

We need some ideas for "piloting 2.0"(closest thing to space parkour we can get), I think that first thing we need is true 3d movement in space(since we cant do loops without it), I know that DE said that they were planing to do that but testers found it disorienting but as someone who played few Space flight combat games and never encountering this bug in those games I believe  that the problem must be related to camera all the zoom in's, shaking and stuff.

 

I would want to list in this topic all the normal and unique space maneuvers that could be added to archwing game mode, It was a while since I played space combat games so I hope people who played those type of games recently could help with it :).

 

I have two unique ideas, right now:

-gravitational slingshot(also know us gravity assist maneuver, or swing-by) - use of the relative movement (e.g. orbit around the Sun) and gravity of a planet or other astronomical object to alter the path and speed of aspacecraft, typically in order to save propellant, time, and expense. Gravity assistance can be used to accelerate a spacecraft, that is, to increase or decrease its speed and/or redirect its path.(from wikipedia)

I know that to do this maneuver we would need object with large amount of mass/gravity but what if orokin left some special technology in space(special objects on space maps) that would let us do that ? another possibilty would be that archwing posses special technology that lets us temporarily amplify gravity of any object we target(like for example asteroid) which would mean we can use any object for the "slingshot" and final idea for this is that archwings can deploy in front of us device that creates gravity sphere that let's us do this maneuver.

 

-90-degree turn on a line - its kinda inspired by episode of mythbusters with batmobile doing 90-degree turn by using the grappling hook but even more so its based on scene from karas anime:

part at 8:31

I can imagine attaching line/chain to asteroid to quickly do 90-degree turn like in that scene :)

 

I know that those ideas are probably hard to do but they are just an ideas but pretty awesome ones at that, something pretty close to "space parkour" :)

 

Related:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEifucPO7aA

 

 

Any rate. I agree it'd take too much effort to get a functional ... actually, Valkyr's Ripline could be used as a base, it does physically tether the user to the environment. The trick I think would come from having to be able to hold the cable and get it to actually perform a swing instead just pulling us toward the object or halt our movement. 

 

How would we control it through? I mean, it can't be a power, and, at least when it comes to a controller set up, jump is used for ascend in archwing. 

 

Still, it's pretty damn badass.

 

Attack on Titan gives us a few really nice looking high speed melee attacks that could be added to that idea of dog fighting/sprint combat. 

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I don't know much about space anime, but what I really want from Archwing is the feeling of being in space! This is what I would change in Spaceflight 2.0:

Add free rotation: There's no down in space, so why is there in Archwing? It's a real joy-kill being unable to flip upside down and attack from a different angle. It could remain as-is for underwater Archwing.

Change HUD for 3D space: The current map display barely works for 2D spaceflight, so for 3D it should work like a map of the earth: The center of the map is straight ahead, the left and right are straight back, and so on. The size of map icons shows how close they are.

Remove friction: Probably my biggest complaint about Archwing (in space, at least) is the friction where reasonably there should be none. But I will admit that the current controls do make it easy to make fine maneuvers in tight spaces. So here is the compromise I propose, with three different flight modes.

Default flight is for moving in somewhat narrow areas, like most of the Corpus missions. You can accelerate using the movement keys, but letting go of the movement keys will kill your velocity. This makes it easy to change direction or stop fast. There is a speed limit in this mode, in order to ensure that you can halt your movement in an instant if necessary. Speed limit is equal in all directions, but forwards provides the greatest acceleration.

Precise flight is for aiming weapons or blocking, and is activated with the relevant key press. The speed limit is slower than in default so that you can stop on a dime, and acceleration is gentler to avoid throwing off aim. However, you will not stop by simply letting go of movement keys, instead you will drift. This allows you to move while focusing all the controls on shooting.

Sprint flight is for quickly traveling long distances, and activated with the sprint key. There is still a speed limit, to avoid catastrophic collision with undetected small particles, but it is very, very fast. All acceleration is intense, and will throw off aim a lot while accelerating. Merely traveling at high speed will not reduce accuracy as long as you do not press a movement key. You will not slow down when you let go of the movement key, as long as you remain in sprint mode. By accelerating and then drifting while still in sprint mode, you can aim with full accuracy while at high speed, but you risk overshooting your target or colliding with an obstacle.

