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Does Anyone Else See The Stupidity Of A 1800+ Person Clan?


Ninjaman999
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 Well yeah, you only had 4 people. How would it make any sense if a single squad could easily farm up the materials for an entire room no problem?

So what you are saying is that my playstyle is not a supported one that is meant to be enjoying the game and all of its benefits including the dojo?

I'm not going to lie blatantfool - you might want to disassociate yourself with such a hot topic as a moderator - obviously your opinions are your own.  And you aren't an employee of DE - but there are 1000 other anons who probably don't realize/know this.  

It is a simple thing much like the vandal arguement:

Those who have a vandal want it to remain exclusive.

Those who don't have one want it to be open to everyone.

Those who are in a large clan (You included) think the dojo is working as intended and everything is fine.

Those who are in a small clan feel that the dojo mechanics are basically telling us that our playstyles, clans, and social interaction levels that we have maintained up until this point (in a 4 person MAX co-op game mind you) are no longer welcome.  We are being pressured into changing and conforming if we want to experience all of the content in update 8.  We are being told that we are not their priority and that we as a playerbase are not as important as the  larger clans.

This is not acceptable to us.  

Those who are in the middle ground clan sizes all have very mixed feelings about it there is not really a consensus among them (which makes completely and total sense >_> )

Of course there are odd men out.  Just like with the vandal - I was in fact one of those oddballs in the vandal argument.  Even though my old account qualified/had a vandal - my new (this) account was made 1 day after the vandal promotion ended.  I do not qualify for this weapon by a 1 day timestamp.  Even though I've been with the game since january.  I have never once asked the vandal be removed from exclusivity.  But if you look around there are a handful of members of this community with small clans who say "they look forward to the challenge and are thankful that the long term content exists" among other reasons.  Oddballs will always exist but you can't deny that the VAST majority fit into the categories I have described.

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A: platinum is not REQUIRED to build anything in a dojo.

B: in that 1800 member clan.  How many of them donated platinum?

How many donated ANYTHING?  I would think that saying 100 members did would be me giving a generous benefit of the doubt.

Argue all you want - the majority is mooching off the minority.  People who joined after everything was built - they are mooching.

C: I'm NOT discrediting any feats.  I know someone who has dropped 4k platinum into this tiny clans dojo.  (bout 14 members) to say he wasn't contributing would be like smacking him in the face.  Obviously SOMEONE had to donate materials and supplies - and maybe even platinum as you have suggested.  But for you to argue that the people who have contributed make up the MAJORITY stake in that clan?  Seems more than ridiculous.

 

You misunderstood. I meant it as the people that donated platinum I doubt they would donate turn around and go "YOU ALL SUCK YOU FREAKING MOOCHING SOBS!!!" To the other clan members. it is a GROUP GOAL. We all want it, and while yes some may never donate we all work together getting materials, void keys, etc, etc....

 

Since you are not in the "Big Clans" as they seem to pointed off as, I doubt you see what exactly goes on within them right?

Edited by BobBoberson
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I think a way to solve this might be to create a dojo room that raise the clan size limit, something like a barrack.

 

A clan could still get very big but would have to build those barracks and the rooms needed for that increasing energy and capacity cost.

 

Sadly, current clans that would be above the initial size limit will still have to be broken apart some how, I'm not sure how this could be achieved.

Edited by Lunatick101
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Look TraumaHunter, I don't want to crush your hopes and dreams, but DE has stated numerous times that they WANTED players in a larger clan when it came to Dojos.

 

How large, that's up to the eyes of the beholder.  

 

A squad of 4 isn't a clan.  It's a squad.  You can keep a clan as small as a squad, but don't expect it to advance far without nonstop commitment.

 

An active clan of 15-50 can certainly get things done, if at a slow pace, but definitely done.  Our active 15 got the generator and two hallways finished, for example, and I'm sitting here waiting for it to finish so I can lay down the next 3 parts for my motley crew to start putting materials into.

