Mag Overhaul 2.0 By D20 : Better Defined Role, More Tactical + Ragdoll Mechanics Rework !

[LascarCapable]

First of all, if you didn't saw my first version of my Mag overhaul and you think it could be interesting to read, here's a link : https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/539198-mag-overhaul-by-d20-rebalance-faction-wise-with-added-fun-factor-and-more-defined-role/

 

More than four month passed since the first feedback, yet no changes to Mag yet. However her rework is definitly planned by DE, as confirmed in Devstream #67. At this point, it's about time to suggest our own rework as much as we can in order to give to the dev team an idea of what the community would like to see. I am not the whole community, but as always I hope my opinions and ideas will please most of you. :)

 

 

Let's introduce Mag :

 

she was shown in her Profile as a highly tactical Warframe. All of her powers are extremely different from each other (like Volt), making it look like some kind of toolbox. Yet that Warframe fails to convince due to three reasons :

- She's way too reliant of the faction you'll face : she's only used in high level Corpus missions as a cheap nuker and barely nothing else.

- Besides her Corpus nuke side, she does not have a defined purpose. Her CC does not mach the power of other CC frames, Shield regeneration still won't make her a potent tank and Bullet Attractor is gimmicky at best. A better niche can be found to Mag, besides the Corpus nuking one.

- She's decribed as a battlefield manipulator, yet only one of her powers move enemies around, and in a single way. That's a shame, because the ability to manipulate enemy position is kind of fun and very interesting. This could give Mag the real niche she needs.

 

I plan to change Mag to make her live up to the battlefield manipulator she should have been from the start, while making her a more potent frame against more factions. I think no one like when a Warframe is way too oriented toward a single faction. Sure some Warframes, like Vauban, are considered much more potent against a faction in particular (in Vauban's case, it's the infested), yet those frames still manage to keep their effectiveness nicely (I oftenly use Vauban against the Corrupted, the Corpus and the Grineers and still perform very potently). Mag should not be an exception.

 

Those changes would make Mag most potent in defense based missions, without making her useless anywhere else of course. I'm trying to bring a lot of ragdoll effects, not only because it's the most fitting for her (check at Mag's videos : most of the things you see her doing is grabbing an enemy and throw it away), but also to fit her battlefield manipulation theme... And because ragdoll is fun.

 

 

Power changes :

 

Pull :

Pull is fine by itself, yet we can clearly add something nice to it. With the introduction of Ivara, DE showed us a rather interesting "press or hold" mechanic on warframe powers that could be applied to Mag as well. The idea I'll suggest here is not new and have been suggested by a lot of people : if Mag is able to pull, how about making her able to push ? That idea was a good one from the start, but wasn't really realistic to implement, until now. Since Ivara is a thing, Pull/Push could be one too.

 

- Pull becomes Pull/Push.

- A simple pressure on 1 will trigger Pull and throw enemies toward Mag (no changes).

- Holding 1 will trigger Push and throw enemies in front of Mag. Push has the same range and damage than pull, and a slightly faster casting speed to make up for the time used to hold the 1 button.

 

It's simple, it's brilliant. Yet don't expect me to stop here when it's about ragdolling and enemy manipulation. :p

 

Shield Polarize :

My ideas about Shield Polarize where kind of highly debated when I made the first version of my Mag rework. A lot of people consider it as Mag's signature skill. In my case ? Well, I don't, and I don't find the argument of "not changing Shield Polarize because it's Mag's signature" good either as it does not explain anything. The question is not about Mag's Shield Polarize being her signature skill, the question is more about "should Mag be able to nuke".

 

As Mag is supposed to be Tactical, is a power able to get rid of 80% of a map from all Corpus units a good addition to her skillset ? In my opinion Mag was never meant to be a nuke frame like Nova or Equinox (day) are, but would players still play Mag without a nuking power ? Maybe not. In my first rework I turned Shield Polarize into a much more defensive ability, and tried to put the nuking part of it into Bullet Attractor. My original idea won't change a lot here.

 

- Shield Polarize's explosion won't deal damage anymore, but will inflict a knockdown instead.

- The knockdown effect will also be triggered around Mag and her allies. Affected by power range.

- Shield Polarize still drains enemy shields and restore ally shields.

- Shield Polarize will grant +X% damage resistance to shields for Y seconds, affected by power strength and power duration.

- While Shield Polarize's damage reduction is active, Mag and affected allies will cancel every procs inflicted to them (no more death due to an unlucky slash proc).

 

 

Bullet Attractor :

Most of Mag players overlook Bullet Attractor for a good reason : it's gimmicky at best, it's hard to use, and the final effect (explosion on death) is not worth it at all. I wanted to change BA in order to give it both an utility and a nuke effect. The utility effect would fit the "battlefield manipulator" theme while the Nuke effect would compensate for the loss of Shield Polarize's nuke, effective in a more limited area of effect and slightly less powerful, yet useful against every factions.

