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Big Nethcode Problems


SergeOvD
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More thah half year we have conclave, and devs still can't fix netcode.

 

Examples:

- Asian or murican kids warping all time and don't gain dmg even if i see dmg numbers on my screen. 

- Host jump everytime and move like  sonic  -  i can't deal dmg cuz this guy move not smooth or he even don't gain any dmg with dmg numbers on my screen (and my friend screen).

- After all laggs this 12 years old kid kill me cuz of game bug what show my warframe body on enemy screen in older position (like .500 sec ago).

 

- Host changed several times during the match - tasks are not counted.

 

I can write much more examples.

When will we see a new netcode?

Edited by SergeOvD
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No amount of changes to the netcode will fix problems caused by laggy hosts or bad internet connections. Just to let you know.

Actually, it can make a huge difference, netcode right now in Warframe is just bad, even with good hosts and good internet.

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Actually, it can make a huge difference, netcode right now in Warframe is just bad, even with good hosts and good internet.

Not if the hosts have a poor internet connection or if your connection is poor.

 

What I'm saying is that many times when a poor internet connection or PC hardware issue on the client or host side is the actual problem, people blame it on the "netcode".

 

If you're seeing players rubberbanding around, that's a sign that somewhere along the line someone's connection is not very good; it could be either your connection, the rubberbanding player's connection or the host's connection. It could also be due to the host's PC not being capable enough to host a game (it cannot process all of the events happening in the game and struggles to keep up, resulting in delayed data being sent out to clients). As I said, no amount of "netcode" changes will fix problems that rest with laggy/poor connections; that problem rests entirely with connection speed and latency. Fixing speed may simply be getting a better ISP package or switching ISPs to one that has better up/down speeds, but fixing latency would literally require users to physically relocate in the real world to be geographically closer to one another.

 

In the end, unless someone has experience in writing or checking "netcode" (in this case the code involved in client/host communication within the game) AS WELL as access to the game's source code to actually review and check the code in the game's engine, one cannot objectively say that there's a problem with the "netcode", especially when issues being listed are almost always out of the game's hands (in that the game cannot actually prevent or alleviate the problems, such as high latency between the host and client, et cetera). 

 

So no, using the "must be a problem with the 'netcode'" blanket statement doesn't really help identify the issue. We don't know where the thread starter is located geographically, whether they have their in-game region setting set to the region of the world they're in, what sort of internet service they're using (dialup, DSL, cable, cellular, satellite, fiber optic, et cetera), what sort of up/down speeds they have, what sort of hardware they're running on... 

 

With so little information, blaming it on the netcode is sort of like saying that someone has the flu because their foot itches. We need a lot more information to make an accurate diagnosis of the issue so that the actual problem can be addressed.

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No amount of changes to the netcode will fix problems caused by laggy hosts or bad internet connections. Just to let you know.

Dude u are just liar.

 

Im game dev and im know that changes can make nethcode better.

 

Even with my perfect host i see this poor and badly optimized netcode.

Edited by SergeOvD
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Dude u are just liar.

Im game dev and im know that changes can make nethcode better.

Even with my perfect host i see this poor and badly optimized netcode.

Which game do you develop for? Do you hold a position as a Software Engineer or Network Engineer?

And how do you know that Warframe's netcode (there's no "h" in "netcode") is so bad? Do you have access to the game's source code or have you managed to reverse engineer it by observing executed machine code?

Because without being able to check the actual code handling client/host communications you can't really chalk it up to bad netcode. You could have very easily been matched with another player who became the host of the match and had poor internet connectivity (resulting in you and everyone else lagging).

If you're going to be calling me a liar (despite my working as a computer and software engineer), I'd really like it if you could reinforce your claims and show that you are actually familiar with netcode and internet host/client communications, because the manner in which you're making your claims is very suspect.

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Which game do you develop for? Do you hold a position as a Software Engineer or Network Engineer?

And how do you know that Warframe's netcode (there's no "h" in "netcode") is so bad? Do you have access to the game's source code or have you managed to reverse engineer it by observing executed machine code?

Because without being able to check the actual code handling client/host communications you can't really chalk it up to bad netcode. You could have very easily been matched with another player who became the host of the match and had poor internet connectivity (resulting in you and everyone else lagging).

If you're going to be calling me a liar (despite my working as a computer and software engineer), I'd really like it if you could reinforce your claims and show that you are actually familiar with netcode and internet host/client communications, because the manner in which you're making your claims is very suspect.

In my company (Ubi Ukraine) Im lvl designer and tech artist (also im not bad programmer), so im understand what im talking about when im talk about nethcode in PvP games what i play from 90x. I understand that a lot depends on the player's host. If u think that this game have nice nethcode for 4 vs 4 pvp fights and developers can't add some "smoothing" or make it better u are wrong - it requires only time and money. 

 

Warframe (netcode) is designed and optimized for opposition against "AI" but not vs other players where needed "cosmetic precision" when it comes to FPS (TPS). Low popularity of PvP is the main problem - there is no reason to play PvP because poor rewards, also the fun of PVP here questionable. Not many players - not enough bad reviews.

