Player Perspective & Mindset On Different Focus Cap Changes

[Zarozian]

Okay so this is to discuss the player's view and how they would act based on the Focus cap and how it would vary from player to player.

 

 

Focus Capped At 75K For A Day & Resets Each Day

 

This is the type of cap that we have right now. It resets daily at 7PM regardless of whether or not we manage to get all of it for the day before we reset. So what I have below this are the player mindsets and perspectives when faced with this scenario.

 

Player Mindset & Perspective:

 

1. Darn I gotta hit 75k each day. I can't afford to miss out! Time to go Draco and solo the crap out of those annoying spy missions! Move it pleb! I got kills to steal! All your kills and focus are belongz to me!

 

2. I'm like barely getting any Focus Points so I think the cap is fine, but it will take forever to rank up these skills.

 

3. I'll be ranking up these skills slower if I don't hit the cap each day. Plus I can't grind and get as much as I want on my day off....

 

4. The Cap doesn't affect me at all since I have no way to reach 75k in a single day.

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No Focus Cap

 

Without a focus cap, DE fears that players might burn through content too quickly, or they fear that this might cause harm to player health and would mean increase grind. But is that really how we see it?

 

 

Player Mindset & Perspective:

 

1. I CAN GRIND AS MUCH AS I WANT TO MAH HEARTS CONTENT MWUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!! MAXING ALL DEM SKILLZ!

 

2.  Since there's no cap I can catch up on some Focus points on my days off.

 

3. Alright I'm tired of trying to max out all these abilities in one go in Draco, maybe I can do other things and play other missions, I'll still get focus points regardless, since any mission I do gets me some focus, and since there's no cap, there's no rush. I won't be missing out on anything.

 

4. Crap! My friend no-lifed this crap and now he's ahead of me in his focus tree! MUST! CATCH UP!

 

5. Meh. Who cares about focus, it would be better if they put a 25k cap, so that other people won't get ahead of me. Heh.

 

6. Isn't it bad if there's no focus cap? I mean while I'm still barely getting any focus because that nut-job with that Ash Prime keeps stealing all my kills, wouldn't the hardcore players just burn through and finish the Focus System too quickly and be bored with the game? Not that I really care or anything. I'm fine either way. Just wish there was an easier way to get focus.

 

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75k Daily Focus That Doesn't Reset But Gets The Next Daily Replenish Added On To It

 

So for this one, the left over focus that you had today that you weren't able to completely burn through, would get added to the Focus replenish you would get when it's time for the reset at 7PM. It will add on even if you are inactive.

 

So say you missed out on playing Warframe today so you would have 75K focus, then the daily resets, and you would get today's daily added onto that 75k, meaning you will now have 150k focus left to burn! And it would stack up infinitely with each passing day. This is good for casual players who don't play warframe as often mostly.

 

Player Mindset & Perspective

 

1. I will do other things.....Let each day pass......And once my focus piles up....! *Buys affinity boost* I SHALL GRIND IT ALL OUT AND MAX OUT ALL MAH ABILITIES IN ONE DAY!!! MWUAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAAA!!!! Then the next day I shall sleep.

 

2. Hmm so the daily stacks up each day. So I guess I don't need to worry about grinding focus for a while.

 

3. Whew good thing the focus doesn't reset and completely erase the focus that I still had left. Now I can keep up with everyone else without being forced to login everyday and grind out the focus to the cap.

 

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So TL;DR regardless of what decision DE makes with the focus cap, the current one really sucks, and the method of getting the focus would have to change too and be made easier or harder depending on the ability.

 

Anyways. This fully sums up how people would feel and see the caps. I personally think that not having one would make everyone happier and allow for more freedom and player choice.

[Kthal]

The additive daily limit seems like a good solution, although it would probably be best to put a high upper bar on it, somewhere in the realm of 1.5m, 20 days worth.

 

The other suggestion I've seen around is a soft limit, with Focus yielding diminishing returns the more you have ground in a day. While that has its advantages, I'd prefer the additive daily limit.

[----G----]

With the cap. I am currently between 2 and 4 for one reason : I placed my lens on Nova P. So unless I manage to kill some enemies with my 2, which is never the case on Draco because Ash is all over the place, I can't get ANY focus.

I think this is ridiculous. Any weapon and frame should be able to gain focus at the same rate (frames would gain 2x or 3x more than weapons so it would be more balanced). Having to KS in order to gain focus is just disgusting. When I first heard of these mechanics, it almost made me feel like I hindered people's progress whenever I killed a crowd of enemies, but the reciprocal was also true.

