Dread Vs Paris Prime [Crit Chance Suggestion]

[--DSP--]

<p>Paris Prime is like the puncture version of Dread.<br />
Not only when Slash is considered a better damage type, Paris Prime also get a lower critical chance.<br />
Why not just make Paris Prime's crit chance the exact same as Dread as in 50% so that it can finally become a solid alternate version of Dread?

As PUR3K1LL3R here proved the point.
Now I'm getting back to the topic.
As you can see here...

 

Dread vs Paris Prime with the exact same build.

 

Dread:
http://i.imgur.com/twtBioK.png

 

Paris Prime:
http://i.imgur.com/7t4kMW8.png

 

As you can see, Dread is better here even against full armor Corrupted Heavy Gunner.

But then, you may argue that HEY!!! that's not fair! elemental bla bla bla status bla bla bla! Do the physical +120% mod!<br />
ok sure.
Here's Dread with the Fanged.
http://i.imgur.com/6ay0ncF.png

And here's Paris Prime with the Piercing Caliber
http://i.imgur.com/6mi33yG.png

You see it now? Dread does better on almost all situations.

Not to mention, Not only does Dread suppresses Paris Prime on armored target, Dread also has 2 times more chance to get red crit. I think it will be better for the balance all 3 bows if Paris Prime gets 50% Critical chance just like Dread.

Edited February 12, 2016 by qwaszx12

[Eggzodiya]

As I recall, they're pretty much neck and neck right now in terms of power with Dread scratching ahead but barely. It really depends on the situation and the faction, tbh. I'm not sure they were meant to be alternate versions of each other, though.

[(PSN)DBR87]

Because it already is a solid alternative to Dread... Paris Prime inches out ahead when your targets have armor or shielding because of IPS damage bonuses/resistances. Only time Dread really makes Paris Prime obsolete is when you completely remove armor and you are hitting pure flesh. They can both easily red crit, with Dread red critting 1 out of 4 shots with point strike where paris prime is more like 1 out of 6. Really that 5% difference isn't that huge and you guys have those new crit mods that make it even more trivial.

[ThePredicament]

Dread has a higher red crit rate and slash is better against flesh, which is usually what you SHOULD be dealing with when fully prepped but if not the puncture might be more beneficial during a strip of scaling. Red crit slash procs do do a lot of damage though.

[ClinkzEastwood]

With Argon Scope Dread is much better than Paris Prime now.

[--DSP--]

Dread has a higher red crit rate and slash is better against flesh, which is usually what you SHOULD be dealing with when fully prepped but if not the puncture might be more beneficial during a strip of scaling. Red crit slash procs do do a lot of damage though.

Which is completely irrelevant to what I just said. What I meant was, they should've made the crit chance of Paris Prime THE SAME as Dread so that there is finally some reason for us to play Paris Prime again. 

[--DSP--]

Because it already is a solid alternative to Dread... Paris Prime inches out ahead when your targets have armor or shielding because of IPS damage bonuses/resistances. Only time Dread really makes Paris Prime obsolete is when you completely remove armor and you are hitting pure flesh. They can both easily red crit, with Dread red critting 1 out of 4 shots with point strike where paris prime is more like 1 out of 6. Really that 5% difference isn't that huge and you guys have those new crit mods that make it even more trivial.

Actually, even vs Armor Target, Dread actually does BETTER than Paris. the 5% differences is a huge thing, plus is it really hard for them to add 5% more critical chance?

[YasaiTsume]

Dread does Slash
Paris Prime does Puncture

HOWEVER : Dread has 50% Crit chance, as opposed to Paris Prime's 45%

Dread's primarily Slash damage makes it particularly effective against Fleshy targets, as opposed to Paris Prime's Puncture that does well against Armored targets.

Dread's Critical Red Crit status would actually win Paris Prime in terms of damage if the enemy's armor was stripped.

However, standard teams do not usually run Armor shredding Setups so I would say it is safer for Paris Prime to be used over Dread, cos if Dread was used instead, it wouldn't last as long as Paris in the long run. 

 

 

They are very balanced versions of each other tbh, balancing one for critical focus, the other for armor shredding. 

I see no need to make Paris Prime overall stronger than Dread because in terms of situation, Paris Prime usually always gets picked over Dread, unless the user has a preference for Red Crits.