 

And if it's the Forma that's holding you back, that should be the least of your worries.  It's the materials like salvage that give my clan problems.  Larger clans have problems getting people to donate since most people join under the impression that others will make it.  A smaller, coordinated group knows that everyone works together for the greater good, because if we all don't put in effort, it doesn't get done.

 

That's the beauty of a small clan(But not squad-small) clan working together on a dojo.  You can feel your contributions mattering.

Edited by Darxio
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You misunderstood. I meant it as the people that donated platinum I doubt they would donate turn around and go "YOU ALL SUCK YOU FREAKING MOOCHING SOBS!!!" To the other clan members. it is a GROUP GOAL. We all want it, and while yes some may never donate we all work together getting materials, void keys.

 

Since you are not in the "Big Clans" as they seem to pointed off as, I doubt you see what exactly goes on within them right?

I hear every day from several clan leaders who used to run small guilds/clans in this game.

They jumped ship in order to obtain the benefits because they felt left out.  I'm not going to repeat the things that they have seen inside those clans because I can't really do that on good faith that keeps their identity secret.  I do not want to be the reason they get kicked out of those mega clans because someone put a few pieces of a puzzle together.

Let's just say that these things they tell me are things that make  me stay strong in my will to remain a small clan even as the most "meta" gamer you will ever know.  (I have 4 spreadsheets of min max tables for warframe...4.  It kills me to not have the "best" weapons... It kills me.)

I would also like to point out that what i said was apparently completely misunderstood as well.  But it is not something I feel I can clarify on further if your retorts are as such.  If I think of a better way to explain it I'll edit this post though.

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 I'll do no such thing. I'm a player too. I have an opinion.

 

 Your play style isn't discouraged, it is inefficient. You shouldn't be complaining about that. You should not be expecting a small clan to function like a big one. You certainly shouldn't be asking DE to build a handicap into the game to do this either.

 

 Your enjoyment is not more important then any of the thousands of players in large clans. By building a handicap in so that small clan players can all feel like special snowflakes and get all the cool toys easier you devalue the playtime of anyone in a large group.

 

 This is nothing like the Vandal Weapons. It seriously isn't.

 

 See, when it comes to the Vandal argument there is no right or wrong. You can't be correct or incorrect. It is all opinions.

 

 But this is talk about something more serious then a shiny blue weapon variant. This is talking about how the game will treat its players. This is "Should we handicap the clan system so that it is just a short grind chain?"

 

 Because that is what it'll do. Make things a shorter grind chain. Large clans can shave down to few enough members that they can finish the Dojo and Tech at the cheapest cost and then BAM. Right back to enormous again. Not that it'll matter - because having the items at all will be nothing special or interesting.

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 Your play style isn't discouraged, it is inefficient. You shouldn't be complaining about that. You should not be expecting a small clan to function like a big one. You certainly shouldn't be asking DE to build a handicap into the game to do this either.

 

 Your enjoyment is not more important then any of the thousands of players in large clans. By building a handicap in so that small clan players can all feel like special snowflakes and get all the cool toys easier you devalue the playtime of anyone in a large group.

 

Inefficient playstyle? That doesn't sound good. Inefficiency didn't exist before.

 

And I really do hate repeating myself. "You don't cater to one group, because their gameplay experience isn't more important than someone in a smaller clan."

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My clan is small-ish (I think we only have 60 members atm, we had 12 not too long ago) and were steamrolling this content. I alone had enough mats for like, 2 rooms. I don't understand how people who've been playing for "thousands of hours" don't, since I only have like 500hrs according to steam.

The material costs are nothing, you could build it all solo with enough determination. The material buff made it even easier. Before the buff I could farm 200 alloy average every 10-15minutes. I don't even want to know how easy it will be now..

but yeah, people need to stop looking at big numbers and freaking out, 100k credits seems like a lot but when your average mission gives you 3k then its not a big deal.

If it was 30-50k rubedo per room, I could see the outrage.. but nanospores? people are freaking about nanospores? lol

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I don't know I am kinda for taking a massive restriction system and sticking it on Clans... make it cost credits and require certain mastery to make a clan, make it limited on clan number, build a tier system forcing people to upgrade clans in order to get certain kinds of labs to unlock other things. Make it so clans cannot recruit people below a certain mastery meaning no showing up on noob levels and recruiting noobs fresh into the game. Give those players times to work hard and increase their mastery... everyone here who is not a founder managed to pull it off just fine without needing all the plat to increase their mastery force it on others.

