Mesa Rework Concept

[MrNoID]

Ok so, here's my Mesa Concept for the Gunslinger:

Passive:
Whenever Mesa wields "Dual Secondary Weapons", she gains +10% increased damage for the duration of the mission.
(This damage multiplyer benefits her abilities, as well as all the damage she deals with her weapons.)

Whenever Mesa Wields "One Handed Secondary Weapon", she gains 25% bonus Draw, Sheeting and Cast speed for the duration of the mission.
(this bonus benefits all the weapons, and Skills she uses.)

Whenever Mesa Doesn't have any Melee weapons equipped, she gains +5% increased damage and 50 bonus life for the duration of the mission.
(This bonus works additively with the "Dual Secondary Weapons" ' bonus, up to a 15% increased damage to all her skills, and weapons' damage and 50 bonus lifepoints for the duration of the mission.)

1st Skill:
Explosives: Basically 25 Energy Cost/Cast

Mesa Throws a Grenade to the direction of the cursor, the grenade has a fixed throw velocity (20m~max while thrown at a 45°-50° degree at flat).
The Grenade deals Blast damage, with a 100% status chance with a Base 150/300/450/600(Edited) damage (from lvl0-to lvl3 Respectievely) at the epicenter (half of the radius) of the explosion, down to only 50% at the periferia of the explosion.
The Radius of the explosion is 3m/4m/5m/6m (from lvl 0-to lvl 3).
The explosion does only damage to enemies (has no self damage, nor Friendly damageoutput), the grenade bounces off of Surfaces, as well as Nullfyer Shields, or Arctic Eximuses' Ice Boubble.
(Basically Acts as a grenade fired from a Penta, Would Require a new Throwing animation)
The Grenade would have an integrated 4 second countdown before it explodes, from the instance of the cast.

Reactivating the Skill, would Cause the Granade to Explode, within the integrated cooldown.
- Syndicate mod:
Explosion Expert:

If Mesas Secondary weapons have Status Effects, Explosives gain an additional Status Damage, 20%/40%/60%/80%/100% increased Grenade Damage as an Additional Status effect proc on top of the Original Blast damage.

 

2nd Skill:
Enhanced Bullets (or Shooting Galery): Basically 50 Energy Cost/Cast

Mesa Casts an AoE Buff (The Animation can stay the same, but ALL allies in the area would have the spinning Circle around them as well as Mesa, at the same time.)
in a 5m/6m/7m/8m radius around her, for herself and for all alies in the area, Increasing by a ramping up damage bonus, each atack they make:
the First atack will deal a bonus 1% damage, the second a bonus 2% damage, and so on, up to the 20th atack, that will have a 20% increased damage, calculted from the modded weapons', or Skills' damage,
separately to all players.
This damage Bonus Benefits Skills, Bullets/Rounds fired by Weapons as well as Atacks by Mele weapons, or Followers/Sentinels.
It can Critically hit, if the weapons or skills, effected by this damage buff, can critically strike originaly.
- Syndicate mod:
Handmade Ammunition:
While Enhanced Bullets (or Shooting Galery)is active, all Rounds Fired and Atacks, have a bonus 10%/20%30%40%50% Chance to Cause Status Effects on enemies. In Addition, Rounds Fired and Atacks have a bonus 4%/8%/12%/16%20% Increased Chance to Critically Strike.

 

3rd Skill:
Shatter Shield: Basically 75 Energy Cost/Cast

Mesa shields herself from incoming damage, for 14s/18s/22s/26seconds, for 40%/50%/60%/70% (from lvl0-to lvl3 Respectively),
up to a Maximum of 80% damage reduction from all sources.
In Addition, she gains a 30%/40%/50%/60% increased Knockdown Recovery (Up to a Maximum of 80% Knockdown Recovery) for the Duration of the shield.
(The Animation can Stay the same)
- Syndicate Mod:
Hightened Senses:
While Shatter Shield is Active, Mesa Gains an Additional 5%/10%/15%/20%/25% Chance to Evade Status Effects, in addition She has 5%/10%/15%/20%/25% reduced Extra Damage taken From Critical Strikes

