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Opticor Should Have Innate Punch-Through Or Better Aoe


Aetrion
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Currently the Opticor doesn't live up to its potential. While I really love using it, because I'm just a fan of heavy hitting huge caliber weapons, it simply doesn't come together quite as well as it should because it has lackluster AoE instead of more thematically appropriate punch-through.

 

Basically the Opticor will cause an explosion if it hits the environment, however, this only causes a tiny fraction of the Opticor's actual damage, and the size of the AoE isn't spectacular either. It really doesn't hold up as a good AoE weapon because of this. The only way to actually do meaningful damage to multiple targets with one is to put punch-through on it, which means Shred is practically mandatory on the weapon.

 

The Opticor should really have innate punch through, since that's just thematically appropriate for a giant particle beam. Having the same punch through as a Lanka instead of AoE seems reasonable to me. It wouldn't really infringe on the Lanka's role much either, because despite their similarities, the feel between the two weapons is very different, given that the Opticor has no scope, can't hold a charge, isn't a high crit weapon, and inflicts different types of damage.

 

If that isn't an option then the AoE really needs to be more appropriate in its damage to the actual numbers the weapon achieves on a hit. It's simply silly to be hitting things for 16000 damage on a direct hit and 600 with the AoE.

Edited by Aetrion
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I see the Opticor as a cannon that fires beams of intense energy. That energy is absorbed by the target it hits, thus killing that target. If it hits the ground, the enery is absorbed by the ground and anything nearby thus dealing damage in a small AoE. Based on that, I think its mechanics make sense.

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Players are already complaining about this weapon in PvP, and it's decent enough in PvE if you learn how to aim and use one fire rate mod.

This weapon probably doesn't need more buffing.

 

It needs buffing because it's idiotic to have a weapon that has AoE capabilities but does so little damage with its AoE that it might as well not have them the second you fight any enemies that are above level 20. 

 

It's a weapon that has a crapton of downsides to pay for its massive damage and AoE, so it's not exactly fair that it's AoE becomes irrelevant no matter how well you've modded it up. When you have an unranked Opticor the AoE is something like 50% of its direct damage. When you have a fully kitted Opticor the AoE damage is something like 2% of its direct damage. That's just not right.

Edited by Aetrion
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Absolutely not, the Opticor is in a fine state as a weapon.  It's a spike damage tool in its most pure form, not reliant on crit like Bows, hitscan like most Snipers, but having limiting charge mechanics to make its usability lessened and instead reward one who can actively aim while moving and charging.

 

If one can aim, move, and charge all simultaneously they can find a target and basically erase them from the map without fail.  The AoE capabilities it has currently are just a light touch, not intended to deal the finishing blow to a crowd of enemies.

 

Don't use the Opticor and expect it to wreak havoc on a crowd of foes, that isn't the type of tool it is.  There's nothing wrong with the Opticor as it stands.

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Absolutely not, the Opticor is in a fine state as a weapon.  It's a spike damage tool in its most pure form, not reliant on crit like Bows, hitscan like most Snipers, but having limiting charge mechanics to make its usability lessened and instead reward one who can actively aim while moving and charging.

 

If one can aim, move, and charge all simultaneously they can find a target and basically erase them from the map without fail.  The AoE capabilities it has currently are just a light touch, not intended to deal the finishing blow to a crowd of enemies.

 

Don't use the Opticor and expect it to wreak havoc on a crowd of foes, that isn't the type of tool it is.  There's nothing wrong with the Opticor as it stands.

 

Everything you say is perfectly correct, but the weapon is hugely penalized for having AoE capabilities it basically isn't using, and requires multiple formas to actually be decent because of that.

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The Opticor should really have innate punch through, since that's just thematically appropriate for a giant particle beam. H

 

No it doesn't. It is not a continuous energy weapon like a Flux Rifle, it delivers it's energy in one short blast and it ablates matter as best it can at the impact point.

 

The damn AoE should NOT be the focus of the weapon, the AoE is a secondary effect. The point of the damn gun should be to hit what you are actually shooting at, and not be an infinite range, contact-explosion Penta round.

