I Am Void - Focus Feedback With New Zenurik Concept.

[Kinperor]

Greetings,

After having spent a good period of time using the newly introduced Focus system in the game, we have made our mind on the usefulness of the system, its flaws, its advantages and its thematic. The purpose of this thread is twofold. First, we will sum up its pros and cons. Second, we will submit a proposal to keep the best of the system and bring the rest in line.

Our assessments on the system is inherently subjective and limited to the Paths we have used. Our first-hand experience is limited to Zenurik and Madurai. Despite this, we will submit proposals for all 5 Paths, based both on our interpretation of the Paths' perks and community feedback.

While the specific details will vary across all Paths, we will use the same framework for the individual reworks. This framework will be described in each threads, as both a reminder and an introduction to newer readers.

 

Please see the following link for the Madurai "I am Fire" rework thread.

Please see the following link for the Naramon "I am Wood" rework thread.

Please see the following link for the Unairu "I am Rock" rework thread.

Please see the following link for the Vazarin "I am Tide" rework thread.

 

EDIT: Superseding all these threads, see the final concept wrap up.

 

What holds Focus back,

Our analysis of the Focus system, as per its current alpha iteration, has brought up the following issues limiting its popularity:

• Passives are too timid with the stats granted, or have stats that are too niche.

• Unreliable pseudo-passive have little appeal.

• The active abilities are too dull, with limited use and/or poor return on usage.

• Scattered applications of some Paths (imbalance in offense and defense).

 

The Focus system currently has too many niche passives, and passives with effects that are too timid to avoid being overpowered. For instance, Naramon's Shadow Step is considered the main selling point of the tree. Similarly, the ideal build in Zenurik can be summarized by a single line with a 135 angle. Meanwhile, Unairu is left in the dust with an armor buff that is very under-tuned in how small the targeted crowd is (only tanks), and how little the boost is (12%). In comparison, Shadow Step can give a superior form of safety to a player, and Overflow allows the players to cast abilities at will. We submit that the Paths require more passives like Overflow and Shadow Steps, and less like Stone Shape.

On the subject of pseudo-passive, we have noticed an averse reactions to abilities that grant a short boost to their stats, in some case an exchange between two stats. The very description of the abilities causes skepticism, because the trigger of the perk is unknown. Players cannot (and will not) appreciate the value of a perk with this kind of unknown. The logical assumption is that the active ability triggers these perks; in these situations, the perks will be dismissed as too short-lived when compared to the added cooldown to the active. Note: We will not discuss the value of each individual perks in this thread. Our rework will try to keep the perks that presents good value to the player.

Regarding the actives, our current impression in general is that the actives are likened to Warframe abilities, and are judged in relation to those. Consequently, the majority of the actives are decent by themselves, but when compared to abilities, they appear less versatile and reliable. Indeed, we can build to spam Bastille to our heart content, while Zenurik's active is limited in mobility, range and cooldown. Our conclusions: actives needs to be more distinct and to be powerful enough that the players look forward to casting it, instead of just activating it for a specific passive, which seems to be the statu quo for some Paths.

It is our opinion that the practical application of some Paths are scattered. Unairu for example has more or less the same amount of defensive and offensive perks, while it comes with the expectation of being a defensive Paths. We believe the ratio should be brought back in line for some Paths. Of course, we have to allow enough creative freedom to offer variety within the same Path, which goes to explain the current imbalance, as well as some perks that at first sight aren't the best fit for a Path in our rework.

What Focus has done right,

 

• The delayed passives make an “Eleventh Hour” power spike.

• The acquisition and pool system for abilities has potential for versatility and expansion.

• A mix of duration-based perks with sustained passives supports different play style.

 

Considering the base firepower of Tenno, we find it appropriate to limit some passives in the matter it currently is limited. We acknowledge the irritability caused by delayed satisfaction. However, since its introduction in the Design Council long ago, Focus was always presented as a “Final Showdown” power-spike, a trump-card to overcome great challenges. What it wasn't presented as: a second layer of mods that are immediately active. We have opted for a compromise in our rework, with passives that are available early and a second tier whose activation is delayed.

