Reason Not To Use Dual Secondaries Or Dual Melee? Here Is One...

[omegaskorpion]

Currently there is no reason not to use dual pistols or dual GRAKATATATATATATAT.

However i suggest few changes to game that would give players reason to use one handed weapons more often than their dual variants.

 

2 Weapon Slots For Secondary And Melee Weapons

 

What does this mean? It means that player is able to take two melee and two secondary weapons, with a twist.

Some weapons will take both weapon slots, these kinds of weapons are heavy like Jag Kitta and Galatine, while light weapons like Skana will take one slot.

This means that you can take two Skanas like normally, but you can customize them both as you want, give them both differend colors and mods.

Same goes For pistols. But not only you can use two pistols with different stats, you are also able to shoot with each hand separately so you can make both pistols suit different targets.

 

Now here was what you can do with two weapons, but lets see what you can do with one weapon...

 

 

Secondary And Melee Weapon Mix Use

 

When you have one pistol and one sword, you can use them both at the same time. You can shoot with the other hand and do melee combos with the other without needing to change weapon all the time.

However this will block the user from using channeling.

 

 

Weapons With Blades (melee parts)

 

Weapons like Akjagara should have their own Melee attacks, that can be used by pressing secondary fire.

These melee type attacks also work with normal and stealh executions.

However compared to melee weapons they have weaker attacks but can be easily combined with shooting and melee.

Shooting and doing melee attacks at the same time without forcing to stop (until mags dry out)

 

 

Shields

 

now this brings us to the most important part... (in my opinion) Shield.

Shields are now their separate weapon and can be used with different weapons like swords and pistols.

You can even use shield as a tactical/riot shield and absorb all damage from front while same time shooting all your enemies with your pistol.

Shields would be the only weapons ingame that absorb all damage so the user can hide behind them without fear of getting damage unlike with other melee weapons. However they don't really work as weapons and only deal damage if you have one hand melee weapon equipped and it has combos that require shield.

 

Shields also block passively damage during combos and while not moving but only from the direction where the shield is facing.

Shields are also some what vunerable to scorpion hooks, while player blocks the scorpion is able to pull the shield and make player lose his balance for short period of time (basicly player is stunned for moment, player wont lose the shield from hook pulls.)

 

 

 

 

New Weapon Type: PDW And Shield

 

Now the shields can be used both with melee and secondary weapons, but this requires that player has shield, sword and only one pistol equipped.

 

PDW are... well smg in other terms. These weapons are weapons like Grakata and player can use them as secondary and primary and even dual wield them without creating blueprints for secondary or primary variants.

They can also be used with shields.

To this gategory the Tetra also fits. (players with dual Tetras O_o )

 

 

Melee + Pistol Execution/Stealth Kill Moves

 

When player has any one hand melee weapon and pistol in other hand, while player does execution to enemy there is change to have gun/blade execution where Tenno punches the sword trough the opponent and places the gun to enemys head and shoots, disroying the head.

 

With shotgun pistol and blade the player punches the blade trough the opponent and then shoots the enemy with the shotgun pistol to send the enemy to fly forward.

 

etc.

Edited October 25, 2015 by omegaskorpion

[Awazx]

+1

[MokutoBunshi]

+2

[DblackShinoob]

And you still want to be called a ninja? Really?

 

Dude, ninjas dont use pistols and shields at same time, thats a grenier thing you know.

 

By the way... the option to equip 2 diferent pistols, looks awesome. But this bring a lot of programim thing, and we dont know how much warfrane staff want to change they mecanics right now.

[TheGundamFrog]

By the way... the option to equip 2 diferent pistols, looks awesome. But this bring a lot of programim thing, and we dont know how much warfrane staff want to change they mecanics right now.

I agree This would add whole world of confusion by adding all these combo things.

Edited October 11, 2015 by TheGundamFrog

[MokutoBunshi]

And you still want to be called a ninja? Really?

 

Dude, ninjas dont use pistols and shields at same time, thats a grenier thing you know.

