Is Something Wrong With The Redeemer?

[Rhaenxys]

Hi everyone, i was trying the redeemer for the first time after watching multiple videos about this weapon and is this weapon nerfed or something?

 

- It has damage falloff.

 

- The charge attacks is suppose to have 10 pellets but the spread is huge so most of the time only 2-3 pellets would hit, each pellet does mediocre damage, a glaive does way more damage in one hit without any spread.

 

- channeling is a energy suicide, it takes energy for each pellet.

 

Maybe there is something wrong with the damage as i was reading the wiki section and there was comments like this:

 

"

Yep, tested in game versus level 1-3 grineer.  Shots from the front while they were alerted were getting between 60-something to 140ish damage.  Shots from stealth were getting about 300-400 damage (because of the innate punch through often you'll get headshots even from behind) and complete headshots from stealth were getting about 600-700 damage.

Definitely got the crap stealth-nerfed out of it for no reason."

 

 

"Charged shot now is 75, not 750.

Stealth nerf of underused melee\gun or horrible mistake?

Not going to farm High Noon any time soon."

 

"can anyone else confirm if this got nerfed? it isnt killing anything any more. fully modded even.

spoiled strike, pressure point, blast damage. energy channel and focus energy. all maxed,

i have melee auto aim turned on via options.. its like its either missing, or the charged dmg is broken.

to clarify when i use a normal melee. the target literaly explodes from over damage (  was testing in odd)  yet even crawlers were not going down from a charge. its hard to see with all the numbers, yet i didnt notice any pop ups..... i am using the high noon stance, havent tested combo attacks yet, just charge."

 

So damage wise, seems like something is wrong, even fully modded.

[unknow99]

Also : you can't do the charge attack while being crouched!!!

 

Grrrr that really annoys me!!! Why can't it be like the Glaive? Why is the character forced to stand up?!!

[xlraistlx]

Just ran an assassination of Jackal, redeemer still one shots it without being kneeled.

 

The charged shot is a shotgun and as the others, the damage fall off it's capped at half damage.

Last time I used it there was a bug where all the pellets would hit on the marker of your weapon, it was fixed. Again, spread should be expected, is a shotgun.

 

No, a glaive won't be able to do as much damage as the Redeemer can do.

--

 

First quote; I'm guessing dude was way to close. The Redeemer's charged shot produces a blast that deals blast damage and ragdolls the enemy, but in comparison to the pellets hitting, it does minimal damage. It's listed under tips section on the wikia.

 

Second quote; Redeemer's charged shot deals a total of 750 damage, divided in 10 pellets, basic math. Same response given as a reply to the comment ont he wikia.

[Monsterwithin]

Also : you can't do the charge attack while being crouched!!!

 

Grrrr that really annoys me!!! Why can't it be like the Glaive? Why is the character forced to stand up?!!

Another thing with the redeemer, is when you do the spin attack, you keep on sliding instead of getting back up like every other melee spin attack.

[Rhaenxys]

Just ran an assassination of Jackal, redeemer still one shots it without being kneeled.

 

The charged shot is a shotgun and as the others, the damage fall off it's capped at half damage.

Last time I used it there was a bug where all the pellets would hit on the marker of your weapon, it was fixed. Again, spread should be expected, is a shotgun.

 

No, a glaive won't be able to do as much damage as the Redeemer can do.

--

 

First quote; I'm guessing dude was way to close. The Redeemer's charged shot produces a blast that deals blast damage and ragdolls the enemy, but in comparison to the pellets hitting, it does minimal damage. It's listed under tips section on the wikia.

 

Second quote; Redeemer's charged shot deals a total of 750 damage, divided in 10 pellets, basic math. Same response given as a reply to the comment ont he wikia.

As it is right now, a glaive explosion with channeling does way more damage than redeemer using less energy and in nearly the same amount of time, it wouldnt be a problem if channeling with redeemer would consume energy for each shot and not per pellet.

 

Thanks for the info though.

[DoomFruit]

Here are the nerfs which I have definitely experienced:

-Can no longer tighten the pellet spread by zooming in while charging up.

-Can no longer cancel the post-shot flailing animation (reload?) by pressing the reload key.

-Can no longer charge up and fire without swinging the weapon first.

-Swings affect a much smaller volume than they used to (less range, strange arcs - for instance, try breaking a crate with the first swing).