Our impressions is that the current acquisition and activation of perks is appropriate since it lays down the foundation for a versatile system where a player can buy a bank of perks from which he can later pick and activate perks to his liking. We acknowledge that the tree's expansion is limited by a few perks being more desirable than others, which functionally turn some Paths into “One point wonders”.

Above, we addressed “pseudo-passive” that were too unreliable for widespread use. Here, we acknowledge that power spikes that are limited in duration can create interesting mechanics and add variability to game sessions. However, the trigger leaves to be desired for the majority and must then be replaced.

TL;DR:

See the bullets points to see what requires change and what is a valuable aspect of the system.

To summarize it, our position is that Focus requires passives that give a real feeling of empowerment that support a variety of roles and Warframes. Some aspects of the system support this visions, while others do not.

A few comments about the suggested rework,

We believe that balance is necessary for the long-term health of the plan. With that said, it is our opinion that for Focus to be successful, it needs a good deal more power to really catch the player's attention and become part of the post-end-game meta. It is why our suggestions might seem to verge on the "overpowered" at times, and it explains in equal measure why we added a endlessly scaling component to the Paths when we deemed it reasonable.

We have also decided to use only one thread, instead of making a thread for feedback and one for the fan-concept sub-forums.

Let us now dive in the thick of the rework.

-----

New framework for the perks,

As we said above, the Focus system requires a slight tweak to it's structure to be more reliable, enjoyable and versatile. We suggest the following:

Perks are now spread in three categories:
 

 

• Passives: Stat or mechanic variations, conditional or not, that are active at all time, except if the conditions aren't present. Conditions are not the same as a timed buff.

 

• Keeping in line with the concept of Focus as a “Final Hour” system, we differentiate between tier 1 passives (up at all time) and tier 2 passives (up after casting the active).
• You can have as many passives as you want at once, as long as you have enough points or the requirement for it. (One tier 1 and one Simis are required for the tier 2 passives).

 

• Simis, for simili-actives : Abilities that can be used in-between casts of the main active by using the same trigger as the main ability (“5” by default).

 

• Only one Simis can be active at once. Many can be acquired to be equiped at different times.
• Requires one use of the main active to use.

 

• Active behavior: Passive perks that affects specifically the main active (ex: Chimera Breath with Phoenix Gaze). Their effects may apply during the use of the active, and in some cases have residual effects past that period.

 

 

The distinction of these perks will change the dynamics of the skills trees. Please refer to the info-graphic support to better understand their interactions.



The Focus Pool system remains as is. The cooldown system remains as is, with the following minor tweaks:

• All actives now have a 150 seconds cooldown.
• Perks now add only 15 seconds to the cooldown.
• No more cooldown mastery.

 

Maintained Thematic:

A conscious effort was made throughout the preparation of this rework to maintain the identity of each “Paths”. We have reduced the different Paths to certain core characteristics, based on the information already given in the game:

 

• Zenurik: Domination through Warframes.
• Targeted clientele: Casters, supports.

 

• Madurai: Reckless offense, area of effect.
• Targeted clientele: Casters, marksmen, swordsmen.

 

• Naramon: Martial prowess, tactical flexibility.
• Targeted clientele: Marksmen, swordsmen.

 

• Unairu: Unadulterated damage mitigation.
• Targeted clientele: Tanks, casters.

 

• Vazarin: Renewal and safeguard.
• Targeted clientele: Tanks, supports.

We elected to conserve the elemental identities of each paths, who were more or less implicit. In order, these elements would be Void, Fire, Wood, Rock, Tide. Only Madurai was changed, we interpreted the initial aesthetic as being “Gale” or “Wind”, based on the blast damage of Phoenix Gaze and the smoke aesthetic. We decided Fire was more workable for a damage path.

