Melee Reach

[KingTaro]

I'd like to bring up one of the ancient issues once again.

Namely, the melee range and how the Reach mods apply to the melee weapons.

 

People might have noticed that the Reach mod works best on weapons that at least have a decent Reach. Such as Polearms, Whips, Heavy weapons, Staffs, etc... But not as good on weapons like the Fists, Daggers, Sparring and so forth.

 

For quite some time, I've been wondering how the (Primed) Reach works.

After several tests, my conclusion was that the mod only increased the weapon reach by half of what is written on the mod. And the reason for that is most likely because the collision mesh of the weapon is being scaled from the center point of the weapon. Like so:

 

(In this illustration, I'm using the regular Reach, which should increase the range by 60%)

 

 

Instead of scaling from one point, like so:

 

 

 

Whether this is trully the case or not, many do agree that the Reach mods seem to be "broken" in one way or another. Would love to get an official word on this.

 

Also, perhapse we could get another Reach mod (True Reach), that increases the range with an absolute value (example: +6m), instead of relative value (60%). Would be great for weapons like Kogake.

 

 

Original post: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/382844-reach-mod-adds-30-instead-of-60-as-shown-on-the-mod/

 

 

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EDIT: We got a reply from DE Rebecca!

There is a potential fix for this in testing, it could be released today if things check out!

 

The fix would be for PC today, which means the next build Consoles get would also have the fix. However, that next console build currently does not have and ETA.

 

 

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EDIT 2: U17.4.0: Melee Reach has been fixed

U17.4.0 patchnotes: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/525957-update-1740/#post_id_5891607

 

I've tested the Galatine with maxed Primed Reach. The mod does seem to increase the range.

Maxed Primed Reach should increase the range by 165%, meaning by a factor of x2.65.

But I think that the range is still not properly being scaled.

 

Anyway, here is the conducted test:

 

Still, if someone from DE could explain how the Reach mods work, it would clear things up a bit.

 

 

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EDIT 3: Weapon collision mesh might be shorter than the visual model.

 

DandyTheLion (a reddit member) pointed out that the collision mesh of the Galatine is actually shorter than the visual model. I decided to test it and I think he's right.

 

In this gif I'm using Galatine without any Reach mods.

You should be able to see that no damage was inflicted, even though the blade seemed to go through the enemy.

 

This could explain why the Reach mods aren't increasing the range as much as we'd expect them to.

Since the Reach mod is increasing the collision mesh, which seems to be shorter than the visual blade.

 

 

 

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EDIT 4: The 17.4.0 update fixed and improved the melee hitbox.

 

The base reach aside on some weapons (e.g. Galatine), I have to say that DE really did fix and improve the melee hitbox.

Since that hotfix, I noticed a drastic improvement when you're trying to hit units that aren't at your exact height level. So flying units, units on stairs, crowlers, etc... It's so much easier to even smash the enemies in the air after you bullet jump.

 

Not to mention the nullifiers! Often when I was inside their bubble with my Orthos Prime, smashing my weapon directly at the nullifier, the melee weapon would reaching outside the bubble and shrink it, instead of killing the nullifier. Now, the melee lands hits directly on the Nullifier once you're in the bubble.

 

Thought I should mention what has been fixed, in case there are still people wondering what this fix actually did.

Edited September 21, 2015 by KingTaro

[Valiant]

It'd be nice to get a response on this of correct.

I remember we had problems with the range of melee weapons when modded in the past. Rebecca replied on the thread a few times regarding it.

Edited August 26, 2015 by Naith

[Nikbis]

Yep, it's here https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/458319-huge-decrease-of-melee-weapons-range-since-165/
And I'm still angry about it 7 major updates later.

[Kayco38]

i knew i was supose to get wayyy more range with my galatine with primed reach ,this thing need fix

[KingTaro]

Indeed, it's pretty obvious that Primed Reach doesn't increase the range by 165% on Galatine.

Really hope DE explains to us how the weapon reach is being applied.

[klaus00]

DE could just correct the values on the mods.

Should go from 60% to 30% and 165% to 82,5%, but we know this would cause a lot more problems than just keeping them this way.

 

I think in the end, DE loves The Beatles, espicially "Let It Be"

[Arrowblitz36]

I didn't realize this thanks for pointing that out it dose need some fixing

[Ronyn]

Good thread

[Countess_Hapmuhr]

I think melee in general is completly broken now. I seem to miss a lot more than before to the point where it's just not worth it anymore. There's absolutely no point in packing any of the small arms because their hitboxes are ridiculously small. Even the major melee options don't feel like they're worth the prime reach mod anymore. So I've given up on melee until DE gets around to fixing this, which should be sometime next year. Hopefully.