 

By the way... the option to equip 2 diferent pistols, looks awesome. But this bring a lot of programim thing, and we dont know how much warfrane staff want to change they mecanics right now.

 And yet ninjas CAN use heavy machine guns and grande lanchers with heavy units (rhino) and giant hammers....

 

Yup I think his proposal is sound and if we can have all those things stated above a DEFENCE for said things makes sense.

 

]\'[okuto Bunshi

 

Peace Out.

[(PSN)JiggaJazz]

Sounds cool but its just too much, simplicity is usually the finest trait of a video game.

Besides, everyone would just go versatile primary/burst dps secondary/sustained dps secondary/scindo Prime/utility melee

[taiiat]

your Excalibro there apparently has a Gun for a hand and has duck feet. 

:p

 

 

anyways - having two Sidearms classified as separate Weapons doesn't mean you can shoot at two things at a time. because you can't. you still have one Mouse/Thumbstick, and one Monitor.

 

being able to separate things so you can Cosmetically customize them separately, sure.

but them being mechanically separate doesn't really do much.

 

 

 

a reason to not use Dual Sidearms would be to have Statistical Balance.

instead of Dual Pistols being powercreep over the single - the Dual should actually have the negatives it's supposed to have.

what that means is Dual has much longer Reload, moderately lower Accuracy, more Recoiling Forces.

but the upsides, are larger Magazine, faster RoF (except for Twoooo Grakata since both fire at the same time).

 

and that's it. just because you built two of them, doesn't mean you should get powercreep. the single has more downtimes, but shorter ones, and is more Accurate - the dual is less Accurate, harder to control, and has fewer but longer downtimes, but can dish out a lot more firepower at any given time.

Dual Sidearms shouldn't get arbitrarily increased stats to make them more appealing. that's harmful for content longevity.

 

most Dual Sidearms are like this, but it's just as common that dual versions are powercreep over the single as well - being completely superior.

 

 And yet ninjas CAN use heavy machine guns and grande lanchers with heavy units (rhino) and giant hammers....

while flying through the air and bouncing off of the walls.

a Riot Shield isn't that useful when you're doing that, moving too much.

[omegaskorpion]

I understand you conserns. However.

The dual pistol thing, having 2 differend pistols could be too much, but if they were same pistols (like Magnus and Magnus) but ability to customize each of them would still be pretty cool even if it would be restricted to same type of pistols.

Reloading would be... well... lets say that people can reload each hand separately.

 

Now just like JiggaJazz mentioned

 

Besides, everyone would just go versatile primary/burst dps secondary/sustained dps secondary/scindo Prime/utility melee

 

 

Now this would be somewhat fixed with the fact that the Scindo Prime is heavy weapon, which takes 2 hands unlike the Skana or other one handed weapon (Glaves, whips)

[omegaskorpion]

your Excalibro there apparently has a Gun for a hand and has duck feet. 

:p

 

 

anyways - having two Sidearms classified as separate Weapons doesn't mean you can shoot at two things at a time. because you can't. you still have one Mouse/Thumbstick, and one Monitor.

 

being able to separate things so you can Cosmetically customize them separately, sure.

but them being mechanically separate doesn't really do much.

 

 

 

a reason to not use Dual Sidearms would be to have Statistical Balance.

instead of Dual Pistols being powercreep over the single - the Dual should actually have the negatives it's supposed to have.

what that means is Dual has much longer Reload, moderately lower Accuracy, more Recoiling Forces.

but the upsides, are larger Magazine, faster RoF (except for Twoooo Grakata since both fire at the same time).

 

and that's it. just because you built two of them, doesn't mean you should get powercreep. the single has more downtimes, but shorter ones, and is more Accurate - the dual is less Accurate, harder to control, and has fewer but longer downtimes, but can dish out a lot more firepower at any given time.

Dual Sidearms shouldn't get arbitrarily increased stats to make them more appealing. that's harmful for content longevity.

 

most Dual Sidearms are like this, but it's just as common that dual versions are powercreep over the single as well - being completely superior.

 

while flying through the air and bouncing off of the walls.

a Riot Shield isn't that useful when you're doing that, moving too much.