4th Skill:
Peacemaker: Has NO Energy Cost to Cast, but it Drains 15 Energy/Second While Active

Mesa Draws her Regulator Pistols with intense focus (tunel vision effect) to rapidely Aim and Shoot at her Opponents. (She allways Fires at the Closest Enemy to her, at the middle of the torso.)
She has a Base Reticule of the skill: 50%/55%/60%/65% of the total Field of wiev (up to a Maximum of 75%) (It Doesn't starts to Ramp up NOR Speed, NOR Damage as she Fires,
and, it DOESN'T starts to Reduce The field of Wiew of the Reticule for Targetable Enemies, it is affected by Power Range Mods.)
she has a Base Atack Speed on the Regulator Pistols: 3/4/5/6 Shots/sec (up to a Maximum of  8 Shots/Sec),
She Can Move while she uses her 4th skill (but with a reduced Field of wiew, allthough if she stands still, she would use the same animationset that she uses now)
She has a Base Damage for her Regulator Pistols: From lvl 0 to lvl 3 Respectively: 75slash-75puncture-75impact/100-100-100/125-125-125/150slash-150puncture-150impact damage/shot.
Her Regulator Pistols Have a Base 20% Chance to Critically strike, and they have a 2.5*X Critical Multiplyer on them.
Her Regulator Pistols' Benefits from the Damage Modifyers of Mesas Secondary Weapons (multishot, elemental Damage, Combined Elemental Damage, status Chance procs, Critical hit Mods included)
Rounds Fired from the Regulator Pistols should Act as Projectiles (Braton, Burston projectiles alike) instead of Instant hitting targets, and ignoring Nullfyer boubbles, they should Deal Reduced damage to them (like all Rounds Fired on them should deal only the Base Damage of the Regulator Pistols, Mods and Bonus Skilldamage ignored, Since thoose things supposed to Nullfy all Warframe Abilities)

 

Important to Mention, Peacemaker is currently Bugging a lot, while she needs to Fire At Enemies Trapped By Vauban's abilities for Example, or Slowed-Frozen by Frosts' Abilities, or Captured by Trinitys' Energy Vampire skill, and so on, mostly against enemies under CrowdControl effects... so, this issue needs to be fixed please.

(The AnimationSet may stay the same while Mesa's Stationary, but She May use the animationset of any Dual Wield Secondary Weapons' as she moves around.)

 

In Addition, She should be able to Cast her other abilities, while in the state of Intense Focus of the Peacemaker.

 

Edit: Syndicate mod ideas added
Edit: 1st ability: Explosives Damage reduction by 50%

Edit: While at the State of Intense Focus, Mesa Shouldn't have any Energy Regeneration Passively what so ever, to respect the functioning of the other frames in the game. Deleted the Energy Regen section at the skill.
Edit: Reduced the Passive Damageincrese, and Draw or Sheeting speed buff by 50%, multiple person mentioned how over Powered it is.
 

Thanks for reading my Concept, Let me Know what you think, Cheers o/

Edited February 11, 2016 by MrNoID

[sappinmahsentry]

I hope you know that your passive suggestion is absolutely OP.

[Insizer]

1.) Why would a cowgirl throw grenades? Why not make Ballistic Battery affect gun damage over a duration rather than one bullet? Your grenade ability is boring and bad.

 

2.) I can kind of see your enhanced bullets ability, but I like the melee block of Shooting Gallery.

 

3.) If you reduce the max protection of Shatter Shield then buff her armor to compensate

 

4.) No, preventing passive energy regen is a standard thing done to prevent BS from occuring in-game. And casting cost is not the problem, its the drain cost. No other ability comes close to that drain.