Finally, we have thematically split each Paths into three “Tracks”. We will name and explore the Tracks in the thread relating to its specific Path. The Tracks serves as design direction for perks, and functionally will not limit the choice of the player to only one Track when deciding which perks he desires. The objective is for the players to sidetrack on any Path and forge his own way to the mastery of the Path.


-----

Zenurik rework,

“I am Void”

The Void. Not just a void, but the Void. Outside the game, “void” as a concept of Eastern philosophy refers to more than just emptiness: it is potential or opportunities. In the game's context, The Void is mysterious, hidden and most importantly a dangerous dimensions coursing with energy. Even the Orokin were afraid of it and the demonic powers it imparted on some unlucky travelers.

This is the basis for Zenurik's rework: Raw energy, hard to reach, harmful.

Zenurik active,

As part of this rework, we aim to give every actives some bonuses to make them feel good to cast, not be a quick cast to get access to passives.

We submit the following change for Void Pulse:

• Now gives a flat bonus to max energy pool for every enemy that is hit by the ability.
• The max energy bonus is calculated thusly: [Number of points in the “Focus Pool”] / 2.
• The above number is rounded up and applied once per enemy suspended by Void Pulse.
• The max energy gained is capped to 20 per pulse (multiply by the amount of pulses you release to know the maximum possible).
• Lasts throughout the mission.

 

This change is made for two reasons: For synergy with the new perks and to allow some fringe Warframes to dabble in the world of casters even if they do not have a large base energy pool.

It is our deepest wish that any follower of the Zenurik Path feel total freedom to make builds that are as energivore as possible with no regard with efficiency, and that Tenno can express domination with Blind RAEG equipped at all time. At the same time, we aim to make perks with substantial difference so that they aren't all a different way to do the same thing, so one shouldn't expect every skills to have the same value to a caster or player.

The Path of Zenurik branches into three tracks that cross, merge and split at will*:

• Track of the Vessel: The Vessel carries the Void willingly with him, and through this connection, he channels the potential of the Void to boost his own abilities. Enemies are given no option: They will submit to the Void and, shortly after, die.

 

 

• Track of the Presence: To call this Track “stealthy” would be a gross overestimation of the subtlety of the Void. There is rarely any doubt about the proximity of a Presence, and yet, this knowledge doesn't help in any way when the time comes to expel one who is hidden by the Void.

 

 

• Track of the Wound: Not all agrees on how the Void should be weaponized. The Wound lash out at the Void and cause gaping rifts that gnaw at the enemy. By all accounts, the Wound is nothing less than a walking disaster, a thorough argument against using the Void.

 

* Reminder: “Tracks” are all part of the same Zenurik skill tree (or Path). For the sake of clarity, we split them up in the presentation post.

 

Edited April 14, 2016 by Kinperor
Added link.

[Kinperor]

Talking points,

 

Want to partake into the thread but not sure what to address? Consider the following:

 

• 
  

  Are you a caster or a support? Do you see yourself mastering the path of Zenurik or only bothering with a few perks?

  
  

   

  
  
  
• 
  

  Do you feel that Zenurik gives you the tool for ernergivore builds?

  
  

   

  
  
  
• 
  

  What is “Domination” to you in the context of Warframe? (Ignoring the current balance where 90% of the starchart is insignificant to Tenno)

  
  

   

  
  
  
• 
  

  Does the Track of the Vessel project a fantasy of carrying the Void with you?

  
  

   

  
  
  
• 
  

  Do you like the fantasy of being a Poltergeist from the Void (a Voidtergeist) with the Track of the Presence?

  
  

   

  
  
  
• 
  

  Does the harmful Track of the Wound inspire sights of impending disasters?

  
  

   

  
  
  
• 
  

  Would you rather see more Simis options or Passives?

  
  

   

  
  
  
• 
  

  Would you rather see a flat cooldown that is reasonably short or you would rather have a long cooldowns that can be very short on the condition you get a mastery perk?