 

- On cast, Shield Polarize will pull every enemies on X meters around the target towards it. Affected by power range.

- When the targeted enemy dies, the final explosion will deal X% of the enemy's health damage around him. Affected by power strength.

- Of course, Bullet Attractor keeps its original effects.

 

 

Crush :

Mag's final ability lacks something. The knockdown effect is nice but when you compare it to most of 4th power, it wouldn't be a bad thing to add something to it. The additionnal effect that we could give to it is just obvious to me : an extremely strong ragdoll effect. One would then use Crush to clear the cryopod in defense mission.

 

- Crush will now throw away all enemies picked up by Crush.

 

Is it enough ? Maybe not, but Crush's augment covers a lot of suggestions made by other users that would have been fitting for a simple rework. Is the whole Mag skill set okay then ? Maybe not quite. What could we add then ? How about a whole mechanic concerning ragdolls ?

 

BONUS : here's also Burnthesteak87's idea about crush, that I found pretty awesome :

 

Crush would work like this:

Cast Crush#4, Mag enters a stanced state ala Mesa's Pacemaker, projecting a large force field around herself. She can move meanwhile. Or not. Whatever.
Enemies caught in the range during the cast or enemies which enters it (for one reason or the other) gets immobilized and suspended ala Bastille. Plus, those enemies are kept inside the force field ala Nova's Antimatter Drop and will follow Mag.

Now, what Crush stance does, exactly like Peacemaker: Right Click load and disposes an enemy (caugh in the force field) in the guise of a projectile. Left Click shoots that enemy ala Soul Punch toward your crosshair.

Premature or intentional ending of Crush (interrupting the channeling by pressing#4 again) executes the trapped enemies exactly as the actual Crush does.

Keep in consideration that you could also combo other skills:

#1 Pull a group of enemies in the force field, then dispose of them as you wish;

#3 Bullet attractor on an heavy target, then pull inside the force field to use it as a living shield.

This way you could have different combos with 3 skills.

 

 

Ragdoll rework :

Do you think it's right that when you throw an enemy and that enemy hits a wall it does not suffer additional damage ? Well, I don't think it's right too. Since a Mag rework is planned and I am suggesting a lot of ragdoll effects for her, I just want to suggest a simple thing : make impact with the environment deal damage to enemies !

 

- That kind of damage would be finisher damage (no type, not effected by armor).

- The amount of damage dealt depends of how fast the enemy hit a surface.

- One can also deal damage by throwing an enemy on another enemy (dealing damage to both of them). Depending of how fast the "living projectile" is thrown, that enemy will be ragdolled as well or just suffer a knockdown.

 

That's a mechanic that could be hard to implement as it would require some heavy math calculation, but on the other hand it would be an awesome thing to see, and be a nice buff to some weapons and frames that could use one. Killing enemies by sending them through a wall could be a thing, and a fun one to do. After all, Frost can damage enemies with snowglobe by throwing them on walls, why not Mag ?

 

 

Mag's passive :

I used to suggest for Mag a passive Maglev effect, but Nezha finally got that passive. Too bad. But passives are a thing given to every incoming and reworked Warframes so far since U12. Mag won't be an exception then. Sadly, that innate Maglev effect was the most fitting to her.

 

Since the Maglev's effect is taken, I would just go for the following effects :

- Mag has infinite wall latch, and does not suffer screen shaking effects while wall latching (magnet grip).

- Mag has +X% resistance to Shield and energy draining effects.

 

Thats it. It's a bit gimmicky, but it should be kinda fun.

 

 

Here's the end of my second Mag feedback and rework idea ! I hope this was pleasent to read for everyone. Feel free to debate about those changes in a civil way.

Edited January 25, 2016 by D20

[Klizard]

I do enjoy the fact that you're trying to balance Mag to her description as best as possible. And thank you for that shield polarize statement. I don't think the frame's "signature skill" should ever be anything besides their Ultimate.

 

Mag's Ult on the other hand I have an idea that I think about with some frames. 

Here is some food for thought.

• Give her final the same treatment as you did Pull, tap to send them flying away, hold to pull them in.
• Have the hold idea be indefinite. As in as long as you hold the button you continue to pull in and crush enemies at the cost of additional energy drain per second it OR per enemy crushed on top of the initial cost for doing. This leaves you stationary and vulnerable but... you're crushing everything anyway. Giving that slow % to be per second in the Crush pile if held but keeping the animation for if you tap it. Then on release you can send the crushed group of enemies in the direction of your choosing. (Like off a cliff. Because you can.)