 

If you have trouble using this weapon in the class of mission you are in, then may I suggest a DIFFERENT WEAPON, and not wash down every unique mechanic that comes along so you can optimize your farming times.

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Well it should be one or the other. It's just that when you have an AoE weapon that for one doesn't get it's AoE if you actually hit an enemy with it and secondly doesn't get decent damage on it's AoE no matter how many mods you stack on the weapon there is definitely something broken about it. 

 

No it doesn't. It is not a continuous energy weapon like a Flux Rifle, it delivers it's energy in one short blast and it ablates matter as best it can at the impact point.

 

Why does it do huge amounts of puncture damage if according to you it doesn't actually puncture anything? By your logic it should be doing impact damage.

 

Also how the heck do you figure that a continuous beam should be better at burning through a moving target than a single concentrated blast? If you have a continuous low output beam and the target moves even just an inch you'd have to start cutting through all over again.

Edited by Aetrion
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Well it should be one or the other. It's just that when you have an AoE weapon that for one doesn't get it's AoE if you actually hit an enemy with it and secondly doesn't get decent damage on it's AoE no matter how many mods you stack on the weapon there is definitely something broken about it. 

 

 

Why does it do huge amounts of puncture damage if according to you it doesn't actually puncture anything? By your logic it should be doing impact damage.

 

Also how the heck do you figure that a continuous beam should be better at burning through a moving target than a single concentrated blast? If you have a continuous low output beam and the target moves even just an inch you'd have to start cutting through all over again.

 

What "logic"? There is no proper logic. It's a game. I'm simply saying it fires "one shot" that when it directly hits does no AoE, and does AoE when it hits things with no health. It has a set of mechanics and that's what I'm trying to describe.

 

It's "mechanically" sound in how it functions within the terms of the game. I'm stating that I don't find flaws in what it currently does, while you are only interested in turning it into another Penta because you want to use it as a Penta, rather then shooting things directly.

 

Stop trying to fit real world rules into something just because YOU want to get more killing power out of it. That's all you want is it not? You are not satisfied with the Opticor doing vasts damage to single targets - as it has been designed - and instead want it to AoE for vast damage because at an arbitrary point in your games, the AoE stops killing the trash.

 

My comment for continuous fire weapons is another mechanics things in WF. Because of how damage/procs are calculated. They can't do damage a ton of times a second because it can't send that, it's not a real world example, and anyway we are dealing with sci-fi so what is this "low power output beam" you speak of? I seem to remember the Synod Gammacor wiping maps, so "low power" just means whatever DE makes the "numbers" and has nothing to do with what a beam looks like.

 

If you want to compare known things, Light Sabers are also "continuous beam weapons" and they don't seem to need to stay in one spot to cut things either, while Blaster type "one shot" weapons in that same system, even from ship mounted weapons, are considered "Particle Cannons"

 

"Consequently, bolts usually dissipated in a small, but violent, explosion of extreme heat and force upon contact with an unshielded surface, sometimes leaving blast points. Weapons such as Han Solo's DL-44 heavy blaster pistol and the E-11 blaster rifle could cause incredible destruction, and had the power to blow large chunks from stone walls and smaller holes and pockmarks out of durasteel bulkheads"

 

which strangely enough sounds what DE was aiming for with the Opticor.

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And they failed utterly to provide a weapon that has AoE damage that's worth all the penalties the weapon takes for having it. 

 

As the Opticor currently works the charge-up is what determines the power of the AoE, except the AoE is never strong enough to actually be worth charging up. Given that you have to install pretty substantial mods, including corrupted mods that hit your weapon with other penalties to get the charge time down to a useful level I don't feel it's unreasonable to expect the weapon to actually do something when you charge it up. 

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You're attaching a lot of misconceived concepts onto the Opticor, it is not an AoE weapon in terms of its design aspects.  The Opticor is a single-target obliteration weapon which can be used at any range due to its traits of being hitscan and having pinpoint accuracy (Heavy Caliber doesn't reduce its accuracy even).  On the flip-side of punch through, it doesn't really need to encroach needlessly into the realm of Bows or the Lanka by default.  If you want punch through on the Opticor you can simply slap an appropriate mod onto it to give it this trait.