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Honestly, I think we have most of our bases covered in 'guns' at least. I'm not entirely sure on that because I've not gotten all the armaments or archwings yet. 

 
One of the small things that bugged me in Archwing out the gate - and thing likely came from me expecting game play more like fighter jets in space!!- than what we got, was that the Imperator was hit scan. in dog-fighting i expected t have to lead my targets, after all i was firing bullets. I expected to see tracer rounds helping me guild shots onto target, I expected a much smarter UI element for target acquisition and guiding my nosegun machine cannon's fire.

 

I like the idea of the Odonata having a mobility power and like the idea of it compounding with Energy Shell, but I can't help but think we could just strip the charge power out and layer the synergy into Energy Shell. like so:

 

Energy Shell creates a all of energy that moves with the archwing'. While it clips through the environment readily, enemies cannot pass through it. If the energy shell impacts an enemy at high velocity, such as those achieved while sprinting, the target takes X impact damage (where X= a rank-base damage value x impact velocity) and is rag dolled. As an intended side effect, because the energy shell counts as a physical barrier, the rag dolled enemies will be dragged along with the Energy Shell. 

 

- enemies that remain in contact take Y fire damage per second?

- Why doesn't the shield size scale with power range? 

 

So then Crash, what do you purpose to put in that empty power slot? In a nutshell, Volt's Speed. Besides the obvious synergy with Energy Shell as described above, It's a 'community power' which we haven't seen in archwing despite being fairly common in the main game.

I was referring to existing archguns and what they need balance-wise. Although, having built them all, I have a reasonable idea of that.

 

Honestly, though, leading targets? It's already annoying enough with the Velocitus. I don't mind having hitscan guns and projectile guns, but have you tried leading an enemy with, say, Grattler's hideously slow velocity and 500m range? With those enemy sizes? We'd need an overhaul for it to be anywhere near fun. Like much bigger enemies and higher weapon velocities.

 

Also, while I like the idea you propose for Energy Shell, the point was to give Odonata and Elytron more mobility and that was incidental. My Core Vent idea already gives Elytron an overboost mode - because it would fit Core Vent better than a dash. Effectively, that's already closer to Volt's Speed, but making it a squad power would be odd. Mainly, I was thinking of the charge as a means of diversifying them. Although I suppose a team speed and maneuverability buff would feel different if done right. What if we had a fourth archwing for support, though?

 

This is interesting. What's your take on the whole idea that 3D movement would cause motion sickness, though? I've heard others saying the current version gives them more motion sickness because it's 2D flight in a 3D space...

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I was referring to existing archguns and what they need balance-wise. Although, having built them all, I have a reasonable idea of that.

 

Honestly, though, leading targets? It's already annoying enough with the Velocitus. I don't mind having hitscan guns and projectile guns, but have you tried leading an enemy with, say, Grattler's hideously slow velocity and 500m range? With those enemy sizes? We'd need an overhaul for it to be anywhere near fun. Like much bigger enemies and higher weapon velocities..

 

The Velocitus not having hitscan is a bit odd to me. It's a massive gauss cannon, surely it can fire a round at higher velocities than the Lanka or any bow.

 

Anyway, I'm not talking about giving the guns a slow muzzle velocity. At the ranges you fight on the corpus ship for example, the Imperator would effectively be hit scan, the bullets would travel quick enough that flight time is irrelevant. it only really comes into play when you're shooting at targets at the edge of the huts target indicator range or beyond or if your engaging particularly mobile enemies. 

 

As for the HUD element, I was thinking something like this:

hud1_by_crashlegacy-d96pjwj.jpg

man, my hand writing is bad and slightly hard to see. Oh well. The lead circle would basically be where you want to shoot your gun so that the bullets will hit the target, its size would depend greatly on the accuracy of your weapon.

 

On that note, one thing that bothers me with both the Imperator and Dual Decurion is that their fire rates aren't really suited for the high speed combat that the Archwing implies. They don't lay down a thick enough volume of fire to reliably hit targets in relatively small bursts, and small bursts of fire would be what we'd end up using in a dog fighting scenario. 