This can give Mag some DPS per enemy in the pile as well, if ragdoll rework is factored in then those in the center taking more than those on the outside. Now, imagine casting BA on an enemy beforehand... hello synergy with any ally with a gun.

 

Oh... and I use Bullet Attractor. Lots. :D

 

I remember when ragdolls didn't work well at all so it is not against the books to think that they'll work on that more at some point to incorporate surface impact damage. I still want flying enemies to fall when frozen by Frost and Atlas to fall and take damage that way. The damage by movement can add a ton of good change to the way certain frames work the battlefield. I have another concept frame that would benefit from a ragdoll change. So by all means, pitch that thought!

 

This is great though, keep brainstorming!

Edited January 24, 2016 by Klizard

[blazekan5]

this is great!

+1

[Blakrana]

Whilst I've not played Mag much in a while to be able to input on ability specifics, could a possible passive relate around her interaction with shields?

 

I know Shield Gating comes up a lot as a general idea, and sure, she's got Shield Polarize but could it be reasonable that if her shields get entirely fried, she gets a brief 'electromagnetic' secondary shield to give her a chance to re-establish her normal ones? Not sure how good it might be without being broke though; perhaps a ward of x value for y seconds.

 

Possibly the calculation could be a percentage of the shields lost so...the difference between her Shield rating before she lost them, as a percentage or something. Sorry I'm not managing well on the specifics. Though if we ever were to get Shield Gates, I'd certainly argue Mag's should be inherently better having a skill dedicated to the reinforcement/depletion there of.

 

Oh, and Shield Transference should affect allies as well...Volt and Trinity can give allies Overshield with their Augments so it seems a bit unreasonable that Mag, the Shield specialist, can't do this with hers.

[Hypernaut1]

i use BA a lot. I think its an underrated skill- it just cost too much.

 

i like your idea for SP. i know that DE wont keep Mag as a Corpus nuker for too long, so a knockdown is a good alternative, maybe even a stun. There still the problem of what it does against Grineer though.

[Doom_Bunny]

Pull/push:

I've also pondered on this idea but my conclusion every time is that you could easily troll other players with it. It would be really good with the ragdoll changes especially environment damage causing finisher damage. However I can't shake the idea of how easily people would be trolled.....unless line of sight still applies.

 

Shield polarize:

Although I like this idea I can imagine the feedback after being able to flip the table on three factions (tenno, void, corpus) to just knocking them down. If this was reworked I'd suggest it was reworked to affect other enemies, blow up their ammo or set off their grenades for instance. The infested can take over corpus units and various metals, I don't see why we can't destroy them.

 

Bullet attractor:

This seems fun, will the blast rag doll enemies?

 

Crush:

The only thing I want to see from this ability is enemies actually getting crushed. I just stand there as the enemy; floats, sparkles, drops, and begins attacking again. I just want to see a ball of metal and bodies above Mag, dealing constant damage. Even a magnetized zone would be great as the enemies are slowed and damaged by the weight of their own metal. Throw enemies against a wall, causing environment damage followed by constant damage. At the moment seeing crush live up to it's name is what I hope to see.

[LascarCapable]

 

I do enjoy the fact that you're trying to balance Mag to her description as best as possible. And thank you for that shield polarize statement. I don't think the frame's "signature skill" should ever be anything besides their Ultimate.

 

Mag's Ult on the other hand I have an idea that I think about with some frames. 

Here is some food for thought.

• Give her final the same treatment as you did Pull, tap to send them flying away, hold to pull them in.
• Have the hold idea be indefinite. As in as long as you hold the button you continue to pull in and crush enemies at the cost of additional energy drain per second it OR per enemy crushed on top of the initial cost for doing. This leaves you stationary and vulnerable but... you're crushing everything anyway. Giving that slow % to be per second in the Crush pile if held but keeping the animation for if you tap it. Then on release you can send the crushed group of enemies in the direction of your choosing. (Like off a cliff. Because you can.)

This can give Mag some DPS per enemy in the pile as well, if ragdoll rework is factored in then those in the center taking more than those on the outside. Now, imagine casting BA on an enemy beforehand... hello synergy with any ally with a gun.

 

Oh... and I use Bullet Attractor. Lots. :D

 

I remember when ragdolls didn't work well at all so it is not against the books to think that they'll work on that more at some point to incorporate surface impact damage. I still want flying enemies to fall when frozen by Frost and Atlas to fall and take damage that way. The damage by movement can add a ton of good change to the way certain frames work the battlefield. I have another concept frame that would benefit from a ragdoll change. So by all means, pitch that thought!

 

This is great though, keep brainstorming!

