Suggestion: Reliable But Challenging Way Of Obtaining Void Keys.

[Quetzhal]

Like a random void key being a definite drop on Wave 25 of Defense (for example; then number depends, of course, and can be scaled accordingly). Alternatively, Void keys of different tiers dropping at Wave 15, 30, and 45. If the latter is done, rewards for each tier should scale accordingly.

Right now, Void keys are very difficult and tedious to obtain by grinding. Some are able to obtain them quite easily by sheer luck, yes, but others go through hours of missions without finding anything. Moreover, the current drops encourage people to play Defense missions to Wave 5 repeatedly, or to just run M Prime over and over until they get the keys they want. This is less than optimal, as neither of these are fun activities and more likely than not will just burn out the player.

My solution: Give players a goal. Not just blindly running the same (exceptionally easy) thing over and over again, but make them work for it. Wave 25 does take a decent amount of time to get to, and can be challenging enough depending on what Defense you're running. If not, just raise the wave number (or put a limit on the number of keys you can obtain in this way over the course of a day). Keep the low drop rate chances for other missions like the raids and capture missions and so on, because it's a nice surprise for players playing those missions and because Solo players will still be able to obtain them.

Why? Because as far as I'm concerned, the Void is the current endgame. New exploration mechanics, new combat mechanics - this sort of stuff is what will keep players playing the game for a long time, but right now there are two problems.

First, it's too difficult to get there. That means the majority of players will be spending their time farming for Void keys instead of actually playing in the Void, and even then, it's up to RNG whether or not they'll actually get that key. Some people could spend days farming for that one chance of a single Void mission. These players may burn out and decide to leave the game for a while. Making Void keys more reliably obtained may resolve this, and has the benefit of encouraging players to play together to higher level waves.

Additionally, players who get a taste of the Void and can't get enough may very well decide to make some Void key purchases. One of the best ways to get people to buy stuff is to make it feel like they're not being forced to do so; right now, to many people, that's what it feels like because there's RNG on top of RNG, and getting to the meat of the fun takes too long for it to be worth it.

Second, the way the rewards are distributed means players are more likely than not going to focus on the end reward rather than the game itself, which will result in player frustration (as we've seen in the forums, though I've not felt it myself since I've only played the Void a bit). I'll likely address this in a separate topic, although various suggestions have been posted around the forums. 8BitRager's own suggestion is one in particular. (Or see this topic for my suggestion.)

I am aware that there are, arguably, advantages to the system as is - which is why I welcome thoughts and feedback on this alternative.

TL;DR: Void keys as they are make people frustrated and feel like they're being forced into buying stuff. To fix this, make it difficult and challenging to obtain one, but make it a reliable reward, like a high-wave defense mission reward. This suggestion is based on my observations in the forums.

Edited May 28, 2013 by Quetzhal

[Kiteless]

Add an optional objective to high level missions: perfect stealth run to a specific location to steal a void key (and for some reason, the key ends up exploding in your back pocket if you get caught after stealing it... because stealth), in addition to the standard objective.

 

Make these optional objectives active only on specific missions (randomly change them each day?), and make each of these optional objectives only able to be tried once per mission per day.

 

Stealth has purpose, and things aren't completely overcentralized to defense missions anymore. Bam.

Edited May 27, 2013 by Kiteless

[Quetzhal]

Add an optional objective to high level missions: perfect stealth run to a specific location to steal a void key (and for some reason, the key ends up exploding in your back pocket if you get caught after stealing it... because stealth), in addition to the standard objective.

 

Make these optional objectives active only on specific missions (randomly change them each day?), and make each of these optional objectives only able to be tried once per mission per day.

 

Stealth has purpose, and things aren't completely overcentralized to defense missions anymore. Bam.

This is also a cool way of doing it... so will I be damaged if I'm spotted? :P What elemental damage does an exploding Void key do?

I do actually like this idea. Stealth is fun and - at the moment - completely pointless. It would be more of a thing for solo players, though, while Defense is more for teams?

Edited May 27, 2013 by Quetzhal

[TehJumpingJawa]

Makes perfect sense.

Though given Warframe's current nonsensical loot scaling & progression systems, I doubt we'll see it implemented that way any time soon.

[Kiteless]

This is also a cool way of doing it... so will I be damaged if I'm spotted? :P What elemental damage does an exploding Void key do?

 

I do actually like this idea. Stealth is fun and - at the moment - completely pointless. It would be more of a thing for solo players, though, while Defense is more for teams?

 

Well, what element does your dying hopes and dreams count as?

 

It likely wouldn't favour PUG teams, but if you get a group of people together on Skype, you could probably coordinate some pretty cool stuff. I know there were countless times when doing a stealth run where I wish I could be in two places at once. Imagine a coordinated stealth run where you have 2-4 people moving together and methodically taking out groups of enemies at the same time?

 

It would certainly add a lot of depth to team play, for those that wanted.

 

And you could keep the random rewards for those that just want to slug away at the RNG.

[Quetzhal]

Well, what element does your dying hopes and dreams count as?

 

It likely wouldn't favour PUG teams, but if you get a group of people together on Skype, you could probably coordinate some pretty cool stuff. I know there were countless times when doing a stealth run where I wish I could be in two places at once. Imagine a coordinated stealth run where you have 2-4 people moving together and methodically taking out groups of enemies at the same time?

 

It would certainly add a lot of depth to team play, for those that wanted.

 

And you could keep the random rewards for those that just want to slug away at the RNG.

I think it'd be interesting if this were a new type of missions where players had to sneak their way to one central point and start from different but connected locations, allowing them different positions and vantage points to help one another. Starting at the same point would likely result in that situation where all the players are just jostling each other in a vent and then a Grineer spawns behind them and alerts everything. :p But that would really encourage coordination, even in PUG teams. A good reward would ensure people would actually do it.

Also, the central room would have lots of enemies and require more coordination. Stealth should probably be refined for that sort of thing, though. Enemies spawn behind you and all that...

But anyway, the reason I suggested Defense is because it's what most players considered to be endgame before Update 8, and (shouldn't?) require too much code to implement as a fix. Honestly, ideally it'd be the reward of an epic Orokin boss fight because of some creatures that escaped from the Void or something, haha.

[Quetzhal]

Bumping this as some people seem to be wanting a more challenging way to obtain Void keys, and I'd like to hear some thoughts. :)