I don't know if the actual damage was reduced, because I'm no longer able to reliably hit enemies with the shot. I know that enemies don't die anywhere near as fast as they used to, but that might be because I can no longer land consistent headshots. Likewise, I can't say for sure whether the redeemer has acquired damage falloff because of the now atrocious accuracy.

Whatever the case, this has basically removed the Redeemer from my list of workable melee choices. Less damage coupled with less reliable application of said damage. It was always outclassed as a pure melee weapon by most other things, but it used to make up for that with reliable ranged power. Not any more.

Right now, I've switched back to the Glaive Prime, and it is kinda neat (stupid self-damaging explosions notwithstanding), but I don't like it anywhere near as much as I did the old Redeemer.

EDIT: and I'm really getting fed up with the forum eating every single bit of formatting I try to put in if I don't hit "preview post" first.

Edited November 27, 2015 by DoomFruit

[Enno69]

"Can no longer charge up and fire without swinging the weapon first." Unless the change happened during this week, that ain't true. Need to test it myself, has always worked as advertised for me. Though I use this gunblade against heavies for the garanteed knockdown on blast, not for the damage itself which falls off quickly.

[unknow99]

So to answer the title, I'd say yes.

"Can no longer charge up and fire without swinging the weapon first." Unless the change happened during this week, that ain't true. Need to test it myself, has always worked as advertised for me. Though I use this gunblade against heavies for the garanteed knockdown on blast, not for the damage itself which falls off quickly.

Are you sure? Whenever I want to shoot, my warframe does the first attack before charging... :/

 

(AND FRIGGIN' STANDS UP WHEN I'M BEHIND COVER!!!)

[RealPandemonium]

As it is right now, a glaive explosion with channeling does way more damage than redeemer using less energy and in nearly the same amount of time, it wouldnt be a problem if channeling with redeemer would consume energy for each shot and not per pellet.

 

Thanks for the info though.

Couple of things.  First off, channeling can only trigger thrown melee explosion while in flight.  Channeling bonuses cannot modify the explosion's properties in any way.

 

Glaive Prime has the highest throw damage at 170.  Even if you assume an auto-headshot on humanoids, the damage is 340, vs Redeemer's bodyshot maxcase of 750.  Redeemer can also be boosted with channeling, while glaivesplosion cannot.  There isn't a clear-cut winner, IMO.  

[Rhaenxys]

Couple of things.  First off, channeling can only trigger thrown melee explosion while in flight.  Channeling bonuses cannot modify the explosion's properties in any way.

 

Glaive Prime has the highest throw damage at 170.  Even if you assume an auto-headshot on humanoids, the damage is 340, vs Redeemer's bodyshot maxcase of 750.  Redeemer can also be boosted with channeling, while glaivesplosion cannot.  There isn't a clear-cut winner, IMO.  

While you are right on some points there are other things to take into account:

 

Redeemer has a spread and a huge one, while the glaive prime always does full damage and doesnt have damage falloff, as it is right now the glaive is more of a AoE weapon (with the explosion) with in theory less damage in single target than the redeemer.

 

The problem comes with having both, a huge spread and damage falloff on the redeemer, only one penalization is needed, having both of them just kills the weapon over a glaive.

 

The energy comsuption while channeling with the redeemer is atrocious and there is no reason to change it to consume ammo per shot and not per pellet, it will help to deal with the damage falloff and the spread, the redeemer will have his place as a single target melee range weapon (the punchthrough is a bit short) while glaives will remain as the first choice for AoE damage.

Edited November 28, 2015 by Rhaenxys

[RealPandemonium]

The problem comes with having both, a huge spread and damage falloff on the redeemer, only one penalization is needed, having both of them just kills the weapon over a glaive.

 

The energy comsuption while channeling with the redeemer is atrocious and there is no reason to change it to consume ammo per shot and not per pellet, it will help to deal with the damage falloff and the spread, the redeemer will have his place as a single target melee range weapon (the punchthrough is a bit short) while glaives will remain as the first choice for AoE damage.

The spread/falloff is so that you don't use it a sniper and actually use it as a shotgun.  

 

The energy consumption when channeling can indeed be pretty ridiculous, but you can use channeling efficiency mods to cut the cost to 1per pellet (10 per full burst.)  Adding Life Strike will raise the cost to 2 per pellet (20 per full burst) but will also allow you to infinitely sustain both health and energy using a Rage build.  Perhaps they should halve the number of pellets in the burst (and double the damage per pellet) or double channeling efficiency in order to make Redeemer's charge attack more channeling-friendly.