 

 

Your first idea for Crush is a nice idea and could be implemented nicely too. I wouldn't implement the second one though, as I feel like Banshee's Sound Quake fits that role. Anyway, glad that you loved the suggestions. :)

 

 

Whilst I've not played Mag much in a while to be able to input on ability specifics, could a possible passive relate around her interaction with shields?

 

I know Shield Gating comes up a lot as a general idea, and sure, she's got Shield Polarize but could it be reasonable that if her shields get entirely fried, she gets a brief 'electromagnetic' secondary shield to give her a chance to re-establish her normal ones? Not sure how good it might be without being broke though; perhaps a ward of x value for y seconds.

 

Possibly the calculation could be a percentage of the shields lost so...the difference between her Shield rating before she lost them, as a percentage or something. Sorry I'm not managing well on the specifics. Though if we ever were to get Shield Gates, I'd certainly argue Mag's should be inherently better having a skill dedicated to the reinforcement/depletion there of.

 

Oh, and Shield Transference should affect allies as well...Volt and Trinity can give allies Overshield with their Augments so it seems a bit unreasonable that Mag, the Shield specialist, can't do this with hers.

 

Well, we could make a "shields reloads X% faster" passive. It's fitting. Though in my opinion Mag is the magnetic warframe, not really the shield one. :p A true shield themed Warframe could be cool...

 

I didn't knew Shield Transference only affect yourself. This is definitely a very nice idea to make it apply on allies as well.

 

 

i use BA a lot. I think its an underrated skill- it just cost too much.

 

i like your idea for SP. i know that DE wont keep Mag as a Corpus nuker for too long, so a knockdown is a good alternative, maybe even a stun. There still the problem of what it does against Grineer though.

 

Well, it would still perform a bit worse, but on the other hand you would still get the buffs from Shield Polarize ! Since grineers proc slash very often, the proc negation from SP will be really good. :)

 

 

Pull/push:

I've also pondered on this idea but my conclusion every time is that you could easily troll other players with it. It would be really good with the ragdoll changes especially environment damage causing finisher damage. However I can't shake the idea of how easily people would be trolled.....unless line of sight still applies.

 

Shield polarize:

Although I like this idea I can imagine the feedback after being able to flip the table on three factions (tenno, void, corpus) to just knocking them down. If this was reworked I'd suggest it was reworked to affect other enemies, blow up their ammo or set off their grenades for instance. The infested can take over corpus units and various metals, I don't see why we can't destroy them.

 

Bullet attractor:

This seems fun, will the blast rag doll enemies?

 

Crush:

The only thing I want to see from this ability is enemies actually getting crushed. I just stand there as the enemy; floats, sparkles, drops, and begins attacking again. I just want to see a ball of metal and bodies above Mag, dealing constant damage. Even a magnetized zone would be great as the enemies are slowed and damaged by the weight of their own metal. Throw enemies against a wall, causing environment damage followed by constant damage. At the moment seeing crush live up to it's name is what I hope to see.

 

I don't see a lot of players complaining about pull, so I don't see players would complain that much about push as well. Oh and of course LoS would still be a thing.

 

Shield Polarize triggering grenades from enemy units and perturbating electronics ? That's actually interesting. I think that idea should be worked a bit but one can come with something nice with it.

 

Glad that you like the Bullet Attractor idea. I didn't though about the final blast ragdolling enemies, but it can be an addition for sure. :)

 

Are you actually suggesting animation changes for crush or new mechanics ? The issue with Crush is that what Crush should have been to do from the start is packed in an augment. I am note sure if DE will actually rework that augment and apply it to crush permanently, but something like that would be cool. I'd gladly suggest a slow effect as well though.

[Klizard]

Help me out and elaborate on this thought:

 

"I wouldn't implement the second one as though as I feel Banshee's Sound Quake fits that role"

 

What role are you talking about on this, as the only similarities I can see between that idea and Sound Quake is the fact that it is a wide-range constant CC, while that may be true the actual performance of the two creates two very different scenarios. At the same time, having two skills that can potentially fill the same "role" if that to be the case is not always a bad thing, they just need to do it in different ways. In my opinion, of course.

[Burnthesteak87]

+1 for your Topic. Your reworks are always nice.

Also I had some similar idea to that of Klizard. The main difference is his version makes Mag similar to Mesa.


[Trashing the old post for being too much confusionary]
EDIT:

Crush would work like this:

Cast Crush#4, Mag enters a stanced state ala Mesa's Pacemaker, projecting a large force field around herself. She can move meanwhile. Or not. Whatever.
Enemies caught in the range during the cast or enemies which enters it (for one reason or the other) gets immobilized and suspended ala Bastille. Plus, those enemies are kept inside the force field ala Nova's Antimatter Drop and will follow Mag.

Now, what Crush stance does, exactly like Peacemaker: Right Click load and disposes an enemy (caugh in the force field) in the guise of a projectile. Left Click shoots that enemy ala Soul Punch toward your crosshair.

