Mosted Wanted Weapon Buffs And Nerfs

[LordRaine]

melees are real weapons

If you buy all of your Prime gear from the market or trade and only play on the first half of the starmap and the Crucible, sure. 

[IX-44]

Buffs

 

- Ignis

- Glaxion (fix the freaking beam and give it a small damage boost)

- All sniper rifles

- Miter

- Panthera (like hell I'm gonna use the secondary function when my Jat Kitty can hit farther and harder)

- Grattler (increase projectile speed, grenades should explode on proximity, increase max distance on when grenades explode)

 

These may be niche weapons, but what good are they if they have a tough time killing foes past level 25, even with forma?

 

This.

[Heidrek]

Snipers need a buff and well nerfs hmm lets see those buffs first then we'll start talking.

[shut]

-deleted-

Edited August 27, 2015 by SortaRandom

[Bachuuu]

Scoliac, Hate, Glaive Prime

[ZoneDymo]

really? nobody is going to mention the magistar?

That thing really needs a boost, its like inferior in every way to everything else in its class.

[ThymeL0rd]

I believe all weapons in the game need to be able to fit a niche where they excel.

i.e. I don't want OP weapons that just obliterate everything, and I don't want weapons that as siad above, feels like an insult when you are rewarded with its BP.

 

I believe all weapons should be able to be played within their own niche. Please note i am not saying that a impact weapon should destroy corpus at all levels, a fire weapon destroy infested at all levels, etc. I think it is perfectly reasonable for a weapon's niche to be, say, low to mid level Grineer just as it is fine for a wep to excel at void missions. I just want to know that no matter what weapon I have there is somewhere I can take it where I will love using it.

 

I'm not saying this isn't possible, as yea, sure, i can take almost anything into apollodarus as the game is. It just sucks that a huge bunch of weapons get ignored or unused simply because they aren't the Boltor Prime...

 

Anywayz. Equality, thats what i want XD

[YourBusDriver]

^ and bows.

 

What? Bows are already great.

[YourBusDriver]

Buff the Pangolin, because it's almost not worth the mastery fodder.

 

Nuff said.

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

Or I might be completely accurate, and you're just terrible at math.

 

Or were you taking them to the sixth planet? Is that what isn't accurate? That's what, Jupiter? I think? Sure, fine, you can beat Salad to death with a Kitty and not be too much of a failure at life, I suppose. I'll still point and laugh at you for not using a real weapon, but at least you aren't outside DEAC.

Damage isn't the problem with melee. The combo multiplier, many combos, knockdowns, and finishers all allow melee damage to be useful well past guns as far as damage goes. The problem for melee only exists once enemy damage output gets too high, past level 60 or so, when you simply can't approach enemies without getting shot to death immediately. The solution to that is to cap damage scaling.

[shut]

Damage isn't the problem with melee.

 

Erm, I disagree.

 

Not quite to LordRaine's extent (where you're apparently just "not too much of a failure at life, I suppose" if you bring a hammer as far as Jupiter), but outside of a select few frames that can multiply melee damage by craptons (e.g. Excal, Chroma, Ash/Loki, Mirage, etc), you're really going to have trouble pulling your own weight against level 40+ enemies if you're going in pure-melee mode simply because, regardless of how good you are at not being hit, you won't be doing much damage.

 

What melee needs is an overall damage buff, and perhaps a reduction to the stealth multiplier to go with it so Excal/Ash/Loki don't instantly become overpowered (since they're in a pretty good spot as is when it comes to melee). A half-decent combo system that's improvable with mods would also definitely be nice to have.

Edited August 27, 2015 by SortaRandom

[LordRaine]

The combo multiplier is a complete joke. You need to kill hundreds of enemies without breaking a combo to even begin to approach a decent multiplier. There are only three combos at best in the entire game that are decently usable, there is only one weapon where knockdowns are strong (Kitty), and finishers are and have always been a complete joke, because they don't ignore shields or armor scaling, and they aren't 100% lethal like they should be.