So I decided that focus would not be mandatory to me and I don't pay attention to it anymore, because the way to get it is so opposed to the way I see this game, and I use it less and less in fights because I've chosen a path that is completely useless in missions anyway, apart from the 1 energy per second gain.

[Lynxh]

So...where is the game design perspective? I mean, what players want and don't want is all fine and dandy. But that doesn't necessarily involve sensible design choices. 

 

Honestly, I'm far more concerned with how we gain focus then the cap. But if anything, I'm firmly against full freedom of farming it, simply from a longevity/purpose perspective.

Edited December 26, 2015 by Lynxh

[Homer87]

I just don't like how it hard locks you into playing only the specific frame or weapons that you have lenses installed on, then makes the issue worse with an overly bloated sortie reward table. It is pretty much better to buy greater lenses for all your gear than to earn them through sorties. I'm glad there will be change coming to the system. Something that I'd like to see is a general lens that's installed on your Tenno - what I mean by that is, say you picked Naramon as your focus. No matter what you have equipped, you gain focus points to Naramon. If you wanted focus points to say, Madurai, you'd uninstall the Naramon lens first, install the Madurai lens, then no matter what you have equipped, focus points will go to Madurai. I don't like using the same gear all the time, and having to install lenses on each gear in a way penalizes you by making your focus gain significantly slower. I would like to see something like the rough suggestion that I laid out, so that players who like to use a variety of gear don't lose out on focus points.

[(PSN)Xurokhan]

2 players suggested this on my post.

Maintain the Cap.

Start it at 50,000 and then add an additional 2500 per master rank.

Also allow any unused focus from the cap carry over up to a limit of 300,000 for those that can't grind often.

Everybody wins this way.

[(PSN)J_DANGER_]

Lol at Draco being the best way to get focus. It's not.

[cx-dave]

6. Isn't it bad if there's no focus cap? I mean while I'm still barely getting any focus because that nut-job with that Ash Prime keeps stealing all my kills, wouldn't the hardcore players just burn through and finish the Focus System too quickly and be bored with the game? Not that I really care or anything. I'm fine either way. Just wish there was an easier way to get focus.

 

There is an easier way to get Focus. 30 min and you cap Syndicates, Simaris, and Focus all together. Put your mind to it. Learn the game mechanics. It's nice to have some self efficacy.

 

...and double or triple that cap.

Edited December 26, 2015 by cx-dave

[xFrostKnightx]

1. So you complain 75k forces people to cap it as it makes them feel like their wasting potential points, rather than it being a daily goal evenly spread out.
But say uncap it,  because we all know there won't be people who will hardcore grind and max it within 1hr for every school.

Player Mindset & Perspective: [No cap]

2. You contradict yourself, first saying "feel forced to cap 75k" then saying "Feel forced to catch up"
3. This is not true, you made up a false scenario once again contradicting your claim that people feel pressured to cap 75k.
4. This is the only truthful thing you've said
You're pretty much jumping to conclusions all over the place and shoving dirt into peoples mouths, taking one side then taking the other side to prove your original point using made up assumptions.

This whole post is a pointless wall of text to say in short "I want no cap so i can max it out in 1 day because I hate having to take my time with it as DE intended.  It's ok though because no cap = Less negatives compared to other alternatives". 


DE want's us to take our time. DE want it so every day we have something to do (especially the High MR players 19-22), and by making a cap, it makes you return the next day and say "Oh I could fill my focus today do whatever and I'll still have something to do tomorrow"
 

[(XBOX)BluAina]

Would like another mastery bonus similar to syndicates and such for cap increase, I know it's still beta and this is "end" game content meant be long lasting long term but eh mastery y'all ha

[ashrah]

focus cap is pretty ok now  i dont rush really to get focus i play game wen i get xp i get.....

[(PSN)obsidiancurse]

Additive would be a nice compromise I feel, so people who have limited time can catch up if they feel the need to. If it resets each week I can't see the harm, people with different home lives/playstyles can each acquire the same amount of focus in a 7 day period.

As it stands, someone who can play 1 hour each day can progress faster than someone who can play 8 hours (or more) over weekends only, even though the first player is actually putting in less hours.

[Zarozian]

So...where is the game design perspective? I mean, what players want and don't want is all fine and dandy. But that doesn't necessarily involve sensible design choices. 