 

Also, while I like the idea you propose for Energy Shell, the point was to give Odonata and Elytron more mobility and that was incidental. My Core Vent idea already gives Elytron an overboost mode - because it would fit Core Vent better than a dash. Effectively, that's already closer to Volt's Speed, but making it a squad power would be odd. Mainly, I was thinking of the charge as a means of diversifying them. Although I suppose a team speed and maneuverability buff would feel different if done right. What if we had a fourth archwing for support, though?

 

Yes, we need more mobility for the Odonata, which was -- oh, I see. It's similar to what you were proposing for the Elytron. Honestly, I don't get the Elyron, it's the hardiest of the archwings (which works given its name), yet it looks like its just a pair of really big &#! engines. I'm all for it getting a trans-am mode.

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/496094-merceti-archwing-concept-new-name-change/

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Actually, that's interesting. With proper HUD for it, and an actual bloody upsize to the enemies, leading wouldn't be so horrible. Plus I'll add the idea of switching Veloc/Imperator hitscan and projectile status, and increasing ROF on the automatics, when I make my Rework Archweapons thread.

 

My idea for Core Vent was actually based on Armored Core's Over Boost function. Powerful boost forward, but in this case, controllable (reduced steering radius) but capable of leaving a burning trail like the old Core Vent. (Armored Core Vent, hah, unintentional)

 

I love the thread you linked, thanks for the link. Mobility Quest has been initiated for Merceti.

Edited by FelisImpurrator
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I think you missed the point with my referencing PVP, its not just that it was here for a while before archwing, its been here a good long while before it really got any love. PvP at this stage is easy for DE to work on, most of it is taking feedback and making balance adjustments. There's pvp mods, and working through the backlog of the arsenal. There's no need for the art or animation teams to get involved with this stuff either and throwing two or three guys at it is pretty much enough to consistently deliver in updates.

By comparison, almost everything we've brought up with Archwing requires art and animation - guys who are busy with the catbrows and orokin moon base. Archwing is still in it's first year (that's still relatively new), and it got updated and modified throughout U15. Since then while we may have only been getting sporadic updates for it you have to recognize that they have been working on it. the Sealab's sharkwing went under the radar for a good while until it was accidentally shown in one of the devstreams, and honestly sharkwing was massive. new environment, new enemies, new wildlife, two new weapons - one that was delayed a bit- and seamless transitions for Archwing to Foot and back again. That last one is the most important because it opens up the possibility of mixed missions for other areas. U17.5 is supposed to be the J3-golem which is going to be a 6 man raid for the archwing. Again, huge.

While we haven't gotten rid of placeholder models in arcwing, DE has been steadily working on Archwing stuff.

Ah I see what you mean now, and I can accept that, but there are things in archwing game mode can be worked on without creating art and/or animation: buffing onodata and elytron since right now only itzal is pretty well designed ability-wise, 3 out of its 4 abilities are very useful and have good synergy, and the biggest problem is onodata which pretty bad and even onodata prime with its pretty big buff is still bad compared iztal(or even elytron)

Yeah I know that sharkwing was pretty big change but the problem is that for many people the best part about sharkwing is that you dont have to do full archwing mission, just some parts of map.....

People right now just dont have GOOD reason to play archwing, not a single pure archwing mission in game have any useful rewards for rest of game, for example I REALLY want to play more archwing game mode but the problem is that I also need to farm for ducats(prime parts) and that alone wouldnt take too much time but before that I also have to farm for void keys and add to that farming for rare resources, all of those leaves me with almost no time for archwing, but if DE made archwing alternative to excavation where I could reliably farm for keys I would be EXTREMLY happy, hell even adding more archwing interception missions where I would only get T4 keys in rotation C would make me more happy(even moving elytron to market and making rotation C on uranus archwing T4 keys only would help a lot)

You mentioned something in your post that shows exactly the problem with how DE develops new stuff: they first add something very unfinished(I know nothing is ever truly finished since they continusly add new content but its postly 'preview' of stuff its supposed to be), then they start working on completly new stuff and after 2 years they release version 2.0 that is MUCH closer to what that stuff always was supposed to be, as example look at catbrows and moon base title-set, DE started working on those two things after they added unfinished archwing game mode, if they spend time they used working on those two things, working on archwing it would be in much better shape now

Factoring in their relative speed isn't going to be any more limiting than is already the case in regular gameplay.