 

The problem is absolutely damage. Every single melee weapon is complete and utter garbage, explicitly because of the severe lack of damage. Compare a strongly modded gun with damage mods to a strongly modded melee weapon with damage mods. It's no comparison. Guns have better mods AND better stats in general. Plus they're ranged. It's an overwhelming bias.

 

Not quite to LordRaine's extent

If you disagree, feel free to point out even one melee weapon that is as good at killing enemies as any of the decent guns. I say they are all garbage because not one of them is. The Kitty has a place because of the outrageous slams providing free CC, and the Galantine and Scindo Prime are the two strongest melee weapons in the game when paired with Cleaving Whirlwind, provided you use Spin To Win. But even they fall far, far short of even the worst of the mid-top guns.

 

It's no contest. Melee, even minmaxed melee, has no place outside of DEAC. It is complete and utter trash. You would have to, at a bare minimum, double the raw damage of about 90% of the melee weapons and give all melee weapons innate shield ignore and armor ignore to make it worthwhile.

 

And even then, it may still not be enough.

[Sakatchi]

No one mentioned daggers yet? Really?

 

We #*($%%@ up covert lethality cause people cant into how finisher damage works, so instead of it being 400% finisher damage, and 100% damage, its now a flat percentage, thanks to people not knowing what loki does, or pointed wind does.

 

Daggers shouldn't suffer because people don't know how mechanics work you know.

[shut]

If you disagree, feel free to point out even one melee weapon that is as good at killing enemies as any of the decent guns.

I actually main Excal with an Orthos Prime because I find it easier to use than most guns. Much more convenient to kill craptons of enemies when you don't have to take the time to properly aim at them.

I can score top damage in T4Ds quite easily with that combo; the only times I don't score #1 in terms of enemies killed are when I have infinite-pancake Mesas or Tonkor-toting GMags in my squad. The only other frames that I've had coming close to my kill count in T4Ds are minmaxed Exalted Blade Excals. The range and speed of the Orthos Prime, plus Blind enabling stealth multipliers for ALL hits (as opposed to Invis/Smokescreen/Prism/etc which only work for the first hit), means metric craptons of damage.

 

Not saying that there aren't any other setups that can outdamage the glorious Orthoscalibur combo (especially if you're facing level 70+ enemies without 4xCP, or if you have to chase down scattered enemies running in random directions like in T4S), but point is, melee is definitely viable if you've got a specific frame+weapon build going. The problem with melee (as I mentioned above) is that you pretty much need one of those specific builds for it to be viable-- you have to take advantage of specific tidbits in the mechanics for your blades to deal damage as reliably as guns, when melee should be just as burly as guns by default.

 

 

 

No one mentioned daggers yet? Really?

 

We #*($%%@ up covert lethality cause people cant into how finisher damage works, so instead of it being 400% finisher damage, and 100% damage, its now a flat percentage, thanks to people not knowing what loki does, or pointed wind does.

 

Daggers shouldn't suffer because people don't know how mechanics work you know.

I don't know what you think the history of Covert Lethality is, but all of it seems to be misinformation.

- CL never gave daggers "400% finisher damage". It was a one-hit-kill right from the beginning; the 400% thing was just a very misleading and entirely irrelevant part of the mod description.

 

- CL only gave a 100% damage bonus (that is, +100% base damage before mods, which exactly doubled final damage) during CL's first iteration in 17.0.0. When the devs realized that the doubled damage was too strong for Exalted Blade, they changed it to "+100 base damage after mods" (which gives well over doubled damage for most daggers, while being more or less insignificant for Exalted Blade since its base damage is so big that an additive bonus doesn't change much).

 

- CL is NOT a "flat percentage", whatever that means. It now gives that same "+100 base damage after mods" (making it a higher priority for daggers than even Pressure Point in terms of damage), allowing daggers to potentially hit harder than most Heavy weapons if you pair them with Pointed Wind.

 

- It's precisely because people knew what Loki dies that CL was nerfed into what it is now. I'm pretty sure there was a video of a Loki soloing a 40min T4S pretty much just by spamming infinite-damage jump attacks.