Premature or intentional ending of Crush (interrupting the channeling by pressing#4 again) executes the trapped enemies exactly as the actual Crush does.

Keep in consideration that you could also combo other skills:

#1 Pull a group of enemies in the force field, then dispose of them as you wish;

#3 Bullet attractor on an heavy target, then pull inside the force field to use it as a living shield.

This way you could have different combos with 3 skills.

Old Post

I thought about making Crush a sort of force field (moving Bastille around Mag) that would turn enemies caught into an "AntimatterDrop disposable living-projectiles" ala Soul Punch.
To explain: enemies entering  the force field or caught during the cast are instantly immobilized and suspended similar to Bastille and follows you similar to how Antimatter Drop works.
Then the suspended enemies could be shot ala Soul Punch toward the crosshair.
A mechanic to make it work like that could be the Mesa's Pacemaker, in a energy drain sustained skill (left mouse button to throw enemies)
To conclude, suppressing the force field executes closer enemies completing the legacy-Crush.

So you can go around collecting and throwing enemies around.
4 to cast it, energy drain, Left Mouse to throw trapped enemies, 4 again to Crush trapped enemies.

This would definetly comboes with Pull.

I though also to something like comboing it with Bullect Attractor, so you can literally grab the unit and use it as a living shield.

Edited January 24, 2016 by Burnthesteak87

[LascarCapable]

Help me out and elaborate on this thought:

 

"I wouldn't implement the second one as though as I feel Banshee's Sound Quake fits that role"

 

What role are you talking about on this, as the only similarities I can see between that idea and Sound Quake is the fact that it is a wide-range constant CC, while that may be true the actual performance of the two creates two very different scenarios. At the same time, having two skills that can potentially fill the same "role" if that to be the case is not always a bad thing, they just need to do it in different ways. In my opinion, of course.

 

Yeah that's what I meant. The two felt too similar each other (large CC but leaves you stuck in place). I was more fond of the first idea you suggested (allowing Crush to drag enemies toward you at the end).

 

 

+1 for your Topic. Your reworks are always nice.

Also I had some similar idea to that of Klizard. The main difference is his version makes Mag similar to Mesa.

I thought about making Crush a sort of force field (moving Bastille around Mag) that would turn enemies caught into an "AntimatterDrop disposable living-projectiles" ala Soul Punch.

To explain: enemies entering  the force field or caught during the cast are instantly immobilized and suspended similar to Bastille and follows you similar to how Antimatter Drop works.

Then the suspended enemies could be shot ala Soul Punch toward the crosshair.

A mechanic to make it work like that could be the Mesa's Pacemaker.

To note it comboes with Pull.

I though also to something like comboing it with Bullect Attractor, so you can literally grab the unit and use it as a living shield.

Thus you could have different combos with 3 skills.

 

Oh wow, that feels hard to make. The idea is interesting though.

[rawr1254]

For pull, why not all 4. Pull, Push, Lift, Slam. Pull + push will literally push/pull them with minimal ragdoll compared to now. Lift with lift hem straight up in the air with the current amount of ragdoll. Slam with slam them straight down on the ground. And if you slam a lifted enemy damage is multiplied by height.

 

I really dont think SP should turn into a Shatter Shield. It'll wind up capping at 95% like most skills and we all know how easily Mesa can go down with only 95% damage reduction, same for Mirage. This skill needs to keep the damage but like you said let your own shields explode too. This'd at least give your a 15m around yourself to deal damage to the grineer/infested faction.

 

That BA change sounds kinda meh. I mean your turning BA into Everything Attractor. Maybe instead of pulling enemies into that amazingly large 15m BA AoE...SP would share BA with other enemies in the AoE. So lets say your up against the grineer, SP isnt good against them(yet) but if you cast a BA then a SP you instantly made it effective against the grineer almost changing BA into a way more awesome neutral Molecular Prime.

 

As for Crush pushing enemies away is something I wouldn't want. Any skill where you have to chase down enemies imo is not worth using. ie Terrify. I feel Crush should deal magnetic damage like normal but now have more bone fragments which actually deal slash/punc/impact damage to enemies in LoS. This'd at least might maybe help it kill something.

Edited January 24, 2016 by rawr1254

[LascarCapable]

For pull, why not all 4. Pull, Push, Lift, Slam. Pull + push will literally push/pull them with minimal ragdoll compared to now. Lift with lift hem straight up in the air with the current amount of ragdoll. Slam with slam them straight down on the ground. And if you slam a lifted enemy damage is multiplied by height.