 

Honestly, I'm far more concerned with how we gain focus then the cap. But if anything, I'm firmly against full freedom of farming it, simply from a longevity/purpose perspective.

No I made this to help DE understand how players would see and react to whatever changes they would possibly make with the focus cap.

 

There's no need for game designer perspective, plus I am unable to provide a game designer perspective because I am no game designer. ;> However~ Maybe players would be more content with the choices that they make, should they explain why, to help us understand their perspective, although they will need to have a way with words in order to convince all of us.

[Zarozian]

The additive daily limit seems like a good solution, although it would probably be best to put a high upper bar on it, somewhere in the realm of 1.5m, 20 days worth.

 

The other suggestion I've seen around is a soft limit, with Focus yielding diminishing returns the more you have ground in a day. While that has its advantages, I'd prefer the additive daily limit.

Yes but it is not enough.

 

I am thinking of adding a mastery bonus % gain to it. The higher your mastery the more your focus gain increases, making it faster to get all the focus in larger chunks.

 

With the cap. I am currently between 2 and 4 for one reason : I placed my lens on Nova P. So unless I manage to kill some enemies with my 2, which is never the case on Draco because Ash is all over the place, I can't get ANY focus.

I think this is ridiculous. Any weapon and frame should be able to gain focus at the same rate (frames would gain 2x or 3x more than weapons so it would be more balanced). Having to KS in order to gain focus is just disgusting. When I first heard of these mechanics, it almost made me feel like I hindered people's progress whenever I killed a crowd of enemies, but the reciprocal was also true.

So I decided that focus would not be mandatory to me and I don't pay attention to it anymore, because the way to get it is so opposed to the way I see this game, and I use it less and less in fights because I've chosen a path that is completely useless in missions anyway, apart from the 1 energy per second gain.

 

I had a 4th?.....

I just don't like how it hard locks you into playing only the specific frame or weapons that you have lenses installed on, then makes the issue worse with an overly bloated sortie reward table. It is pretty much better to buy greater lenses for all your gear than to earn them through sorties. I'm glad there will be change coming to the system. Something that I'd like to see is a general lens that's installed on your Tenno - what I mean by that is, say you picked Naramon as your focus. No matter what you have equipped, you gain focus points to Naramon. If you wanted focus points to say, Madurai, you'd uninstall the Naramon lens first, install the Madurai lens, then no matter what you have equipped, focus points will go to Madurai. I don't like using the same gear all the time, and having to install lenses on each gear in a way penalizes you by making your focus gain significantly slower. I would like to see something like the rough suggestion that I laid out, so that players who like to use a variety of gear don't lose out on focus points.

And I agree. I'm pretty sure DE realizes this, and if they don't, then they need to hire better people.

 

2 players suggested this on my post.

Maintain the Cap.

Start it at 50,000 and then add an additional 2500 per master rank.

Also allow any unused focus from the cap carry over up to a limit of 300,000 for those that can't grind often.

Everybody wins this way.

Ah the mastery bonus is a bad idea as it would feel crippling to the new players and veteran ones. More so than the current cap we have now.

 

A mastery bonus feature would only serve to cripple lower mastery ranks and benefit the higher ones.

 

From the perspective of a veteran player, this is good and it will give them the edge they deserve, but from a lower MR player who just got it recently would see it as unfair and crippling as though the game wants to force them to use weapons and warframes they don't like, just to get a higher cap.

 

So my solution for this would be to increase focus % gain based on mastery rank instead of increasing the cap.

 

1. So you complain 75k forces people to cap it as it makes them feel like their wasting potential points, rather than it being a daily goal evenly spread out.

But say uncap it,  because we all know there won't be people who will hardcore grind and max it within 1hr for every school.

Player Mindset & Perspective: [No cap]

2. You contradict yourself, first saying "feel forced to cap 75k" then saying "Feel forced to catch up"

3. This is not true, you made up a false scenario once again contradicting your claim that people feel pressured to cap 75k.

4. This is the only truthful thing you've said

You're pretty much jumping to conclusions all over the place and shoving dirt into peoples mouths, taking one side then taking the other side to prove your original point using made up assumptions.

This whole post is a pointless wall of text to say in short "I want no cap so i can max it out in 1 day because I hate having to take my time with it as DE intended.  It's ok though because no cap = Less negatives compared to other alternatives". 