[MrNoID]

@Sappinmahsentry ->

 

Carefuly planned her Main Passives, eighter the incresed damageoutput, eighter the increased Draw, Sheeting, Cast speed increase, she can only benefit one at a time, and she'll need one of them for sure, She'll need to plan her moves against different enemy types, on different missiontypes to be able to Succeed.
I was wandering about useful Passives for a while, what she could Use Effectively to enforce her arzenal, she would need reinforcements to keep her Energy Consumption at bay on the long run, or she'd need to deal with enemies before they would be able to owerhaul her with Brute Force, such as Infesteds with a Combination of 3 different Eximuses, 2 Healers, 1 Ancient Distruptor, Moas, and hordes of Chargers, Leapers at a tight area, as you reach lvl 50+ enemies, that'll happen pretty often, please Reconsider the meaning of OP on the concept.

@Insizer ->

1. The Grenades would Function as CrowdControl Tools of her. On Bullet, so you could Strategically Use the effect on the long run (for example while Sniping long distance targets, or using the ramping up damage against groups of let's say enemies of 10, where you'll need to face multiple low lifepool enemies, and probably one leader type enemy, such an Eximus, where you can deal increased damage with the last few bullets of the 20 (as a ramped up damagesource) against the main target.
Her Buff Would benefit Allies as well, so all teammates, and Followers would gain the same bonus Ramping up Damage.
The Increased Damage over duration is the tool of Rhino.

2. The Shatter Shield would protect her for a while against Close Range Enemies from now on, instead of the her Current Second ability, Shooting Galery, with Reduced maximum Effectiveness.
 

3. No, the Armor on her should be Low, She'd gain Damage Reduction from the Shatter shield against Ranged and Melee units as well, so she eighter needs help to refill her energypool to be protected, or she'd need to keep distance from the enemies, as a well positioned Marksman should do, or she'd just deserve to be eviscerated by melee Units in a few seconds.

4. The Pasive Energy Regen as well as energy Regen from Team Energy Restores, or Trinitys' Energy Vampire should be allowed to her while she uses Peacemaker as well as she should be able to cast her other spells while in the state of intense Focus of Peacemaker, and the Energy Drain is perfect as it is, the Casting Cost should be 0, so she can use that cost to activate other abilities of her in a Fast Phased Combat situation, as she should Act against multiple enemies in a range of 10m.

I suggest you to Build her in a different, more efficient way, to see how low you can get her energy Drain at the moment, i could reach 3.75 energy/sec drain on her Peacemaker, and she could spam it around for a while, but the Decreasing Visibility, the Bugs while she should shoot, but she just ignores the Targets, standing still, or the allmost non existent damageoutput of her felt really punishing against endgame content.

Edited January 28, 2016 by MrNoID

[Insizer]

@Insizer ->

1. The Grenades would Function as CrowdControl Tools of her. On Bullet, so you could Strategically Use the effect on the long run (for example while Sniping long distance targets, or using the ramping up damage against groups of let's say enemies of 10, where you'll need to face multiple low lifepool enemies, and probably one leader type enemy, such an Eximus, where you can deal increased damage with the last few bullets of the 20 (as a ramped up damagesource) against the main target.

Her Buff Would benefit Allies as well, so all teammates, and Followers would gain the same bonus Ramping up Damage.

The Increased Damage over duration is the tool of Rhino.

2. The Shatter Shield would protect her for a while against Close Range Enemies from now on, instead of the her Current Second ability, Shooting Galery, with Reduced maximum Effectiveness.

 

3. No, the Armor on her should be Low, She'd gain Damage Reduction from the Shatter shield against Ranged and Melee units as well, so she eighter needs help to refill her energypool to be protected, or she'd need to keep distance from the enemies, as a well positioned Marksman should do, or she'd just deserve to be eviscerated by melee Units in a few seconds.

4. The Pasive Energy Regen as well as energy Regen from Team Energy Restores, or Trinitys' Energy Vampire should be allowed to her while she uses Peacemaker as well as she should be able to cast her other spells while in the state of intense Focus of Peacemaker, and the Energy Drain is perfect as it is, the Casting Cost should be 0, so she can use that cost to activate other abilities of her in a Fast Phased Combat situation, as she should Act against multiple enemies in a range of 10m.