(Let's be honest, a Bow vs Infested is pretty bad even if yu try and line up shots) 

[--DSP--]

Dread does Slash

Paris Prime does Puncture

HOWEVER : Dread has 50% Crit chance, as opposed to Paris Prime's 45%

Dread's primarily Slash damage makes it particularly effective against Fleshy targets, as opposed to Paris Prime's Puncture that does well against Armored targets.

Dread's Critical Red Crit status would actually win Paris Prime in terms of damage if the enemy's armor was stripped.

However, standard teams do not usually run Armor shredding Setups so I would say it is safer for Paris Prime to be used over Dread, cos if Dread was used instead, it wouldn't last as long as Paris in the long run. 

 

 

They are very balanced versions of each other tbh, balancing one for critical focus, the other for armor shredding. 

I see no need to make Paris Prime overall stronger than Dread because in terms of situation, Paris Prime usually always gets picked over Dread, unless the user has a preference for Red Crits.

(Let's be honest, a Bow vs Infested is pretty bad even if yu try and line up shots) 

If you actually test Dread in simulacrum, it really does better than Paris Prime vs Corrupted Heavy Gunner. I really don't see why 50% for both of them will hurt. Plus, why do ppl always think Slash is only good for CP and infested :|

[(PSN)DBR87]

If you actually test Dread in simulacrum, it really does better than Paris Prime vs Corrupted Heavy Gunner. I really don't see why 50% for both of them will hurt. Plus, why do ppl always think Slash is only good for CP and infested :|

 

Because slash has -15% on Grineer Ferrit Armor and -50% on Grineer Alloy Armor. Puncture is +50 on Ferrit and +15% on Alloy. Puncture is also +25% on Infested Sinew where Slash has no modifiers. If Dread and Paris Prime Both Yellow Crit on a Corrupted Heavy Gunner's Ferrite Armor Puncture will get +50% more damage where Slash will get -50%. Dread does have the advantage of more consistent Red Crits.

 

Honestly, if Paris Prime got buffed to 50% more crit chance I would not care. In fact, I would be happy for it. Just right now, I don't see why it needs it...

 

EDIT: I did go into the Simulacrum like you said. Because my Dread has more forma than my P Prime I had to go with Split Chamber, Serration, Point Strike, Vital Sense, hell fire, Stormbringer, and Hammer Shot on both. Paris was hitting red crits at 20 thousand to the head while Dread was hitting for 17 thousand. But after the corrosive procs starting stacking Dread was hitting for 23 k, on top of the slash procs.

Edited February 6, 2016 by (PS4)DBR87

[--DSP--]

Because slash has -15% on Grineer Ferrit Armor and -50% on Grineer Alloy Armor. Puncture is +50 on Ferrit and +15% on Alloy. Puncture is also +25% on Infested Sinew where Slash has no modifiers. If Dread and Paris Prime Both Yellow Crit on a Corrupted Heavy Gunner's Ferrite Armor Puncture will get +50% more damage where Slash will get -50%. Dread does have the advantage of more consistent Red Crits.

 

Honestly, if Paris Prime got buffed to 50% more crit chance I would not care. In fact, I would be happy for it. Just right now, I don't see why it needs it...

 

EDIT: I did go into the Simulacrum like you said. Because my Dread has more forma than my P Prime I had to go with Split Chamber, Serration, Point Strike, Vital Sense, hell fire, Stormbringer, and Hammer Shot on both. Paris was hitting red crits at 20 thousand to the head while Dread was hitting for 17 thousand. But after the corrosive procs starting stacking Dread was hitting for 23 k, on top of the slash procs.

Did you just say Hammershot? I'm done talking. You also ignored the fact that Grineer got flesh.

Edited February 6, 2016 by qwaszx12

[(PSN)DBR87]

I don't use hammer shot on Dread normally, but since my Paris Prime has less forma than my Dread that was the only way I could test them with equal builds. It was either put hammer shot on both weapons are use both weapons with 7 mods. And I didn't ignore the fact Grineer have flesh, it's just +25% that slash does to flesh doesn't mean anything until that armor starts going away.