... what? First, run-on sentence. Second, a lot of the resentment for Arcane helmets came with the fact that some were clearly more powerful than others for a particular frame. Other's had bonuses that let character's perform in ways that destroyed relative unit balance -- I'm looking at you Vanguard helmet. DE had a critical balance failure. This got further out of hand when newly minted frames did get arcane helmets. DE's final solution was essentially phasing the arcane helmets out of general use. and now we even have Arcane Enhancements that provide a different sort of buff.

Your comparison doesn't really work that well here. The choice of warframe in archwing shouldn't be an ascetics only choice, in most cases half your unit's mass is the damn pilot and their warframe. this isn't a scarf or a helmet, its your operator. Why would a fully kitted out rhino go down as quickly as an unranked Loki? Its not like we're getting hit by wave ...

[Heavy] Weapon idea: Wave Motion Gun.

Lol I should really check out what I write XD

To tell the truth I wasnt here when arcane helmets stuff happen but most of people who I asked about it said that it was related to the fact people didnt want to be forced to wear certain helmets, That alone probably wouldnt make me believe that but I saw MANY players who put apearance over stats(some people are using normal version instead of prime because they think normal version looks better then prime)

The fact that DE didnt remove those helmets that unbalanced the game from people that already had them is pretty good reason to be angry at DE, since it gives some players clear advantage.

Many people were even angrier after seeing some time ago in one of devstreams that when Rebbeca asked Steve if we will be able to recreate with new arcanes old arcane helmets(same bonuses) he said yes which we now know its not true

I would LOVE to have "Wave Motion Gun" in archwing game mode as heavy/special weapon, having it as shoulder cannon would be awesome but I expect it would be more fitting if that weapon was BIG and was floating behind us and was move in front of us only when attacking with it, another possibility is that weapon wouldnt be with us at all and instead it was materialized when activating it, that version could be even bigger since it wouldnt get in our way. not just BIG but "rightfully huge"

Honestly, I think we have most of our bases covered in 'guns' at least. I'm not entirely sure on that because I've not gotten all the armaments or archwings yet.

One of the small things that bugged me in Archwing out the gate - and thing likely came from me expecting game play more like fighter jets in space!!- than what we got, was that the Imperator was hit scan. in dog-fighting i expected t have to lead my targets, after all i was firing bullets. I expected to see tracer rounds helping me guild shots onto target, I expected a much smarter UI element for target acquisition and guiding my nosegun machine cannon's fire.

I dont think I would mind having to lead in on my target as long as hud helps me find where to target(I am pretty sure even modern jet fighters have something like this) also I wouldnt mind small aim assist for which many people asking for, as long as we can turn it off in options

Related:

Any rate. I agree it'd take too much effort to get a functional ... actually, Valkyr's Ripline could be used as a base, it does physically tether the user to the environment. The trick I think would come from having to be able to hold the cable and get it to actually perform a swing instead just pulling us toward the object or halt our movement.

How would we control it through? I mean, it can't be a power, and, at least when it comes to a controller set up, jump is used for ascend in archwing.

Still, it's pretty damn badass.

Attack on Titan gives us a few really nice looking high speed melee attacks that could be added to that idea of dog fighting/sprint combat.

After watching those video's I realized how many AWESOME things we could do with "Grappling hooks", not just awesome maneuvers but also in combat("grabing" enemy and then doing quick turn near somekind of surface to smash enemy into it) or even missions centered around using it, for example: pulling asteroid from asteroid belt(either every tenno does it seperatly or its group effort where multiple tenno attach "Grappling hooks" to aseroid) and draging toward enemy ship to smash asteroid into it :)

 

I completly forgoten about Ripline, but I think its a good start for this idea :)
 
Its closest thing to parkour we could get in space.
Edited by Culaio
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Actually, that's interesting. With proper HUD for it, and an actual bloody upsize to the enemies, leading wouldn't be so horrible. Plus I'll add the idea of switching Veloc/Imperator hitscan and projectile status, and increasing ROF on the automatics, when I make my Rework Archweapons thread.