  
  
  

 

 

Design comment,

 

For the most part, the Path of Zenurik is fairly straightforward. Removing Energy Flow felt tantamount to blasphemy for the Path. We found the Umbra Lance perk to be interesting enough to warrant reworking it into a new concept: Void Storms, that is the signature passive of a Wound. We felt the Rift Sight deserved a second chance, with added utility for the middle of combat. We believe some people might appreciate a free sonar that doubles as soft Crowd Control.

 

We decided to dump Systemic Override, on the account that Zenurik isn't about restraint and technique, it is about raw output of power. Some might think the “Subjugate” Simis is a replacement, however it wasn't the intention.

 

Time Stream and Temporal Storm were removed and reworked into another perk for Madurai.

 

We did not consider the remaining perks to be worth salvaging or discussing.

 

 

As a closing note,

 

Thank you for reading, and see you again for the “I am Fire” rework of Madurai. We hope you enjoyed this enough to look forward to the next thread.

[weirdee]

Fun stuff. This reads like a M:tG thread, where abilities are not just a stable of one trick ponies, but are expanded upon and takes advantage of their inherent properties, instead of trying to enforce a specific style of gameplay by a static set of situations that developers could come with, which is the very essence of the strength of Warframe's playstyle and development. When players are left to their own devices as to how to approach a situation instead of being handfed prepackaged and often flawed in practice solutions, Tenno find their most enjoyable and memorable moments from white knuckling success or finding joy from situations that nobody could possibly come up with just by writing them.

 

I feel like the concepts seen here don't tread into warframe utility territory too hard, but actually supplements those who would "double down" within a specialization and allows them to stack both focus and other similar but different effects, while also allowing other types of warframes to "branch out" (sorry for the pun) and use entirely different types of powers in tandem to create strategies that weren't possible before.

 

I am currently partial to the concept of having cooldown gradually getting lower as more focus points are invested into that focus school no matter how they're invested (instead of making a separate "mastery" perk at the end of the skill tree), but reduction caps when the equivalent of one track's focus points is invested into that school. active perks would still increase the cooldown. I'm still on the fence about the perk point pool, considering that there are downsides to activating more perks already.

 

Side note: I like how the Wound tree forays into existential horror based powers. (it seems less "disaster" and more "writhing corruption") Sadly, the T rating means we can't really make the visuals appropriate enough for the full implications of what is happening.

Edited February 2, 2016 by weirdee

[Kinperor]

Fun stuff. This reads like a M:tG thread, where abilities are not just a stable of one trick ponies, but are expanded upon and takes advantage of their inherent properties, instead of trying to enforce a specific style of gameplay by a static set of situations that developers could come with, which is the very essence of the strength of Warframe's playstyle and development. When players are left to their own devices as to how to approach a situation instead of being handfed prepackaged and often flawed in practice solutions, Tenno find their most enjoyable and memorable moments from white knuckling success or finding joy from situations that nobody could possibly come up with just by writing them.

 

I feel like the concepts seen here don't tread into warframe utility territory too hard, but actually supplements those who would "double down" within a specialization and allows them to stack both focus and other similar but different effects, while also allowing other types of warframes to "branch out" (sorry for the pun) and use entirely different types of powers in tandem to create strategies that weren't possible before.

 

Indeed, I find it better in general when the players are given sandbox liberty to tackle the challenges ahead. It's even better if Focus allow players to either play on the strength of the Warframe or give it new abilities entirely.

 

I think it's great when there is one ability who seems very average but that the player can make great use out of it.

 

 

I am currently partial to the concept of having cooldown gradually getting lower as more focus points are invested into that focus school no matter how they're invested (instead of making a separate "mastery" perk at the end of the skill tree), but reduction caps when the equivalent of one track's focus points is invested into that school. active perks would still increase the cooldown. I'm still on the fence about the perk point pool, considering that there are downsides to activating more perks already.