 

The AoE is trait is nothing more than an aftertouch, not a core aspect of the weapon.  The Opticor doesn't need an arbitrarily improved AoE nor should it get built-in punch through.  It's a single-target tool which effectively guarantees the death of what you decide to target.  This single-target design nature in turn means it doesn't need built in punch through.

 

If you don't want a weapon focused on taking out singular foes, then simply choose not to utilize the Opticor.  There are other weapons which deal far lesser damage but, in turn, are able to damage more targets in tandem easily.  For weapons to have worthwhile variation, they need to have distinct traits rather than being a bunch of homogenized things.

  • The Bows have charge time, deal extremely high damage, have innate punch through, has projectile drop (on most), but are not hitscan.
  • The Lanka has charge time, deals solid damage, has a high deal of innate punch through, has perfect accuracy, but is not hitscan.
  • The Opticor has charge time, deals very high damage, has not innate punch through, but is hitscan.

Each of these tools has its own unique realm of play and style, a reason to exist amongst one another as various weapons.  With regards to balancing one cannot simply justify giving the Opticor innate punch through.

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You're attaching a lot of misconceived concepts onto the Opticor, it is not an AoE weapon in terms of its design aspects.  The Opticor is a single-target obliteration weapon which can be used at any range due to its traits of being hitscan and having pinpoint accuracy (Heavy Caliber doesn't reduce its accuracy even).  On the flip-side of punch through, it doesn't really need to encroach needlessly into the realm of Bows or the Lanka by default.  If you want punch through on the Opticor you can simply slap an appropriate mod onto it to give it this trait.

 

The AoE is trait is nothing more than an aftertouch, not a core aspect of the weapon.  The Opticor doesn't need an arbitrarily improved AoE nor should it get built-in punch through.  It's a single-target tool which effectively guarantees the death of what you decide to target.  This single-target design nature in turn means it doesn't need built in punch through.

 

If you don't want a weapon focused on taking out singular foes, then simply choose not to utilize the Opticor.  There are other weapons which deal far lesser damage but, in turn, are able to damage more targets in tandem easily.  For weapons to have worthwhile variation, they need to have distinct traits rather than being a bunch of homogenized things.

 

  • The Bows have charge time, deal extremely high damage, have innate punch through, has projectile drop (on most), but are not hitscan. have not only high crit but red crit capabilities to far out damage any weapon in the game
  • The Lanka has charge time, deals solid damage, has a high deal of innate punch through, has perfect accuracy, but is not hitscan.is getting its rework soon ill judge it later
  • The Opticor has a very very long charge time, deals very high damage, has not innate punch through, but is hitscan.crits twice in a blue moon requires fire rate mods to become reasonably useful thus reducing its overall damage output

     

     

 

Each of these tools has its own unique realm of play and style, a reason to exist amongst one another as various weapons.  With regards to balancing one cannot simply justify giving the Opticor innate punch through.

fixed it your welcome.

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fixed it your welcome.

 

Fixed what exactly?

 

"red crits"

 

So? if the red crit damage is still LOWER then a normal damage shot, the red number is just "pretty" and meaningless.

A max damage Opticor that does not Crit OR Multi-shot still does more damage in a single shot then a max damage Dread that manages both.

 

"reduce damage output"

"very very long charge time"

 

The Opticor will do 4 times the damage of a bow when both are modded, hence its child play to Mod brute force damage down to fire faster and STILL beat a bow if "damage" is all you care about. You can get the fire rate under a second and still kill everything just fine at infinite range, with zero ammo problems, while still being able to mod full damage as a weapon to focus and kill units bows will no longer kill instantly later.

 

 

You can have a fast fire weapon that does bow equivalent damage across the map with a built in basic AoE, or a slower single heavy target remover.

 

I fail to see how much more flexible you can make a weapon.

 

 

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