 

My idea for Core Vent was actually based on Armored Core's Over Boost function. Powerful boost forward, but in this case, controllable (reduced steering radius) but capable of leaving a burning trail like the old Core Vent. (Armored Core Vent, hah, unintentional)

 

I love the thread you linked, thanks for the link. Mobility Quest has been initiated for Merceti.

Ah, Armored Core. *stary eyed*

 

I think making a practical and visible HUD is one of those things that Archwing really needs. My picture required me to stop and point at the scenery to make the HUD visible enough to work off of and that's extremely sad. I mean, it's not that great of a HUD anyway, but it would definitely help if you could see where your reticle is. Christ, I think that's a large part of why I'm so inaccurate in Archwing.

 

 

People right now just dont have GOOD reason to play archwing, not a single pure archwing mission in game have any useful rewards for rest of game, for example I REALLY want to play more archwing game mode but the problem is that I also need to farm for ducats(prime parts) and that alone wouldnt take too much time but before that I also have to farm for void keys and add to that farming for rare resources, all of those leaves me with almost no time for archwing, but if DE made archwing alternative to excavation where I could reliably farm for keys I would be EXTREMLY happy, hell even adding more archwing interception missions where I would only get T4 keys in rotation C would make me more happy(even moving elytron to market and making rotation C on uranus archwing T4 keys only would help a lot)

 

Agreed. Worse still, the drops tend to be horrendous so you ended up spending a lot of time farming for something and not have all that much to show for it. So it's do archwing and likely not get anything to show for it or go do normal missions with both better rewards and rewards that can be used throughout the game. If we had Survival, Extraction, and Defense mission types that netted periodic rewards offering up void keys, forma bps, and similar, it wouldn't be so bad.

 

I'd like to see more 'split missions' like having to disable a grineer ship's point defense weapons before  you hop off and perform a on foot mission  so that the liset could move in to extract you. Alternatively, you could be on a foot mission and find yourself trapped in one section of a ship, your solution is to blow out a window, perform a short trench run, and then reenter at a less defended point on the ship. 

 

I think its rather lame that the Odonata Prime bps drop in basic void missions. Why not have that in a void archwing mission? or a void mission that see you transition to the archwing for a bit. 

 

On a related note: What do you guys think would be the first prime archwng weapons?

 

I would LOVE to have "Wave Motion Gun" in archwing game mode as heavy/special weapon, having it as shoulder cannon would be awesome but I expect it would be more fitting if that weapon was BIG and was floating behind us and was move in front of us only when attacking with it, another possibility is that weapon wouldnt be with us at all and instead it was materialized when activating it, that version could be even bigger since it wouldnt get in our way. not just BIG but "rightfully huge"

Honestly, I'd be more leaning on having the wave motion gun as the ultimate for a new Archwing.

 

Still, as a heavy weapon, I could see it being stowed as two large pods on your operator's back that open up and unfold into a pair of excessively long split barreled cannons. Notable charge time before firing, single shot per 'magazine' with a long recharge timer. Wide enough blast to consume an entire interception capture point's 'sphere' and enough range to easily hit one from another capture point. highest single shot weapon damage in the game. 

 

 

After watching those video's I realized how many AWESOME things we could do with "Grappling hooks", not just awesome maneuvers but also in combat("grabing" enemy and then doing quick turn near somekind of surface to smash enemy into it) or even missions centered around using it, for example: pulling asteroid from asteroid belt(either every tenno does it seperatly or its group effort where multiple tenno attach "Grappling hooks" to aseroid) and draging toward enemy ship to smash asteroid into it :)

 

I completly forgoten about Ripline, but I think its a good start for this idea :)
 
Its closest thing to parkour we could get in space.

Yeah, tether-based maneuvers can be damn badass, but I still don't see how we'd work it into the controls. 

 

Another easier to implement idea is being able to wall kick. Combined with the 'down is relative' of space ... I'll leave it there. I'm still trying to put together a 'comprehensive' post for getting out my basic ideas for this Flight/Piloting 2.0 idea. 

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Ah, Armored Core. *stary eyed*

 

I think making a practical and visible HUD is one of those things that Archwing really needs. My picture required me to stop and point at the scenery to make the HUD visible enough to work off of and that's extremely sad. I mean, it's not that great of a HUD anyway, but it would definitely help if you could see where your reticle is. Christ, I think that's a large part of why I'm so inaccurate in Archwing.