 

Cooldowns really had my hamsters spinning for quite a while. I feel that if the Focus actives are to have scaling abilities, they shouldn't be spamable. In theory, it's great for letting the player get stronger, but I didn't want the game to revolve around spaming ONE ability all the time as much as possible. Focus is a complement, not a replacement.

 

I had some wacky early drafts that toyed with cooldowns. For instance the Simis originally accelerated the cooldown of the main active, which is to say you could spam Simis and use your main active earlier. I thought the idea sounded great and revolutionary until I realized this turned Focus into a Skinner's Box with Simis as a button and main actives as reward. I thought about doing the opposite (Simis slowing the cooldown of the main active), but didn't include it ultimately because I felt it was punishing the player for using the Simis by making it even harder to use the main ability (which is the opposite of my objective here).

 

I thought about making Madurai refresh it's cooldown with every kills using Phoenix Gaze too. While I can't really test it, I came to the conclusion that players would just spend as much time as possible in Phoenix Gaze. Don't get me wrong, some people would enjoy that, but again, Focus should be a complement to the playstyle, not a replacement.

 

 

Side note: I like how the Wound tree forays into existential horror based powers. (it seems less "disaster" and more "writhing corruption") Sadly, the T rating means we can't really make the visuals appropriate enough for the full implications of what is happening.

 

That's one way to see it.

 

With that said, any analogy with wounds, lacerations or whatever are purely metaphoric; The Void isn't literally bleeding, it was just an analogy. At worse the abilities get re-branded with "cleaner" names. Not that I have high hopes of seeing this in game.

 

In my view, the Vessel is based on controlled Fusion and make stable energy, whereas the Wound is based on Fission and make explosive energy, like an atomic bomb.

[TheVeiledScion]

Absolutely love the idea! I saw the Madurai first some of my general comments are there.

Regarding Zenurik, I love the focus on the Void. I think a critical part will be the visuals. Zenurik abilities need to look dark, perhaps inverted, something that signifies the twisted and unnatural nature of the Void. I was also thinking, you gave Madurai a lot of fire proc perks; what if Zenurik had some anti-gravity effects. Just to demonstrate how the Void upends the laws of physics.

[Kinperor]

Absolutely love the idea! I saw the Madurai first some of my general comments are there.

Regarding Zenurik, I love the focus on the Void. I think a critical part will be the visuals. Zenurik abilities need to look dark, perhaps inverted, something that signifies the twisted and unnatural nature of the Void. I was also thinking, you gave Madurai a lot of fire proc perks; what if Zenurik had some anti-gravity effects. Just to demonstrate how the Void upends the laws of physics.

 

Regarding the visual: The background of the Void that we can see from the Liset doesn't give me the impression we should be going for dark inverted colors. All things being possible, it seems to me it should be an otherworldly palette of white and cyan.

 

Regarding the anti-gravity effect: The idea appeal to me a great deal, but I feel I would need to make perks from the ground up to properly incorporate it, which wasn't an effort I considered initially.

[Anamedez]

Want to partake into the thread but not sure what to address? Consider the following:

 

Sure! I LOVE Questionnaires, so here's my answers. :3

 

• Are you a caster or a support? Do you see yourself mastering the path of Zenurik or only bothering with a few perks?

  • I usually have a Caster or Support playstyle. I tend to active the most abilities when I'm in a squad and Sniping is my favorite method of dispatching the enemy. I tend to focus heavy targets to provide my group with some support. I mostly play Solo though.

 

• Do you feel that Zenurik gives you the tool for ernergivore builds

  • Heck yeah! I'm able to cast abilities all day. I can't imagine what it be like to have all of this AND the Primed Energy Mods.