 

I really dont think SP should turn into a Shatter Shield. It'll wind up capping at 95% like most skills and we all know how easily Mesa can go down with only 95% damage reduction, same for Mirage. This skill needs to keep the damage but like you said let your own shields explode too. This'd at least give your a 15m around yourself to deal damage to the grineer/infested faction.

 

That BA change sounds kinda meh. I mean your turning BA into Everything Attractor. Maybe instead of pulling enemies into that amazingly large 15m BA AoE...SP would share BA with other enemies in the AoE. So lets say your up against the grineer, SP isnt good against them(yet) but if you cast a BA then a SP you instantly made it effective against the grineer almost changing BA into a way more awesome neutral Molecular Prime.

 

As for Crush pushing enemies away is something I wouldn't want. Any skill where you have to chase down enemies imo is not worth using. ie Terrify. I feel Crush should deal magnetic damage like normal but now have more bone fragments which actually deal slash/punc/impact damage to enemies in LoS. This'd at least might maybe help it kill something.

 

Thanks for sharing your opinion.

 

Well, you are basically suggesting something else for a good part of her skillset. I won't lie, I don't share your opinion, but I respect it. I think it might interest some people around. It could be worth a new thread.

 

 

+1 for your Topic. Your reworks are always nice.

Also I had some similar idea to that of Klizard. The main difference is his version makes Mag similar to Mesa.

[Trashing the old post for being too much confusionary]

EDIT:

Crush would work like this:

Cast Crush#4, Mag enters a stanced state ala Mesa's Pacemaker, projecting a large force field around herself. She can move meanwhile. Or not. Whatever.

Enemies caught in the range during the cast or enemies which enters it (for one reason or the other) gets immobilized and suspended ala Bastille. Plus, those enemies are kept inside the force field ala Nova's Antimatter Drop and will follow Mag.

Now, what Crush stance does, exactly like Peacemaker: Right Click load and disposes an enemy (caugh in the force field) in the guise of a projectile. Left Click shoots that enemy ala Soul Punch toward your crosshair.

Premature or intentional ending of Crush (interrupting the channeling by pressing#4 again) executes the trapped enemies exactly as the actual Crush does.

Keep in consideration that you could also combo other skills:

#1 Pull a group of enemies in the force field, then dispose of them as you wish;

#3 Bullet attractor on an heavy target, then pull inside the force field to use it as a living shield.

This way you could have different combos with 3 skills.

Old Post

I thought about making Crush a sort of force field (moving Bastille around Mag) that would turn enemies caught into an "AntimatterDrop disposable living-projectiles" ala Soul Punch.

To explain: enemies entering  the force field or caught during the cast are instantly immobilized and suspended similar to Bastille and follows you similar to how Antimatter Drop works.

Then the suspended enemies could be shot ala Soul Punch toward the crosshair.

A mechanic to make it work like that could be the Mesa's Pacemaker, in a energy drain sustained skill (left mouse button to throw enemies)

To conclude, suppressing the force field executes closer enemies completing the legacy-Crush.

So you can go around collecting and throwing enemies around.

4 to cast it, energy drain, Left Mouse to throw trapped enemies, 4 again to Crush trapped enemies.

This would definetly comboes with Pull.

I though also to something like comboing it with Bullect Attractor, so you can literally grab the unit and use it as a living shield.

 

 

I have read the edited version of your post. it's indeed less confusing and really looks awesome, and would definitely be an extremely good addition with my ragdoll rework idea. Crush might need a name change if we apply this maybe.

 

Can I add your suggestion to the main post ?

[Burnthesteak87]

@D20:
I'm all for idea sharing, do as you please ;)

Edited January 25, 2016 by Burnthesteak87

[Blakrana]

So if I'm understanding the idea for Crush, it gathers enemies before you dispose of them at your leisure by throwing them at other things...essentially letting Mag turn enemies into Railgun ammunition?

 

Cause if so, that'd be quite entertaining. The other elements could be an interesting way to play around with control alright.

[(PSN)crankonacranky]

Okay so I actually do like your idea of pulling or pushing because their are times when I have to revive people and get killed doing so. I try pulling them before I start the revive, but I've noticed with my range sometimes all that does is bring a whole different group by me. So yeah I would totally prefer to push them all the way.

And my dreams for every warframe is a combo system somewhat like what they had in Mass Effect 3. Which is why Mag was n always has been my favorite frame she just reminds me of the adept class for some reason.

So anyways I actually like your ideas, but with DE saying they want to give Mag n Volt a Excalibur rework some stuff might change. I personally would prefer a Saryn change which I like even if most people hate it. So this is just my concept feel free to critique as much as you want. Because in the end that's the goal to make a more viable mag.

Her 1st ability I would of left as is, but really like D20's push idea. So yeah that would be nice to go with mag.