[--DSP--]

I don't use hammer shot on Dread normally, but since my Paris Prime has less forma than my Dread that was the only way I could test them with equal builds. It was either put hammer shot on both weapons are use both weapons with 7 mods. And I didn't ignore the fact Grineer have flesh, it's just +25% that slash does to flesh doesn't mean anything until that armor starts going away.

You do know that's not how flesh works right? Plus, either way. I tested them. Both 5 forma build.

When fighting a level 80 heavy gunner. It takes Dread 2-3 Headshots to kill. While it takes Paris Prime 3-5. 

[(PSN)DBR87]

You do know that's not how flesh works right? Plus, either way. I tested them. Both 5 forma build.

When fighting a level 80 heavy gunner. It takes Dread 2-3 Headshots to kill. While it takes Paris Prime 3-5. 

 

But you're not just hitting flesh. You're hitting flesh AFTER armor. Armor increases a targets effective health by applying level scaling damage resistance to attacks. At low levels Corrosive procs are not as effective as they are at higher levels because of how armor scales. The Slash portion of your damage will be reduced by Ferrite's/Alloy's resistance of -15%/-50% before Flesh's weakness of +25% is applied. Puncture does not have that problem. Puncture does not suffer damage reduction against cloned flesh and does +50%/+15% to Ferrite/Alloy armor. Slash damage doesn't just magically ignore armor because it does bonus damage to Flesh. At best, against Ferrite-Cloned Flesh Slash on it's with get +10% damage. At best against Alloy-Cloned Flesh slash with suffer -25% damage. Puncture hitting Ferrite-Cloned Flesh with still do +50% and Alloy-Cloned Flesh will still do +15%

 

And I was doing my test on level 100 heavy gunners. Dread didn't start to pull ahead of Paris Prime until a few shots in because that's when Corrosive procs started reducing the damage reduction to health armor causes and the slash procs started racking up large finisher ticks. Puncture has larger damage bonuses on a armor targets effective health until the enemies armor stat starts to drop. 

 

And like I said, if Paris Prime had a 50% multiplier, I would be happy for it. It's a great weapon regardless that is perfectly suited for high level enemies but even matching its crit chance with Dread is not going to put it equally on par with Dread if someone is running a optimal build. Paris Prime just focuses on the wrong type of damage. But it still a great weapon that doesn't need a buff.

Edited February 6, 2016 by (PS4)DBR87

[Chipputer]

It wouldn't hurt to give it that extra 5%, but it doesn't need it right now. The amount of talking down to people you're doing who are trying to tell you how damage types work is sickening. Your subjective testing, that doesn't have proof being shown to back it up, does not suddenly change the fact of how puncture works.

 

Dread will still pull ahead, yes, due to Corrosive procs and Corrosive Projection.

[-N7-Leonhart]

It wouldn't hurt to give it that extra 5%, but it doesn't need it right now. The amount of talking down to people you're doing who are trying to tell you how damage types work is sickening. Your subjective testing, that doesn't have proof being shown to back it up, does not suddenly change the fact of how puncture works.

 

Dread will still pull ahead, yes, due to Corrosive procs and Corrosive Projection.

 

Puncture works amazing against ferrite and somewhat less amazing against alloy. Against ferrite it deals +50% damage AND reduces -50% armor, while against alloy it deals +15% damage and reduces -15% armor.

 

Ofc, slash has much weaker performance against ferrite and negative damage against alloy and doesn't reduce any armor, so you could say it is much worse as a damage against anything that is not pure flesh. Yes, I know there are the procs, but they are not that often and they do their damage over 7 seconds, so what they add to the DPS may be in the 5-10% range at best.

Edited February 7, 2016 by -BM-StormVanguard

[Inmemoratus]

Did you just say Hammershot? I'm done talking. You also ignored the fact that Grineer got flesh.

 

I believe last I checked, Hammer Shot is part of the highest damage setup for these weapons.

[-N7-Leonhart]

I believe last I checked, Hammer Shot is part of the highest damage setup for these weapons.

 

You checked wrong. Do the math again, this time including an actual damage mod.

[Inmemoratus]

You checked wrong. Do the math again, this time including an actual damage mod.

 

Wait... do you use Heavy Caliber... on bows?

[ClinkzEastwood]

Wait... do you use Heavy Caliber... on bows?