[5h1n0k4m1]

i totally agree with you OP

...we need an absolute value !

[Natsusane]

I talked to Steve abut that issue at TennoVIP and he didnt know that this issue even existed...

Edited August 28, 2015 by Natsu526

[RazorHowl]

I'd really like to see some form of visual effect on a weapon that has a reach mod installed. perhaps a sort of phantom energy extension of the weapon itself, displaying the actual hit range? I.E when a nikana is swung, an energy blade extends from the tip of the blade at the length of the full reach of it. This would be somewhat awkward on blunt weapons I suppose, perhaps instead of a blade have an orb or something swinging at the end to show where the blow will actually fall? Dunno. Just some sort of visual indicator outside swinging at walls to check the sparks.

[Impact6]

I'd really like to see some form of visual effect on a weapon that has a reach mod installed. perhaps a sort of phantom energy extension of the weapon itself, displaying the actual hit range? I.E when a nikana is swung, an energy blade extends from the tip of the blade at the length of the full reach of it. This would be somewhat awkward on blunt weapons I suppose, perhaps instead of a blade have an orb or something swinging at the end to show where the blow will actually fall? Dunno. Just some sort of visual indicator outside swinging at walls to check the sparks.

This! Totally this! But with an option to turn these visual effects off.

[zoboso]

Looks like we need to reach out to get this issue fixed.

[KingTaro]

I talked to Steve abut that issue at TennoVIP and he didnt know that this issue even existed...

Did Steve say that he'd look into it?

 

I'd really like to see some form of visual effect on a weapon that has a reach mod installed. perhaps a sort of phantom energy extension of the weapon itself, displaying the actual hit range? I.E when a nikana is swung, an energy blade extends from the tip of the blade at the length of the full reach of it. This would be somewhat awkward on blunt weapons I suppose, perhaps instead of a blade have an orb or something swinging at the end to show where the blow will actually fall? Dunno. Just some sort of visual indicator outside swinging at walls to check the sparks.

I've seen similar suggestions a few times and I really like the phantom energy idea.

[NickBoay]

I'd really like to see some form of visual effect on a weapon that has a reach mod installed. perhaps a sort of phantom energy extension of the weapon itself, displaying the actual hit range? I.E when a nikana is swung, an energy blade extends from the tip of the blade at the length of the full reach of it. This would be somewhat awkward on blunt weapons I suppose, perhaps instead of a blade have an orb or something swinging at the end to show where the blow will actually fall? Dunno. Just some sort of visual indicator outside swinging at walls to check the sparks.

that be cool indeed

 

ontopic: i also always felt that reach mod was a bit off and not really " reaching" as it should, always thought it was just me rlly intresting to see this topic, highly curious what DE will say on this.

[.Belial]

well on some weapons like orthos and tipedo it might be ok. but i would like to get a fix on this too!

[Caernarvon]

Any answers anywhere yet?

[UnworthySeraph]

Maybe they do it this way for polearms and staffs, but it would certainly make more sense for them to change it for swords and stuff.

[KingTaro]

Indeed, double edged weapons could have their range scaled from the center point.

 

Maybe with the exception of tonfa's. Tanfa's may be better off scaling from one side, only extending the blade that is used the most in its combo's, in favour of having a decent reach.

[tripletriple]

Would like to keep this thread up there. Super important issue. 

[MegaToasty]

I'd really like to see some form of visual effect on a weapon that has a reach mod installed. perhaps a sort of phantom energy extension of the weapon itself, displaying the actual hit range? I.E when a nikana is swung, an energy blade extends from the tip of the blade at the length of the full reach of it. This would be somewhat awkward on blunt weapons I suppose, perhaps instead of a blade have an orb or something swinging at the end to show where the blow will actually fall? Dunno. Just some sort of visual indicator outside swinging at walls to check the sparks.

Why not just have the weapon grow in size by the intended percentage? That way the visual resembles the actual range.

[(PSN)ShadowLynx777]

Thank you for the info op. Makes sense why the reach mods are broken. Warframe needs fixes not bandaids.

[Shehriazad]

Some weapons have had their range broken big time and not even Primed Reach can fix it...I'm not sure what's taking them so long...but they certainly need to fix it. As a hardcore fan of melee combat this situation has been unbearable for me as many wepaons no longer possess any valid range on certain attacks.

[IX-44]

+1, it was a good thread back then, it's a good thread now, and we need this fixed FIRST before melee gets updated.