Her 2nd ability is where most people will argue with me. It will go back to effecting a single target n only give mag shields when killed over shield with the augment. So have your reticle on a single target they are locked in place by a gravitational force. While in this state they will have a damage multiplier of X amount. When killed release a small AOE effect, but AOE and damage is bigger if killed with Mag powers of X amount.

The 3rd ability is now slam where it works like Oberons Reckoning ability. Mag picks up enemies and crush's them down to the ground. Fracturing Crush will still be its augment that strips armor.

The 4th ability crush is kinda where you get kinda a team support n massive CC. First of it is like cataclysm where you cast the ability in a area you desire and a iconic bullet attractor bubble appears based off of range imo. However this one differs because it's more like frost's snow globe. Enemies in the bubble are slowed down, but they can't shoot out because the bubble shields that.

When enemies are in the bubble it is also stripping them of either their shields or armor over time. The bubble works off of duration and is also a draining effect. So once the user recast the ability, duration ends, or energy runs out the bubble violently comes crushing inside itself. Enemies inside are slammed into each other. And a aura is released to any teammates around giving them a strength to their armor or shields for X amount n a X% of time.

So this sounds like it will do well with every faction, but infested. However the ability still has the slamming effect n will have knockdown effect so enemies are open up for finishers for a few second while they are dazed after impact.

Like I said I would love a combo system so the way I see it put up a crushing bubble push enemies into it then crush them. Or put up a bubble then pull enemies into the bubble then crush it. While they are regaining focus just unload on them or use a galantine n swing for the fences. Even shield polarize could have a combo system put a enemy in it then use slam and make a big explosion.

Well that's my idea feel free to criticize as much as you would like lol.

[BBYipho]

I am about to make a new thread on Mag.  Which will be a much more cleanup version of my old thread.  Though I do like the input I'm reading here so as a fellow Mag user I'll give feedback to move this back up.

 

• I've seen the Push/Pull thing suggesting quite a bit.  Normally since Equinox was new.  Luckily this is something more like Ivara's quiver in mechanics.  The major thing I have against making Pull into this, is how Pull treats enemies currently.  Enemies fly the opposite direction you're facing.  Making it harder for teammates to keep track to kill those targets.  In some cases this may be more troublesome for players as suddenly instead of enemies coming from one direction there is some possibly behind now.  You may agree or disagree with how I would change the ability in my old thread.  Which I mainly just wanted the ability to work on a targeted location instead, grouping the enemies.

 

• So Shield Polarize would be a form of CC with all the damage removed.  I just think the damage should be on the effected target(s) only.  No explosion harming nearby targets which most of the damage of Shield Polarize comes from.  I see you don't like the idea of regenerating shields but I am kind of more for that, as long the increased regeneration ignores the damage time out when we are hit.  I do agree how this new Shield Polarize should have some resistance to procs.

 

• So to recreate the problem that made Shield Polarize damaging, since that was based on power strength + enemy shield capacity, and apply it to health instead of a target inside the Bullet Attractor.  Which will also suck enemies in before exploding using X% of enemy health.  Pretty much making this ability only worth casting on the heavy targets.  I could see this devastating if a person can manage to kill a target effected by Trinity's Well of Life, however, due to the 10x health increase may not be as possible in beyond intended levels when the scaling spikes hard for enemy health.  I have an idea of a different approach to how this ability should work in my old thread.

 

 

• Crush.  I can agree that a strong Ragdoll effect will be better then what we currently have.  It's interesting seeing these ideas of reworking Crush completely.  I also had something similar someone posted in the thread I made.  So far I think I'm starting to like these ability replacements some people think up for Crush.

 

Make Crush a really good and FUN CC-skill. How about keeping it essentially the same, but changing its "ending" depending on your interactions? Do nothing and it ends the same as now. But hold fire (Mouse 1) when it ends = Clump the together in a ball in front of you when it ends (with slamdamage boosted by the amount of enemies collected)? Hold aim (Mouse2) when it ends = Throw enemies to your crosshair location (with landing impact-AoE-damage on new/thrown targets)? Stuff like that. The fun and versatility-possibilities are endless with this skill. And it really ought to deal Puncture damage too/instead. It's CRUSHING the enemies, pretty much impaling them in themselves. A mix of Magnetic and Puncture would make the most sense of that.

Link to his post: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/579718-mag-ability-reworks/page-2#entry6676314

 

I can agree that Ragdolls could use some reworking.  I mean Frost's Snow Globe can do 50% of a target's life in Finisher damage if they collide against a wall.

 

As for the passive I could understand the latch timer.  I would also like to add Aim Gliding timer to that.  If anything else I would like aim gliding to be more hovering when close to the ground.

 

Anyway love seeing other people's views.  I may make a new thread polishing up my own thoughts sometime soon.

