Did Some Tests, Can Confirm Duration Has An Effect On Excalibur Exalted Blade Now Too

[--Sensei--]

I tested 2 builds for excal because I noticed a huge energy drain on his exalted blade, I had assumed the drain was only going to affect the listed frames DE named in the patch notes and left excal alone.

 

Unfortunately this is not true.

 

 

With this build^ 15% duration and 140% efficiency exalted blade from 400 energy pool lasted 1 min 31.29 secs from the energy drain

 

 

With this build^ 229% duration and 80% efficiency exalted blade from 400 energy pool lasted 5 min 6.02 secs from the energy drain

 

 

Both tests were conducted in the simulacrum for equal starting and finishing times.

 

 

 

 

Another test I did with same duration as 2nd build with lowered efficiency 

 

 

similar to the 2nd picture with the only difference being 50% efficiency instead of 80%

 

Exalted blade lasted 4 min 3.84 secs

 

It seems efficiency do contribute some what to the drain on toggle abilities.

 

As you can see the 2 builds with the same duration but different efficiency. The one with higher efficiency lasted about a minute more.

 

So efficiency does have an effect on the drain of energy just duration outweighs the efficiency more so in terms of costs.

 

 

 

 

I've made a mid tier build by replacing blind range with fleeting expertise http://goo.gl/ZTnR5L basically 0.63 energy per tick with 195% power str, 160% efficiency and 169% duration effectively giving exalted blade a 10 min+ duration. I'm still going to stick with my full power str build with high duration though http://goo.gl/Xrec5h with 229% duration and 285% power str, but I'll use the mid tier build for mid-lv play tbh since exalted blade in mid lv stuff is overkill.

 

 

Also interesting to note, fleeting expertise yielded a higher reduction gain than streamline in this situation despite the duration loss.

Edited October 2, 2015 by --Sensei--

[Flowen231]

I tested 2 builds for excal because I noticed a huge energy drain on his exalted blade, I had assumed the drain was only going to affect the listed frames DE named in the patch notes and left excal alone.

 

Unfortunately this is not true.

 

 

With this build^ 15% duration and 140% efficiency exalted blade from 400 energy pool lasted 1 min 31.29 secs from the energy drain

 

 

With this build^ 229% duration and 80% efficiency exalted blade from 400 energy pool lasted 5 min 6.02 secs from the energy drain

 

 

Both tests were conducted in the simulacrum for equal starting and finishing times.

I'm at work atm and can't test it myself, but does the efficiency affect the drain at all, or did duration just become the new toggle efficiency?

[RyanRain]

He used an iPhone timer to precisely determine this. Very accurate. 10/10 and trustworthy

[--Sensei--]

I'm at work atm and can't test it myself, but does the efficiency affect the drain at all, or did duration just become the new toggle efficiency?

I can run a third test without any mods besides primed flow on to see if it affected the toggle efficiency at all, will get back to you in a few.

 

 

With just Primed flow on and no other mods, it lasted 2 mins 39.80 secs

 

Nope looks like efficiency mods do not have an effect on toggle abilities energy drain.

Edited October 2, 2015 by --Sensei--

[lioganda]

Even tho they listed changed to warframe abilities, ALL toggleable abilities were affected, not just the listed ones. The ones listed were just ones changed to help compensate for these changes

[Flowen231]

I can run a third test without any mods besides primed flow on to see if it affected the toggle efficiency at all, will get back to you in a few.

 

 

With just Primed flow on and no other mods, it lasted 2 mins 39.80 secs

 

Nope looks like efficiency mods do not have an affected on toggle abilities energy drain.

Thanks papa. And GOD DIGGITY DAMNIT I called it! I knew this was going to be a nerf for some frames lol. Now you essentially have to choose between casting abilities, or toggled ones on frames that have both.

[lioganda]

Thanks papa. And GOD DIGGITY DAMNIT I called it! I knew this was going to be a nerf for some frames lol. Now you essentially have to choose between casting abilities, or toggled ones on frames that have both.