 

I played PvP with friends who have good internet. I have a great internet (I was the host). We played 3 on 4 (Im and 6 friends). Movement of the characters was not smooth, bullets sometimes flew through the characters without causing damage (I was not alone with such problems). This is clearly a problem with netcode.

 

I hope you understand me. My "conversational" english is not so good.

Edited by SergeOvD
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In my company (Ubi Ukraine) Im lvl designer and tech artist (also im not bad programmer), so im understand what im talking about when im talk about nethcode in PvP games what i play from 90x. I understand that a lot depends on the player's host. If u think that this game have nice nethcode for 4 vs 4 pvp fights and developers can't add some "smoothing" or make it better u are wrong - it requires only time and money. 

 

Warframe (netcode) is designed and optimized for opposition against "AI" but not vs other players where needed "cosmetic precision" when it comes to FPS (TPS). Low popularity of PvP is the main problem - there is no reason to play PvP because poor rewards, also the fun of PVP here questionable. Not many players - not enough bad reviews.

 

I played PvP with friends who have good internet. I have a great internet (I was the host). We played 3 on 4 (Im and 6 friends). Movement of the characters was not smooth, bullets sometimes flew through the characters without causing damage (I was not alone with such problems). This is clearly a problem with netcode.

 

I hope you understand me. My "conversational" english is not so good.

I have a few follow up questions regarding the issues you've been experiencing based on the information you've provided:

 

- How do you know you were the host of the match? If a host migration occurs, that means the actual host lost connection and that the host was passed to a different player selected from the group. Namely, if a host migration occurs and you're still connected to other players, that means you are not the host. If you were the host and a host migration occurred, you would have been kicked back to the Liset because you would have been dropped from the game (you wouldn't even see the host migration prompt if you were the host of the match).

 

- Were you able to constantly query latency and hardware performance data from all connected players? It is certainly possible that only specific players who were connected did not have a very good connection or did not have PCs that could run the game well enough, resulting in rubberbanding/jerky movement. This is doubly so if you were not actually the match's host and the actual host had a poor connection or poor hardware performance.

 

- Again, without actually having access to the source code or the character model files (for the "cosmetic precision" you mentioned), how are you coming to the conclusion that the netcode is to blame?

 

As I've said repeatedly, while netcode improvements may alleviate some problems, it is not necessarily a panacea for the issues you've listed. Much of what you described sounds a lot more like poor connectivity on other players' parts or that the host of the match did not have a robust enough PC to host PvP matches, and that you may have not actually been the host of the matches.

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I have a few follow up questions regarding the issues you've been experiencing based on the information you've provided:

 

- How do you know you were the host of the match? If a host migration occurs, that means the actual host lost connection and that the host was passed to a different player selected from the group. Namely, if a host migration occurs and you're still connected to other players, that means you are not the host. If you were the host and a host migration occurred, you would have been kicked back to the Liset because you would have been dropped from the game (you wouldn't even see the host migration prompt if you were the host of the match).

 

- Were you able to constantly query latency and hardware performance data from all connected players? It is certainly possible that only specific players who were connected did not have a very good connection or did not have PCs that could run the game well enough, resulting in rubberbanding/jerky movement. This is doubly so if you were not actually the match's host and the actual host had a poor connection or poor hardware performance.

 

- Again, without actually having access to the source code or the character model files (for the "cosmetic precision" you mentioned), how are you coming to the conclusion that the netcode is to blame?

 

As I've said repeatedly, while netcode improvements may alleviate some problems, it is not necessarily a panacea for the issues you've listed. Much of what you described sounds a lot more like poor connectivity on other players' parts or that the host of the match did not have a robust enough PC to host PvP matches, and that you may have not actually been the host of the matches.

I play with this guys many other games (like cs go and bf4) and i know what rig they have and what connection. Im leave match in the end and they see host migration - its mean im host, im get host with group lead few times.

 

Im see that netcode is bad cuz even on my host players can't shoot me (and one of them my bro sit in my room and don't deal dmg). Also i can't deal dmg sometims. Dmg registration is poor, also enemy can kill me with mele weapon on 5m range on my screen.

 

The movement of the characters is not smooth even on my 300mb/s connection host.

 

At least devs can remake pvp matchmaking system vs laggers from asia/russia on "Eu servers".

 

Its topic about PvP netcode, i don't have problems with PvE.

Edited by SergeOvD
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I play with this guys many other games (like cs go and bf4) and i know what rig they have and what connection. Im leave match in the end and they see host migration - its mean im host, im get host with group lead few times.

 

Im see that netcode is bad cuz even on my host players can't shoot me (and one of them my bro sit in my room and don't deal dmg). Also i can't deal dmg sometims. Dmg registration is poor, also enemy can kill me with mele weapon on 5m range on my screen.

 

The movement of the characters is not smooth even on my 300mb/s connection host.

 

At least devs can remake pvp matchmaking system vs laggers from asia/russia on "Eu servers".

 

Its topic about PvP netcode, i don't have problems with PvE.

Ok, with the information you just provided it does sound more like it could be a netcode issue; it's also much more helpful information to any developers from DE who read this thread versus the information you provided in your initial post (by helpful information I'm referring to mentioning PC performance is good, good network bandwidth, and very close geographic location/low latency).

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