I suggest you to Build her in a different, more efficient way, to see how low you can get her energy Drain at the moment, i could reach 3.75 energy/sec drain on her Peacemaker, and she could spam it around for a while, but the Decreasing Visibility, the Bugs while she should shoot, but she just ignores the Targets, standing still, or the allmost non existent damageoutput of her felt really punishing against endgame content.

I suggest you don't get ahead of yourself. I know how to build Mesa, and I know how low it can get, I'm not an idiot. I was pointing out 15 energy/sec as a base is ridiculous when compared to other toggle abilities. The fact that you need max efficiency to make her ult (which doesn't scale) viable is ridiculous. 

 

1.) Tossing a remote grenade a crowd control ability does not make. Your idea is lobbing a remotely detonated tonkor grenade. And again, how do grenades fit the cowgirl/wild west theme of Mesa?

 

1.5) I understand where you are going with Enhanced Bullets. I'm just not too keen on the prospect of requiring 20 bow shots or other low firerate/low ammo pool/low ammo magazine capacity/long charge time weapons which would be heavily penalized by the ability versus say bullet hoses and the like.

 

2 and 3.) I do understand where you are going. And I partially agree, but I'd still increase her armor to compensate. That extra 15% matters. I use Mesa as a long term survivor/virtual tank frame. I regularly solo T4S for 40+ mins. Shatter Shield and Shooting gallery are my bread and butter. I can tell you though the knockback resistance would be very nice. All of that aside, your new Shatter Shield is OP because of how much you are cramming into it.

 

4.) No energy regens from passive regen, team energy plates, would produce an extremely massive amount of BS within the game. With those energy regen sources I could go max efficiency, with energy siphon and zenurik passive and the drain would be virtually nothing, if anything at all... I have nothing against being able to move, but non pickup energy regen is OP, BS, and stupid no matter how you look at it. Also, making them projectiles goes against the principals of lock-ons...

Edited February 1, 2016 by Insizer

[iDEBz]

I posted my own concept just under a week ago care to give it some attention?

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/599781-another-mesa-rework-hear-me-out/

[MrNoID]

@Insizer ->

Sorry sir, i'm too old to fight here with your yung raging blood. Will just ignore your posts from now on.. sorry.

@iDEBz ->

Yes, i did red your post, and ideas, even before posted this rework suggenstion of mine above. Mostly i like them, in any case, would be sweet if we could Make DE to react to theese topics at least with a Yes, or No. (we can't tell if they have any changes in mind anyway, nor if they have time, or capacity (you feeling it? :D) to make any reworks on the current frames, i was just wandering around :). (really don't think they would ever pay attention to any posts here, but if they do, well, it would make us happy for sure.)

Btw, please take the rework idea post above as a reply to your own rework idea, so you can see what i think about your suggestions, and it was your post that made me think, what, if i'd make one as well.

Edited January 31, 2016 by MrNoID

[iDEBz]

@Insizer ->

Sorry sir, i'm too old to fight here with your yung raging blood. Will just ignore your posts from now on.. sorry.

@iDEBz ->

Yes, i did red your post, and ideas, even before posted this rework suggenstion of mine above. Mostly i like them, in any case, would be sweet if we could Make DE to react to theese topics at least with a Yes, or No. (we can't tell if they have any changes in mind anyway, nor if they have time, or capacity (you feeling it? :D) to make any reworks on the current frames, i was just wandering around :). (really don't think they would ever pay attention to any posts here, but if they do, well, it would make us happy for sure.)

Btw, please take the rework idea post above as a reply to your own rework idea, so you can see what i think about your suggestions, and it was your post that made me think, what, if i'd make one as well.

Exactly what i was thinking, if we can get DE's attention maybe something will finally be done about it.

[i_Lex]

1.) Why would a cowgirl throw grenades? Why not make Ballistic Battery affect gun damage over a duration rather than one bullet? Your grenade ability is boring and bad.

2.) I can kind of see your enhanced bullets ability, but I like the melee block of Shooting Gallery.

3.) If you reduce the max protection of Shatter Shield then buff her armor to compensate

4.) No, preventing passive energy regen is a standard thing done to prevent BS from occuring in-game. And casting cost is not the problem, its the drain cost. No other ability comes close to that drain.