 

This should place massive restrictions on the bigger clans ability to recruit, and finally give noobs time to play th game out and then choose who they wish to join up with, instead of having them blindly join up with a clan before one of the smaller clans can get to them and build a more personal relationship with them. It isn't really fair us smaller clans can't even get more members. Forget scaling, forget making it easier... there needs to be a system that promotes joining smaller clans and making them bigger, there needs to be a project support system so that small clans can publish projects on a special clan list showing projects that clans are working on in their dojos (of course they can only publish once every month or two weeks, and of course if the project is canceled its all returned to the original donators) There needs to be support for smaller clans.

 

I don't care about making it easier by making things cheaper screw that. Just give us more supporting tools such as what I have claimed. Clans should be an advanced player structured system. It should be a mid-way game content. So that new players can focus on doing new player things instead of feeling pressured from the get go. They shouldn't feel you need to be in a clan to advance. they should be allowed to feel perfectly comfortable alone.

 

Ever read novels or comic books for "Predator"? Before they were allowed to be in a clan they had to pass their right of passage. Think of the certain rank mastery requirement to join a clan as their right of passage to go from young blood, to bloodied/hunter. This is exactly what we need. They are new, they are like kids, new ninja... growing up... they must pass their right of passage before joining a clan. They must prove themselves.

 

Of course clans should be small families, small hunting parties that work together. Restricting them to be smaller would be more accurate Lore wise, Restricting it to mastery rank would also be more correct Lore wise. These are ninja... they live in clans... they awaken... they learn... they kill... they become stronger... They are hunters, killers, saboteurs, hackers... They are elite warriors that live in this solar system watching over it. The grineer, and Corpus fear them... fear their power... fear death itself... fear their very own shadow because the Tenno are Death incarnate. It wouldn't make sense for some whelp to join a clan and disgrace it with such ease... to drag others down... to have no skill or weaponry outside of the norm of their own. Tenno are Warriors... born to kill... Their honor is in their People the Tenno, and their clan, and their squad mates... This would make sense...

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 I'll do no such thing. I'm a player too. I have an opinion.

 

 Your play style isn't discouraged, it is inefficient. You shouldn't be complaining about that. You should not be expecting a small clan to function like a big one. You certainly shouldn't be asking DE to build a handicap into the game to do this either.

 

 Your enjoyment is not more important then any of the thousands of players in large clans. By building a handicap in so that small clan players can all feel like special snowflakes and get all the cool toys easier you devalue the playtime of anyone in a large group.

 

 This is nothing like the Vandal Weapons. It seriously isn't.

 

 See, when it comes to the Vandal argument there is no right or wrong. You can't be correct or incorrect. It is all opinions.

 

 But this is talk about something more serious then a shiny blue weapon variant. This is talking about how the game will treat its players. This is "Should we handicap the clan system so that it is just a short grind chain?"

 

 Because that is what it'll do. Make things a shorter grind chain. Large clans can shave down to few enough members that they can finish the Dojo and Tech at the cheapest cost and then BAM. Right back to enormous again. Not that it'll matter - because having the items at all will be nothing special or interesting.

So.  The large clan vs small clan is a "right or wrong" argument?

"This is talking about how the game will treat its players"

This is not about how the game is treating the small clan users?  We obviously feel as if we aren't being treated well/fairly.

At this point I'm really starting to lose respect for you when you are one of the people I respect the most on these forums.

You are effectively shutting down any constructive feedback here.  No one is saying put the mega tenno corps on the same level as small clans.

I would love it if you pointed out the post that explicitly stated that somewhere I certainly have never seen one.  What I have seen is people asking for DE to make their playstyle more viable.  We feel we are locked out of content.  The barriers are not insurmountable entirely.  But the bar is so high that it is discouraging us from even jumping.  We as a community (within the community) are being pushed away.