"Get an instakill where you would normally get a 4x stealth multiplier" was taken away because stealth multipliers are EXTREMELY easy to nail with specific frames. Even without jump attacks, grabbing a Loki and mashing E with a fast dagger that has Primed Reach on it would basically turn you into an untouchable instakill machine.

 

You could previously oneshot a group of level 999999999 Manic Bombard Eximus Overpowered Deathlord Primes by sprinting up to them and pressing E indiscriminately. We all get that daggers have sucked for too long, but that's okay with you?

Edited August 28, 2015 by SortaRandom

[Sakatchi]

I actually main Excal with an Orthos Prime because I find it easier to use than most guns. Much more convenient to kill craptons of enemies when you don't have to take the time to properly aim at them.

I can score top damage in T4Ds quite easily with that combo; the only times I don't score #1 in terms of enemies killed are when I have infinite-pancake Mesas or Tonkor-toting GMags in my squad. The only other frames that I've had coming close to my kill count in T4Ds are minmaxed Exalted Blade Excals. The range and speed of the Orthos Prime, plus Blind enabling stealth multipliers for ALL hits (as opposed to Invis/Smokescreen/Prism/etc which only work for the first hit), means metric craptons of damage.

 

Not saying that there aren't any other setups that can outdamage the glorious Orthoscalibur combo (especially if you're facing level 70+ enemies without 4xCP, or if you have to chase down scattered enemies running in random directions like in T4S), but point is, melee is definitely viable if you've got a specific frame+weapon build going. The problem with melee (as I mentioned above) is that you pretty much need one of those specific builds for it to be viable-- you have to take advantage of specific tidbits in the mechanics for your blades to deal damage as reliably as guns, when melee should be just as burly as guns by default.

 

 

 

I don't know what you think the history of Covert Lethality is, but all of it seems to be misinformation.

- CL never gave daggers "400% finisher damage". It was a one-hit-kill right from the beginning; the 400% thing was just a very misleading and entirely irrelevant part of the mod description.

 

- CL only gave a 100% damage bonus (that is, +100% base damage before mods, which exactly doubled final damage) during CL's first iteration in 17.0.0. When the devs realized that the doubled damage was too strong for Exalted Blade, they changed it to "+100 base damage after mods" (which gives well over doubled damage for most daggers, while being more or less insignificant for Exalted Blade since its base damage is so big that an additive bonus doesn't change much).

 

- CL is NOT a "flat percentage", whatever that means. It now gives that same "+100 base damage after mods" (making it a higher priority for daggers than even Pressure Point in terms of damage), allowing daggers to potentially hit harder than most Heavy weapons if you pair them with Pointed Wind.

 

- It's precisely because people knew what Loki dies that CL was nerfed into what it is now. I'm pretty sure there was a video of a Loki soloing a 40min T4S pretty much just by spamming infinite-damage jump attacks.

"Get an instakill where you would normally get a 4x stealth multiplier" was taken away because stealth multipliers are EXTREMELY easy to nail with specific frames. Even without jump attacks, grabbing a Loki and mashing E with a fast dagger that has Primed Reach on it would basically turn you into an untouchable instakill machine.

 

You could previously oneshot a group of level 999999999 Manic Bombard Eximus Overpowered Deathlord Primes by sprinting up to them and pressing E indiscriminately. We all get that daggers have sucked for too long, but that's okay with you?

It did that cause it ignored armor and stuff, so that 999999 bombard, was whatever base level it spawned at, with like 300 health or so.

 

I ment its a flat 100, instead of a percentage now.

 

And no, people didn't know what it did, since they kept posting loki, invisible, using a dagger with pointed wind, and a unranked covert, and started screaming about how it did 35k on a lv 95 bombard. which was adorable, since loki gives you a 400% mele damage modifier when cloaked, pointed wind actually gives you damage multipliers with basic e mashing, and this all stacked with covert.