 

 

I agree with you about HUD, currently its pretty bad, it would also be great if it helped us find enemies since currenly its not really helpful. I once got stuck in underwater cave(in sharkwing) with five enemies who were able to shot me but I had no idea where they are, visibility was really bad and minimap only told me thatall of them are very close to me.



Agreed. Worse still, the drops tend to be horrendous so you ended up spending a lot of time farming for something and not have all that much to show for it. So it's do archwing and likely not get anything to show for it or go do normal missions with both better rewards and rewards that can be used throughout the game. If we had Survival, Extraction, and Defense mission types that netted periodic rewards offering up void keys, forma bps, and similar, it wouldn't be so bad.

 

I'd like to see more 'split missions' like having to disable a grineer ship's point defense weapons before  you hop off and perform a on foot mission  so that the liset could move in to extract you. Alternatively, you could be on a foot mission and find yourself trapped in one section of a ship, your solution is to blow out a window, perform a short trench run, and then reenter at a less defended point on the ship. 

 

I think its rather lame that the Odonata Prime bps drop in basic void missions. Why not have that in a void archwing mission? or a void mission that see you transition to the archwing for a bit. 

 

On a related note: What do you guys think would be the first prime archwng weapons?

 

 

I would also want to see 'split missions' , but I expect missions like that to be longer then normal missions so they should have reward worth of the time spend on it since regardless if we like it or not people care about time spend on missions in warframe(because of RNG and stuff), so if reward is too low for time spend people will ignore it sadly

 

I would also like to see void archwing missions :).

 

I expect first prime archwing weapons to be "Veritux" and "Imperator" since those two were very first weapons we got, also veritux is pretty bad compared to centaur even prisma version of Veritux is weaker then it. 

I am pretty interested how they are going to do even better imperator then its "vandal" version even though most of its stats have only small increase but its ability to spool-up to increase the rate of fire to 150%. does make pretty big difference.



Honestly, I'd be more leaning on having the wave motion gun as the ultimate for a new Archwing.

 

Still, as a heavy weapon, I could see it being stowed as two large pods on your operator's back that open up and unfold into a pair of excessively long split barreled cannons. Notable charge time before firing, single shot per 'magazine' with a long recharge timer. Wide enough blast to consume an entire interception capture point's 'sphere' and enough range to easily hit one from another capture point. highest single shot weapon damage in the game. 

 

As you possibly saw earlier concept of "heavy weapons" is slowly evolving to "special equipment", in this slot not only would fit heavy/complex weapons but also defensive systems or support systems. 

In a way you can think of weapons in this slot as equipable abilities that dont use energy for shooting but have recharable ammo(in a way that would work like cooldowns for those weapons/"abilities") and also since "special equipment" is a weapon it would be modded seperatly from rest of archwing.

I believe that this idea would let us customize how we fight with archwing exactly the way we want.

 

Some weapons that would to massive to be equiped on our archwing could be equiped on our orbiter and when activating special equipment we would be bribing out orbiter(or part of it)  from void which would then fire at our enemies, this idea is kinda inspired by "uranus system" from anime sora no otoshimono, anime has nothing to do with space combat but has some epic moments, "uranus system" summons spaceship looking thing that can be commanded to attack enemies:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WlXEym50jk

1:55 part

 

and now some pics that could be good inspiration for heavy weapons:

mecha-weapons_00381422.jpg

Gia-Pink-Mecha_zpscb15e10e5B15D.png

 

Yeah, tether-based maneuvers can be damn badass, but I still don't see how we'd work it into the controls. 

 

Another easier to implement idea is being able to wall kick. Combined with the 'down is relative' of space ... I'll leave it there. I'm still trying to put together a 'comprehensive' post for getting out my basic ideas for this Flight/Piloting 2.0 idea. 

 

Yeah it would be very difficulty but if they would be able to do it the archwing could change from game mode that is played least to game mode that is played the most, building game mode based on attractive/interesting/enjoyable gameplay could help warframe game a LOT, look at team fortress 2, people really like this game gameplay and its hat economy was worth in 2011, 50 Million dollars(dunno how much its worth now) it shows how much money people are willing to put in game if gameplay is enjoyable.

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