 

-Other Thoughts:  I'm kind of sad my Glaive or Redeemer isn't effected by Bullet Attractor currently.  Seems the last few fixes for Bullet Attractor broke my Glaive combo I use.

[Madrox8]

Mag for me in the most part fine and she is my 2nd most used frame and dureing most events i use her, espesually in ther ecent event shadow dept i was eather a mag or a frost, depending what the team needed more.

 

only skills i would like see buffed is pull: it needs to remove the ragdoll of the enemies as it hinders teamplay more then anything, maybe stagger them or pull them straight down to the ground like a blast proc would be better as well as greedy pull be put on witht he skill already, and maybe rework greedy pull to do something else like increase loot drop chacne on an enemy (only once per enemy)

 

the other sill i can see a buff needed is bullet atractor, mind you this skill is AMAZING if you know how it works as it does increase dmage to the target, only buff it needs is the death explosion to deal more damage to make it more a cc skill.

 

crush is the only skill that needs a complete overhall, how i dont know

[DrBorris]

The other alternative to Bullet Attractor is to have it jump to the nearest enemy once you kill the original one cast on, but this works too.

 

But... that could just be an augment. Another Bullet Attractor augment would be to slightly reduce the range, remove the explosion, but make it a 25 energy ability.

 

 

Besides that, great rework.

[Djego27]

Push\Pull:

 

Could work, however push is ultimately better then pull outside of melee builds(not really a fan of that on mag). It also needs a working augment mod again, if DE can ever find the time to actually fix spawning of certain maps(that is still broken) instead of nerfing mag.

 

Bullet attractor:

 

The main problem is being bound to duration and not scaling with power strength for the damage bonus(while you allready miss out on extra head shot or other weak spot damage). If it would have a fixed duration or at least 30s at base so 1 duration mod would do the trick it would be a lot better. Another big thing is that it just disappears after this one unit, it should simply switch to the next target in range for the remaining duration. Having a percentage of damage done to it(similar to absorb) as AOE damage after the effect will also help.

 

Crush:

I think the main problem of crush is that it often has issues with targets ignoring CC during the 3 ticks during lag. It is not so bad for CC, however the augment mod is fairly bad and should remove the armor permanently instead of being based on duration on a frame that has next to no duration.

 

Shield Polarise:

 

Well I don't use mag in the void any more since the healer changes, it is just that without shield polarise there goes all you scalability as dps frame. At high levels vs corpus it does have counters in form of guardian eximus units and will not wipe the map of some drones, techs also need to launch her shield drone and need to be polarised again for a kill when they are not close to a high shield unit. Just look at mag in void defence or survival, healers are common as dirt and also guardian moas are not to uncommon at high levels to a point where shield polarise does exactly do what you suggest. This in return just means that mag is only viable if you want to play to extreme high levels where you hard CC everything and shoot any guardian\healer up front without AOE nuking. Other than this every other utility or dps frame will be more effective.

 

While some could argue that shield polarise is only in that difficult spot to balance with bullet attractor having to much issues to provide another viable tool, taking away shields is not such a big thing in general. The reason for this is mostly that shields are much better designed then armor when it comes to counters that players can use, they will deplete very quick vs a status build weapon with magnetic(nearly every weapon in the game is viable for this since you only need 2-3 procs, different to armor where you dozens of them) or can by bypassed with toxic damage. Even a L100 sorti with extra shields can be played without mag and just toxic weapons(bows, shotguns in particular) or status rifles with magnetic reasonable well.

 

I don't think it will work without damage, even if it might work if it does not kill(debatable) at least some kind of scaling damage should be included. The only alternative I see would be actually changing the magnetic proc into full healer and eximus aura disable for a reasonable time frame(lets say 10s static or 20s at base so it would work with negative duration), then again this is also very niche, even if we look at high level game play.

Edited February 5, 2016 by Djego27

[VRHmason]

I really like the part about shield polarize, it is too much for number 2 skill and it is just way too illogical to just do damage to corpus.

Now I might use her even more. ..good job!

[(XBOX)Aquarii Ptosi]

Pretty cool idea a lot of what you said I agree with. Staying tactical while remembering magnetism is pulling and repelling I'd suggest that Bullet attractor be both offensive an Defensive I.e give it something like an optional turbulence effect where she repels all bullets if cast on her or a teammate or if targeting an enemy it does basically what it does now just give it a multiple cast like frost bubble a max 4. Oh an js guns are usually made of metal why can't she pulled them away?... Also crush change is awesome as a channel tech imo but DE could get SO much more versatility out of mag if the argument was affected by power strength and could remove all armor.

Edited February 6, 2016 by (XB1)Aquarii Ptosi

[Burnthesteak87]

And after 4 months...

Edited May 28, 2016 by Burnthesteak87