 

I tested it without being loki,  I got 6.8k average, which is completely op right?

 

All this aside, yes daggers need a buff and not a bandaid mod people don't understand.

[shut]

It did that cause it ignored armor and stuff, so that 999999 bombard, was whatever base level it spawned at, with like 300 health or so.

 

I legitimately have no idea what you're trying to tell me here. What does "300 base health" have to do with daggers oneshotting enemies that have several hundred thousand health?

 

And no, people didn't know what it did, since they kept posting loki, invisible, using a dagger with pointed wind, and a unranked covert, and started screaming about how it did 35k on a lv 95 bombard. which was adorable, since loki gives you a 400% mele damage modifier when cloaked, pointed wind actually gives you damage multipliers with basic e mashing, and this all stacked with covert.

Are you seriously suggesting that an unranked ceramic dagger with unranked CL did 35k damage to level 95 Bombards because of simple multiplier stacking, and not the fact that the mod forces instakills on the weapon?!

 

 I got 6.8k average, which is completely op right?

Yeah, you're the one not understanding how CL works.

The number that appears over the enemy's head means diddly squat. The point of the mod is that it kills enemies instantly. Of course it's going to show a small number if you hit a weak enemy with it; did you think the game was going to show "999999999999999999999999999999999999999999" damage for every cloaked CL dagger hit?

Edited August 28, 2015 by SortaRandom

[KnightCole]

One buff I would love is where Split Chamber speeds up the spool up time on LMGs.  Since, well, its firing 2 rounds at once, it should count as a shot towards the spool up shots.  

[Drador-An]

I kind of feel like the shield melee weapons should block 100% of damage, because they are legitimate shield. I would

 

like small damage multipliers on the stances too, but I would mainly like the block buff. It would make them feel unique

 

and more viable for survivability. I enjoy them a lot, but when a Katana can block the same as a shield, it feels funny to

 

me.

Edited August 28, 2015 by Drador-An

[Sakatchi]

I don't know what stealth finishers are.

You should Look up what finisher damage is.

 

Id type you up a book about it, but no one reads when they want to argue.

Edited August 28, 2015 by Sakatchi

[shut]

You should Look up what finisher damage is.

 

Id type you up a book about it, but no one reads when they want to argue.

Dude, everyone is perfectly aware of what stealth finishers are. That has literally nothing to do with pre-nerf Covert Lethality.

You might as well point me to a Wikia page about headshots or something. It's just not relevant to this conversation.

[TheBrsrkr]

Fists, and the Venka.

[Sakatchi]

Dude, everyone is perfectly aware of what stealth finishers are. That has literally nothing to do with pre-nerf Covert Lethality.

You might as well point me to a Wikia page about headshots or something. It's just not relevant to this conversation.

Exept it is, cause they kept using them, and blamed them on covert lethality.

 

Ever notice how every single thing was done by an Excalibur that pressed 2 first, or a loki  that was invisible?

 

There's a pattern there huh.

[TheBrsrkr]

Exept it is, cause they kept using them, and blamed them on covert lethality.

Ever notice how every single thing was done by an Excalibur that pressed 2 first, or a loki that was invisible?

There's a pattern there huh.

Stealth bonus damage is not finisher damage.

[Sakatchi]

Stealth bonus damage is not finisher damage.

Wat. Are you for real.

 

You're not baiting me are you?

Edited August 29, 2015 by Sakatchi

[Vaskadar]

Miter - BRING BACK THE TRIPLE BLADES OF DOOOOOM!

Panthera primary fire

Snipers across the board

Daggers, Dual Daggers, actually, quite a few melee weapons could be reworked to make them more unique from one another in the same weapon class.

 

Ignis.

Seer.

Synapse - only a range and proc rate buff (to make it different from the amprex, which is basically a direct upgrade for no reason)...

 

Paracyst

Mutalist Quanta

Harpak

 

Burst-fire weapon fire rate and accuracy

 

Some other lackluster weapons that could use some minor QoL changes.

Edited August 29, 2015 by Vaskadar