 

DuckFeetExHandgun Prime Confirmed  :p

(my obviusly bad drawing skills)

 

The separate fire system has worked in many games, games with controllers.

(well most known game which i would not even want to say is cod:s)

And since weapons like quanta can now zoom and still use both fire modes, i think there is change for dual weapons with saparated fire.

 

Now i do agree that the current dual weapons could be balanced with simpler ways but i find them... well lets say they are not as cool as firing with two separate weapons as the whole reason of dual weapons is to fire two weapons, not one weapon (like it feels right now).

But yes, the duals need better balancing (just like every weapon, since the power creep is quite high at the moment)

 

Also, the Riot/tactical/ballistic, the hek people want to call it, would work just like any other shield realy, exepth it would possibly have more protective area than others? O.o

(also is it easy to wall jump with heavy machine guns and melee weapons that weight more than shields)

[taiiat]

The separate fire system has worked in many games, games with controllers.

yes, you could theoretically fire both separately... but what's the advantage? there really isn't one.

you gotss a lotta splainin to do if you want to suggest that you can Reload every Sidearm with one hand (it's really basically impossible without having shelves on your legs).

 

but more importantly, now to shoot at something, you need to press two buttons instead of one. for what benefit? you can't aim the two Guns separately, that's completely impossible with current Consumer technology. so now you're just pressing twice the number of buttons to attack a single target. no real benefit there.

[omegaskorpion]

yes, you could theoretically fire both separately... but what's the advantage? there really isn't one.

you gotss a lotta splainin to do if you want to suggest that you can Reload every Sidearm with one hand (it's really basically impossible without having shelves on your legs).

 

but more importantly, now to shoot at something, you need to press two buttons instead of one. for what benefit? you can't aim the two Guns separately, that's completely impossible with current Consumer technology. so now you're just pressing twice the number of buttons to attack a single target. no real benefit there.

 

Those are realy good points you make.

 

But...

 

Having to fire with two buttons instead of one could be the downside? :P                     (then again its advantage in others eyes)

[DblackShinoob]

Fire with 2 buttons, ok, lets see... i dont think that could happen but, lets try create the mecanical for this... OK.

 

Right and Left buttons of mouse (screw the guys who plays at joystick, we dont care about then :p ), ok, scroll should be the aim button. 

 

Lets play... suppose that i got a automatic weapon, ok hold the buttons, lets kill some mobs, but if that´s a not hold button weapon? suppose that i have to charge to fire, and for the purpose to get to diferent weapons, it has diferent shot times, so, that mecanical will not work properly, making the gameplay annoying. Well thats not the deal that we want, right?

 

:p

[CocoBunnies]

And you still want to be called a ninja? Really?

 

Dude, ninjas dont use pistols and shields at same time, thats a grenier thing you know.

 

By the way... the option to equip 2 diferent pistols, looks awesome. But this bring a lot of programim thing, and we dont know how much warfrane staff want to change they mecanics right now.

ninjas don't use magic spells and rocket launchers either

[omegaskorpion]

Fire with 2 buttons, ok, lets see... i dont think that could happen but, lets try create the mecanical for this... OK.

 

Right and Left buttons of mouse (screw the guys who plays at joystick, we dont care about then :p ), ok, scroll should be the aim button. 

 

Lets play... suppose that i got a automatic weapon, ok hold the buttons, lets kill some mobs, but if that´s a not hold button weapon? suppose that i have to charge to fire, and for the purpose to get to diferent weapons, it has diferent shot times, so, that mecanical will not work properly, making the gameplay annoying. Well thats not the deal that we want, right?

 

:p

 

Ok i dont realy understand what you are after.

 

Simple way to fix the JOYstick problem is to keep the current way of firing with them.

 

And with charging weapons, (there is not a single charging gual weapons unless you mean spin up weapons like Cestra) and even if there very it would be realy simple. Just hold the left or right mouse button until its charged and then release. no that hard.

Spin up weapons only need trigger holding, still easy.