Hammershot is even worse than elemental even in 3x elemental setup.

Status chance increase is rather useless on bows, which are suppossed to be one shot weapons.

Bladed rounds gives twice as much crit damage as Hammetshot anyway.

[Redhux]

Wait... do you use Heavy Caliber... on bows?

 

You can use Heavy Caliber but it will sacrifice the accuracy. It is not advised.

 

For the following examples i greatly suggest players to visit that page of the Wiki (Damage 2.0) explaining clearly the valor of the Elements/ Combos and the Physical Damages (IPS): http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Damage_2.0

 

P.S. : That page is valid until [DE] DEVs decide to change the Damage in general.

 

Dread (Radiation /or Corrosive /or Magnetic  + Slash): http://goo.gl/lQondI

 

Paris Prime (Viral + Puncture): http://goo.gl/XvN1Yy

 

 

Since the Dread is Slash DMG you just have to add the adequate elemental combo to be able to destroy both the Armor and the Health (Elemental Combo to destroy the armor and slash to destroy the health).

 

Since the Paris Prime is Puncture DMG you just have to add elements that will destroy the health (Viral = Ice+Poison /or Fire 90% + Event Fire 60%), the Puncture will deal with the Armor.

 

 

The elements/ combos/ physical damages have all a destined target and a designed usage. They're not all worth using on any factions.

 

 

To finish, i would just say that 5% more on the critical chance for the Paris Prime wouldn't hurt anything/ anyone. It is deserved.

 

 

Like all the crit. weapons should have at least 40% basic critical chance... And an adequate critical multiplier.

[-N7-Leonhart]

Wait... do you use Heavy Caliber... on bows?

 

To make myself clear, I don't use Heavy Caliber on anything that is called a Rifle. When I use those, I greatly prefer that all my shots are on target and that way I will have the highest damage done. If I want damage at the cost of spread I use the much more powerful shotguns.

Edited February 7, 2016 by -BM-StormVanguard

[(PSN)Smooth81Criminal]

I don't really see any need to buff the Paris as far as crit is concerned. I red crit with that weapon all the time and it's normally my main bow. (I only use bows). I would say that if anything on the Paris prime needs to be buffed, it should be the drop rate of the arrows in flight and the base puncture damage. I love the daikyu a lot but for a prime, one would think the puncture dmg wouldn't be so obsolete compared to a non prime weapon.

[(PSN)Smooth81Criminal]

You can use Heavy Caliber but it will sacrifice the accuracy. It is not advised.

For the following examples i greatly suggest players to visit that page of the Wiki (Damage 2.0) explaining clearly the valor of the Elements/ Combos and the Physical Damages (IPS): http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Damage_2.0

P.S. : That page is valid until [DE] DEVs decide to change the Damage in general.

Dread (Radiation /or Corrosive /or Magnetic + Slash): http://goo.gl/lQondI

Paris Prime (Viral + Puncture): http://goo.gl/XvN1Yy

Since the Dread is Slash DMG you just have to add the adequate elemental combo to be able to destroy both the Armor and the Health (Elemental Combo to destroy the armor and slash to destroy the health).

Since the Paris Prime is Puncture DMG you just have to add elements that will destroy the health (Viral = Ice+Poison /or Fire 90% + Event Fire 60%), the Puncture will deal with the Armor.

The elements/ combos/ physical damages have all a destined target and a designed usage. They're not all worth using on any factions.

To finish, i would just say that 5% more on the critical chance for the Paris Prime wouldn't hurt anything/ anyone. It is deserved.

Like all the crit. weapons should have at least 40% basic critical chance... And an adequate critical multiplier.

I use heavy cal on every single one of my bows and I have no problems. Now I have heard from others that arrows in flight tend to go off in odd directions with that mod on, so I am in no way dicrediting what you're saying here. I have personally never had this issue and I main bows. This leads me to think it is more of a glitch with the mod over it being a function of it.

[(PSN)DBR87]

Just so we are clear, Hammer shot increases Status Chance AND CRIT DAMAGE and seeing how I am a console Tenno, I don't have Bladed Rounds yet. Before there was Bladed Rounds, Hammer Shot was not a bad mod to put on if you didn't want Heavy Caliber's split.