 Or you can just mod for a happy medium for both, like i have done for all of my toggleable ability frames :P this change was well needed and im glad they did this cause now my toggleable abilities now require WAY less energy than before

[Flowen231]

 Or you can just mod for a happy medium for both, like i have done for all of my toggleable ability frames :P this change was well needed and im glad they did this cause now my toggleable abilities now require WAY less energy than before

Believe me, if there were enough mod slots for a happy medium on every frame I wouldn't mind this in the slightest. And I will admit that not every frame has a problem here, but the fact that this has a super negative effect on some rubs me the wrong way.

[--Sensei--]

I can run a third test without any mods besides primed flow on to see if it affected the toggle efficiency at all, will get back to you in a few.

 

 

With just Primed flow on and no other mods, it lasted 2 mins 39.80 secs

 

Nope looks like efficiency mods do not have an effect on toggle abilities energy drain.

 

I would like to retract this as I did another test with this build

 

 

similar to the 2nd picture with the only difference being 50% efficiency instead of 80%

 

Exalted blade lasted 4 min 03.84 secs

 

It seems efficiency mods do have SOME effect on toggle abilities.

Edited October 2, 2015 by --Sensei--

[lioganda]

I would like to retract this as I did another test with this build

 

 

similar to the 2nd picture with the only difference being 50% efficiency instead of 80%

 

Exalted blade lasted 4 min 03.84 secs

You do realize you can now check your energy drain in your waframe ability tab in the arsenal, and see its effect with mods, instead of having to test with a timer haha

[DrBorris]

Toggle abilities should have worked like this in the first place, don't see how this is a supprise.

[--Sensei--]

You do realize you can now check your energy drain in your waframe ability tab in the arsenal, and see its effect with mods, instead of having to test with a timer haha

Really? I've never heard of this before tbh nor seen it.

[TwiceDead]

Toggle abilities should have worked like this in the first place, don't see how this is a supprise.

People are just spoiled, really... This always happens with cases like these. 

[--Sensei--]

Ah, it does tell you how much energy drain per sec it is now!

 

This is useful.

[RyanRain]

its new to this update.

[--Sensei--]

Welp looks like I have to add in another forma for V polarity for the new excal build.

 

http://goo.gl/Xrec5h

 

Atm the most optimal way to build excal's exalted blade now is to forsake efficiency for more duration, ofc you can add in efficiency mods (since they do have an effect on exalted blade's energy drain as well). With this build the energy drain is 1.64 per tick. could be reduced to 1.31 per tick if I replaced either redirection or vitality for streamline. 

 

Basically to make exalted blade like before, going to have to forgo efficiency mods.

 

While testing various builds, it's ironic how DE's intent for this toggle ability change was to make use of the frame's other abilities and not just use one. But after doing all these builds, excal is worse off than before with this change, now with a negative range and efficiency to try and retain a plausible exalted blade duration, it has rendered radial blind, slash dash and radial javelin all useless forcing you to only build for 1 skill, exalted blade.

 

Before the change as you can see in the above OP, the first screenie pic, I had 100% range, which allowed me to use radial blind effectively or slash dash due to the 100% range, now with this new build Im doing, I'm going to have 34% power range, 50% efficiency, 229% duration and 285% power strength.

 

So despite DE's attempts with this new change to make all abilities on a frame usable, it has actually adversely affected Excalibur forcing a choice between 1 skill vs 3 other skills. I mean I understand DE's intentions, but this change totally had the opposite effect and has made excal in a worsen state than previously. Before you could utilize all 4 skills with my first pic build, now you can only use 1 with http://goo.gl/Xrec5h lol

Edited October 2, 2015 by --Sensei--

[WhiteCopain]

He used an iPhone timer to precisely determine this. Very accurate. 10/10 and trustworthy

Yeah, because something lasting over double the time of another being a second or two off when we're talking about minutes is pretty awful, what will we do.

[taiiat]

Atm the most optimal way to build excal's exalted blade now is to forsake efficiency for more duration

still wrong.