If DE comes out and says that they do not support us 1-15 member clans - you can bet your bottom dollar all hell will break loose.  A good portion of this community is those players (as demonstrated by the forums the last few days...)  DE should be extending their arms out to all players equally.  There have been several constructive ideas that benefit both larger clans and smaller clans that are better than the current system. 

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Asking for inefficient build times for lesser materiel demand  has been my push.

Is it fair a small clan to choose to build a hallway for half cost (not including forma)? Sure, as the idea is it takes 4 weeks to build. not 12 hours.

Wouldn't insane build times equal out the pure defense grind BS for smaller clans, and retain efficiency superiority of larger clans by a wide margin?

And this is just simply building your home, not research where the real cake is.

Edited by Firetempest
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So.  The large clan vs small clan is a "right or wrong" argument?

"This is talking about how the game will treat its players"

This is not about how the game is treating the small clan users?  We obviously feel as if we aren't being treated well/fairly.

 

 

 I feel like it is. If you approach it wrong it always shafts someone.

 

 Right now small clans have it rougher - maybe too rough - and that needs work. But there is more to it then just adding scaling for clan size.

 

 Like, for instance. What clan size? How hard does it scale? Just those questions are a seriously big deal. Too much or too little and the change becomes pointless because it'll either fail to do what it was meant to do OR it'll just flip the problem over and now the opposite end is the one being hurt.

 

 As for the rest, yeah. I get it. I came off about it rougher then I intended too. It is all good. Even in spite of that responses to my posts have been good. I may be a bull in a china shop but people are making it work.

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 I feel like it is. If you approach it wrong it always shafts someone.

 

 Right now small clans have it rougher - maybe too rough - and that needs work. 

Would just like to point out this is the first time you have said something other than "deal with it" (loose interpretation of course) or even admitted our side of the story had any weight to it at all.

 

 But there is more to it then just adding scaling for clan size.

 

 Like, for instance. What clan size? How hard does it scale? Just those questions are a seriously big deal. Too much or too little and the change becomes pointless because it'll either fail to do what it was meant to do OR it'll just flip the problem over and now the opposite end is the one being hurt.

 

 As for the rest, yeah. I get it. I came off about it rougher then I intended too. It is all good. Even in spite of that responses to my posts have been good. I may be a bull in a china shop but people are making it work.

There have been dozens of topics that have put out much more constructive and detailed posts other than "scale it for clan size".  I think if you would go and read those then give constructive input as someone who is in a large clan it would be beneficial for the community.

No one is taking your posts as coming off as rough. Just very unphilosophical.  You weren't posting as if we had any weight to our opinion.  The comment about this being a "right and wrong" decision is a bit confusing.  Our opinions are ours - your opinions are yours.  There can be no right and wrong answer when we both have EQUAL weight and input to our different and opposing opinions.

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I will clarify for you.

 

Whenever you see Blatant post regarding this subject, just replace in your mind whatever he typed with "Well, I got mine!"

 

This has two benefits, first it is easier to understand, second you don't have to deal with his condescension on the subject.

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I have said it in other posts, but I do not think scaling is needed at all.

 

The time sync (keeping players playing) is in the dojo right now.  People of all clan sizes want a dojo that is useful.

 

The time sync should be on the items acquired from the dojo.  Standardize dojos prices so clans of all sizes can build them but put the time sync and large resource requirements on the items themselves.

 

So a 4 man clan or 2000 man clan can get a dojo that produces items relatively easy (ask DE for what these prices should be, they have the number and trend data,) but then getting the flamethrower, chainsword or any items out of it requires hard work and play time to build per person.  Clans that are huge can run resource runs fast 24/7 and still retain their numbers "as a benefit" perk and small clans can still get into a dojo and start working towards their items also.

Casual players are happy in their small clans and large groups still get everything they had as well.

 

Current system is likely to lead 3rd party websites to offer access to their clan dojo at a premium to build the Dojo only weapons and then you can go back to your own clan.

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My post must have been the largest mass of nonsense yet on this thread lol... not a single reply to it, and yet I see everyone else still butting heads. Meh, keep going everyone do your thing with the feedback!