DE want's us to take our time. DE want it so every day we have something to do (especially the High MR players 19-22), and by making a cap, it makes you return the next day and say "Oh I could fill my focus today do whatever and I'll still have something to do tomorrow"

 

This is not a complaint. It's more of a way to show player perspective on the caps.

 

People feel obligated to reach a daily quota when there is one, and how is this a false scenario? There are really people who are grinding focus to 75k max like it's a daily chore that they strain themselves to do.

 

I feel that you lack their perspective to fully understand what this is all about. =/ This is not what I'm saying. This is what other people are saying and thinking. The reason why you think #4 is true is because that's YOU you're one of those people who fall into my category of perspectives.

 

Just because the perspectives of others don't align with your own, doesn't give you the right to disregard it as false. This is really what other people feel, and the fact that I have your perspective and take on this situation means I full understand your perspective and outlook on things as well as the perspectives of others too.

 

Would like another mastery bonus similar to syndicates and such for cap increase, I know it's still beta and this is "end" game content meant be long lasting long term but eh mastery y'all ha

 

Again the mastery bonus cap is a bad idea as it would feel crippling to the new players and veteran ones. More so than the current cap we have now.

 

A mastery bonus feature would only serve to cripple lower mastery ranks and benefit the higher ones.

 

From the perspective of a veteran player, this is good and it will give them the edge they deserve, but from a lower MR player who just got it recently would see it as unfair and crippling as though the game wants to force them to use weapons and warframes they don't like, just to get a higher cap.

 

So my solution for this would be to increase focus % gain based on mastery rank instead of increasing the cap.

 

Cause increasing the cap would mean more grinding.

[Zarozian]

Also.....to me the fact that the focus system can be unlocked at MR4 and Sorties being accessible at MR4 doesn't spell out endgame to me.

 

To me it just says midgame.

[(XBOX)BluAina]

Can't the same be said about our syndicates then? In regards to "crippling" to newer players

The "endgame" I'm referring to is not in difficulty but in the overall longevity of this here system

Edited December 27, 2015 by (XB1)VTG xSTEVIEx

[Zarozian]

Can't the same be said about our syndicates then? In regards to "crippling" to newer players

The "endgame" I'm referring to is not in difficulty but in the overall longevity of this here system

And you are right.

 

It already requires stuff that are difficult for new players to obtain in order to move on to the next rank.

 

If we are going to talk about the longevity of the system here, then lets not throw the term "endgame" in.

 

As for my solution and my take on improving it's longevity. It would be to make the abilities absolutely worth getting, then making it very hard to get.

 

The system as it is now. the abilities are hard to get and not worth getting, making it pointless to use and to get over all, meaning the players would lack motivation to play because it's not a goal anymore, there's no more reason for them to keep going with a system they will never need to use- well unless they are Naramon or Zenurik of course, but that's because it has a few abilities that are useful!

 

NOW! What if! What if all the abilities are useful and worth getting?! Then we have something we can work with here and something that will improve the longevity of the system.

[Avlaen]

i like the "new cap added onto the old cap" one, maybe have a upper limit of say 750k? (so 10 days) its annoying when the limit resets when i have 10k left for the daily cap, then that 10k is gone... forever :(

[Zarozian]

i like the "new cap added onto the old cap" one, maybe have a upper limit of say 750k? (so 10 days) its annoying when the limit resets when i have 10k left for the daily cap, then that 10k is gone... forever :(

We'll call it the "Additive Cap". I'd prefer it, if it adds on infinitely.

[(PSN)Lord_Gremlin]

I prefer just straight up no cap whatsoever. Balance all costs accordingly. I personally don't enjoy leveling stuff, I enjoy playing with already maxed stuff.

Or maybe scale it with mastery, like syndicates. How much time should it take to max out one focus tree? Let's say same time it takes to max out 3 syndicates and buy all their offerings. And balance according to this.

[Zarozian]

I prefer just straight up no cap whatsoever. Balance all costs accordingly. I personally don't enjoy leveling stuff, I enjoy playing with already maxed stuff.

Or maybe scale it with mastery, like syndicates. How much time should it take to max out one focus tree? Let's say same time it takes to max out 3 syndicates and buy all their offerings. And balance according to this.

Well how much time does DE want it to take to max out a school in the focus system?

 

It's DE's perspective that I am unable to see. 

 

If they told us how they want their system to be, then maybe I( or we) could help them think of a way to realize their ideals with this system.

And to best understand that, they need to best understand the perspective and mindsets of all their players.

[(PSN)Xurokhan]

Yes but it is not enough.