 

Now with differend weapons like lets say you have kraken and magnus in left and right hand, of cource they both have different reload times and reload animations and differend fire rates, they act alone but still work together. However it does not work that well with the current fire system and works better with separate fire system (left click to shoot left gun, right to shoot right gun)

 

Now they dont need to go to the territory where we can use 2 differend side arms but atleast to territory where we can customize each same/double guns differendly.

 

 

 

Now about the overpowered combinations like mareloc with skindo in other hand. Like i said, the weapons have differend weights. so skindo would be too hard to use with one hand just like polearms, 2hand axes hammers ,and swords.

Only one hand weapons have cortesy of being used with one pistol/smg.

[jwya]

Has anyone here used a bronco, then tried the akbronco afterwards? The bronco's short reload allows its user to have less downtime between reloads whereas the akbronco's slower reload tends to be more troublesome.

[omegaskorpion]

Has anyone here used a bronco, then tried the akbronco afterwards? The bronco's short reload allows its user to have less downtime between reloads whereas the akbronco's slower reload tends to be more troublesome.

 

Bronko is one of the rarest examples of one weapon being better than two, however the bronko is also at the ground with the other weak secondary weapons thanks to power creep. There is simply better weapons than bronko with better dual versions.

 

(sad buth truth)

 

(also the mighty shotgun buff did nothing to secondary shotguns so #####)

[weirdee]

While there might be complications with the proposed system, I do agree that dual weapons are basically functionally identical to single hand weapons with different stats.

[EdBazokatone]

Sounds cool and in fact it's something mentioned before.

 

Sadly, it wont happen, at least for melee weapons because of stances. Imagine if the animation team has to redesign every weapon/stance to fit with something else in the other hand, it is a work of years. 

[omegaskorpion]

Sounds cool and in fact it's something mentioned before.

 

Sadly, it wont happen, at least for melee weapons because of stances. Imagine if the animation team has to redesign every weapon/stance to fit with something else in the other hand, it is a work of years. 

 

Well, they would propably let people customize two same weapons, but not let people take 2 compleately differend weapons. (or they could allow people use two differend weapons so long as they are same kind, like one hand swords so they would not need to redo all the stances.)

(machete + sword would not obliviusly work as they use differend stances)

 

Now i think that if pistol/melee combo would happen, it would replace the  channeling while gun and melee are in use. However i dont think they need to replace any melee combos here. (then again, they could create gun/melee combos that are planted to all stances)

[RevenantPrime]

By the way... the option to equip 2 diferent pistols, looks awesome. But this bring a lot of programim thing, and we dont know how much warfrane staff want to change they mecanics right now.

Actually, we do.

Falling through the level and getting stuck in wells are traditional and time honoured "mecanics" that have been here since the dawn of Warfram, they speak for themself.

[DblackShinoob]

Well, they would propably let people customize two same weapons, but not let people take 2 compleately differend weapons. (or they could allow people use two differend weapons so long as they are same kind, like one hand swords so they would not need to redo all the stances.)

(machete + sword would not obliviusly work as they use differend stances)

 

Now i think that if pistol/melee combo would happen, it would replace the  channeling while gun and melee are in use. However i dont think they need to replace any melee combos here. (then again, they could create gun/melee combos that are planted to all stances)

So you need a pistol/sword combo? Try Redeemer then:p

 

Not so new here. :p

[DblackShinoob]

Actually, we do.

Falling through the level and getting stuck in wells are traditional and time honoured "mecanics" that have been here since the dawn of Warfram, they speak for themself.

 

Well RevenantPrime, i know there are thing that should get better, but im not talking about wall or falling issues on the map. We are talking about combat mecanics.

 

I dont care about wall stuck thing... im loki :p

[omegaskorpion]

So you need a pistol/sword combo? Try Redeemer then:p

 

Not so new here. :p

 

yes but if i want to use someting like grakata in other hand and fire sword in other hand? Redeemer cant do that.

 

 

(also redeemer is less like a sword and pistol and more like blade and shotgun)

Edited October 14, 2015 by omegaskorpion

[Aeraxis]

I made a topic alot like this just a couple weeks back:

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/540289-suggestion-loadout-overhaul/