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Would just like to point out this is the first time you have said something other than "deal with it" (loose interpretation of course) or even admitted our side of the story had any weight to it at all.

 

 I've been under the impression changes will be made the entire time. The only questions is whether or not they'll even be the kind of changes anyone here expects.

 

 I imagine if they think they can figure it out they'll opt for fixing this issue with further updates to what you can make/research down the line and then only have to do a limited amount of rebalancing or what have you. Even then I'm not sure that would be the case either.

 

 Too early to say anything in particular aside from "They'll be talking about it."

 

 

There have been dozens of topics that have put out much more constructive and detailed posts other than "scale it for clan size".  I think if you would go and read those then give constructive input as someone who is in a large clan it would be beneficial for the community.

No one is taking your posts as coming off as rough. Just very unphilosophical.  You weren't posting as if we had any weight to our opinion.  The comment about this being a "right and wrong" decision is a bit confusing.  Our opinions are ours - your opinions are yours.  There can be no right and wrong answer when we both have EQUAL weight and input to our different and opposing opinions.

 

 Yeah. Maybe I need some coffee or something. Wasn't my intent. 

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No way in hell would that clan exist if the amount of resources needed for building were reasonable. Why not balance out the dojo build prices and stuff and put a max limit on clan sizes to like 50? I feel anything above 50 would make the clans less personal and communal then the bigger clans.

It's preventing everyone else from enjoying the Dojo aspects of the game unless they join one of the monolithic "to get the content" clans, instead of having fun in smaller "Play with friends and build a ninja clubhouse" clans.

>_>

 

 

Since you are referencing my clan.

 

And me. 

 

I should reply to this thread.

 

 

Here is my input.

 

I agree.

 

 

 

 

You see, what we gained, is incomparable to the experience we lost, as an initial clan, we lost the experience of bonding with friends and earning the clan progressively and working hard for it. 

 

My clan started out small just like every other clan, we had 10 members and started slow.

I had a really cool idea, and a theme.  I wanted our clan to be "poetic" and cool

 

Eventually people liked our theme, and started joining.

 

You know, we got a few members every day, and we got to meet them.

 

When update 8 came.

 

We anticipated 100-200 members.  Maybe.

 

Now?

 

We are sitting at 2000.

 

Do i enjoy this?  yes / no

 

I feel a large sense of community.

 

The dojo let me down, as we steam rushed it.  Im not going to gloat about how fast we finished it.

 

The reason i did the "get to the content" style, is because when U8 came, we only had 400 members.

 

Understand we did that to "catch up" to larger clans.

 

But for some reason, whatever it was.  Alot more then that happened.

 

I dont regret doing it, But i also want to say we dont look down on other clans.

 

I have done alot to help other clans out however i can, i have even made artwork for some of them, and helped them design their dojos.

 

 

So please, think about our point of view.

We only had 400 members when U8 hit.

 

 

We were expecting the same things all of you though.

 

But like i said i agree.

 

We gained so many members because of the "need' for the content.

 

People thought we had that, so they joined us.

 

If the dojos were designed for 400 members or so, then it would not be an issue.

 

 

IDEALLY though, no matter what they do.

 

There will be that one clan that everyone squeezes into, to rush content.

 

 

 

So all i want to say,

 

Enjoy the bonding experiences if your in a small - medium clan

 

Large clans have a community, but not so much bonding.

 

People bond within the community, but it will be difficult to unite the community as a whole. 

 

There is a + and - to every outcome.

 

Choose what you really want in your experience with this game.

Edited by pdxdubin
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No way in hell would that clan exist if the amount of resources needed for building were reasonable. Why not balance out the dojo build prices and stuff and put a max limit on clan sizes to like 50? I feel anything above 50 would make the clans less personal and communal then the bigger clans.

It's preventing everyone else from enjoying the Dojo aspects of the game unless they join one of the monolithic "to get the content" clans, instead of having fun in smaller "Play with friends and build a ninja clubhouse" clans.

>_>

 

You realize Warbros had almost 1500 before Update 8 even came out right.... 

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