 

• What is “Domination” to you in the context of Warframe? (Ignoring the current balance where 90% of the starchart is insignificant to Tenno)

  • I chose Zenurik because it fit me best. When I'm playing a game that is VS an enemy I tend to try for everything. By that, in the context of this game, I mean that even though I play Extermination almost exclusively I'll go through and loot every container because I'm not there just to wipe out all of the enemy; I there to take everything they have. I do the same thing in games like Dynasty Warriors, League of Legends, and Heroes of the Storm. I don't just kill the entire enemy team, I take every tower, every base, every resource, EVERYTHING I can before I destroy their main camp and win the game. Often this can lead to my own downfall though because while I'm trying for everything, the enemy could just ambush me easily since they know where I'm heading and take my own main camp while I'm respawning. That's how I like to play though. " Give them NOTHING! But take from them EVERYTHING! " - King Leonidas, 300

 

• Does the Track of the Vessel project a fantasy of carrying the Void with you?

  • Yep, looks good. It's too small for me to read all of it though and I couldn't make it bigger.

 

• Do you like the fantasy of being a Poltergeist from the Void (a Voidtergeist) with the Track of the Presence?

  • Poltergeist is a tad dark for me personally. To me it's more like becoming the Wind which is what I consider Zenurik's Element to be. Since it's "The Void", empty space and you seemingly pull more energy out of thin air. Basically if you game me the option of a Monk or a Demonslayer, I would choose a Monk because that's my cup o' tea. I see Zenurik as having a range to it. Whether you want to be a Ghost of the Void: Making Resources vanish and scaring enemies to death. Or you want to be a Monk of the Wind: Choking out all the enemies supply lines and crushing beneath the very space they occupy. Regardless we are all Zenurik.

 

• Does the harmful Track of the Wound inspire sights of impending disasters?

  • I like all of your concepts above. I think it really expands upon Zenurik nicely. They're also vastly different and I really like that variety and freedom.

 

• Would you rather see more Simis options or Passives?

  • Well I can only carry one Simis at a time, so I'd go for more Passives.

 

• Would you rather see a flat cooldown that is reasonably short or you would rather have a long cooldowns that can be very short on the condition you get a mastery perk?

  • I like not having to worry about cooldowns regardless, so I go more for the reasonably short. The latter is definitely a viable option though.

*Also I saw above that you'd considered Madurai Wind initially. To me Void is Wind, but I suppose that's like saying Light is Darkness. What I mean is that the two coincide with one another like a Yin Yang. You don't have Light without Darkness, otherwise everything would be blindingly white. To me Void and Wind work in the same way. There is Wind and there is absense of Wind, regardless both still occupy space, are invisible, and have the potential to be incredibly destructive. Just my take on it. Wonderful work Kinperor! I've been looking for a post like this for a while, I wish it was getting more attention. Especially from fellow Zens.

Sorry about all of the typos btw. I'd fix them, but I'd have to type over the entire thing word for word.

-----Nuno

"Let the Fires Burn, Let the Waters Heal;Let the Rock Stand Strong and the Wood Grow and Flourish. For We are Zenurik, Space Itself; and We Encompass All!"

Edited February 26, 2016 by Nunokage

[Kinperor]

47 minutes ago, Nunokage said:

Sure! I LOVE Questionnaires, so here's my answers. :3

*Also I saw above that you'd considered Madurai Wind initially. To me Void is Wind, but I suppose that's like saying Light is Darkness. What I mean is that the two coincide with one another like a Yin Yang. You don't have Light without Darkness, otherwise everything would be blindingly white. To me Void and Wind work in the same way. There is Wind and there is absense of Wind, regardless both still occupy space, are invisible, and have the potential to be incredibly destructive. Just my take on it. Wonderful work Kinperor! I've been looking for a post like this for a while, I wish it was getting more attention. Especially from fellow Zens.

Sorry about all of the typos btw. I'd fix them, but I'd have to type over the entire thing word for word.

-----Nuno

"Let the Fires Burn, Let the Waters Heal;Let the Rock Stand Strong and the Wood Grow and Flourish. For We are Zenurik, Space Itself; and We Encompass All!"

 

Ah thank you for the feedback.

I see your point with wind, but as you noticed Madurai was interpreted as being in that element already. Beyond that, I really wanted to use the Void as an element, because it actually is a fairly important concept in eastern philosophy.