 

keep trying.

i haven't even changed my Loadout yet and my Energy Drain is less than half of yours.

Efficiency is still highly effective. try again.

 

 

try not being so brickheaded with Mods and actually balance your Mod Stats.

[--Sensei--]

still wrong.

 

keep trying.

i haven't even changed my Loadout yet and my Energy Drain is less than half of yours.

Efficiency is still highly effective. try again.

 

 

try not being so brickheaded with Mods and actually balance your Mod Stats.

No offense, but unlike you, I build for late game, not for things I'm going to be thrashing around with a lato.

 

Efficiency is effective still yes, as stated earlier, but duration outweighs efficiency now in toggle abilities in terms of stat gains/reductions in this predicament.

 

Basically Duration>Efficiency now.

 

My current build is 4 mins+ for EB which lasts more than enough for exalted blade the energy drain is fine at that point.

Edited October 2, 2015 by --Sensei--

[taiiat]

Basically Duration>Efficiency now.

well, this methodology is way less efficient of a method of Killing than many other choices.

so clearly min/max efficiency of Killing is not what you're looking for.

 

 

i'm assuming Energy Cost is not your primary concern, and if that's the case, then why use anything that lowers Energy Cost at all? the min/max you're talking about makes Energy not very relevant.

[--Sensei--]

well, this methodology is way less efficient of a method of Killing than many other choices.

so clearly min/max efficiency of Killing is not what you're looking for.

 

 

i'm assuming Energy Cost is not your primary concern, and if that's the case, then why use anything that lowers Energy Cost at all? the min/max you're talking about makes Energy not very relevant.

 

Your logic does not make sense at all, Since at 50% efficiency, eb only costs 38 energy to cast, and 1.64 per tick afterwards that's 4 mins spent in EB with a 400 energy pool.

 

With efficiency mod added in ie streamline for 80% efficiency, eb would cost 30 energy to cast and consume 1.31 per tick. The difference isn't huge Basically comparing 1 extra min of staying in EB. (This would also require me to remove either a redirection or a vitality to do so, lower Excal's survivability)

 

Anything 4 mins or above is already a long enough duration for EB that it doesn't warrant nerfing its dmg for more efficiency mods. Mostly because in those 4 minutes, you'll have enough time to pick up energy orbs or w/e on the ground to replenish your reserves. 4 mins is a huge window of opportunity.

 

 

 

This is min/maxing. Hence why I can't understand your logic in this.

Edited October 2, 2015 by --Sensei--

[RyanRain]

LMAO 12.7k posts.

 

Essentially, OP is attempting to show how duration affects overall drain for toggleable skills, and did so.

 

lol living on internet forums must be a very satisfying life, I'll never understand it.

[--Sensei--]

I've made a mid tier build by replacing blind range with fleeting expertise http://goo.gl/ZTnR5L. Basically 0.63 energy per tick with 195% power str, 160% efficiency and 169% duration effectively giving exalted blade a 10 min+ duration. I'm still going to stick with my full power str build with high duration though http://goo.gl/Xrec5h with 229% duration and 285% power str, but I'll use the mid tier build for mid-lv play tbh since exalted blade in mid lv stuff is overkill.

 

 

Also interesting to note, fleeting expertise yielded a higher reduction gain than streamline in this situation despite the duration loss.

 

I guess I should edit this into the main post.

Edited October 2, 2015 by --Sensei--

[ToaSirian]

I jut came here to check if the unholy legends were true. Turns out to be worse than i though. DE really has some sort of desaster plan set up...

[Epsik-kun]

Efficiency works on toggles exactly the same as it did before.

Duration affects cost directly by its modifier.

 

These modifiers are multiplicative.

 

For instance, +100% duration implies twice the duration for the same energy. So, when this is applied to a toggle ability, it halves the sustain energy cost (aka "twice the duration for the same energy".

Efficiency then modifies final number.

So, if the duration modifier is 0.15 then of course cost of the ability will be greatly increased - it's a 6.7 times decrease in duration - the cost increases accordingly.