How does a shield surrounding mesa shattering all incoming bullet fit a cowgirl?

How does a dmg buff trough energy fit a cowgirl?

How does the term space ninja fit a cowgirl?

How does hidden pistols hitting all surrounding enemies in an aeo fit a cowgirl?

Edited January 31, 2016 by sniperbro-captian-PS

[Akiryx]

The chances of Mesa getting a rework or anything similar anytime soon are basically zero anyway.

[Insizer]

How does a shield surrounding mesa shattering all incoming bullet fit a cowgirl?

How does a dmg buff trough energy fit a cowgirl?

How does the term space ninja fit a cowgirl?

How does hidden pistols hitting all surrounding enemies in an aeo fit a cowgirl?

 

1.) Shields that only affect bullets involve bullets, bullets fit wild west theme.

 

2.) Shooting Gallery deploys energy which looks like it is lassoing, and it affects bullets. Bullets and lassos fit Wild West theme.

 

3.) Warframe stopped being "ninja" a long time ago.

 

4.) Pistoling enemies... Wild West theme. Sure it goes overboard with the auto-lock, but still.

 

@Insizer ->

Sorry sir, i'm too old to fight here with your yung raging blood. Will just ignore your posts from now on.. sorry.

 

"Raging", right... Son, if you think that a list of critiques is "raging" then you really have had a sheltered life. I gave you legitimate criticism in the form of a point by point dismal of your contentions and you blow it off like nothing. If you can't address my contentions to defend your own, then please reconsider your ideas. You have no high horse to get on, so stop pretending to be "above this all". My points stand whether you ignore them or not because you have yet to address them.

Edited February 1, 2016 by Insizer

[YasaiTsume]

I like Ballistic battery.... but not as it is right now.

I feel someone has mentioned to me before and I think it's a great idea,

to make Ballistic Battery unload a burst with her Regulators after she finishes Charging up. 

[FrostedMike]

1. Feel too strong, I think the damage should be reduced.

2. If I understood correctly, it's the good old Shooting Gallery but buffs everyone without switching. I also think that this should be a thing.
3. Shutter Shield. I think it should stay as it is, it's her best defensive ability.
4. moving while Peacemaker is active, yes please!

[Zalnarth]

mind if i weigh in my 2 cents?

those passives, way too strong, my thoughts considering passives are that they shouldn't be a potentially deciding factor in choosing a frame, just neat little benifets that make you go, "Oh! thats kinda cool" definitely no stronger than a 5 cap mod, consider the rhino passive, 

the grenade is... insane (also, make it a stick of dynamite, for theme), 1200 damage? again, look at other DPS caster frames, most cap out at 400 with a good status chance, think of how heavily power mods affect abilities, the radius is a little too large, with range mods pushing it to around 20 meters, perhaps better to bring it down to 5 meters, then give is a 100% blast proc, you mentioned Crowd controll, thats not about dealing damage, it is all about delaying and debilitating the enemy.
a syndicate mod for it could make a short cloud of dust to blind enemies(opening to finishers) 

shooting gallery and your enhanced bullets, choose one, either make it a defensive affect or an offensive one, not a catch all. The per-shot affect, I'm not fond of, make it a flat bonus to all guns, I rather like the idea of incoorporating the crit affect of the syndicate mod you suggested into the base affect, 30% damage and 30% crit chance at max rank, drop the status, again, avoid catch alls, if this is a damage ability let it be a damage ability in the pureist sence, I don't mind the idea of it being a group buff, it's no more heinous than rhino's roar or valkyr's warcry
as far as syndicate mods go, I'm not sure, most frames have 3 syndicate mods and an ability like this doesn't really need one

shatter sheild, honnestly I think this ability is too strong in it's current form, maybe reduce the base to a value similar to saryn's toxic lash, scaled up to compensate for the lack of bonus damage, about 60% damage reduction at max rank, still easy to max out but just requires a smidge more effort
a syndicate mod for this one could easily be a 100% puncture proc chance when shooting, goes hand in hand witht he defensive side of things

as for Peace maker, I agree reguarding the 0 energy cost to activate, I agree you should be able to use other abilities, but like every other channeled ability, definitely no energy regen, the rule has to be blanket across all frames, no acceptions, while the energy cost being reduced to about 8 per second would bring it in line with the strength of it's affect, a base damage of about 100-150, affected by secondary weapon mods would more than make it a deadly tool, and I say this with confidence compared to other weapon 4) affects because the greater majority of thoes are melee, get rid of the focus ring shrinking and you are in bunsiness

everything else, eh, no clue, 

[Insizer]