I am thinking of adding a mastery bonus % gain to it. The higher your mastery the more your focus gain increases, making it faster to get all the focus in larger chunks.

I had a 4th?.....

And I agree. I'm pretty sure DE realizes this, and if they don't, then they need to hire better people.

Ah the mastery bonus is a bad idea as it would feel crippling to the new players and veteran ones. More so than the current cap we have now.

A mastery bonus feature would only serve to cripple lower mastery ranks and benefit the higher ones.

From the perspective of a veteran player, this is good and it will give them the edge they deserve, but from a lower MR player who just got it recently would see it as unfair and crippling as though the game wants to force them to use weapons and warframes they don't like, just to get a higher cap.

So my solution for this would be to increase focus % gain based on mastery rank instead of increasing the cap.

This is not a complaint. It's more of a way to show player perspective on the caps.

People feel obligated to reach a daily quota when there is one, and how is this a false scenario? There are really people who are grinding focus to 75k max like it's a daily chore that they strain themselves to do.

I feel that you lack their perspective to fully understand what this is all about. =/ This is not what I'm saying. This is what other people are saying and thinking. The reason why you think #4 is true is because that's YOU you're one of those people who fall into my category of perspectives.

Just because the perspectives of others don't align with your own, doesn't give you the right to disregard it as false. This is really what other people feel, and the fact that I have your perspective and take on this situation means I full understand your perspective and outlook on things as well as the perspectives of others too.

Again the mastery bonus cap is a bad idea as it would feel crippling to the new players and veteran ones. More so than the current cap we have now.

A mastery bonus feature would only serve to cripple lower mastery ranks and benefit the higher ones.

From the perspective of a veteran player, this is good and it will give them the edge they deserve, but from a lower MR player who just got it recently would see it as unfair and crippling as though the game wants to force them to use weapons and warframes they don't like, just to get a higher cap.

So my solution for this would be to increase focus % gain based on mastery rank instead of increasing the cap.

Cause increasing the cap would mean more grinding.

I would hardly consider a MR bonus crippling to new players. Those of us with a high mastery rank have experienced most of the content, and I think that experience should be beneficial to us in regards to focus. Why shouldn't those players have an opportunity to really delve into the focus system. Draco abusers aside; we've earned it. Not that I'm suggesting that new or low Mr players are less deserving, but it is absolutely okay if they have a slower start to an endgame system than the players who have essentially reached a stopping point.

It would be beneficial to high MR players and serve as a goal and incentive for low MR players to explore additional content outside of their safe zone. Too many players are confused about fairness. In fact; I'd go as far as to say that it's unjustified to lock high MR players into the same restrictions as low MR. I mean... look at sorties? These people have literally just learned about syndictates and now they can do missions that are supposed to be considered "endgame"

Edited December 27, 2015 by (PS4)Xurokhan

[(XBOX)Grihaly]

Then there's the people like me: who don't even give a crap, because we don't use focus, nor power 5.

[iuki.]

I did a 70 minute solo ods...2x lenses, mobs weere near 200 at the end; at least 1/2 that run they were over 100. 

 

I got 6k affinity for that. Really?

 

So instead I run loki on Vedi vs lvl 30 mobs with 2x lenses using stealth method and get same amount in 10-15 minutes.

 

Even though the stealth run is better, it still sucks b/c I get to spend 2 or so hours grinding the same exterminate every single day before i can even do sorties or work on things I would rather be doing instead. And the worst thing is since lense are perma stuck on my items, I can't even work on another path either. Quite frankly, this is lame.

 

This system needs to be thrown out and remade period.

Edited December 27, 2015 by fizbit

[(PSN)Xurokhan]

I did a 70 minute solo ods...2x lenses, mobs weere near 200 at the end; at least 1/2 that run they were over 100.

I got 6k affinity for that. Really?

So instead I run loki on Vedi vs lvl 30 mobs with 2x lenses using stealth method and get same amount in 10-15 minutes.

Even though the stealth run is better, it still sucks b/c I get to spend 2 or so hours grinding the same exterminate every single day before i can even do sorties or work on things I would rather be doing instead. And the worst thing is since lense are perma stuck on my items, I can't even work on another path either. Quite frankly, this is lame.

This system needs to be thrown out and remade period.

lenses need to be equipped on the operator.

I originally thought that the focus system would grant additional perks to the weapons or frames thenselves, in which case installing lenses on those specific items would've been fine.

Not anymore.

DE needs to revisit and reconsider.