I like Ballistic battery.... but not as it is right now.

I feel someone has mentioned to me before and I think it's a great idea,

to make Ballistic Battery unload a burst with her Regulators after she finishes Charging up. 

That would be awesome

[i_Lex]

1. Feel too strong, I think the damage should be reduced.

2. If I understood correctly, it's the good old Shooting Gallery but buffs everyone without switching. I also think that this should be a thing.

3. Shutter Shield. I think it should stay as it is, it's her best defensive ability.

4. moving while Peacemaker is active, yes please!

1. try using peacemaker with a lvl 50 heavy gunner . Then try a spin attack with the same enemy with a imortal valkyr....

2.yes

3. agreed

4. eh... I dont mind standing still if it wont cost energy on cast....

[MrNoID]

Really surprised how many of you Replyed in this topic, thank you guys, i know the way you see her are different, some wants some cowgirls, others space Ninjas, i'm kind of looking at her as a Space Headhunter, and discussed about her with a few Veterans, they explained to me how overused She was, how every party wanted a Mesa for the Damageoutput, aswell as a Mag for the heavy Crowd Control.

The only thing i think about the Drastical changes DE made to her lately, is, like if they Spitted the fans on theyr' face, who're worked on her to make the basically strong old Mesa even stronger. It's only my personal opignion about the changes, just ignore this post please if you feel different.

Made 2 Edits:
- Added some Syndicate Mod ideas.
- Reduced the Granade Damageoutput by 50%, it would still be a Useful CC and a powerful Damage output against lvl1-lvl40 enemies, it would fall off after lvl 30 enemies hard without the syndicate mod.

@Zalnarth ->
- Understood, Reducing the Passives' Potentials, let's see how it would look like by a 50% Reduction (exept the Life increase)
- Loving the Stick of Dynamite Idea (watching at Mesas' Belt, she seems to have some sort of Grenades on her anyway)
- Yes i see the point of the Smoke On the grenade as a Debilating effect, sounds good, i Did Edited the Grenade Damageoutput, dropped it by 50%, realized how much damage it would'we deal especially with Mod buffs.
- If we would push the Range on Mesa Only for the grenade, we would benefit the range for the Enhaced Bullets(or Shooting Gallery), and the field of view for the Peacemaker as well, but i think we would instead build her around her Peacemeaker and Shatter shield.
- I see the NO ENERGYREGEN point for the state of Intense Focus on the Peacemaker, i'm standing Corrected, Editing my post keeping this in mind.
- I did Reduced the Max Damagereduction on Shatter Shield, but it would Protect Mesa from Melee Damage as well for the duration, and i kept it a Defense only Skill by the Syndicate Mod as well, it would keep her alive against lvl 90+ enemies.
- this idea of the Shooting Galery would make the Damagebuff different from Rhinos' Roar, as it would benefit our next 20 atacks, or shots, or skills, compared to Rhinos' Damageincrease for a Duration. This would give us a Chance to utilize the ramping up damage against Heavy Units, while We snipe for example, by shooting the weaker targets first, and finishing the main target with one or 2 bullets with the last few Enhanced shoots.
I do agree, this idea might require some serious Computerworks behind the scenes to Calculate all damageincreases for all partymembers separately, you might be right, and i should just let go the idea of the ramping up damage on Bullets/Attacs.

@Akyrix ->
Yes i know, just wandering about some changes, posted a few ideas. Not part of the Programming group, only a consumer.

Edited February 11, 2016 by MrNoID